I never trust the opinion of anyone trying to sell me something.
quote:Originally posted by TheVineWoman:
I have seen Gary and WLTV, but I wish I wouldn't have. He is a joke and comes across as having a huge Ego. He tries to be a class clown who thinks he can change the wine world.
Sorry Gary, you should leave the wine ratings to the professionals like RP and just stick to selling wine.
Way to tread gently with your first post, TheVineWoman....
quote:Originally posted by Mimik:
Well said Tanglenet!! Exactly what I've been saying all along.
Those of us who don't agree understand that, but still don't agree. clicky
I'm not sure if there is much point to debating the issue further.
quote:Originally posted by ND:
I never trust the opinion of anyone trying to sell me something.
Everyone has something to sell.
This whole thing is really a generational thing. I'd bet most folks who are into WLTV are younger (in body and/or spirit). Most people who don't get WLTV are probably older. Neither is right or wrong. Gary might disagree, as he preaches inclusivity, but WLTV may be another version of FUBU (For Us By Us, BTW), but as long as the WLTVers are don't disregard the opinions of the elder statesmen outright, that FUBU attitude is fine with me.
Am I the only one who wishes someone (a la Mark Squires) would just MERGE these 2 threads? 
I don’t think it’s an age thing at all. I’m young, I like Gary, I think he is good for wine in general, but I don’t take him serious as an unbiased wine critic. Tanglenet summed it up pretty well IMO.quote:Originally posted by indybob:quote:Originally posted by ND:
I never trust the opinion of anyone trying to sell me something.
Everyone has something to sell.
This whole thing is really a generational thing. I'd bet most folks who are into WLTV are younger (in body and/or spirit). Most people who don't get WLTV are probably older. Neither is right or wrong. Gary might disagree, as he preaches inclusivity, but WLTV may be another version of FUBU (For Us By Us, BTW), but as long as the WLTVers are don't disregard the opinions of the elder statesmen outright, that FUBU attitude is fine with me.
quote:Originally posted by Yonster24:
Am I the only one who wishes someone (a la Mark Squires) would just MERGE these 2 threads?
More like close them down and delete them altogehter (a la Squires). I would vote for that.
quote:In the end, it's just wine. If I don't like it, I'll find friends who do and give it to them!
And that's fine too. I certainly don't care what you do with your wine. And, if you'd prefer RP, WS, and cellartracker to stock your cellar, that's your choice. Nothing wrong with that.
I'm just saying the same thing that Roy Hersh said earlier, and that Gary V. said earlier, and that Parker says too. Trust your own palate, and educate it before you drop money on something you can barely afford. What someone else thinks is great or will be great in 20 years, may not make a lot of difference if it's not your cup of tea.
quote:Originally posted by dr.darkrichandbold:
]
And, if you'd prefer RP, WS, and cellartracker to stock your cellar, that's your choice. Nothing wrong with that.
I'm just saying the same thing that Roy Hersh said earlier, and that Gary V. said earlier, and that Parker says too. Trust your own palate, and educate it before you drop money on something you can barely afford.
You're missing the point that I trust my palate and wine knowledge enough to buy these wines knowing I've enjoyed them from other vintages. Maybe not everyone is comfortable with this, but so far it's worked out great for me.
My original statement was in agreement with you:
quote:I am a strong advocate of only buying wines that you have tried and know you will enjoy. But it's not easy, or possible to do this in many instances due to finances.
You are making the assumption that I can "barely afford" these wines? My budget allows me quite a bit of freedom in my wine purchases. That said, it's not a loss to me if in 10 years I don't like 1 of two bottles I purchased...as to taste it in the first place I would have bought one of the bottles. Again, the other bottle I can use for cooking or give to my father or a friend. Maybe I'll look you up in 10 years and donate a few bottles I don't like.
Since you seem to be so adamant that you should only buy wines you know you'll like:
How do you taste every wine you purchase before you actually purchase it? Meaning, do you not have to make an initial purchase of one bottle before stocking up?
How are you able to predict how a wine will evolve over time? Wines undergo serious transformations over time...if you like it in 2008, doesn't mean you'll like it in 2020. On the other hand...you may love a wine now, but in 10 years you might think it's mediocre.
