What are your feelings on the '00 CA Vintage????

Bought a bottle of 2000 Hanna and Whitehall Lane
Cab. Decanted for 2hrs. The 99's are some of my favorites.
Very disappointed in both. Hanna was quite
young, disjointed and hot tasting. Whitehall
Lane was a little better, but very weak with
little structure or fruit.
This confirms what I've been reading and hearing.
WAIT FOR 2001!!!!!!!

FWIW at this point, the zins I've had have been huge let downs from the '99 vintage, I'm drinking a '00 Youngs right now and while it is pleasant there is no concentration. If you really want a drop try the '99 Karly Warrior Fires next to the '00, the difference is astounding. I have been generally disappointed with the cabs as well (though with really limited sampling). I thought the Viader was empty, the Justin even more so, and the several 10 to 20 ones I've hit at tastings were just passing grade wines. Now compared to the '98s I think it's a step up, as I've mentioned before, the vegetal flavors haven't been there for me yet so that is a definate plus. On the bright side wineries like Del Dotto are making wines that while they don't posess monster concentration or big walls of tannin (unless you get that one out of the lavishly expensive French oak barrel, yooowwwsaaa! ), are very fruity in a good way, show some complexity, are extremely approachable, and should be considerably more popular than the '98s. In fact to a lot of people, for right now consumption, '00 might be a favorite over '98 and '99 as the wines seem to lack the austerity the young '99s had. Their longevity might be another question, but if their good now, who cares as long as the price is reasonable. That will be the question for a lot of us. If the prices stay up, no doubt I don't need any with '01 just around the corner and '00 Bordeaux here and a celler full of '94-'99s. We'll be seein' a bunch of them hit the tasting room floors over the next several months so it will be interesting to see.

I plan on looking overseas for reds this year and wait on the Cali '01s. But there still will be good wine made by those who know the tricks. The '00 Caymus SS was spectacular -- I only wish I could afford more of it!

RRV

I think by putting the '00 next to '99 you will see that '99 is better, just like putting the '98 next to the '97. With that said, I believe '00s will be better than the '98s. As with any difficult/lesser vintages from anywhere, just have to pick and chose and you should be okay.

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How 'bout a game of 8-ball for a nice bottle of Cab...

DRAB: Most wineries will snow the heck out of you when you ask a question like, especially Caymus (where they actually tell people that "we never have bad vintages at Caymus"). I have found some good stuff, but no great ones yet. Of course, most of the "heavy-hitters" have not been released yet......Personally, I get the feeling that 98 will turn out to be better.....

Yeah, and how do the prices on the 00s compare to the 99s???

Did 98 teach anybody a lesson... or not??

I can't afford it, but I buy it anyway.

You didn't expect honesty from a tasting room person about a wine he was trying to sell you, did you? Ooops. Forget the question.

Just one more sip.

While the percentage of good wines to poor seems slightly higher than for '98, it is still a case of taste before buying. Most of the cabs seem pretty weak, while the Sonoma zins are hit and miss. Some, such as Seghesio Cortina and Old Vines, are as bold as ever, while some others are off the mark. I tried some Amador zins which were very interesting (lots of spicy notes), but I have never tried them before so have no grounds for comparison. I am planning on spending less this year, and mainly on '00 Bordeaux. If '01 for Napa and Sonoma is as good as it sounds like so far I want to be able to stock up again next year.

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Forgive me for I have Zinned, and will again ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/08/dining/08WINE.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5062&en=ad31b3ceffbde365&ex=1042606800&partner=GOOGLE

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How 'bout a game of 8-ball for a nice bottle of Cab...

Good article Pyang, but seemed like just another opinion to throw in the hat....

B-O...actually I don't expect reliable answers from most tasting room people in Napa...I just thought that Caymus would be one of the few to count on an honest answer....

-DRAB

So much wine.....so little time!!!

After recently spending several days in Napa/Sonoma over the holidays my general impression of the 2000 vintage is that Cabs, Merlots & meritages are quite dry and somewhat tannic, a bit thin and lacking in fruit. Maybe they are still just too young but I had a very difficult time discerning any fruit flavors in most of the new releases we sampled. Almost all of the wines we purchased were 1999s. Most of the 2000s we have purchased to date are Syrahs & Rhone style blends from the Central Coast and Paso Robles. Those have turned out quite nicely.

The only 2000 that I have been able to taste, remember, and comment on is the Frogs Leap Cab. It tasted very young, too tart to enjoy.

Praise the Lord, pass the ammunition.

I would choose carefully. The 98's that I have tasted recently have been pretty good-i.e. Merryvale Profile on Christmas eve. Delicious. The 00 vintage will need time to show it's true colors as the 98's are showing now. I will not be too adventerous and will save the $$ for the 01 vintage as others have said here.

"We can share the women, we can share the wine."

