I am relatively new to wine and just started to collect about 5 years ago. I do have a few hundred bottles of mostly French (2000 Bordeaux, 2002, 2003, and 2005 red Burgundy, and 2001 and 2003 CdPs) and Italian wines (1999 and 2001 Brunellos, 2000 and 2001 Barolos, and 2001 Super Tuscans) with a mixed case or two of California cabs and a sprinkling of 2005 Shiraz and 2004 Oregon pinots.

I drank all of my small collection 1997 Brunellos and Barolos over the last couple of years which I thought were all great. After reading some tasting notes and random posts on other people's experiences, it got me thinking that perhaps I've committed infanticide. Tasting and smelling secondary flavors of a wine are appealing to me (in addition to the integration of tannins, acidity and fruit of course), but I'm not sure if I've maximized that experience when I drank these wines. I've followed the drinking windows that are generally provided by WS for a particular wine.

So, my question is this: Do you feel that the drinking windows provided by WS are generally spot on or from your personal experience, do you generally go earlier or later in the drinking window when opening a bottle? I generally have a 4-6 bottles of a particular wine. My inclination is to not waste one if one can avoid it. Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks!
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
I am relatively new to wine and just started to collect about 5 years ago. I do have a few hundred bottles of mostly French (2000 Bordeaux, 2002, 2003, and 2005 red Burgundy, and 2001 and 2003 CdPs) and Italian wines (1999 and 2001 Brunellos, 2000 and 2001 Barolos, and 2001 Super Tuscans) with a mixed case or two of California cabs and a sprinkling of 2005 Shiraz and 2004 Oregon pinots.



Darn DoubleD ( are you a man or women Red Face?) you do not own any wine ready to enjoy yet! Razz
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
I am relatively new to wine and just started to collect about 5 years ago. I do have a few hundred bottles of mostly French (2000 Bordeaux, 2002, 2003, and 2005 red Burgundy, and 2001 and 2003 CdPs) and Italian wines (1999 and 2001 Brunellos, 2000 and 2001 Barolos, and 2001 Super Tuscans) with a mixed case or two of California cabs and a sprinkling of 2005 Shiraz and 2004 Oregon pinots.



Darn DoubleD ( are you a man or women Red Face?) you do not own any wine ready to enjoy yet! Razz

And not enough champagne...
quote:
Originally posted by sprnplr:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
I am relatively new to wine and just started to collect about 5 years ago. I do have a few hundred bottles of mostly French (2000 Bordeaux, 2002, 2003, and 2005 red Burgundy, and 2001 and 2003 CdPs) and Italian wines (1999 and 2001 Brunellos, 2000 and 2001 Barolos, and 2001 Super Tuscans) with a mixed case or two of California cabs and a sprinkling of 2005 Shiraz and 2004 Oregon pinots.



Darn DoubleD ( are you a man or women Red Face?) you do not own any wine ready to enjoy yet! Razz

And not enough champagne...


Post number 1000 and about Champagne.

You are a gentleman and a scholar sprnplr!!!
Tough question not knowing exactly what you have. But most is not ready to drink now. you can drink the Oregon pinotsif you let them decant long enough.

You need to go out and buy some "drink now" wines. Many of the reds are not the style that I like, but you need to fill some holes.

Patience my son!
For my palate, I find that James Suckling's drinking windows are a little early. I tend to add at least a few years depending on what the wine is (Barolo, Barbaresco, and Brunello in particular).
I tend to rely on his (JS) drinking windows (and scores) - but I haven't reached a conclusion on the reliability of them.

I would be quite interested in other views on this point.
I believe the WS reviewers have stated they are conservative, to the young side, with their drinking windows. Better a little too young than over the hill.
I agree with Steve.

The drinking window offers a starting point if you will, with an educated guess of life span.

You will often notice these windows will change when the wine is re-tasted again, many times at the wines 10th anniversary. You can only call it as you see it when you taste it.

I find a tasting note or drinking window of value within the first five years. Much after that it serves little purpose for me. I also find a rating of a wine 10,15 or 20 years ago of little use until tasted again.

