Wine Flipping Poll

A recent spirited discussion has made me ponder this subject anew. An esteemed senior member; cdr raised this matter back in 2008, but I thought it might be worth a re-visit given the passage of time.

First, let me posit a definition of flipping for the purposes of this poll. If you have an issue with the definition....well, it is my poll after all.... Wink

Flipping: Purchasing wine(s) with the specific intent of re-selling said wine(s) for profit with no intention of drinking it at the time of purchase.

PH
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
I have not, although I don't have any problem with the concept. I have traded wines after sale. I've never sold a bottle of my wine at any price, fwiw.

PH
Same here. I don't have a problem with it, but I buy wines to drink not sell. I almost sold off some 08 Lafites that I bought for $200 but it didn't work out. Would have just turned around and bought a different wine so it wasn't a flip for pure profit.
quote:
Originally posted by gigmoney:
I have not flipped for profit. I'm in it for the long haul. Just having storage issues. Sometimes after cellaring a few years, a wine may head in a different direction from my palate, or vice versa. Trading wines has been a great option.


That's called cellar management, gig.... Cool

PH
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
quote:
Originally posted by gigmoney:
I have not flipped for profit. I'm in it for the long haul. Just having storage issues. Sometimes after cellaring a few years, a wine may head in a different direction from my palate, or vice versa. Trading wines has been a great option.


That's called cellar management, gig.... Cool

PH


More like a need to open many bottles this winter, or fear my worst enemy...
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Offsite Storage Ack
quote:
Originally posted by GlennK:
Same here. I don't have a problem with it, but I buy wines to drink not sell. I almost sold off some 08 Lafites that I bought for $200 but it didn't work out. Would have just turned around and bought a different wine so it wasn't a flip for pure profit.


You should have. Devilish
We hammered a six pack for $14,000 back in June of 2011, but that boat is long gone.....
While I've sold wine, many at a profit, I've never purchased anything with the intent of selling. It's all been about right-sizing my cellar and shifts in preferences.

The 291, keep in mind that while Paul has changed his handle, he does still get referred to as tlily from time to time (and remains tlily in my mind).
When I bought a friends Cayuse allocation, I had to justify to my wife how much they would go for on the secondary market. That was two years ago, but somehow I've never gotten around to selling any of them.
Oh, well.

That said, a few years ago I did buy a bottle of '02 Quilceda Creek at a good price. I had every intention of drinking it. Then the first 100 point score came out three months later, and the value tripled overnight. How could I not sell it? I did use the funds to purchase more wine, however.
I was expecting to consume the '02 first growths that I'd acquired when they were initially released. But the numbers were too insane during the "Bordeaux bubble" 12-18 months ago for me to ignore. An 800% return (I lucked out and sold near the peak of the market) on '02 Lafite meant I could buy plenty of bargains in other varietals...... Smile
I have always bought to experiance and enjoy.

The one exception was a .750 of 1988 Mouton. Paid approx $95c in /92 and returned it (leaking cork) to the local monopoly 6 years later for $500c.

Yes, it felt good at the time because: a) I wasn't sure they would even take it back and b) I would've been happy with a refund of the original purchase price.

Started regretting it on the walk back to my car and still wish that I had just pulled the offending cork and given it a go!
Never bought wine for flipping. However i might sell parts of my whisky collection one day, or altenatively the heirs will be happy selling those on ebay. I can't drink it all by myself for sure. The price for some limited release stuff grows rapidly, eg some Highland-Park Capella once bought for 50£ now sells at a few 100s.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by Jon B:
Of course, who hasn't.


It appears 75% have not. (see poll)


It was an assertion much like Jon B's that caused me to post this poll. When I thought of the people I knew who were into wine, I couldn't think of anyone who had.

quote:
Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:

I am not a fan of it to be honest.


This surprises me. Why? Are there other commodities that you'd frown on being flipped?

PH
Never done it, partly because I,ve never bought anything flippable. But I think I'd probably do it in cases where the price is riduculously good if you buy a significant quantity and that qauntity exceeds what I want to consume or can afford. I don't think I would ever buy a bottle exclusively to flip it.
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:

quote:
Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:

I am not a fan of it to be honest.


