winetarelli posted:

Also, haggis, if you haven’t seen it, I think you’d enjoy the trailer for Yesterday. The UK trailer might be even better than the U.S. one. 

Thank you for this, and the other, response.  Wonderful!  Thank you.  BTW: I think the live version of that song to which you refer (I presume, "While My Guitar Gently Weeps"), with Dhani Harrison, is incredible.

haggis posted:
winetarelli posted:

Also, haggis, if you haven’t seen it, I think you’d enjoy the trailer for Yesterday. The UK trailer might be even better than the U.S. one. 

Thank you for this, and the other, response.  Wonderful!  Thank you.  BTW: I think the live version of that song to which you refer (I presume, "While My Guitar Gently Weeps"), with Dhani Harrison, is incredible.

There are few on this forum I would enjoy meeting I haven’t met to date. You two are the exception!

wineart 2 posted:
haggis posted:
winetarelli posted:

Also, haggis, if you haven’t seen it, I think you’d enjoy the trailer for Yesterday. The UK trailer might be even better than the U.S. one. 

Thank you for this, and the other, response.  Wonderful!  Thank you.  BTW: I think the live version of that song to which you refer (I presume, "While My Guitar Gently Weeps"), with Dhani Harrison, is incredible.

There are few on this forum I would enjoy meeting I haven’t met to date. You two are the exception!

And the feeling is mutual.  Thank you for that thoughtful sentiment! 

haggis posted:
winetarelli posted:

Also, haggis, if you haven’t seen it, I think you’d enjoy the trailer for Yesterday. The UK trailer might be even better than the U.S. one. 

Thank you for this, and the other, response.  Wonderful!  Thank you.  BTW: I think the live version of that song to which you refer (I presume, "While My Guitar Gently Weeps"), with Dhani Harrison, is incredible.

Eric Clapton was once asked what it felt like to be the world’s greatest guitarist. He said, “I don’t know. Ask Prince.”  I think he may have been referring to that exact performance. 

 

And, of course, you are welcome!

haggis posted:
wineart 2 posted:
haggis posted:
winetarelli posted:

Also, haggis, if you haven’t seen it, I think you’d enjoy the trailer for Yesterday. The UK trailer might be even better than the U.S. one. 

Thank you for this, and the other, response.  Wonderful!  Thank you.  BTW: I think the live version of that song to which you refer (I presume, "While My Guitar Gently Weeps"), with Dhani Harrison, is incredible.

There are few on this forum I would enjoy meeting I haven’t met to date. You two are the exception!

And the feeling is mutual.  Thank you for that thoughtful sentiment! 

One thousand percent. Both of you. 

winetarelli posted:
haggis posted:
wineart 2 posted:
haggis posted:
winetarelli posted:

Also, haggis, if you haven’t seen it, I think you’d enjoy the trailer for Yesterday. The UK trailer might be even better than the U.S. one. 

Thank you for this, and the other, response.  Wonderful!  Thank you.  BTW: I think the live version of that song to which you refer (I presume, "While My Guitar Gently Weeps"), with Dhani Harrison, is incredible.

There are few on this forum I would enjoy meeting I haven’t met to date. You two are the exception!

And the feeling is mutual.  Thank you for that thoughtful sentiment! 

One thousand percent. Both of you. 

Get a room, already, you three!

bman posted:
winetarelli posted:
haggis posted:
wineart 2 posted:
haggis posted:
winetarelli posted:

Also, haggis, if you haven’t seen it, I think you’d enjoy the trailer for Yesterday. The UK trailer might be even better than the U.S. one. 

Thank you for this, and the other, response.  Wonderful!  Thank you.  BTW: I think the live version of that song to which you refer (I presume, "While My Guitar Gently Weeps"), with Dhani Harrison, is incredible.

There are few on this forum I would enjoy meeting I haven’t met to date. You two are the exception!

And the feeling is mutual.  Thank you for that thoughtful sentiment! 

One thousand percent. Both of you. 

Get a room, already, you three!

There's room for you! 

haggis posted:
bman posted:
winetarelli posted:
haggis posted:
wineart 2 posted:
haggis posted:
winetarelli posted:

Also, haggis, if you haven’t seen it, I think you’d enjoy the trailer for Yesterday. The UK trailer might be even better than the U.S. one. 

Thank you for this, and the other, response.  Wonderful!  Thank you.  BTW: I think the live version of that song to which you refer (I presume, "While My Guitar Gently Weeps"), with Dhani Harrison, is incredible.

There are few on this forum I would enjoy meeting I haven’t met to date. You two are the exception!

And the feeling is mutual.  Thank you for that thoughtful sentiment! 

