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I have two English Setters: an 11 year old male who sleeps most of the day--only getting up to eat, and a two year old female who is so fast we call her "the flash." She spends her time stalking and chasing deer out of the woods and likes to eat lizards and frogs. The boy is an orange belton and the girl is a blue belton.
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A 20 month old Pit Bull named Leonidas. We got him at 6 weeks old, so he's the biggest baby in the world...he definitely does not live up to the reputation of the Spartan warrior king I named him after lol. He more reminds me of Simba as a cub from the Lion King.

I gotta say, Pit's have such a ludicrist reputation. Yeah, Leo's literally a pure 75 pound piece of muscle, so you could see how he's a dog that you wouldn't want to tangle with. But the only way he would ever hurt any living thing would be by licking them/it too hard.
My soft-hearted daughter brought home a puppy about 1 1/2 years ago, that she took from some sketchy kids who had a few of them in a cardboard box. It was about 4-5 weeks old; we thought it was a golden lab at first. Then later the ears rotated toward the front, then popped straight up a week after that. A doggy DNA test revealed that she is Chow, Terrier, Saluki, and Sharpei.
She just looks like a yellow Dingo.
quote:
Originally posted by indybob:
quote:
Originally posted by Gigond Ass:
Clicky............. Roll Eyes


Nice anecdote. Roll Eyes

Here's another one, which doesn't prove anything either: Black Lab puppy kills baby


Of course it doesn't prove anything, but posting something that doesn't prove anything proves something. Sure occasionally, a black lab or any other species might turn violent, but the aggressive nature and unpredictability of pit bulls are facts. I question the intelligence of anyone who owns a pit bull (or a rotweiler). There are a myriad alternatives that don't carry the serious risk. What species do they use as junkyard dogs? Black labs? Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by indybob:
quote:
Originally posted by Gigond Ass:
Clicky............. Roll Eyes


Nice anecdote. Roll Eyes

Here's another one, which doesn't prove anything either: Black Lab puppy kills baby
A specious argument at best. I've seen two pit bull attacks. One of them on a human being, on on a leashed dog.

When a pit bull does what any dog can do, show aggression and bite, the damages can be severe. In the case of the dog attack, the pit bull took multiple blows to the head with a tire iron and before it let go. Fortunately, the dog on human attack happened at a construction site and several workers with steel toed boots were able to defend the person with them.

By the way, the person was permanently scarred and the leashed spaniel died.

The reason people shouldn't own pit bulls is the same reason we don't give handguns to monkeys.
Ok you two, I have no disagreement with you two that pit bulls can be horribly vicious dogs. They're strong, they bite really f'ing hard, are sometimes raised by criminals for dog fighting, and they get loose on occasion. During the course of my job, I've been around the worst ones a number of times. They're terrifying. A local writer came up with this a few years ago, in a review of a Japanese restaurant: "their wasabi clears your sinuses faster than a pitbull clears a playground."

The reputation is there and, well, sometimes deserved (taking into account the multitude of fighting dogs).

All that said, no responsible parent leaves their dog unattended around any infant/small child.

But, I see no reasonable evidence that a properly raised, trained and cared for (this is key) pitbull isn't as great a dog as any other breed. Do you?
quote:
Originally posted by indybob:
Ok you two, I have no disagreement with you two that pit bulls can be horribly vicious dogs. They're strong, they bite really f'ing hard, are sometimes raised by criminals for dog fighting, and they get loose on occasion. During the course of my job, I've been around the worst ones a number of times. They're terrifying. A local writer came up with this a few years ago, in a review of a Japanese restaurant: "their wasabi clears your sinuses faster than a pitbull clears a playground."

The reputation is there and, well, sometimes deserved (taking into account the multitude of fighting dogs).

All that said, no responsible parent leaves their dog unattended around any infant/small child.

But, I see no reasonable evidence that a properly raised, trained and cared for (this is key) pitbull isn't as great a dog as any other breed. Do you?
Yes. Unless you can watch the dog every moment of every day. That's impossible. There is no good reason to own a pit bull.

Owning an animal that has that much potential for damage is simply irresponsible. Check the stories on attacks. How many of them say, he was such a good dog and never did anything like this before? A lot of them.

Here's my compromise. You own a pit bull and it attacks another animal, one year in prison. You own a pit bull and it attacks a human, ten years in prison.