Agree with RRV. The 00 Caymus SS is excellent. Perfect to drink now and definitely will age. The other one tasted was the 00 St. Clements Oroppas and it was also very good. Prides 2000 are very good indeed. Paloma 2000 is very good

for the most part, i'm gonna stick to recommendations from my friends, here in the forums, for the 2000 vintage. not much experimenting for me this year. i already fell for "viader", and even tho i haven't tried yet, it's not reading so well, eh?

Well, I've already headed north for my '00 Red wine fix -- Washington! Instead of Cali, it will be the year for Washington Cabs, Merlot, and Oregon Pinots! I picked up some '00 L'Ecole Apogee and '00 Columbia Valley Cab and was pleasantly surprised. This, paired with my Bethel Heights PN's will keep me from going crazy with all of the rain out here.

It turns out I didn't have to go very far at all..

Go Pac NW!!!!


RRV

While I had opinions on '99, I have not tried any '00 Cabs yet. I agree with the Stealthy one about the Zins--the 6 or so I've had = mediocre.

FWIW, those two varietals tend to correlate in vintage quality, though Cabs tend to do better because of the longer growing period.

I reserve opinion, but will likely use the year to save more $.

DrT

To compare '98 to '99 is a mistake. I consider '98s to be "uniquely mediocre" on the whole. Sure, there's lots of exceptions.
In some respects I prefer '99 to '97. '97 was overhyped IMO. Fruit forward; drinks well young, but in ten years I think I'd rather be drinking '99s.

But back to the original question. 2000 is generally not as good as '99.

One recent experience, fwiw, with Lake Sonoma Zins:
The '99 Russian River was outstanding. One of the best Zins I've ever had. The '99 Dry Creek was very good, but definitely the 2nd place wine of the two.
I'm assuming the Dry Creek plot is from a hotter area than the Russian River vineyard.
For 2000 it's the Dry Creek Zin that's outstanding, with the Russian River just being OK. I believe the RRV Zin needs a bit of time, also.

I think what that means is you may find some particular wine that you loved in '99, but don't in '00, and vice versa.

My feelings about the 2000 Cali vintage can't be separated from thoughts about the 2000 Bordeaux vintage, the 2001 Australian shiraz vintage, and the need to beat back pricing of cali cab. I am sipping the 2001 Henry's Drive Reserve shiraz as I write this and have also recently enjoyed the '01 Marquis Philips #9 and the '01 Oliver Hill. I know that QPR hunters will still research the 2000 Cali vintage, but if you have broad tastes in red wine, it might benefit the consumer to look abroad this year and hope that the growing domestic glut reins-in 2001 cali cab pricing. As someone whose job is currently threatened by off-shore technologists, I don't say "Boycott America" without pause. But California Wine producers and their middlemen are right up there with Enron execs in my book, so exercise all the leverage you have to curtail cab prices. Why not bypass Cali 2000 given that it's an off vintage? I'm open to counter arguments that favor the consumer.

P.S. Every 2000 Bordeaux < $30 and every 2001 shiraz < $30 I've tasted was unforgettable.

Let's roll...

I have not purchased a single 2000 California Cabernet and do not plan to.

For anyone interested, Parker just downgraded the vintage rating for 2000 Cal Cabs from 85 to 78 Points. His lowest rating since 1988.

VM

Unlike 1988, one could cherry-pick the 2000 vintage and find some very nice wines. But buying wines from the vintage blind would be a losing proposition. Can't fault anyone for passing on the vintage as a whole, but I am very happy with my purchases of:

Merus
Jones Family
Pahlmeyer
Peter Michael Les Pavots
Rudd Jericho and
Viader

But as I scan my inventory, I note that I have not purchased a single "off the shelf" Cabernet from a local wine shop. All of my 2000s were "special purchases", which is rare for me.

I tried no less than 50, 2000 California red wines in Napa in November.

I purchased exactly zero.

I did pick up a few 99's and a few of 01's based on tasting.

The only 00's I liked at all were the S. L. Cask 23 and the Duckhorn Reserve. Neither were worth the C-note plus they were asking.

Skip the vintage until they go on fire sale prices. Then skip them again.

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"One may dislike carrots, spinach, beetroot, or the skin on hot milk. But not wine. It is like hating the air that one breathes, since each is equally indispensable."

Marcel Ayme`

quote:

---

Originally posted by JimmyV:
I am very happy with my purchases of:

Merus
Jones Family
Pahlmeyer
Peter Michael Les Pavots
Rudd Jericho and
Viader

---

I'm sure those are OK wines, but for the prices they cost, in the $100 range, I want a lot more bang for my buck.

I have found 2000 to be enjoyable, but not cellar worthy.

I have found 1998 to be darker than 1998 with a little more extraction, but even more monolithic. In general, I have not liked 2000s at all. The bright spot has been for Santa Barbera, which produced some excellent 2000s (Ojai Roll Ranch Syrah quickly comes to mind).

a

"What contemptible scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch?" -- W.C. Fields

I had the same type of thought and thread just the other day. My 2000 Cal Cab impression is that they have been simple, not deep wines and I made a promise that no more $$ would go there. I am with RedRed that Washington is a good place for some big reds in '00. My cellar has only 1 98 cab and 8 00's. 5 of the 8 are Whitehall Lane which was on fire sale at our local store.