One thousand percent. Both of you. 

Get a room, already, you three!

There's room for you! 

Awww shucks......

winetarelli posted:

MJ. Not usually my exact genre, but damn, good is good, and he was really good. 

I have something that say about this.  This isn’t meant as a critique of your musical tastes, ‘cause I think we have an enormous overlap.

 I will overlook many musicians, my musical heros’, faults...Jimi was a drugged our air head, Chuck Berry’s a womanizer, after reading Miles autobiography, I though that he was a bit of an a-hole, Garcia a junkie.  But man, I draw the line at paedofiles.   Eff that sorry ass, his music and every high powered lawyer he paid off to pay people off.  It may sound harsh, and certainly isn’t directed at you, Winetarelli, but I hope he is burning in hell, and I will never willingly listen to his music again.   Apologies for the PWI.

Jabe11,

I’ve always been able to separate art from artist*.  But MJ certainly hurt some young people. I don’t know the extent or level of consciousness about it, however. I was too young to have followed it closely (I’m Macauly Culkin’s age).  And even at that age I was clear in my own belief structure against trial-by-media and mob-mentality.  Once a more complete picture emerged in my mind many years ago, it was of a shattered man-boy who grossly mistreated some young people but possibly without realizing it; It was not clear to me that it was explicitly sexual — at least not in his mind — even though damaging for others, I am willing to assume. (I also thought he may have molested people, but it was unclear to me.)  I have not revisited the issue as an adult to re-gather unbiased evidence and re-try him in my own mind. Ironically, though, today Maureen Dowd wrote a piece on a new MJ documentary she says is fully damning. I’m not certain I want to see it — I like his music a lot and he’s dead, anyway.

*Wagner is the sole exception and I listen to him and love his music. But I wouldn’t play it at my wedding; not thrilled the Jerusalem Symphony now plays him — only because I wish people asked the question “why don’t they play Wagner?” so that a discussion could be had.  And some of his music is evocative of things it might not otherwise be to me. But I still listen. 

Don’t have time to give as thoughtful a response, as I’m holiday.   Nonetheless, yes, there is an existential boundary between the artist and his/her creation.  Don’t think MJ has been judged in the court of public opinion, as I feel I am in the strong minority....look at how popular he still is.  To me he is damned and always will be.

jabe11 posted:

Nonetheless, yes, there is an existential boundary between the artist and his/her creation.

Jabe11 / Winetarelli, I'm curious whether this boundary exists for you only for dead (and thus, no impact to their personal wealth) or for living artists as well.  As you might guess, I'm thinking about R Kelly here and the move to restrict his music (and earning thereof) as punishment for his (alleged) behavior.

sd-wineaux posted:
jabe11 posted:

Nonetheless, yes, there is an existential boundary between the artist and his/her creation.

Jabe11 / Winetarelli, I'm curious whether this boundary exists for you only for dead (and thus, no impact to their personal wealth) or for living artists as well.  As you might guess, I'm thinking about R Kelly here and the move to restrict his music (and earning thereof) as punishment for his (alleged) behavior.

The alleged behavior he just got a no-bail arrest warrant issued for...

sd-wineaux posted:
jabe11 posted:

Nonetheless, yes, there is an existential boundary between the artist and his/her creation.

Jabe11 / Winetarelli, I'm curious whether this boundary exists for you only for dead (and thus, no impact to their personal wealth) or for living artists as well.  As you might guess, I'm thinking about R Kelly here and the move to restrict his music (and earning thereof) as punishment for his (alleged) behavior.

It depends. And there can be a difference between “in theory” and “in practice”. Maybe I’ll write more on this later, but I don’t find Bill Cosby funny anymore. That isn’t a principled choice or stance. It isn’t a choice at all. I just don’t find him funny anymore. Also, I adore Polanski films. Now there are a lot of moral distinctions I would intellectually make between the two cases and I don’t them as directly analogous cases, but maybe others don’t see it the same way I do. But the reason I cannot watch Cosby and can watch... even an interview with Polanski, that isn’t based upon any conscious choice I’ve made. 

Although, maybe the totality of the circumstances surrounding Polanski allows me to separate the act from the man in a way the totality of circumstances surrounding Cosby could never let me do. 

I'm with Winetarelli on this. Have to separate the art from the artist, otherwise we'd be listening to Air Supply, watching films like You've Got Mail and looking at paintings of trees. People are flawed and it seems the cultural arts community has more than its share of them.

The latest musician to be publicly flogged is Ryan Adams whose music I like a lot. Anyone who has followed his career and read stuff about him realized he was a bit of an egotistical asshole long ago.

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