By the way, do you support people owning lions and tigers and keeping them as pets in your residential neighborhood?
@jburman, I'll defer to people on the boards who actually own the dogs and may want to defend their actions, and have more invested than I do. Hell, I've had cats my whole life, not dogs. Have a good afternoon, sincerely. Smile

quote:
Originally posted by Gigond Ass:
By the way, do you support people owning lions and tigers and keeping them as pets in your residential neighborhood?


Of course not, why would I?
Yes. But your argument is identical to the misguided people that keep these dangerous animals as pets.

Unfortunately, too many pit bulls are not owned by responsible people.

I see a bunch of gang bangers that own them as extensions of their penis.

They don't own them because they make wonderful pets. The own them because they have a reputation (well deserved) for violence.
They own them because physiologically, they make amazingly efficient fighting dogs, then they get "trained" to be even more efficient. Having a vicious looking and acting dog is, as you put it, an extension of their junk. Agreed there.

But, if you have a bulletless gun, a hammer makes a better weapon. Put a bullet in, it becomes deadly in the wrong hands.

If you want to condemn an entire group of dogs based on what scum in our society choose to do with them, that's your right I guess.
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
quote:
Originally posted by Gigond Ass:
They don't own them because they make wonderful pets.


Perfectly stated! That sentence tells you the truth about pit bull owners better than anything else that was said. I wish I had said it.


Frankly, coming back here and reading all of the crap that you and GA have posted has really given me some insight on how narrow minded some people are about pit bulls. Have either of you even interacted with a properly raised pit from birth? I've had several dogs in my life, as has my family and friends. Frankly, Leo, the pit I have now is the most loving animal I've ever owned. We rescued him at 6 weeks old when he was abandoned with his brothers and sisters in a cardboard box. We were the first people to give him solid food, and he has slept in our bed every night since we first got him. We've raised him with tons of love, spoiled him to death, and given him a terrific life. He's a sweetheart...we have large gatherings at our house regularly, and every one loves him.

You mention children. Our neighbors across the street have a boy and a girl, both under the age of 3. We bring Leo over there all the time to play with the kids while we hang out with their parents. The kids absolutely love him. Leo hangs out with other dogs and cats often, he has never shown aggression towards any living thing...it's always the opposite, he absolutely loves every person and every animal he interacts with. Hell, my mom has a 12 year old cockatiel that often comes out of his cage and wanders around on the floor of her house. Leo will go up to him, give him a sniff type hello, and then wander off - our Pit won't even bother a little bird for crying out loud.

I'm not gonna say there aren't horrible things that some Pit Bulls have done, but that doesn't condemn the entire breed. You raise a dog from birth to be violent and aggressive, that's what's gonna happen...whether it's a Pit or a Poodle. It's just that Pit's are the pound for pound strongest dogs out there, and when owners raise them badly, they can be a lot more lethal than other breeds. And unfortunately, a lot of classless people own Pits and raise them that way. When raised right, they can be just as loving as any other breed, and I know that very personally. Frankly, I'm not going to get into it anymore from here with you two, as you both obviously don't know sh*t when it comes to Pit's as an entire breed in general.
quote:
Originally posted by AZwineRyan:
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
quote:
Originally posted by Gigond Ass:
They don't own them because they make wonderful pets.


Perfectly stated! That sentence tells you the truth about pit bull owners better than anything else that was said. I wish I had said it.


Frankly, coming back here and reading all of the crap that you and GA have posted has really given me some insight on how narrow minded some people are about pit bulls. Have either of you even interacted with a properly raised pit from birth? I've had several dogs in my life, as has my family and friends. Frankly, Leo, the pit I have now is the most loving animal I've ever owned. We rescued him at 6 weeks old when he was abandoned with his brothers and sisters in a cardboard box. We were the first people to give him solid food, and he has slept in our bed every night since we first got him. We've raised him with tons of love, spoiled him to death, and given him a terrific life. He's a sweetheart...we have large gatherings at our house regularly, and every one loves him.

