Dissolutioned with the recent turn of events? Seen too many of your friends and fellow posters suddenly vanish, never to be heard from again? Just need a change?

It's okay, nobody's going to judge you, so pour yourself a glass of something nice, and welcome aboard!
Original Post
I join in welcoming any Émigrés from ebob, and I share the concern that incivility and hostility here might drive them further down the line.

This forum has taken giant steps upward in meeting generally accepted community standards since I first joined. I didn't even post for years because I was loath to aim a flamethrower at fellow wine lovers.

Dissent, good-natured ribbing, common internet trash talking, and preposterous posturing is all good fun. I hate it, though, when meanness spoils the fun.

So, enjoy the banter, and bring on the facts.
quote:
Originally posted by Mimik:
The difference here is that the forum members and not the moderator will be the one to drive you away. Cool


Nice Razz

I still don't get why Squires is in charge of that board.

From some of Parker's posts I read, he seems like a cool dude. How/why does he put up with it?
quote:
Originally posted by Sticky2:
quote:
Originally posted by Mimik:
The difference here is that the forum members and not the moderator will be the one to drive you away. Cool


Nice Razz

I still don't get why Squires is in charge of that board.

From some of Parker's posts I read, he seems like a cool dude. How/why does he put up with it?


If a cool dude would not put up with it, given that he does put up with it he therefore must not be a cool dude. Hey, maybe he is pulling squires' strings on the whole thing.
quote:
Originally posted by Machine:
quote:
Originally posted by Sticky2:
quote:
Originally posted by Mimik:
The difference here is that the forum members and not the moderator will be the one to drive you away. Cool


Nice Razz

I still don't get why Squires is in charge of that board.

From some of Parker's posts I read, he seems like a cool dude. How/why does he put up with it?


If a cool dude would not put up with it, given that he does put up with it he therefore must not be a cool dude. Hey, maybe he is pulling squires' strings on the whole thing.


Hmmm, you make a good point. What is Squires without Bob?
quote:
Originally posted by Mimik:
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
quote:
Originally posted by indyb0b:
Dissolutioned


That's what French's Yellow Mustard does to you!


Big Grin .


I am going to devise a secret method to slay the French's yellow mustard plants in the country.BRHAHAHHAHAHAHAAA
welcome fellow ebobers.....

What was in Van Gorp's thread? Why did Posner get banned?
DutchMuse,

There's a much greater chance people will be allowed to read it here. The moderator here will allow it to stay.

My suggestion would be post it here and provide a link to it here on the other board. That link won't last long, but at least some people will get to read it.
quote:
Originally posted by Stefania Wine:
DutchMuse,

There's a much greater chance people will be allowed to read it here. The moderator here will allow it to stay.

My suggestion would be post it here and provide a link to it here on the other board. That link won't last long, but at least some people will get to read it.


Hi

I meant it was posted on the WineSpectator's thread on the WSJ article. But I'll re-post here to make it easy for people:

Bob,

This is an unfortunate but apparently self-inflicted blow to the Wine Advocate’s reputation, which is painful to watch. As you recall, I wrote a very heartfelt private email to you a couple of years ago, alerting you to issues with how TWA was perceived based upon issues with how the board was being run, and how I observed participants on the board were being treated. As I told you at the time, a true friend will tell you the truth even if it is painful to share, and painful to hear—and I privately shared the concern with you regarding the heavy handed moderation style on the board, in which people were either banned or strongly censored for expressing their opinion that did not comport with the “approved view” (my term), and the oftentimes sarcastic, disrespectful way I perceived some of these people to be treated by some of your staff. You recall that I told you that it had almost come to the point that the group of people kicked out were more interesting than the group left over. You were kind enough to reply, and indicated you would look into it and get back to me, but I never received a follow up reply after that. At the time, I figured that I had gone out on a limb to share my concerns with you privately, and that apparently you gave this the weight you felt it deserved, and since I had said my peace, that was all there was to it. (I must acknowledge, I did not appreciate your forwarding my email to Mark Squires, with whom I have had conflicts ever since).

As the recent events have unfolded, I have found myself reflecting on our correspondence about some of the concerns that are now being so openly aired.

The whole Miller/Squires imbroglio raises many questions and has left many people disappointed, and has unfortunately shone a light on both management and operational style at TWA that may be in need of attention. For example:

1) The more I have reflected on the issue with the $25,000 trip and other trips by Jay, I have found myself wondering when you first learned of his sponsored trips and other perquisites. Although I assumed you learned of them just recently, the more I thought about it, I have begun to wonder how you could not have known about his sponsored trips at the time. Assuming he never submitted expenses to you for these trips, who did you think was paying for them? Did it not occur to you that someone else might be paying for them? Did Jay ever mention someone else paid for the trips?

