Wine list benchmark bottles

Absolutely agree on Kim Crawford SB, it's everywhere and my wife drinks it all the time. For a red it's Justin. Same reason. At least in Chicagoland it seems to be on every restaurant's list.

I usually whip out my phone and use wine-searcher to find out the going rates for a couple of wines under and over $75.

Prior to this technical advancement, I like to use New World wines as the benchmark. If I think the wine list is poorly priced and have to have wine for dinner, I'll pick a not-so popular region or varietal with the assumption that these wines have the least markup.

quote:

Originally posted by indybob:
When confronted with an unknown wine list, with many unfamiliar wines, what are the common wines you look to as indicators of overall wine list pricing?

Wines like Kim Crawford SB, Caymus SS, Mondavi Cab. Napa, Veuve Cliquot NV.

It depends on the region of course, but for your benchmark wines, what are the over/unders that tell you the wine list is priced fairly or poorly?

Thanks!

Very hard to calibrate these days as you will find the mark-ups very widely within any given list and very often the less expensive the wine the higher the mark-up. I scan a list - generally $10 Spanish wines are selling for $40 (they get them even cheaper), I then look at the champagnes and then for other familiar bottles

Ch Ste Michelle
Greg Norman
Rodney Strong
Opus One
Kendall Jackson
Pinot Grig - Margerita [spell]

Also use iPhone and WS for wine ratings and prices.

quote:

If the wine list is less than 2x retail for the higher end wines, then I consider it a good list

+ 1

Thanks for the posts, but my question (if it's answerable) really has to do with what prices you look for with your benchmark wines? Such as $40 for KCSB, $75 for Veuve Cliquot NV, or $225 for Mondavi Reserve cab (recent vintage). Basically a quickie gauge you use without having to fumble around with the smart phone and do some quick math.

I look at a percentage markup over what the wine would normally retail for. If a "benchmark" wine is at, or under, 200% markup, then I consider the winelist overall priced affordably. Wines that I look at in consideration:

Silver Oak Alex
Jordan Cab
Rombauer Chardonnay

Caymus Conundrum - < $20 retail
Caymus Cab - < $65 retail
Caymus Cab SS - around $100 retail

If the wine list is less than 2x retail for the higher end wines, then I consider it a good list. Obviously, there are other variables to consider, and using the popular regions as a benchmark may not always indicate the pricing fairness of the wine list.

I like to head straight to Petrus because it's exciting to find out what the expensive ones are and you never know, it might be bargain priced. After that, I look by the regions for wines I am familiar with and like and compare the cost point. A lot of restaurants might have a good priced American list and over priced Bordeaux or maybe a fair priced Bordeaux and over priced Italian. So I might be looking at Match vs. Leoville vs. Tignaello. Then I look for pricing of something cheap like Ravenswood Zin. But pricing isn't always a big point, interesting selections are. I'd rather buy at 200% or less of retail in the end.

quote:

Originally posted by PURPLE:
I like to head straight to Petrus

We totally need to hang out more often!

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Tex Landreth:
I look at a percentage markup over what the wine would normally retail for. If a "benchmark" wine is at, or under, 200% markup, then I consider the winelist overall priced affordably.

Agree with this philosophy. As far as benchmarking specific wines, I look for my favorite wines from France, Italy, Germany and Spain as that is my best frame of reference. I don’t think I’ve ordered a CA wine off a wine list in years.

Working in a retail wine shop, I am too set in my ways as far as purchasing wine in restaurants. I may be in denial, but I don't think a tightwad, and I know alcohol is how most restaurants make their money with 200-300% markups. I hate seeing Kim Crawford for $13 a glass when I can buy a bottle at pretty much the same price...

Alan Scott NZ Sav Blanc..always excellent. Screw cap so never corked and at $30/bottle in restaurants (30-38) and $14 in stores, it is a bargain

Depends pretty much on which region you know best (producers + vintage quality)
Bordeaux certainly is a good indicator, with varying quality and vintages. Eg. : 35€ is ok for an average Cru Bourgeois, 50€ for most 5th or 4th cru, 70 for a 3rd cru. ... and so on. Add 30-50% for a particularly good vintage. ...

I do not mean this reply to sound obnoxious, BUT... I have far too much knowledge of wines, their qualities, and their prices, to have any list of standard bearers that I use.

Furthermore, many winelists are not evenly marked up. An upscale Italian joint might only charge $120 for a Bea Arboreas so that people might be willing to try, but could be charging considerably more for a Piccolomini Brunello because everyone knows it already.

quote:

Originally posted by winetarelli:
I do not mean this reply to sound obnoxious, BUT... I have far too much knowledge of wines, their qualities, and their prices, to have any list of standard bearers that I use.

Furthermore, many winelists are not evenly marked up. An upscale Italian joint might only charge $120 for a Bea Arboreas so that people might be willing to try, but could be charging considerably more for a Piccolomini Brunello because everyone knows it already.

Wow. Must be nice.

Winetarelli makes a good point in the most obnoxious way possible (despite intent, no offense). I was looking at a wine list tonight of a restaurant I like. 75-100 bottles, I was familiar with the price of four, tasted one, 3 vintages ago. The price of Jean Luc Columbo Violette Syrah was fair, but definately marked up at $32. The price of the Quinto Do Crasto (not the reserve) was mildly insulting at $42 and Neil Ellis "Scincerely" with a good rep at $8 but marked up to $38 made me think "F you", I am leaving. I am too cheap to buy wine at restaurants. Thank goodness I like beer again. I also like corkage under $20. Mark-ups are inconsistent! Look for something you are interested in at a price you find agreeable. Or Beer.

Three words:

WineSearcher Pro, Droid.

quote:

Originally posted by Gigond Ass:
Three words:

WineSearcher Pro, Droid.

+1

Best $40 a year you'll ever spend.

PH

quote:

Originally posted by PurpleHaze:

quote:

Originally posted by Gigond Ass:
Three words:

WineSearcher Pro, Droid.

+1

Best $40 a year you'll ever spend.

PH

+2

Never a second thought