You mention children. Our neighbors across the street have a boy and a girl, both under the age of 3. We bring Leo over there all the time to play with the kids while we hang out with their parents. The kids absolutely love him. Leo hangs out with other dogs and cats often, he has never shown aggression towards any living thing...it's always the opposite, he absolutely loves every person and every animal he interacts with. Hell, my mom has a 12 year old cockatiel that often comes out of his cage and wanders around on the floor of her house. Leo will go up to him, give him a sniff type hello, and then wander off - our Pit won't even bother a little bird for crying out loud.

I'm not gonna say there aren't horrible things that some Pit Bulls have done, but that doesn't condemn the entire breed. You raise a dog from birth to be violent and aggressive, that's what's gonna happen...whether it's a Pit or a Poodle. It's just that Pit's are the pound for pound strongest dogs out there, and when owners raise them badly, they can be a lot more lethal than other breeds. And unfortunately, a lot of classless people own Pits and raise them that way. When raised right, they can be just as loving as any other breed, and I know that very personally. Frankly, I'm not going to get into it anymore from here with you two, as you both obviously don't know sh*t when it comes to Pit's as an entire breed in general.


One of my best friends has one he raised from a pup with total love and affection. Seba was always totally loving with other animals and children. Then one night at another friends party she went crazy and attacked a six month old very friendly puppy. It was horrible to see the pit go straigt for the neck of the pup. The owner of the pit (6'4/240) quickly jumped into action and began puching the dog as hard as he could. It took several minutes before the pit let go. Thank god the puppy lived. Knowing that dog for a long time before this happened I had changed my mind about the breed. After it happened not so much. I now believe they can snap at any time.
quote:
Originally posted by AZwineRyan:
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
quote:
Originally posted by Gigond Ass:
They don't own them because they make wonderful pets.


Perfectly stated! That sentence tells you the truth about pit bull owners better than anything else that was said. I wish I had said it.


Frankly, coming back here and reading all of the crap that you and GA have posted has really given me some insight on how narrow minded some people are about pit bulls. Have either of you even interacted with a properly raised pit from birth? I've had several dogs in my life, as has my family and friends. Frankly, Leo, the pit I have now is the most loving animal I've ever owned. We rescued him at 6 weeks old when he was abandoned with his brothers and sisters in a cardboard box. We were the first people to give him solid food, and he has slept in our bed every night since we first got him. We've raised him with tons of love, spoiled him to death, and given him a terrific life. He's a sweetheart...we have large gatherings at our house regularly, and every one loves him.

You mention children. Our neighbors across the street have a boy and a girl, both under the age of 3. We bring Leo over there all the time to play with the kids while we hang out with their parents. The kids absolutely love him. Leo hangs out with other dogs and cats often, he has never shown aggression towards any living thing...it's always the opposite, he absolutely loves every person and every animal he interacts with. Hell, my mom has a 12 year old cockatiel that often comes out of his cage and wanders around on the floor of her house. Leo will go up to him, give him a sniff type hello, and then wander off - our Pit won't even bother a little bird for crying out loud.

I'm not gonna say there aren't horrible things that some Pit Bulls have done, but that doesn't condemn the entire breed. You raise a dog from birth to be violent and aggressive, that's what's gonna happen...whether it's a Pit or a Poodle. It's just that Pit's are the pound for pound strongest dogs out there, and when owners raise them badly, they can be a lot more lethal than other breeds. And unfortunately, a lot of classless people own Pits and raise them that way. When raised right, they can be just as loving as any other breed, and I know that very personally. Frankly, I'm not going to get into it anymore from here with you two, as you both obviously don't know sh*t when it comes to Pit's as an entire breed in general.
I told you that I personally witnessed two different pit bulls attack people and animals.

The guy with the tire iron was me.

You better hope you're right. Too many others haven't been.
We have 2 dogs, both male:
1. KONA - Great Pyrenees, 125#. Typical Pyr, totally independent, loves everything except thunderstorms and fireworks. Lieks to hang out when it's -20F outside...

2. Ripley - Leonberger, 150#. Rescued him when he was 4 from a garage. If you let him near water, be prepared to go in after him to get him out! Amazing swimmers.

The FedEx guy hates delivering to our house. He's afraid of dogs... Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
So you own a pit bull and bring it over to play with your neighbors' toddlers. You've told us all we need to know about you (and your neighbors).