2) Why do you believe the “independent contractors” do not need to follow the same standards you have required for yourself? When you set up your standards, you apparently felt these were important to adhere to. Is it less important that others follow them than you? You have stated that you cannot control their behavior, but you could require that they adhere to the same standards as you for any work they do on your behalf , as a condition of their continued independent contractor status. Seems to me this is imperative for the reputation of TWA. We find ourselves in the strange position of being reminded of the high standards you set for yourself but if others aren’t required to follow them, then the implied question is “Are they really that important to follow?” This isn’t healthy for TWA.

3) Some are asking if there are other standards you so courageously set forth over the years that have eroded, such as your standard of blind tastings whenever possible. Do you still taste wines blind whenever possible, and do you ask that your independent contractors follow this standard? Again, if you felt it important enough to establish in the beginning and important enough to explicitly state in each issue, you must have a good reason. Is TWA still following the stated principle of blind tastings whenever possible?

4) I wasn’t going to bring this up to you again, but in the spirit of Dan Posner being banned, I will one last time. There is a style, which I find troublesome, on the board, of participants and subscribers being at times treated in a heavy handed way that can be seen as sarcastic or lacking in respect. People are sometimes afraid to post certain things, or to bring up certain topics for fear of being insulted, censored or banned. It was, after all, Dan Posner being treated in a sarcastic way by Mark, who accused him (Posner) of bias, with an emoticon of eyes rolling in the thread on Australian wines (article by Steinberger) that was the spark that set off this whole mess. For better or worse, Dan is spirited about these issues, and he now is banned, which as others have said, just angers people more and actually makes a bad situation worse. Internet boards aren’t subject to freedom of speech laws, and it is certainly your choice to ban him, but there are consequences for this type of suppression. These attempts to stifle discussion and debate negate the transparency and democracy you state you want for TWA. If you want it, you might review the list of people who are banned or censored and ask why the list is so large, and why these people were banned. Seemingly small things like moving the threads that discuss CellarTracker to Social Hall bother people and create the impression that you and your independent contractors are either afraid of these issues or are thin skinned or petty. You are the leader—the moderation style of which I speak does not do your stature justice.

As I wrote you privately before, please accept these comments in the spirit they are written—as someone who will go out on a limb to constructively express honest concerns. It seems that this whole mess has touched upon larger issues, such as duplicity, ethics, trust, and respect. Given the complexity and depth of reactions and issues, repairing the damage won’t be easy or quick. True transparency and a move toward more democracy will greatly speed the process.
Do you think that Mr.Squires would be upset if I posted an invite on his site saying, come to WS forums for a good time?

Think I'll be banned real quick.

Love to see Squires post here, and then we can flame him, and he can't delete the posts. What a concept.
quote:
Originally posted by DutchMuse:
I'm the guy (van Gorp) who posted an open letter to Bob; for a couple of hours it was up as a sticky, then poof, it disappeared.

Rather than re-post it here, may I direct you over to the WSJ thread where its posted?

Wilfred van Gorp


Well glad to have you over here Wil.

Mike
quote:
Originally posted by mareff:
quote:
Originally posted by gigabit:
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
quote:
Originally posted by indyb0b:
Dissolutioned


That's what French's Yellow Mustard does to you!

Too many ballpark hot dogs? Smile


I hope they were Kosher!!


And meatless!! Eek Popcorn
quote:
Originally posted by Mimik:
You go girl!! Post it!! I'd love to see his reaction.
You go girl???? KSC02, Steve8, DoktaP, Futronic and the rest of the Canada crew, I think you guys need to rule on this. I think he loses his wine guy weekend privileges for at least one year for saying that….. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by GlennK:
quote:
Originally posted by Mimik:
You go girl!! Post it!! I'd love to see his reaction.
You go girl???? KSC02, Steve8, DoktaP, Futronic and the rest of the Canada crew, I think you guys need to rule on this. I think he loses his wine guy weekend privileges for at least one year for saying that….. Wink
While not on the aforementioned list I will nevertheless cast a vote for "oh no he deh'int!"
quote:
Originally posted by Dunder:
quote:
Originally posted by GlennK:
quote:
Originally posted by Mimik:
You go girl!! Post it!! I'd love to see his reaction.
You go girl???? KSC02, Steve8, DoktaP, Futronic and the rest of the Canada crew, I think you guys need to rule on this. I think he loses his wine guy weekend privileges for at least one year for saying that….. Wink
While not on the aforementioned list I will nevertheless cast a vote for "oh no he deh'int!"