One final thing, you said it yourself that palates change over time as do wine preference. If I buy a bottle now, love it and lay down a case of it for 20 years, who is to say I'll still be enjoying those wines in 20 years? To me it's silly to fill a cellar with cases of the same thing when there is so much great stuff out there to try, especially when you're preferences for style of wine might be completely different by the time the wines peak.
Interesting take from the LA Times regarding Bevmo. Does this also apply to WLTV?
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tongue3mar03,1,49...y?ctrack=1&cset=true
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tongue3mar03,1,49...y?ctrack=1&cset=true
quote:Originally posted by indybob:quote:Originally posted by ND:
I never trust the opinion of anyone trying to sell me something.
Everyone has something to sell.
This whole thing is really a generational thing. I'd bet most folks who are into WLTV are younger (in body and/or spirit). Most people who don't get WLTV are probably older. Neither is right or wrong. Gary might disagree, as he preaches inclusivity, but WLTV may be another version of FUBU (For Us By Us, BTW), but as long as the WLTVers are don't disregard the opinions of the elder statesmen outright, that FUBU attitude is fine with me.
hmmmm....it's an interesting take and I'm not sure where I would classify myself in the WLTV demographic but I know I have learned a ton from Gary AND the people on the forum. Guys like GeneV and Julius really bring the knowledge. There are a lot of people over on the WLTV forum that have a thirst for knowledge and reallyu could care less why Gary is doing what he is doing because they get so much out of it.
Squires, WS, Vino, and WLTV all have such different vibes but there are so many great things about each that I would hate to say to any of them, "stick with what you know best." It would be like telling Roy to stick with fortified and not bother with dry.
Sarbuze....let's revisit what you said:
1. What you should have said is you're a strong advocate of buying PRODUCERS you have tried. That's different than "wines you have tried". And, again, my point is that is a potentially big waste. Every vintage is different. Take California and Phelps Insignia. Of any region, CA's weather varies the least. Now take 3 vintages in a row. '97, '98, '99. All VERY different, and as such VERY different Insignias. And, all priced at over $100. To simply buy any of these because you liked the '92, and '94 is no guarantee you'll like any of the latter. And, as I see it, if your finances are "limited" you are potentially allocating money in the wrong place unknowingly.
2. I'm not assuming you can barely afford anything....you said you can "only afford so much" and "it's not easy or possible in many instances due to finances".
3. Your specific example here with the Valdicava is an exception to the rule. #1...you got them at a very good price, and I too would jump at an opportunity like this regardless of tasting first. Where we differ is that I also look at the investment potential. If those bottles are now worth double...do I really want to hold on to them. Suckling might think it's a 100 pt'er, but I might not. So I'll try one and see. Or, simply think twice if I really want to ever open a $400 Brunello! There's some great wine out there for that kind of money.
With the kind of money being tossed around in wine now, If I'm cellaring to drink, I better be sure it's a wine I'll like. If others are comfortable investing this kind of change and keeping their fingers crossed that it will deliver, that's up to them. Hopefully money doesn't matter.
quote:I am a strong advocate of only buying wines that you have tried and know you will enjoy. But it's not easy, or possible to do this in many instances due to finances. For instance, I'm a big Brunello fan and love Valdicava from the few vintages I've had. When a chance to pick up some of the 2001 Riserva came up in August of last year, I jumped on it. I bought two bottles at $175 a pop and don't plan on opening them for a long time! I've done this with a few 2005 Bordeaux's as well...I can only afford so much and would rather enjoy it in a few years when it matures. The Bordeaux I did purchase, by the way, were based on reviews by all available sources, as well as reading forums such as these (one specifically was based on a show by Gary V on the 2005 Secret de Cardinale)."
1. What you should have said is you're a strong advocate of buying PRODUCERS you have tried. That's different than "wines you have tried". And, again, my point is that is a potentially big waste. Every vintage is different. Take California and Phelps Insignia. Of any region, CA's weather varies the least. Now take 3 vintages in a row. '97, '98, '99. All VERY different, and as such VERY different Insignias. And, all priced at over $100. To simply buy any of these because you liked the '92, and '94 is no guarantee you'll like any of the latter. And, as I see it, if your finances are "limited" you are potentially allocating money in the wrong place unknowingly.