Ofcourse, because every Pit Bull is going to maul little children right, Board-O? There's surely no loving and gentle Pit Bulls in existence huh, Board-O? In your all-knowing experience with thousands of Pit's over the years, you have justly come to the scientific conclusion that all Pit's are mindless killers that will at any instant attack animals, people and children for no given reason, right? You're such a ridiculous piece of work.

Board-O, you're a self-righteous f*cking moron. I'd love to tell you that personally the next time you're in AZ, or I'm in NY.
quote:
Originally posted by Bigfoot003:
The FedEx guy hates delivering to our house. He's afraid of dogs... Big Grin


Our old Fed-ex driver would bring dog biscuits with every delivery. She would even leave one for Duke if there was nobody home. Basically trained him to go ape shit any time there was a delivery truck in the neighborhood. It can get awfully noisy around Christmas time.
quote:
Originally posted by AZwineRyan:
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
So you own a pit bull and bring it over to play with your neighbors' toddlers. You've told us all we need to know about you (and your neighbors).


Ofcourse, because every Pit Bull is going to maul little children right, Board-O?

Oversimplification is a tool of a tool. I never said every one would, but they have a far greater potential than any other breed.

There's surely no loving and gentle Pit Bulls in existence huh, Board-O?

Oversimplification is a tool of a tool. I'm sure there are some, but they have a greater potential for sudden lethal violence than any other breed.

In your all-knowing experience with thousands of Pit's over the years, you have justly come to the scientific conclusion that all Pit's are mindless killers that will at any instant attack animals, people and children for no given reason, right?

Oversimplification is a tool of a tool. Now you're manufacturing "facts."

You're such a ridiculous piece of work.

Oversimplification is a tool of a tool. If being ridiculous is realizing the danger inherent in the breed, I plead guilty. To deny it is stupidity.

Board-O, you're a self-righteous f*cking moron. I'd love to tell you that personally the next time you're in AZ, or I'm in NY.

Resorting to obscenity is a tool of a tool. You see the anger in your response? (We all do.) I'm guessing you're part pit bull. I know I wouldn't you or your viscious animal near my children. Why don't you resume bragging about your entry level Lexus? You got less upset about that.
The problem is when people generalize, and apply a couple of personal anecdotes to an entire class of people/animals/things. Many of the world's problems have sprung from such thinking, as we all know. Fox's story about the puppy mauling pit bull is as relevant as AZwineRyan's histdory with his dog's.

The problem is that guys like GA and BO easily apply Fox's story to their own canine ethos, while completely discounting AZWineRyan's history with his dog as irrelevant. I hope I'm never that close minded a person. Somehow, I doubt I'll have to worry about that.
quote:
Originally posted by indybob:
The problem is when people generalize, and apply a couple of personal anecdotes to an entire class of people/animals/things. Many of the world's problems have sprung from such thinking, as we all know. Fox's story about the puppy mauling pit bull is as relevant as AZwineRyan's histdory with his dog's.

The problem is that guys like GA and BO easily apply Fox's story to their own canine ethos, while completely discounting AZWineRyan's history with his dog as irrelevant. I hope I'm never that close minded a person. Somehow, I doubt I'll have to worry about that.
The problem with your premise, is that I've witnessed these type of dogs commit attacks twice. Any dog can be aggressive, it's true. I'm pretty sure I can stop any aggressive cocker spaniel.

When you hit a dog in the face 7-8 times with an iron bar, and it doesn't let go of the creature it's mauling, it tends to change your perspective. It's pretty scaring knowing that the animal mauling your neighbors dog seems impervious to pain, and frankly could turn on you and maul you in an instant. If I'd thought about it, I would have gone inside, gotten my .357 magnum and shot it. That's what I would do next time after going through that event.

Now if your dog decides to attack someone, or something, I'd prefer to have a fighting chance at stopping it. Even good dogs bite if they're accidentally injured. You know, stepped on. They, like all creatures have a fight or flight response. The potential for injury from a fight response from dogs bred to be efficient at killing and maiming is simply too great.

Frankly, I wouldn't recommend letting toddlers play with any large breed dog, pit bull or otherwise. The risks are just too great.