Cute comment.

May I say "go boy go?? Razz
quote:
Originally posted by GlennK:
quote:
Originally posted by Mimik:
You go girl!! Post it!! I'd love to see his reaction.
You go girl???? KSC02, Steve8, DoktaP, Futronic and the rest of the Canada crew, I think you guys need to rule on this. I think he loses his wine guy weekend privileges for at least one year for saying that….. Wink


He's already lost his cooking privileges after trying to fry bacon in butter and we already subtract 5 points for any score he gives, so we've gotta let him keep posting. It's all that he has! Razz Big Grin

That said, we'll make him bring an extra bottle of Brunello to the Italian offline in Toronto next week so we can look the other way on this one.
quote:
Originally posted by I.U. Hoosier:
Indy Bob must be a Purdue grad.


I see waaaayyyyy more stinky hippies in Bloomington than I do in West Lafayette. Razz Besides, I'm a Humboldt State grad (uh, nevermind the hippie stuff, HSU practically invented them).

See all the fun you've been missing Ebobbers!!!
quote:
Originally posted by GlennK:
quote:
Originally posted by Mimik:
You go girl!! Post it!! I'd love to see his reaction.
You go girl???? KSC02, Steve8, DoktaP, Futronic and the rest of the Canada crew, I think you guys need to rule on this. I think he loses his wine guy weekend privileges for at least one year for saying that….. Wink


Perfectly fine, if he typed it with a lisp, though.
There's a thread in Social Hall (from yesterday) about a rewording of WA policy. Squires put in the final post (and locked it), moaning about how he and Miller will now be taking fewer trips, and the WA readers will suffer reduced coverage. He sounds very resentful. He also complained of people harassing him with a barrage of immature threads that he has to delete.
quote:
Originally posted by DutchMuse:
I'm the guy (van Gorp) who posted an open letter to Bob; for a couple of hours it was up as a sticky, then poof, it disappeared.

Rather than re-post it here, may I direct you over to the WSJ thread where its posted?

Wilfred van Gorp


Wilfred,

Hope you can be a regular here. I enjoy reading you in the WoFW (best wine magazine hands down).
quote:
Originally posted by yhn:
quote:
Originally posted by GlennK:
quote:
Originally posted by Mimik:
You go girl!! Post it!! I'd love to see his reaction.
You go girl???? KSC02, Steve8, DoktaP, Futronic and the rest of the Canada crew, I think you guys need to rule on this. I think he loses his wine guy weekend privileges for at least one year for saying that….. Wink


Perfectly fine, if he typed it with a lisp, though.


It was the metrosexual in me that made me do it. Hey, a straight man can say it, can't he? Confused For christ sake's, we are men(mostly) talking about wine on an internet chat board.. uh I think I can proudly say " You go Girl" and not feel to be the odd one out. Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by GlennK:
quote:
Originally posted by Mimik:
You go girl!! Post it!! I'd love to see his reaction.
You go girl???? KSC02, Steve8, DoktaP, Futronic and the rest of the Canada crew, I think you guys need to rule on this. I think he loses his wine guy weekend privileges for at least one year for saying that….. Wink

Red Face Mimik who?

Who is this guy anyway?? (bus passing over flattened emoticon here)
quote:
Originally posted by Mimik:
It was the metrosexual in me that made me do it. Hey, a straight man can say it, can't he? Confused For christ sake's, we are men(mostly) talking about wine on an internet chat board.. uh I think I can proudly say " You go Girl" and not feel to be the odd one out. Big Grin

Not to mention the inordinate amount of winking that goes on here. Wink
Do you all think this will really have a long-term impact on TWA's reputation? This will blow over within the next month. Manny Ramirez, who was recently suspended for 50 games by Major League Baseball for suspicion of steroid use, is currently the fourth-leading vote getter for the MLB All-Star game.

My point? People have short-term memories.
Serious wine drinkers (the type who contribute regularly to these boards) will not forget this, IMO. The damage is done at this point. Respect has been lost on a grand scale now.

The average, mass market, wine drinker is quite impervious to this whole debacle even now and won't give much thought process to the weight of all this. You can be sure of that. No damage done from that aspect. It'll received little more attention than a grey cloud in the sky.

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