quote:
Originally posted by Dom'n'Vin'sDad:
quote:
Originally posted by Peter "Vine Master":

I probably will eventually but this is the first time I've done anything like this I like hearing everyone's opinion.

But I have written enough that I can easily be figured out; in one of my responses I did outline my history & accolades.


Peter, please just tell me and don't make me do any type of research. I am on my summer vacation for cryin' out loud!!!! Big Grin

Teachers! Razz Wink

I'm thinking that our friend here is from Lolonis Winery.
Peter-

If your point is that old vines are valuable and deserve to be preserved, then I agree with you 100%.

If your point is to justify the winery to which you sell or your own winery charging $100+ for your old vine Zin, there are two answers:
1. If it's not your winery, you don't get to make that decision. Once your contract is up, if you want to ask for $10,000/T+, that's certainly your prerogative.
2. If it is your winery, go for it. The market will decide.

If you'd like subsidies, property preserves, etc, to protect old vines, then my personal opinion is, hell no. Not with my tax dollars. If vineyard owners want to top-work to PN or CS, or tear out their vines and plant Gravensteins again, or even sell to someone developing a "Big Lebowski" theme park, in my opinion, if it's zoned correctly, that's their right. You'll only dilute everyone else's value by dictating that the land must be kept as loss-guaranteeing Zinfandel vines. Unfortunately, that's not the way things should work here in the US.

In essence, unfortunately in this case, the market decides. I wholeheartedly wish those with 100-yr old Zin vines the best of luck. I hope to hell that they can be kept alive due to such a fabulous legacy. I love tasting the wines made from them. If not, though, you won't see me calling my Congresswoman asking her to handcuff a vineyard owner that wants to rip his or her vineyard out.
Our most expensive vineyard source is the 90-year-old Benito Dusi zinfandel ranch. And it is a pleasure to have that relationship. We feel the fruit is worth every penny and actually look forward to delivering our annual check each January.

'Drazi, I wouldn't be so quick to speak for 'most wine lovers'. Consumer polls conducted by Full Glass Research have shown that most wine lovers speak with forked tongue when it comes to zinfandel. Most wine lovers claim they would not choose zinfandel with a fine meal, but they also state that it is versatile with food, and woefully under-represented in restaurants, both of which are true. Consumers have also demonstrated, through online tasting notes and comments, that they frequently perceive classically-styled zinfandels as having more longevity than many expensive modern-styled pinots.

Speaking as a zinfandel/Rhone producer, I can assure you that traditional wine media is missing the curve when it comes to zinfandel.

From our winery blog, reporting on the consumer polls mentioned above:
quote:
But what is really telling is that in the winegeek crowd (cab freaks, burgheads, etc.) 63% "would like to see more and better Zinfandels available by the glass" in restaurants and in wine bars. (Among ZAP members 89% agreed, but that’s sort of a given . . . ) In addition, 66% of ZAP members and 52% of core wine drinkers agreed that "restaurants rarely have a good Zinfandel selection."


Fortunately for producers, there is a groundswell of respect and excitement among the food and wine circles for zinfandel. The problem is that zinfandel producers have to go directly to them, because retail/restaurant purchasing is so heavily influenced by the TWM.

Ironically, we are seeing the loss of some old vine zin vineyards just when dedicated zinfandel producers are showing more interest than ever before in working with dryfarmed (old and new) vineyards, old vines, and field blends. It used to be that these vineyards didn't command a lot of respect and were considered something of a winemaker's plaything. They had quality fruit (which tickled the wm) but with flavor parameters (brambly, tannic, extremely spicy) outside the critical and popular taste market. Critical tastes are still the same, but the popular market is now driving demand for zinfandel, and these consumers do not want simple, juicy pizza wine. They want single vineyard bottlings and old vine productions.