This surprises me. Why? Are there other commodities that you'd frown on being flipped?

PH

Unlike art, cars, etc., wine is just not something I think of people as "collecting." I think of wine as something that people appreciate or enjoy. To get on a list simply so that you can turn around and sell the bottles puts you in the same category as those that wait in line just to buy an Apple product to turn around and sell. The joy I personally get from sharing a bottle of something nice or "coveted" vastly exceeds any sort of joy I would get from making some money on it. That is why I have never signed up, and never will sign up for KB, Marcassin, and some of the other "cultish" wines... I don't like to drink it, and I am not gonna sign up for it just to flip it.

It is just my opinion... Everyone is free to do as they wish.
quote:
Originally posted by Winetech:
I voted no, as I've never flipped a wine. While I'll never say never, I don't have any intention of flipping any either. I've got a small cellar (~400 bottles), so I buy what I enjoy drinking and sharing.

Only on this forum does 400 bottles constitute a "small cellar." Wink
quote:
Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:
quote:
Originally posted by Winetech:
I voted no, as I've never flipped a wine. While I'll never say never, I don't have any intention of flipping any either. I've got a small cellar (~400 bottles), so I buy what I enjoy drinking and sharing.

Only on this forum does 400 bottles constitute a "small cellar." Wink
LOL. You're right, I should have said "comparatively speaking..." Razz
quote:
To get on a list simply so that you can turn around and sell the bottles puts you in the same category as those that wait in line just to buy an Apple product to turn around and sell.

Actually the Apple thing is simply flat out dumb. There's not going to be a shortage, so there's no logical reason to pay extra for something you'll be able to buy. So you get it a week or two before anyone else. That's worth something? After the 2 week period, or whatever it is, your product is worth less than ever - it's a used product and it doesn't matter that you had it a couple weeks before someone else.

But because there are such suckers, I think it's an opportunity. The way Apple gets their stock over $1000 a share is by making some limited runs of their popular items. For example, instead of the silver casing on their Macs iPads or whatever, they could so a very very very subtle metallic shade, say lavender, blue, green, orange, etc., and only make a few thousand in that color.

Limited releases.

That would artificially create scarcity and the boneheads who stand in line waiting for the new Apple products would then be able to justify doing so.

And of course, the coloring should be all Apple, in other words, so faint as to be nearly impossible to notice unless you set two devices next to each other. That keeps their whole minimalist aesthetic going and ensures that the scheme appeals to those who are deeply addicted to the Kool Aid.

Flipping wine is completely fine by me. It's what anybody in the business does - you buy a few pallets of something, sell it for more than you paid (hopefully) and buy some more to repeat the activity.

If you buy wine for $100 and someone is willing to pay you $200, why not? He's happy, you're happy, everybody is happy. I think it's entirely possible to enjoy it in exactly the same way one enjoys anything else one collects. That's the whole point of those cellars with custom redwood racking and mood lights isn't it? To say "look what I have!"

And frankly, flipping provides a service. It can be like insurance.

Maybe somebody didn't buy a wine because it wasn't reviewed. But you bought it for $100. Then it gets a high score and the person who didn't buy it needs it. How else will he get it? He wasn't going to buy it if it didn't have a high score because then he'd be stuck with something low-scoring. So he waits until he's certain and pays a little extra. But now he has no risk - he knows he'll like the wine. It's a bit like insurance - you pay a little more for certainty in life.

While I don't object at all, I've never sold any wine as one private individual to another. I keep planning to dump some stuff that I just don't like all that much, but somehow never get around to it.
I guess I think of it this way. Now mind you, I have never done it, but let's just say you got in on the ground level of a wine that was well within your price range. The wine grew becoming very popular, garnering high praise and scores. As time goes by, the prices creep up and up. It gets to the point that you can't afford to buy it anymore. It was people like you that helped make this wine a success, buying in the early years and being faithful year in and year out. Now you are faced with a decision, buy the three bottle allocation (which has slowly been cut back due to the wines success) with the intent of selling one or two of them to cut the "per bottle cost" such that it remains at a price point that you can still afford, or drop off the list essentially being forced off from a wine that you followed. Should a winery really be that upset that a long time customer has to jump thru hoops now just to enjoy one or two bottles of their wine?

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