2. I'm not assuming you can barely afford anything....you said you can "only afford so much" and "it's not easy or possible in many instances due to finances".
3. Your specific example here with the Valdicava is an exception to the rule. #1...you got them at a very good price, and I too would jump at an opportunity like this regardless of tasting first. Where we differ is that I also look at the investment potential. If those bottles are now worth double...do I really want to hold on to them. Suckling might think it's a 100 pt'er, but I might not. So I'll try one and see. Or, simply think twice if I really want to ever open a $400 Brunello! There's some great wine out there for that kind of money.
With the kind of money being tossed around in wine now, If I'm cellaring to drink, I better be sure it's a wine I'll like. If others are comfortable investing this kind of change and keeping their fingers crossed that it will deliver, that's up to them. Hopefully money doesn't matter.
Responses 1-3: My finances allow me a generous wine budget, but not infinite. "can only afford so much" referred to the bottles of $175/bottle wine...and my statement to most people would suggest I CAN AFFORD the two bottles ("so much") without effecting future wine purchases.
I only buy 2-3 bottles of a particular wine for cellaring, if I were going to buy the wine to taste it young, in my opinion I may as well buy 2-3, cellar it until it peaks, and find out then whether or not I like it. My finances, and cellar, allow for this.
And you forgot to address the following point:
Wines and palates change over time (as you said yourself). How can you be sure the case of wine you bought today, that you love now, is still going to be a wine you enjoy in 5, 10, 20 years?
You can't. No one can. So I'd say you're potentially missing out on having bottles in your cellar you'll enjoy in 20 years just because you were only buying stuff that tasted good to you when it (and you) were younger.
I only buy 2-3 bottles of a particular wine for cellaring, if I were going to buy the wine to taste it young, in my opinion I may as well buy 2-3, cellar it until it peaks, and find out then whether or not I like it. My finances, and cellar, allow for this.
And you forgot to address the following point:
Wines and palates change over time (as you said yourself). How can you be sure the case of wine you bought today, that you love now, is still going to be a wine you enjoy in 5, 10, 20 years?
You can't. No one can. So I'd say you're potentially missing out on having bottles in your cellar you'll enjoy in 20 years just because you were only buying stuff that tasted good to you when it (and you) were younger.
quote:Originally posted by dr.darkrichandbold:
Every vintage is different. Take California and Phelps Insignia. Of any region, CA's weather varies the least. Now take 3 vintages in a row. '97, '98, '99. All VERY different, and as such VERY different Insignias. And, all priced at over $100. To simply buy any of these because you liked the '92, and '94 is no guarantee you'll like any of the latter. And, as I see it, if your finances are "limited" you are potentially allocating money in the wrong place unknowingly.
Maybe the difference is you have more rigid tastes? I'll grant that different vintages of a wine like Insignia will be different, but for my palate, I wouldn't worry about them being so different that I would like the '94, but not the '97 (as a side note, having only had access to the '97s more experienced wine drinkers saved I have yet to have a '97 CA Cab/Blend I didn't like). It's nice you have experience with all these vintages to tell us about though.
Now, if the vintage was a dud and you bought before that could be ascertained, that's one thing, but we've been explicitly talking about purchases based on vintage, prior experience with a producer, ratings and, especially for me, experiences of my bulletin board colleagues.
Further, we're talking about buying 2-3 bottles without tasting. I'm not saying I've never had a bad experience after buying 2 bottles w/out prior tasting, but "bad" is probably a strong word, and it is still an experience, which is the part of the process for all us whipper snappers.
Thinking back, I have bought wines untasted I later regretted because it was a terrible vintage (3 "bargain" – but undrinkable – 2002 CdP's) and others because that had not been stored properly (After loving both bottlings, I grabbed 8 1999/2000 Don Melchors in 2005 - 2 were somewhat oxidized). But I have yet to purchase a few of a new vintage and later think – I really wish I had left these on the shelf. Both of these were learning experiences that cost a total of $150. I'm okay with that. I have bought far more wines without tasting that have been fantastic choices.