I guess I just have a policy of not living with an apex predator in my home, other than me.
Board-O, my wife and I are very close with our dog, and care for him deeply (as many dog owner's do). I'm angry? Ofcourse, why wouldn't I be? The problem here is that you are generalizing an entire breed of dog, and while doing so, insulting my dog - who you know nothing about but what I've said about him in this thread. How would you feel if I for no good reason began to belittle and run down your children? I'm sure you'd be pretty dang angry too. Would I then try to belittle you for defending your children? I think not, I'd have no right. I realize that's comparing children to a pet dog, but I'm sure you can see my point.
quote:
Originally posted by Gigond Ass:
I guess I just have a policy of not living with an apex predator in my home, other than me.


That's fair enough. Even AZ knows that there is that there's a very tiny chance his dog will go nuts, same with any properly raised dog. Hell, some well-raised people go nuts.

My wife's dog (25# Spitz mix) has a rap sheet with a local police department for biting a kid running past the house about ten years ago. If it were a breed like a Presa Canario (like a pitbull on steroids), the little nip on the kid's heel would have been magnified many times.

Personally, I think it's great when someone like AZ chooses to give a dog a great life. Caring for animals is a very noble act, and I can't say I'd turn down a similar opportunity at some point in my life.

But, if some would say I'm a risk taker, so be it.
quote:
Originally posted by AZwineRyan:
Board-O, my wife and I are very close with our dog, and care for him deeply (as many dog owner's do).

I don't doubt that.

I'm angry? Ofcourse, why wouldn't I be? The problem here is that you are generalizing an entire breed of dog, and while doing so, insulting my dog - who you know nothing about but what I've said about him in this thread.

Yes, I'm generalizing an entire breed of dog. I said they're more, dangerous, unpredictable, and lethal than other breeds. I'm sure you're dog seems wonderful. I'm also sure it has a far greater potential of a vicious attack than the aforementioned cocker spaniel, and said attack would be far more vicious.

How would you feel if I for no good reason began to belittle and run down your children? I'm sure you'd be pretty dang angry too.

No, I wouldn't. You're welcome to say anything about my family or me that you want. I don't get angry here. I do get amusement froim the attempts.

Would I then try to belittle you for defending your children?

I don't really care what you say. Haven't I made that abundantly clear by now? Why would I care about what a person who takes his pit bull to play with babies has to say?
quote:
Originally posted by Red guy in a blue state:
quote:
Originally posted by Bigfoot003:
The FedEx guy hates delivering to our house. He's afraid of dogs... Big Grin


Our old Fed-ex driver would bring dog biscuits with every delivery. She would even leave one for Duke if there was nobody home. Basically trained him to go ape shit any time there was a delivery truck in the neighborhood. It can get awfully noisy around Christmas time.


Nice Red Guy! Let's see if we can get this thread out of the verbal octagon it's become. Red Face

My neighborhood gas station, when I lived in Oregon, would keep dog treats for the dogs when we stopped there for gas. Just passing a gas station was cause for giant slobbers all over the back windows.
i got nuttin' then. Eek

except that i do recall as a kid, german shepherds were child eaters. then the doberman pinscher became son of satan for awhile. the pit bull now reigns king of evil. i fear for you future dachshund owners, be afraid. vewy vewy afwaid...

quote:
Originally posted by Gigond Ass:
quote:
Originally posted by TBird:
i can. those bible thumpers that ring my doorbell on a sunday morning, wanting to discuss my salvation. go get 'em, tiny! Cool
Ok. Two good reasons then. Cool
Fox's story illustates the point I was trying to make. Sometimes Pit Bulls, more than any other breed, just see red and attack. There is no amount of loving, secure upbring that can stop that. That is what they are breed for. Of course raising them to be $hitheads exacerbates the inherent qualities but loving them doesnt make those same qualities go away.

Here is another anecdote. My sisters room mate had a pit. My sister had a 14 yo toy poodle who was blind. One day the pit attacked my sisters poodle. Thank god my sister was home and was able to kick the pit off her dog.

These stop being anecdotes and start becoming trends when enough people have them.

If someone wants to own one thats a personal choice and this is America but I wouldnt let your dog around my kid.
quote:
Originally posted by indybob:
Any Schipperke owners aboard? I've only met one, at a party about fifteen years ago, and it was the coolest little dog. Just loved that thing.
Yes. I dated a girl that had one. Meanest little shit on the planet. LOL.

It would bite off anyone's face that got near her. No Bob, not just mine.

I was never that worried, because I could punt it across the yard if needed. It was kind of annoying to have it snarl behind the door when I was walking to the john.