DBW

I've had a few damn good 98's that I would advise people to pick up (especially when you see them at bargin prices). In fact I've had several bottles of each of these wines and find them to be delicious right now.

98 Etude Cab
98 Harlan Estate
98 Shafer Hillside
98 Insignia
98 White Cottage Howell Mountain Cab
Just about every Turley

While many of you may disagree with this list I urge you to give them a try.
As for the 2000's I have not been impressed with any of them at this point. Unfortunately I have to may in my cellar already (can't pass these up at these prices kinda deal). So I'll wait for a while and see if they come around. I have a little hope since Parker scored some of them in the low 90's. Some of the 2000's I have that I'd love to rid myself of are:

2000 Behrens & Hitchcock Napa merlot, Napa cab, Kenefick Ranch, Napa Valley claret
2000 Viader
2000 Pahlmeyer merlot
2000 Hartwell merlot
2000 David Arthur cab & merritggio

I'll get around to posting these on the buying and selling forum eventually but if anyone out there is interested, please let me know.

Cheers,
Fox

My bottle of '00 Screaming Eagle was outstanding!

Only the mediocre are always at their best.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JimmyV:
Unlike 1988, one could cherry-pick the 2000 vintage and find some very nice wines. But buying wines from the vintage blind would be a losing proposition. Can't fault anyone for passing on the vintage as a whole, but I am very happy with my purchases of:

Merus
Jones Family
Pahlmeyer
Peter Michael Les Pavots
Rudd Jericho and
Viader

But as I scan my inventory, I note that I have not purchased a single "off the shelf" Cabernet from a local wine shop. All of my 2000s were "special purchases", which is rare for me.

---

I was disappointed with both the 2000 Merus and the 2000 Jones in comparison to the 1999 versions. They were both good wines, but I felt the 1999's were outstanding. The 2000 was just 'good'.

For what it's worth...

Cheers,
-J

I never claimed that the 2000s were as good (or better) than the 1999s. Only that I was "happy" with my purchases. Simply put, the wines I listed are very good, well worth drinking, and I would share them with any of you without the least bit of guilt. They will be early drinkers, and will allow me to hold on to my 97s, 99s, and 01s that much longer.

I wasn't trying to imply that that was what you were claiming. Sorry if it read that way.

I have tried and liked the
2000 Ridge Monte Bello and
2000 Mt. Eden Old Vine Reserve

Both are quite young right now, but they won't be a disapointment when you open them in the future!

Cheers,
-J

I second Fox on the '98 Insignia. It is, by far, the best '98 I've tasted and it is delicious for drinking right now. If you can find it for $90 or less, it is deffinitely worth picking up.

a

"What contemptible scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch?" -- W.C. Fields

I've had the 2000 Insignia and the Clark-Claudon and while I've enjoyed them, I wouldn't purchase any more of them. They aren't "78pt" efforts either, however. As all wise winos know, there are always wines that transcend the vintage (or at least drink well early ).

FWIW, I own 3 2000 Cali Cab bottlings:

Jones Family
Sherwin Family
Swanson Alexis

All good, solid offerings.

The Swanson is primarily for PURPLE in order to help keep her hands off the 1999's for a about a year.

The Sherwin and Jones are for both us and primarily to make things go a little better with the 2001 mailing list.

Joe

Well, a year has come and gone since this thread opened and I have bought virtually zilch of '00 Cal Cab. Bought
'00 Bond
'00 The Maiden
'00 Del Dotto Cab Franc
Will buy...
'00 Matriarch
'00 Bressler
Will be my stingiest Cal Cab vintage since I've been buying.

I have bought the 2000 Hanna Cab and the 2000 Jordan Cab. The Hanna was good, not great and probably never will be.

The Jordan on the other hand was very surprising. I drank it over three days and it seemed to get better as each day passed. It ended up being a very well balanced wine for being drunk so young. ie - it started out with good black fruit, a touch spicy, high acid and tannin. It ended up with good fruit moderate acid and tannin on the third day. BTW, I used a vacu-vin to seal the bottle each night. I may buy a couple more of this vintage, but I am really waiting for the '01.

I have had a handful of '00 Cabs but found them lacking mostly in the midpalate. For me that's not good. The '98's were harsher but with more body. The '00 Zins have been truly horrid. At current prices,I won't spend another dime on them.

The Cal Cab report:
Cellared '98's= 0
Cellared '99's= 12, though 2 Shafer HSS are on the way as of tonight
Cellared '00's= 0

Still, 14 bottles in 3 years is a representation of my opinion of the combined effect of quality and pricing of Cal. Cab wines over the last 3 years