At his personal request, we are making a barrel of the 2007 old vine zin for a FoodTV host, to be bottled under his own label and sold in Bobby Flay's restaurants. As a 2500 case producer, we didn't go looking for this exposure, this guy just loves the old vine and he's passionate about food. He's poured our ovz on the set of Iron Chef America, and for Mario Batali. (Batali later wrote he had another bottle at home with roasted squab and butternut enchilada.) Cool

Hang in there, old vines. You're not done yet.
quote:
Originally posted by winerugger:
Peter-

If your point is that old vines are valuable and deserve to be preserved, then I agree with you 100%.

If your point is to justify the winery to which you sell or your own winery charging $100+ for your old vine Zin, there are two answers:
1. If it's not your winery, you don't get to make that decision. Once your contract is up, if you want to ask for $10,000/T+, that's certainly your prerogative.
2. If it is your winery, go for it. The market will decide.

If you'd like subsidies, property preserves, etc, to protect old vines, then my personal opinion is, hell no. Not with my tax dollars. If vineyard owners want to top-work to PN or CS, or tear out their vines and plant Gravensteins again, or even sell to someone developing a "Big Lebowski" theme park, in my opinion, if it's zoned correctly, that's their right. You'll only dilute everyone else's value by dictating that the land must be kept as loss-guaranteeing Zinfandel vines. Unfortunately, that's not the way things should work here in the US.

In essence, unfortunately in this case, the market decides. I wholeheartedly wish those with 100-yr old Zin vines the best of luck. I hope to hell that they can be kept alive due to such a fabulous legacy. I love tasting the wines made from them. If not, though, you won't see me calling my Congresswoman asking her to handcuff a vineyard owner that wants to rip his or her vineyard out.



On the Government thing. I believe with you absolutly no government $$$ or dictation!!!!

I am in-fact up for renegotiation.
quote:
Originally posted by GreenDrazi:
Peter,
While I have enjoyed reading your posts filled with deep felt passion and commitment (and we are all deeply indebted to you and other winemakers), these expressions and actions (and very old vines) can not overcome the fact that most wine lovers have found Cab, Pinot Noir and Syrah to be, as a whole, better varietals than Zinfandel.

This doesn’t mean that Zinfandel isn’t thoroughly enjoyed and I hope you continue pursuing this passion.


Much of those choices aer simply because the top couple of Wine Magazines Pushe them. By the way in California at least far more Merlot is sold than Syrah.
quote:
Originally posted by SD-Wineaux:
quote:
Originally posted by Dom'n'Vin'sDad:
quote:
Originally posted by Peter "Vine Master":

I probably will eventually but this is the first time I've done anything like this I like hearing everyone's opinion.

But I have written enough that I can easily be figured out; in one of my responses I did outline my history & accolades.


Peter, please just tell me and don't make me do any type of research. I am on my summer vacation for cryin' out loud!!!! Big Grin

Teachers! Razz Wink

I'm thinking that our friend here is from Lolonis Winery.


Sorry No Razz
quote:
Originally posted by winerugger:
Peter-

If your point is that old vines are valuable and deserve to be preserved, then I agree with you 100%.

If your point is to justify the winery to which you sell or your own winery charging $100+ for your old vine Zin, there are two answers:
1. If it's not your winery, you don't get to make that decision. Once your contract is up, if you want to ask for $10,000/T+, that's certainly your prerogative.
2. If it is your winery, go for it. The market will decide.

If you'd like subsidies, property preserves, etc, to protect old vines, then my personal opinion is, hell no. Not with my tax dollars. If vineyard owners want to top-work to PN or CS, or tear out their vines and plant Gravensteins again, or even sell to someone developing a "Big Lebowski" theme park, in my opinion, if it's zoned correctly, that's their right. You'll only dilute everyone else's value by dictating that the land must be kept as loss-guaranteeing Zinfandel vines. Unfortunately, that's not the way things should work here in the US.

In essence, unfortunately in this case, the market decides. I wholeheartedly wish those with 100-yr old Zin vines the best of luck. I hope to hell that they can be kept alive due to such a fabulous legacy. I love tasting the wines made from them. If not, though, you won't see me calling my Congresswoman asking her to handcuff a vineyard owner that wants to rip his or her vineyard out.