Good watch dog though.
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
Fox's story illustates the point I was trying to make. Sometimes Pit Bulls, more than any other breed, just see red and attack. There is no amount of loving, secure upbring that can stop that. That is what they are breed for. Of course raising them to be $hitheads exacerbates the inherent qualities but loving them doesnt make those same qualities go away.


I'm sure all rational people realize that. That's why rational people don't own pit bulls.
Some good points brought up here re: pitbulls.
Now, I have had dogs and other animals all my life. Very fond of dogs, even though as a young paperboy, I was attacked twice on my route by a Great Dane & a Norwegian Elkhound. I don't think pitbulls were as popular at the time, circa 1973. (Another paperboy, who was a good friend of mine, almost literaly lost his nuts when he was attacked by a bull mastif. The dog's mouth was so big, the bite mark to his groin actually encircled his junk. Red Face Of course, things like this never made the news back then, and lawsuits were almost unheard of.)

But I think any responsible pit owner has to agree that even if all the anecdotal evidence is wrong; even if pits attack no more often than any other breed, the severity of the attacks are almost always much, much worse. That's why, overall, they're labeled as a dangerous breed.
Almost every breed was bred for a specific purpose. It's hard-wired into their DNA. It would be like trying to get a Pointer not to point, or a Retriever not to retrieve.
No matter how much you love your pit, no amount of "nurture over nature" is going to change that fighting instinct. They're always the greatest dog in the world, until that moment when instinct finally kicks in, and they just snap.

In this state: RCW 16.08.100 (3)
"The owner of any dog that aggressively attacks and causes severe injury or
death of any human, whether or not the dog has previously been declared potentially
dangerous or dangerous, shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a class C felony punishable
in accordance with RCW 9A.20.021."
RCW 9A.20.021 --"(c) For a class C felony, by confinement in a state correctional institution for five years, or by a fine in an amount fixed by the court of ten thousand dollars, or by both such confinement and fine."
Last edited by mneeley490
i have a 3 acre dog park within 1/2 mile of my house. Between my wife and I we are there 5-7 days a week in nicer weather. Every single dog on dog fight I have ever witnessed first hand in th park has aways involved at least one of the more aggressive breeds (pit bull, papillon, rottweilers, cocker spaniels, etc). In the same fashion every human on human fight at dog park had at least one human owning one of the above mentioned breeds. I believe certain breeds are predisposed to violence, aggression, attacking, etc. Whenever you have to say "a properly trained pit" or a well behaved rottweiler" is a indicator to me that you are fully aware that the breed is aggressive/problematic. My therapy dog has been attacked twice in her life, both times by pit bulls, both times in dog park.
I agree that someone who spends the time, effort and money to properly train a pitbull reduces the pits chance of attacking. However take a lab, never train it and mistreat it and it still wont become aggressive. I question the owners of aggressive breeds as to their intentions.
Here's a quote from a 2009 study that might be of interest in the ongoing vicious dog debate: In any event, there is no scientific evidence that one kind of a dog is more likely to bite or injure a human being than another kind of dog. Clicky. NCRC

If a dog bite happens, and it's described as a "pitbull," the chances of it being reported on in the media are magnified, even if the injuries sustained are equal. Sometimes pitbull stories are newsworthy. Locally, we had a pair of them get shot by state troopers recently, and IMO, it was worth reporting, as cops had to discharge their weapons.

Still, take equal dog attacks on the same day, one is from a husky, the other is from a Pitbull, guess which one leads on the nightly news? Heck, I work for the media, and believe that most (but not all) media are biased when it comes to over-reporting pitbull attacks and under-reporting non-pitbull dog attacks. Think all these news reports shape public opinion? You bet.

Great point TBird about the doberman and german shepherd thing. Those were gnarly, vicious dogs when I was a kid, never to be trusted, tear your face off kind of dogs. . .


Haven't heard anything bad about them in years. . .
Last edited by indybob
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
Anyone who thinks pit bulls are no more dangerous than a lab is a fool.