I don't know if I really disagree with what you're saying, unless you really think it applies to us. I do think you have something to get off your chest and the fact that posturing it as a reply to our posts doesn't really work is merely an inconvenience. A separate thread about how much – in bottles and $$ -- people spend without tasting wine, and from what regions, would be interesting.
I'm not sure if 2005 Bordeaux is what you're talking about, but Bordeaux has come up in your posts. I would not be surprised if many "newbie" wine drinkers bought a bunch and will find out over the next 20 years its not their style. That's their lesson to learn and, assuming they had the funds to do it, they can probably handle it. I did buy split two six packs of 2005 Bordeaux with a friend - one right bank (Gigault Cuvee Viva) and one left bank (Caronne St Gemme). As it cost each of us $85, I'm not too worried.
I received this e-mail this morning from GaryV.
Now my question is this: What is the probability that an independent wine critic would say "The last 2005 Bordeaux you need to buy a case of"
while at the same time being the exclusive seller of that very same wine?
The answer in none. Any independent critic would instantly loose his or her credibility as an unbiased independent critic.
quote:The last 2005 Bordeaux you need to buy a case of
This is a special wine for me, a worldwide exclusive to Wine Library because of a very smart deal I put together when I went to Bordeaux last year! I don't have the liberty to score it since I was involved, but I was PUMPED that Stephen Tanzer reviewed the wine. Tanzer is a difficult critic and 90 - 93 points from him is an outstanding score, but in all honesty I was actually kinda disappointed and thought it was underrated, ESPECIALLY when I finally tasted it from the bottle. As you'll see in the video I believe this wine will last for 30+ years EASY and I am humbled to have been a part of this project.
Reasons to jump on this today:
The price of this wine will be rising to $49.99 on Monday!
Quality in the bottle equals what most $100 futures are tasting like right now.
This wine is being discussed in a thread on Robert Parker's boards.
This is a very rare opportunity given the small production... only 315 cases were made.
Given the price inflations and the way the 2005 demand has become, this may even be a wine you want to consider buying multiple cases of.
Now my question is this: What is the probability that an independent wine critic would say "The last 2005 Bordeaux you need to buy a case of"
while at the same time being the exclusive seller of that very same wine?
The answer in none. Any independent critic would instantly loose his or her credibility as an unbiased independent critic.
*YAWN*
quote:Originally posted by MorBorDo:
I received this e-mail this morning from GaryV.quote:The last 2005 Bordeaux you need to buy a case of
This is a special wine for me, a worldwide exclusive to Wine Library because of a very smart deal I put together when I went to Bordeaux last year! I don't have the liberty to score it since I was involved, but I was PUMPED that Stephen Tanzer reviewed the wine. Tanzer is a difficult critic and 90 - 93 points from him is an outstanding score, but in all honesty I was actually kinda disappointed and thought it was underrated, ESPECIALLY when I finally tasted it from the bottle. As you'll see in the video I believe this wine will last for 30+ years EASY and I am humbled to have been a part of this project.
Reasons to jump on this today:
The price of this wine will be rising to $49.99 on Monday!
Quality in the bottle equals what most $100 futures are tasting like right now.
This wine is being discussed in a thread on Robert Parker's boards.
This is a very rare opportunity given the small production... only 315 cases were made.
Given the price inflations and the way the 2005 demand has become, this may even be a wine you want to consider buying multiple cases of.
Now my question is this: What is the probability that an independent wine critic would say "The last 2005 Bordeaux you need to buy a case of"
while at the same time being the exclusive seller of that very same wine?
The answer in none. Any independent critic would instantly loose his or her credibility as an unbiased independent critic.
I'm a HUGE supporter of Gary, WLTV, AND Wine Library but I do find this statement to carry some weight. It certainly makes you think about it.
quote:Originally posted by wineismylife:
*YAWN*
Tired? You're yawning all over the place!
quote:I'm a HUGE supporter of Gary, WLTV, AND Wine Library but I do find this statement to carry some weight. It certainly makes you think about it.
