doubled posted:

WS lost me on the consecutive Napa cabs a couple of years ago.

And I'll add that if you taste the Lewis and Peter Michael next to say, MacDonald or Spottswoode, I'm pretty sure you'll rank the latter over the former.  I'll stop beating a dead horse.

I tend to agree with Bill.  For me, it's a harmless exercise of making guesses as to what the Spectator staff thinks is tasty/exciting/who knows?  I used to go out and try to buy 3 or 4 bottles of what I thought would win--not to re-sell or anything, just to drink.  I never got it right, but my worst case scenario was that I ended up with some pretty tasty bottles (like the 2010 St. Cosme Gigondas or the 2007 Flaccianello).  I even had some friends over to drink some of the different WOTY's that I happened to have (heck, I'm still sitting on a Clos Apalta, and a couple of the Shafer Relentless). I don't pay as much attention anymore--I blame my kids for sucking the life out of me-- but it certainly doesn't harm my enjoyment of the wines on the list.  

doubled posted:

Held up well to what?  You expect it to lose fruit after a couple of years?  

No I meant held up well to the ranking. Every bottle Ive had I thought was been exceptional. Ive had several a couple of which were shared with you in Tahoe.

I am a little baffled how WS picks top wines as if they know how the wines will taste in a decade.  Is WS proposing that the consumer purchase 2016 Ch Pichon Longueville Baron and consume it now?

To me, this wine is a cellar selection to be held, but so are all the young second growth Bordeaux.  To play devils advocate, I ask, “How does WS know 2016 Ch Pichon Longueville Baron wine will fair better than 2016 Ch Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande in a decade?  My suspicion is that both wines will be excellent in time.  Why is one on the top 10 list, and the other is not?

 

chinonrouge posted:

I am a little baffled how WS picks top wines as if they know how the wines will taste in a decade.  Is WS proposing that the consumer purchase 2016 Ch Pichon Longueville Baron and consume it now?

To me, this wine is a cellar selection to be held, but so are all the young second growth Bordeaux.  To play devils advocate, I ask, “How does WS know 2016 Ch Pichon Longueville Baron wine will fair better than 2016 Ch Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande in a decade?  My suspicion is that both wines will be excellent in time.  Why is one on the top 10 list, and the other is not?

 

Leaving aside the quality of the specific reviewers, they hopefully have enough experience with Bordeaux of all ages — and of following enough vintages throughout their development — that an educated guess can be made. Also, *sometimes* there is a brief window of top flight Bordeaux being very primary but also open-knit before it shuts down for over a decade.  This can give a reviewer a fair sense of the material. 

For me, I can almost guarantee you that I would prefer the Baron to the Lalande — but that’s because I have a significant taste-profile preference for the Baron.  The point is, while scores from vintage to vintage for a singular wine may be useful (this is a good vintage to buy Palmer, this is a bad vintage to buy Cos) these lists really aren’t meant to give much information to the already very educated wine drinkers, though it is conceivable — at least in theory — that they could help those with the funds to buy who are still in the infancy or adolescence of their fine wine experience.  

chinonrouge posted:

I am a little baffled how WS picks top wines as if they know how the wines will taste in a decade.  Is WS proposing that the consumer purchase 2016 Ch Pichon Longueville Baron and consume it now?

To me, this wine is a cellar selection to be held, but so are all the young second growth Bordeaux.  To play devils advocate, I ask, “How does WS know 2016 Ch Pichon Longueville Baron wine will fair better than 2016 Ch Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande in a decade?  My suspicion is that both wines will be excellent in time.  Why is one on the top 10 list, and the other is not?

 

If I remember how the process was described a few years ago, the WS Editors bring together a Top 20 that they've tasted in the previous year, re-taste and then debate them based on X factors.   

As you know, all these bottles were tasted blind initially and were assigned a rating.  I assume they get the top bottles rated with consideration to represent all if not most wine regions.   If the Pichon Baron was rated a 96 and the Lalande a 93 at the time the initial tasting was done, then you can see why one would be included in the Top 10 and not the other.  

I don't think they project what the wines will be in a decade.  Many of the 1st of the 2nd Growths will probably be shut down a decade after release!

Not that I don't think Beaucastel is top 10 worthy (heck my wife and I enjoy their stuff thoroughly) I definitely detect a bit of bromance between JM and Marc Perrin  

Personally I think as Chianti Classico representative for the top 10 San Giusto a Rentennano was a good choice. Their entire profile of wines are excellent IMO. No offense to the big families but nice to see a break from Antinori or Frescobaldi.

eltoro posted:

Not that I don't think Beaucastel is top 10 worthy (heck my wife and I enjoy their stuff thoroughly) I definitely detect a bit of bromance between JM and Marc Perrin  

Personally I think as Chianti Classico representative for the top 10 San Giusto a Rentennano was a good choice. Their entire profile of wines are excellent IMO. No offense to the big families but nice to see a break from Antinori or Frescobaldi.

My only problem with naming San Giusto a Rentennano is that it has long been my favorite producer from the Chianti region and I oppose anything that increases its price. 

mneeley490 posted:

Chateau Leoville Barton; wasn't this WOTY a just few years ago?

I don't think so.  I don't have access to all the past winners.  I had a list of past Bordeaux winners but lost it.  I don't remember seeing Leoville Barton as one of them.

Only two German wines (and both relative no-names) and one Champagne? How could something like 2008 Cristal not make it in the top 100 wines? In fact in the last 12 years there have only been two champagnes of note, 1996 Krug (#1 in 2007) and 2008 Dom (#5 last year). 

Headshaking.

robsutherland posted:

Only two German wines (and both relative no-names) and one Champagne? How could something like 2008 Cristal not make it in the top 100 wines? In fact in the last 12 years there have only been two champagnes of note, 1996 Krug (#1 in 2007) and 2008 Dom (#5 last year). 

Headshaking.

Indeed.  The other thing that is odd to me is the heavy preponderance of Italian wines (17 or 18, many of them Chianti).  And only 2 or 3 Spanish wines. [I counted quickly, so numbers might be a bit off]

irwin posted:

The title of this thread is WS Top 10.   should be "100".  I don't know how to change it.

 

I was intending it to be about the top 10, not the other 90.  But, it has morphed to be more inclusive.  I can change it, but don't really care to!

haggis posted:

#s 9 and 10 "revealed" today.  Does anyone really care about this anymore?

I can’t say I’m all gung-ho, but it adds something for me.  I’ve been floating 2 mortgages for a bit now, so my wine budget went from diminutive (for this crowd) to pretty much Costco only (not so bad as I bought 4 x 2015 Monsanto CCR for $19.99 per a couple of weeks ago; my local Costco has sold out of the 2015 Rocca di Macie for the same price which has been the best 2015 CCR I’ve had so far, the Volpaia which i’ve yet to uncork).

So i’m not too proud to say I’m more of a 11-100 value shopper, and picked up the marchesi di Barolo barbera (tasty and memorable of the barberas I drank when I lived in Italy), the A-Z chard (meh), and the Charles Smith aka wine spectator darling, CS, sitting on the kitchen counter.  There is a Bandol rose’ in somewhere in the new fridge...

doubled posted:
mneeley490 posted:

Chateau Leoville Barton; wasn't this WOTY a just few years ago?

I don't think so.  I don't have access to all the past winners.  I had a list of past Bordeaux winners but lost it.  I don't remember seeing Leoville Barton as one of them.

My mistake. The Château Léoville Las Cases has been in the top 10 a couple times in the past few years.

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