Able to deliver more damage than most other breeds, of course! A pit is a large, muscular dog, there's no debate about that. Intrinsically more likely to attack than many other breeds if raised in kind homes with owners who love their dogs and train them properly? Show me evidence to the contrary. Calling a good dog owner a fool for owning a properly trained pit bull is ridiculous, IMO. Again, show us evidence that properly trained and cared for pitbulls, raised from puppies, are more dangerous and likely to attack than other dog breeds. . .otherwise, take your anecdotes and biases somewhere else.

Also, wasn't it you who cast a shadow on the lab, pardon me, black lab:
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
What species [sic] do they use as junkyard dogs? Black labs?
quote:
Originally posted by indybob:

quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
What species [sic] do they use as junkyard dogs? Black labs?


What's the "[sic]" for? Did I make a mistake in my syntax or spelling?

2 requests:

1. Buy a pit bull

2. Put me on ignore for real this time, not like when you lied about it before. It must be clear to you I have no respect for you, your intelligence, honesty, or wine knowledge.
Eyes on the prize guys. While you're busy googling away, a repeat of my question, just so you're on point, and don't resort to your predictable tactics of obfuscation with Michael Vick stories and such: "Again, show us evidence that properly trained and cared for pitbulls, raised from puppies, are more dangerous and likely to attack than other dog breeds. . .otherwise, take your anecdotes and biases somewhere else."

And if the point is really the severity, let's get some Rott. and Presa Canario dog and owner bashing in as well, just to spread the love around. Roll Eyes
I had a Boxer and a Springer growing up, my wife’s family was Wheaton territory.

We’re looking to get 2 dogs from the same litter in probably 2 years from now once our little guy gets older. Either German Wire-Haired Pointers or Airedales.

As for the ongoing debate on Pitbulls, I’ll only add these two things. #1) Dogs are bred to show certain attributes. Those are inherent in their make-up. All dogs can be bad, all dogs can be good. Dogs can be trained to do things (both good and bad) that may layer overtop of their inherent make-up but training, love, coddling can’t change what a dog, over generations of selective breeding, where designed to do. Pointers will almost always point. Ratters (many smaller terriers especially) want to kill little animals. Newfoundlands will inherently want to swim out and rescue you in open water. Dogs bred to fight large animals have that in their blood. You can layer over training and love so that they know not to do it, but it is still there, bottled up deep inside. On the flip side, no matter how much you train a cocker spaniel to be a fighting guard dog, it’s never going to be good at it. It’s not what it was bred to do…

And #2) My uncle is in the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police to you Americans) and was part of a house raid years ago where one of the other officers was bitten by a pitbull. My uncle emptied his revolver into the dog and the dog didn’t die and didn’t let go of the other officer until my uncle reloaded and shot him point blank in the head twice. I don’t care if it’s a pitbull or a toy poodle, personally, I wouldn’t want an animal that I knew I didn’t have to power to stop.
I can't believe I'm even going to say this, so for the record, let it be know that this is stupid to even get involved in, OK? Here comes the rant!!

ALL dogs have the potential to cause serious harm, both to other dogs as well as to humans. Take a look inside Fifi's mouth. Those teeth? They're not for chewing grass! They're designed to tear and shred meat. Sorry, that's the fact. ANY dog can be turned aggressive or dangerous, most likely as a result of irresponsible human activity (poor breeding, care, irresponsible human owners)! Well-bred and well-raised dogs of any breed can be great pets, including rottweiler's (who are usually big sweethearts) and pit-bulls. Unfortunately, because of the physical strengths these breeds have, some moronic humans have chosen to irresponsibly breed, teach, and train these poor animals to be dangerous. My Pyr loves pit bulls! I have no idea why, but whenever he sees one, he goes bounding over to play with it. He must know something I don't, because every time, they play well together. (I will admit, I get a little nervous and keep a real close eye on the pit until I get a feel for one as a new encounter - not the dogs fault...).

To keep a fair balance here, we had an incident in our neighborhood this past week where a black lab nearly killed a neighbors Wheaton terrier. These dogs had met before without incident, but the Wheaton's owner let it out off-leash, it went into the lab's yard, and who knows what went wrong, but the lab ended up doing significant damage (3 bite-marks around the throat, with 3 tubes in place to drain the punctures). Not a pretty sight folks. Neither dog had any history of conflict or aggressive behavior. Unattended, with territorial boundaries crossed (dogs are territorial), something snapped and it had a bad ending. So, is the lab a "bad" or "vicious" dog? OR, does the real fault for the incident lie with the owner who didn't act responsibly by keeping their dog in their yard?? The dogs were being dogs. The owner screwed up. While you'd hope it wouldn't end that way, dogs are dogs. They're animals, no matter what we think, there is always some "animal" left in our little, sweet, wouldn't hurt a flea, puppy.