Brandon,
We have several things in common then. I too am a big fan of GV and WLTV. I currently have a bit over $5,000 in 2005 Bdx futures on order from Wine Library including 12 x 75cl of Angelus which I bought after watching WLTV. I was sold by his passion for this wine. Others have rated it very highly.
dont forget Stephan Tanzer loved it and is a very VERY tough critic and gave it 90-93, I really think people will win by buying this wine, I understand I wear 2 hats and I always will and for that I will not apologize but will of course respect and FULLY understand where people are coming from, Brandon I think u know me, to question this is understandable and I respect that but I think u know who I am and I hope like with any person in this world you take them for the "proof in the pudding" I bought all this wine before Tanzer ever scored it because I thought it rocked, for ST the toughest critic out there to score this up to a 93 I think shows a lot, but of course everything is what and how you want to look at it. Stay well everyone, again those of you who have opinions about me that have never meet me please give me a chance to share some vino with you one day. Stay healthy all!
quote:Originally posted by Brandon M:quote:Originally posted by MorBorDo:
I received this e-mail this morning from GaryV.quote:The last 2005 Bordeaux you need to buy a case of
This is a special wine for me, a worldwide exclusive to Wine Library because of a very smart deal I put together when I went to Bordeaux last year! I don't have the liberty to score it since I was involved, but I was PUMPED that Stephen Tanzer reviewed the wine. Tanzer is a difficult critic and 90 - 93 points from him is an outstanding score, but in all honesty I was actually kinda disappointed and thought it was underrated, ESPECIALLY when I finally tasted it from the bottle. As you'll see in the video I believe this wine will last for 30+ years EASY and I am humbled to have been a part of this project.
Reasons to jump on this today:
The price of this wine will be rising to $49.99 on Monday!
Quality in the bottle equals what most $100 futures are tasting like right now.
This wine is being discussed in a thread on Robert Parker's boards.
This is a very rare opportunity given the small production... only 315 cases were made.
Given the price inflations and the way the 2005 demand has become, this may even be a wine you want to consider buying multiple cases of.
Now my question is this: What is the probability that an independent wine critic would say "The last 2005 Bordeaux you need to buy a case of"
while at the same time being the exclusive seller of that very same wine?
The answer in none. Any independent critic would instantly loose his or her credibility as an unbiased independent critic.
I'm a HUGE supporter of Gary, WLTV, AND Wine Library but I do find this statement to carry some weight. It certainly makes you think about it.
love your name, clever Thnx for the kind words and again I understand, I just want to do a good thing with WLTV but of course understand peoples views, makes much sense, heck I would think the same too, I just know whats going on here!
Thnx for the kind words and again I understand, I just want to do a good thing with WLTV but of course understand peoples views, makes much sense, heck I would think the same too, I just know whats going on here!quote:Originally posted by MorBorDo:quote:I'm a HUGE supporter of Gary, WLTV, AND Wine Library but I do find this statement to carry some weight. It certainly makes you think about it.
Brandon,
We have several things in common then. I too am a big fan of GV and WLTV. I currently have a bit over $5,000 in 2005 Bdx futures on order from Wine Library including 12 x 75cl of Angelus which I bought after watching WLTV. I was sold by his passion for this wine. Others have rated it very highly.
quote:this wine
After reading through this incredibly long chain, I felt compelled to post.
I think those who do not know GaryV are baffled at why the Vaynernation comes so quickly to his defense, but it is really very simple. Gary has done a tremendous job of becoming the voice of the people, something that I think has been squarely missing from the wine community.
I love Parker and WS as much as anyone and they serve a very specific role and excel in their respective areas. Gary is doing something they aren't doing. He is interfacing with the consumer in a very direct, targeted, highly immersive, and inclusive way. Most importantly he listens and responds.