While it is indeed a guess, some are far more educated than others, and I seek out opinions from palates I respect.
I also agree sith steve8, futronic, & wine+art.

However, I prefer mature Bordeaux, allowing enough time for the fruit to emerge and the tannins soften. And depending on the wine, the same applies to Burgundy or Italian wines.

Also, it is difficult to make a broad statement about maturity as you can bet a Lafite Rothschild will require many more years than a Meyney. In other words, the quality of the wine is the huge variable.

I give top Cali Cabs about 7-10 maturity and sometimes even a little more time, but a Sebastiani Secolo----I'll pour early!
quote:
Originally posted by latour67:
I also agree sith steve8, futronic, & wine+art.

However, I prefer mature Bordeaux, allowing enough time for the fruit to emerge and the tannins soften. And depending on the wine, the same applies to Burgundy or Italian wines.

Also, it is difficult to make a broad statement about maturity as you can bet a Lafite Rothschild will require many more years than a Meyney. In other words, the quality of the wine is the huge variable.

I give top Cali Cabs about 7-10 maturity and sometimes even a little more time, but a Sebastiani Secolo----I'll pour early!



... and you are one of the palates I respect. Cool
Thanks for your insight so far!

I understand that the drinking window for a Clos du Marquis will be different from a Lafite Rothchild, and I think the WS suggestion reflects it. What I was trying to gauge from others are your personal experience with WS drinking windows. Futronic felt that Suckling's drinking windows were a little early for him for the Italian wines. I started drinking my 1997 Brunellos in 2004 which was the beginning of the WS window. Could I have waited a few more years for the wine to develop further? I believe the answer is yes. In retrospect, reviewing the tasting notes from others through Cellar Tracker or WS would have helped me understand where the wine is in its development.

Unfortunately, I don't have any First Growths or Grange or Massetos. The average price of my bottles are typically between $50 and $100.
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
I started drinking my 1997 Brunellos in 2004 which was the beginning of the WS window. Could I have waited a few more years for the wine to develop further? I believe the answer is yes. In retrospect, reviewing the tasting notes from others through Cellar Tracker or WS would have helped me understand where the wine is in its development.

Unfortunately, I don't have any First Growths or Grange or Massetos. The average price of my bottles are typically between $50 and $100.

DD-
The answer to your comment regarding the '97's is yes, they would have continued to delvelop. But hey, I personally prefer to open one still 'developing' than on the decline, personally. Opening in 2004 wasn't a case of infanticide. Did you enjoy them? That's the most important thing.

I have one bottle of 1997 Solaia. Last year, Suckling suggested 2 more years to 'peak'. With only one bottle, I'll target that. But that JS target was made immediately following a tasting he made of that wine, so it's a darn good estimate, depending bottle variation of course. Close enough for me.

Regarding the prices of your wines: The same good advice given by the forumites above holds true for youryour wines as it does for the "First Growths or Grange or Massetos". The difference? The 'when to open' windows will be substantially shorter. The same advice applies, whether a good quality wine, or a great one.
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:

The average price of my bottles are typically between $50 and $100.



There is absolutely a sea of great wine at that price range DD. Big Grin

Many of the wines selling today for $150+ were selling 5-10 yeas ago in your price range.

Just stay ahead of the curve. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
... and you are one of the palates I respect. Cool



w+a---Thanks, I try to keep that palate well oiled!

DoubleD $50/$100, as W+A mentioned, will get you a lot of excellent wines, capable of improving for years. Also, 15 years ago, you could get a Bordeaux First Growth for $35! However, when the First Growths surpassed $200 per bottle, I found their wine just didn't taste that good, and left!
The drinking windows for many wines are dependant on how they are stored. For example, something that is in a cellar at 64 degrees matures quicker then someone who has a Eurocave set to 55 degrees.

The above being taken into account, I have also noted that many of the windows posted by WS are a little early for my taste. It is important to keep in mind each person's palate is different.
DD,

I'll make sure your wine is the first one I drink after winning this year's Fantasy Football. I'll be glad to let you know how it's showing Smile
WS seem to recommend drinking wines early. In most cases I'd have no worries about holding a wine way beyond the end of their drinking window.

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