Frankly, I'm a little pissed that this thread got off-track as it did. I was excited, as a dog lover, to see this thread pop up. Dogs are wonderful creatures that bring us so much joy and pleasure in our lives, yet a thread that should celebrate our family members (guessing most dog owners feel this way...) and our buddies has turned nasty is disappointing - it should be noted, this is not the fault of any of the dogs/breeds listed in this conversation. Big Grin One more fact for everyone to consider - the number of people killed/injured by dogs each year vs. the number of peopple killed/injured by other people a year?

I feel better now. Move along, nothing to see here... Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by Rob_Sutherland:
I don’t care if it’s a pitbull or a toy poodle, personally, I wouldn’t want an animal that I knew I didn’t have to power to stop.


Very reasonable comment and something I think about when I see very large powerful dogs leading their small owners around


LOL - I', 6'2", 200 lbs. My 2 dogs weigh #125 and #145, and for the record, the pound-for-pound badass in my house is a 9 lb Siamese cat. Trust me on this! Big Grin

My wife won't walk the larger Leonberger on her own because she can't control him IF something were to happen.
quote:
Originally posted by Bigfoot003:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by Rob_Sutherland:
I don’t care if it’s a pitbull or a toy poodle, personally, I wouldn’t want an animal that I knew I didn’t have to power to stop.


Very reasonable comment and something I think about when I see very large powerful dogs leading their small owners around


LOL - I', 6'2", 200 lbs. My 2 dogs weigh #125 and #145, and for the record, the pound-for-pound badass in my house is a 9 lb Siamese cat. Trust me on this! Big Grin

My wife won't walk the larger Leonberger on her own because she can't control him IF something were to happen.

my 7.5 pound cat owns my 54 pound lab. The cat ran the house until my son was born, now everyone cateers to him and he rules the house
quote:
Originally posted by Gigond Ass:
quote:
Originally posted by indybob:
Any Schipperke owners aboard? I've only met one, at a party about fifteen years ago, and it was the coolest little dog. Just loved that thing.
Yes. I dated a girl that had one. Meanest little shit on the planet. LOL.

It would bite off anyone's face that got near her. No Bob, not just mine.

I was never that worried, because I could punt it across the yard if needed. It was kind of annoying to have it snarl behind the door when I was walking to the john.

Good watch dog though.


Reminds me of the dog in Something about Mary.
quote:
Originally posted by Bigfoot003:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by Rob_Sutherland:
I don’t care if it’s a pitbull or a toy poodle, personally, I wouldn’t want an animal that I knew I didn’t have to power to stop.


Very reasonable comment and something I think about when I see very large powerful dogs leading their small owners around


LOL - I', 6'2", 200 lbs. My 2 dogs weigh #125 and #145, and for the record, the pound-for-pound badass in my house is a 9 lb Siamese cat. Trust me on this! Big Grin

My wife won't walk the larger Leonberger on her own because she can't control him IF something were to happen.


Being trapped in a room with an ornery Siamese would scare me more than almost any dog! Big Grin
I have two yellow labs, both from the same breeder. Mr. Utley is a 6 year old (foxfire red) male and Sonoma is a 5 month old (white) female.

I've always had labs and love their temperament. Still, I wouldn't leave them alone around children. Why tempt the fates? That's just my personal opinion and not meant to judge any other comments earlier in this thread.
quote:
Originally posted by differentdave:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bigfoot003:
LOL - I', 6'2", 200 lbs. My 2 dogs weigh #125 and #145, and for the record, the pound-for-pound badass in my house is a 9 lb Siamese cat. Trust me on this! Big Grin
my 7.5 pound cat owns my 54 pound lab. The cat ran the house until my son was born, now everyone cateers to him and he rules the house

I was just thinking about this very thing as I was perusing the posts sequentially.

We are completely (up til now) ignoring the threat of cats. Cats, Lions, Tigers...they all have the hunter/prowler gene and you never know when they could snap and turn on you.

A very unpredictable species indeed Wink

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