As part-critic, part-retailer, part-wine rock star
he transcends the traditional box that everyone wants to lump him into. I think he's breaking new ground. His relatability, accessibility and ability to understand the value of the dollar (and that is because of, not in spite of, his retail experience) to me is an advantage to the consumer. He gets that to the average mid-level wine consumer that $25 a bottle is expensive and can provide a unique perspective.By getting people past entry level offerings and out of their wine comfort zones, he stirs up conversation, debate and hopefully grows interest and demand for good wine. I want more people to be exposed to the depth, complexity, variance and excitement that wine from around the world can offer. Maybe I'm an optimist, but I believe greater interest, purchasing power and demand for better wine will benefit the consumer in the long run.
To do that there is a lot of work to do. The biggest hurdle is to cut through all the snobbery and negative stereotypes that are attached to "wine" as a global brand. There is an intimidation factor or a "not for me" response that needs to be overcome by the casual or uninformed wine drinker. Finally someone is out there dispelling myths and encouraging people to have confidence in their own tasting abilities and opinions about wine.
I am happy that someone like Gary is around that understands the contemporary wine movement. The wine world is changing a lot faster than I think people realize. The world is getting smaller via media and I'm thankful that he's at the forefront helping to lead the charge.
Two bottles here or there isn't really what I'm getting at.
It's the folks who buy 6 of this, 12 of that, and before one knows it, they've spend a couple thousand on wine they've read about, or tried a few vintages back and they're simply going on blind faith that it will be to their liking. My simple argument is...give it a try. Even if you liked the previous vintage. There's no guarantee you'll like the next one. '97 and '98 Insignia are not the same wine. '02 and '03 Clos de Tart are not the same wine. '02 and '03 Guigal La La's are not the same....etc., etc.
It's the folks who buy 6 of this, 12 of that, and before one knows it, they've spend a couple thousand on wine they've read about, or tried a few vintages back and they're simply going on blind faith that it will be to their liking. My simple argument is...give it a try. Even if you liked the previous vintage. There's no guarantee you'll like the next one. '97 and '98 Insignia are not the same wine. '02 and '03 Clos de Tart are not the same wine. '02 and '03 Guigal La La's are not the same....etc., etc.
quote:I love Parker and WS as much as anyone and they serve a very specific role and excel in their respective areas. Gary is doing something they aren't doing. He is interfacing with the consumer in a very direct, targeted, highly immersive, and inclusive way. Most importantly he listens and responds.
I actually love Sucklings V-Blogs for the same reason. It's fun to see, hear, and interact.
quote:Originally posted by dr.darkrichandbold:
Two bottles here or there isn't really what I'm getting at.
It's the folks who buy 6 of this, 12 of that, and before one knows it, they've spend a couple thousand on wine they've read about, or tried a few vintages back and they're simply going on blind faith that it will be to their liking. My simple argument is...give it a try. Even if you liked the previous vintage. There's no guarantee you'll like the next one. '97 and '98 Insignia are not the same wine. '02 and '03 Clos de Tart are not the same wine. '02 and '03 Guigal La La's are not the same....etc., etc.
DRAB: Now we're on the same page! In a few years when I have a giant cellar integrated in my home, I'll begin buying by the case or more. At that point, I will definitely try everything first (when possible)!
quote:Wines and palates change over time (as you said yourself). How can you be sure the case of wine you bought today, that you love now, is still going to be a wine you enjoy in 5, 10, 20 years?
Because I've spent the past 11 years figuring out what I like, trying what I buy, and reconfiguring my cellar when I realize I don't really like certain things as much as the critics did when I bought them way back when. Or like certain things I liked in the beginning. I love Bordeaux and Burgundy, and I don't ever see that changing. They are the worlds greatest wines, IMHO. I may get into other things like Alsacian wines, or Barolo one day, but my love for Bordeaux and Burgundy will never change. Now....my love for their prices is a whole different story...and is rapidly making it so that I will not be able to purchase them anymore.