It sounds like you have the energy I had when I was younger: In the mid 1990s I was trying & sometimes succeeding in selling my Zinfandel wine to restaurants in San Francisco who if they had a Zinfandel on the list it was White Zinfandel! I am glad their are people like you to carry the torch after I'm 6 foot under.
quote:
Originally posted by Mary Baker:
Our most expensive vineyard source is the 90-year-old Benito Dusi zinfandel ranch. And it is a pleasure to have that relationship. We feel the fruit is worth every penny and actually look forward to delivering our annual check each January.

'Drazi, I wouldn't be so quick to speak for 'most wine lovers'. Consumer polls conducted by Full Glass Research have shown that most wine lovers speak with forked tongue when it comes to zinfandel. Most wine lovers claim they would not choose zinfandel with a fine meal, but they also state that it is versatile with food, and woefully under-represented in restaurants, both of which are true. Consumers have also demonstrated, through online tasting notes and comments, that they frequently perceive classically-styled zinfandels as having more longevity than many expensive modern-styled pinots.

Speaking as a zinfandel/Rhone producer, I can assure you that traditional wine media is missing the curve when it comes to zinfandel.

From our winery blog, reporting on the consumer polls mentioned above:
quote:
But what is really telling is that in the winegeek crowd (cab freaks, burgheads, etc.) 63% "would like to see more and better Zinfandels available by the glass" in restaurants and in wine bars. (Among ZAP members 89% agreed, but that’s sort of a given . . . ) In addition, 66% of ZAP members and 52% of core wine drinkers agreed that "restaurants rarely have a good Zinfandel selection."


Fortunately for producers, there is a groundswell of respect and excitement among the food and wine circles for zinfandel. The problem is that zinfandel producers have to go directly to them, because retail/restaurant purchasing is so heavily influenced by the TWM.

Ironically, we are seeing the loss of some old vine zin vineyards just when dedicated zinfandel producers are showing more interest than ever before in working with dryfarmed (old and new) vineyards, old vines, and field blends. It used to be that these vineyards didn't command a lot of respect and were considered something of a winemaker's plaything. They had quality fruit (which tickled the wm) but with flavor parameters (brambly, tannic, extremely spicy) outside the critical and popular taste market. Critical tastes are still the same, but the popular market is now driving demand for zinfandel, and these consumers do not want simple, juicy pizza wine. They want single vineyard bottlings and old vine productions.

At his personal request, we are making a barrel of the 2007 old vine zin for a FoodTV host, to be bottled under his own label and sold in Bobby Flay's restaurants. As a 2500 case producer, we didn't go looking for this exposure, this guy just loves the old vine and he's passionate about food. He's poured our ovz on the set of Iron Chef America, and for Mario Batali. (Batali later wrote he had another bottle at home with roasted squab and butternut enchilada.) Cool

Hang in there, old vines. You're not done yet.



It sounds like you have the energy I had when I was younger: In the mid 1990s I was trying & sometimes succeeding in selling my Zinfandel wine to restaurants in San Francisco who if they had a Zinfandel on the list it was White Zinfandel! I am glad their are people like you to carry the torch after I'm 6 foot under.
quote:
Originally posted by Peter "Vine Master":
Sorry No Razz


C'mon Peter! Out with it! It will probably inspire many of us to go out and find a bottle....
Peter, if I were you, I would keep my identity secret.

I know for a fact that I and probably others on these boards have enjoyed wines from your vineyard from a very prominent, high end winery in the RRV. They make quite a few Zinfandels from that same area, but yours is exquisite, in my book. Even in the challenging vintages, I think the wine made from your grapes suffers least in quality.

What are your plans for your vineyard? Any repalnting, new varietals/clones, etc.?
*sigh*

All we want is some good old vine zinfandel.

If you won't reveal Mr. Soapbox's identity, can one of you make an alternate suggestion we can try to buy?? I'm dying for an old vine zin after reading this thread.

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