quote:Originally posted by Gary Vaynerchuk:
dont forget Stephan Tanzer loved it and is a very VERY tough critic and gave it 90-93, I really think people will win by buying this wine, I understand I wear 2 hats and I always will and for that I will not apologize but will of course respect and FULLY understand where people are coming from, Brandon I think u know me, to question this is understandable and I respect that but I think u know who I am and I hope like with any person in this world you take them for the "proof in the pudding" I bought all this wine before Tanzer ever scored it because I thought it rocked, for ST the toughest critic out there to score this up to a 93 I think shows a lot, but of course everything is what and how you want to look at it. Stay well everyone, again those of you who have opinions about me that have never meet me please give me a chance to share some vino with you one day. Stay healthy all!quote:Originally posted by Brandon M:quote:Originally posted by MorBorDo:
I received this e-mail this morning from GaryV.quote:The last 2005 Bordeaux you need to buy a case of
This is a special wine for me, a worldwide exclusive to Wine Library because of a very smart deal I put together when I went to Bordeaux last year! I don't have the liberty to score it since I was involved, but I was PUMPED that Stephen Tanzer reviewed the wine. Tanzer is a difficult critic and 90 - 93 points from him is an outstanding score, but in all honesty I was actually kinda disappointed and thought it was underrated, ESPECIALLY when I finally tasted it from the bottle. As you'll see in the video I believe this wine will last for 30+ years EASY and I am humbled to have been a part of this project.
Reasons to jump on this today:
The price of this wine will be rising to $49.99 on Monday!
Quality in the bottle equals what most $100 futures are tasting like right now.
This wine is being discussed in a thread on Robert Parker's boards.
This is a very rare opportunity given the small production... only 315 cases were made.
Given the price inflations and the way the 2005 demand has become, this may even be a wine you want to consider buying multiple cases of.
Now my question is this: What is the probability that an independent wine critic would say "The last 2005 Bordeaux you need to buy a case of"
while at the same time being the exclusive seller of that very same wine?
The answer in none. Any independent critic would instantly loose his or her credibility as an unbiased independent critic.
I'm a HUGE supporter of Gary, WLTV, AND Wine Library but I do find this statement to carry some weight. It certainly makes you think about it.
I said that the statement carries some weight and makes you think about it, I didn't say I was thinking THAT hard about it! :-)
I've always said that if you knew Gary and hung out with him the way I have, you really wouldn't question it. There will always be doubters. C'est la Vie!
This email is no different than the hundreds of emails that have been sent over the past two years. It's designed to sell wine and may employ some hyperbole to that end. It should not detract from the fact that Gary is truly passionate in his "love" for all matters regarding wine, and his interest in spreading the word and including those who might consider themselves currently disenfranchised.
quote:Originally posted by Brandon M:quote:Originally posted by wineismylife:
*YAWN*
Tired? You're yawning all over the place!
Well maybe you should stop posting, then.
quote:Originally posted by latour67:This is a strange thread! I've read Wine Spectator and Robert Parker for many years---20+! I'm not familiar with Gary, or WLTV!
Don't worry. You aren't missing much. Gary is no different than anyone of us posters here who is just as passionate about wine as we all are. He just gets to sell the stuff and give his opinion on the wines that he sells.
Some people think that tasting tasting non-blind AND selling the stuff is a good basis for being declared as a wine critic.
quote:Originally posted by ChrisR:
Maybe I'm an optimist, but I believe greater interest, purchasing power and demand for better wine will benefit the consumer in the long run.
To do that there is a lot of work to do. The biggest hurdle is to cut through all the snobbery and negative stereotypes that are attached to "wine" as a global brand. There is an intimidation factor or a "not for me" response that needs to be overcome by the casual or uninformed wine drinker. Finally someone is out there dispelling myths and encouraging people to have confidence in their own tasting abilities and opinions about wine.
I am happy that someone like Gary is around that understands the contemporary wine movement. The wine world is changing a lot faster than I think people realize. The world is getting smaller via media and I'm thankful that he's at the forefront helping to lead the charge.
That was a very good first post.
quote:Originally posted by ChrisR:
I am happy that someone like Gary is around that understands the contemporary wine movement.
ChrisR,
Interesting post.
Could you expound on the understands the contemporary wine movement statement?
w+a
quote:Originally posted by wine+art:quote:Originally posted by ChrisR:
I am happy that someone like Gary is around that understands the contemporary wine movement.
ChrisR,
Interesting post.
Could you expound on the understands the contemporary wine movement statement?
w+a
Be vewy kafo how you answer this question ChrisR (picturing mouse sniffing at cheese)
quote:Originally posted by wine+art:quote:Originally posted by ChrisR:
I am happy that someone like Gary is around that understands the contemporary wine movement.
ChrisR,
Interesting post.
Could you expound on the understands the contemporary wine movement statement?
w+a
I think its the waiting list at Ghost Horse World.
But seriously, words like "movement," attitudes like the people over at X are Y, etc. are for politics, and even then they are often trite.
People need not be snobby. When they are, they can be easily ignored, because it is, after all, only wine and not social security or health care. I really see no need to start joining movements and forming groups.
Wine is not something to belong to.
quote:Originally posted by Montsant:
ChrisR,
Interesting post.
Could you expound on the understands the contemporary wine movement statement?
w+a
I think its the waiting list at Ghost Horse World.
But seriously, words like "movement," attitudes like the people over at X are Y, etc. are for politics, and even then they are often trite.
People need not be snobby. When they are, they can be easily ignored, because it is, after all, only wine and not social security or health care. I really see no need to start joining movements and forming groups.
Wine is not something to belong to.[/QUOTE]
That said, it is the essence of said space, not the space surrounding said wine, no?
WOW.
Thus, it is without debate about the negative space.
We are indeed on the same page.
We are indeed on the same page.
I took it exactly opposite.
The 'movement', is against Ghost Horse's schtick, which is the most extreme form of a wine marketing mantra that started when Robert slugged Peter and reached it's peek, well now.
Calling it a movement, may be a bit much, but the marketplace is shifting. It's getting younger, female, and cares less about ratings, luxury appeal, and 'power'.
My mailing list is over 40% female, and probably 60% under 40. (From what I can tell) That demographic would shock most Napa mailing lists. Honestly I don't know how it happened, but it's not what one would expect. Something is changing, and consumers are looking for new and different voices, who connect better with them and why they drink wine.
The 'movement', is against Ghost Horse's schtick, which is the most extreme form of a wine marketing mantra that started when Robert slugged Peter and reached it's peek, well now.
Calling it a movement, may be a bit much, but the marketplace is shifting. It's getting younger, female, and cares less about ratings, luxury appeal, and 'power'.
My mailing list is over 40% female, and probably 60% under 40. (From what I can tell) That demographic would shock most Napa mailing lists. Honestly I don't know how it happened, but it's not what one would expect. Something is changing, and consumers are looking for new and different voices, who connect better with them and why they drink wine.
quote:Originally posted by Stefania Wine:
My mailing list is over 40% female, and probably 60% under 40.
I think it's the Haut Tubee mystique that draws 'em in.
quote:Originally posted by Stefania Wine:
The 'movement', is against Ghost Horse's schtick, which is the most extreme form of a wine marketing mantra that started when Robert slugged Peter and reached it's peek, well now.
Calling it a movement, may be a bit much, but the marketplace is shifting. It's getting younger, female, and cares less about ratings, luxury appeal, and 'power'.
My mailing list is over 40% female, and probably 60% under 40. (From what I can tell) That demographic would shock most Napa mailing lists. Honestly I don't know how it happened, but it's not what one would expect. Something is changing, and consumers are looking for new and different voices, who connect better with them and why they drink wine.
ok. to be clear, whatever the "modern wine movement" is, it would seem to have little, if anything, in common with Ghost Horse World. While I don't think there's anything to fret over with GHW, I'd rather pop a bottle or two with this movement thing, including a bottle of this Bordeaux gary's pushing.
My point was that whether you call your version of a hobby a movement or whether you sell (albeit partly facetiously) the privilege to "belong," both of this is too clubby for my tastes, too us vs. them. People can almost be snobbish about how much they are not snobs.
That wine demographics are changing is great. It makes sense that retail shops and wineries would cater to that in their merchandising and marketing. But to speak of this as a movement, to me, misses the point.
I'm rambling. I've just never been a joiner. I don't trust movements on grave, nobel-prize things, much less something so perfectly enjoyable as a glass of wine.
Just my two cents.