TN: 2005 Ch. Monbousquet

I've been a hot/cold fan of the Perse lineup from vintage to vintage, but this is one to satisfy any Bordeaux lover. Delicious wine. Dark black macerated cherry, mocha, toasty oak, sweet wet earth, and cigar and baking spices. Full bodied, deep blood red/black color, and a long finish. This is the best Monbousquet I've had. 95 pts.
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by dr.darkrichandbold:
I've been a hot/cold fan of the Perse lineup from vintage to vintage, but this is one to satisfy any Bordeaux lover. Delicious wine. Dark black macerated cherry, mocha, toasty oak, sweet wet earth, and cigar and baking spices. Full bodied, deep blood red/black color, and a long finish. This is the best Monbousquet I've had. 95 pts.


have you've had the 00' monbousquet?

how would you compare?
quote:
have you've had the 00' monbousquet?


Yes....I like this better. For me the '05 has better balance of tannin and acid, it's less forward, and more likely to age.

Don't get me wrong though...this is still very primary and will need age to bring out secondary character, but I'll be honest, there's nothing to not like about it now too...
quote:
Originally posted by dr.darkrichandbold:
Don't get me wrong though...this is still very primary and will need age to bring out secondary character, but I'll be honest, there's nothing to not like about it now too...


This is a joke, right? Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

Otherwise, HOW DARE YOU SPLIT AN INFINITIVE?!?!?!?!!!!!

Razz

Great TN, DRAB
quote:
Originally posted by Jfont:
I don't know Board-O. I'm a newby when it comes to wine though I've tasted lots these past few years. But, I've always liked Monbousquet...

Jfont, Board-O is referring to the fact that this is an 2005, not that it is Monbousquet.
Is the joke that there is no way to predict that this is the best Monbousquet that drab has had, or that tasting this early is a waste of a bottle and makes no sense? Or is Board-o suggesting that the characteristics that drab has noted are unlikely to be present?

I understand Board-o's occasional concern about drinking wines too early, but dont the pros taste wines early, give them ratings, rank them in the history of other vintages of the same wines, and make predictions regarding their ageworthiness and expected date range of maturity...and is this not the most practical way to determine whether wines are good/will be good/should be purchased? Pros give such notes while wines are in the barrel, far from maturity.

Further, if we have purchased based in part on the reviews of the pros, is it wrong if we pop some bottles to see if we agree (and if not, sell them/return them to the store)? These things make sense to me (within reason), so I really don't know what Board-o is questioning, which is why I asked. Is it because drab has been popping open cases full of babies recently? Its not like popping an 05 monbousquet is a big waste (I have 6, I might have been tempted to pop one, but reading notes of others will either prevent me from doing so, or possibly lead me to return them all to the LCBO and get 100% of my money back).

I popped a 2004 Solaia and was extremely disappointed...so I will return the other 2 or 3 that I have to the LCBO; glad I tasted it, was absolutely not in line with tasting notes that I have read (in any way), so maybe just from a case/store that did not treat them properly, maybe had problems while in transit from Italy to Toronto, who knows, but it was not great..drank over 3 days, nothing special on day 1, 2, or 3. That lead me to pop a 2004 Ornellaia, which I found to be everything that the Solaia was not, I will keep my other 3 Ornellaia (and let them lie down for a long time) and makes me mad that I returned 2 bottles of it already to purchase something else a while back.

Tasting now is a waste of a bottle, but maybe prevents future disappointment/future wastes of multiple bottles (for those of us that can return the rest of the wine we did not enjoy...would not be easy to wait 10 years and then try to return it) and add to future enjoyment (for those of us that really like something and buy it now for current prices, not easy to buy more 10 years from now, with questionable provenance and highly inflated prices). Maybe this makes more sense for someone living in Ontario, with LCBO prices, and LCBO return policies...who knows.
Machine...

Let's just say you get it and Board-O doesn't.

It comes down to two things:

1. Trust your own palate for what YOU like.

2. If you're going to cellar wine, make sure you're cellaring something that interests YOU....not Robert Parker, James Suckling, or an egomaniac like Board-O. It's great if they like it too, but at the end of the day they're not the ones in charge of your own cellar.

Pretty simple if you asked me.
quote:
Originally posted by dr.darkrichandbold:
Machine...

Let's just say you get it and Board-O doesn't.

It comes down to two things:

1. Trust your own palate for what YOU like.

2. If you're going to cellar wine, make sure you're cellaring something that interests YOU....not Robert Parker, James Suckling, or an egomaniac like Board-O. It's great if they like it too, but at the end of the day they're not the ones in charge of your own cellar.

Pretty simple if you asked me.


I agree with the tasting method and timing because it just makes sense to me, but I don't know if I get it vs. Board-o not getting it, because what I was posting about is that I don't get what Board-o thinks was the problem with your post (seriously, I am not criticizing anyone, this is not tongue-in-cheek, I just don't get what the joke is/what was wrong with your post).

Re. the critics and monbousquet, I have had the 1999, 2000, and 2001 monbo, did not particularly care for the 99 or 01, but loved the 2000 (have only had it twice, at 11 Madison). Lovely powerful aroma, excellent balance (to me), and even though only 8 years old I thought I tasted a few secondary characteristics, but I am no expert on those...but what does shock me is that James Suckling rated this wine 89, very different from Parker's 95 (I would give it 94-95 also). I understand differences in taste preferences etc., but really could not come up with anything in this wine that would justify an 89 point rating.

Geez, the price of this one in Canada kills me...I bought for $85 and $97.97 in the last 8 months from a few sellers (MW Sales, and PJ's)....current price in Canada, where re-selling does not take place: $286 per 750. For the price of a 6-pack in Canada, I could buy 6 from PJ's plus 2 round-trip flights from Toronto to NYC and 2 nights at a well located midtown hotel. Sickening...but probably enough off-topic and enough monbousquet discussion for now.
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
That from someone who thinks drinking tannic, closed wines is sensible. Roll Eyes Of course, he is the first person to post tasting notes on them.


I will admit once again, I love tannin in wine, I remember chewing on grape stems after I finished my grapes when I was a child. I really enjoyed many of the wines that we tried at the 2005 UGC tasting. I could drink them all right now and love them, so I suppose I also love youthful (but balanced) fruit. As for closed wines, I don't really like the term closed, I don't think it makes sense, but I agree that drinking wines in that 'stage' is disappointing...but from what I have read (not from experience, because I have little to none), 'closed' may be more appropriately described as the stage after which youthful expressive fruitiness has disappeared, and before mature secondary characteristics have appeared (vs. there is fruit there today, then the fruit is gone for several years, then the fruit comes back...which seems to be another definition of 'closed'). I would not want to drink a tannic closed wine, but I do like tannic youthful wines, and moderately tannic moderately mature wines...and little/no experience with mature wines...most mature wine that I had was a 1974 Diamond Creek Volcanic Hill Cab...very 'wow' to me, and a few mid-90's bordeaux which were probably too young (but some were enjoyable, a few 95's (les forts, good ole lanessan), but what do I know...though the 96's I had needed more time, or were simply no good (leo poy, les forts, pichon baron I think).

Even with the above sad admissions, can it be said that there is no value in tasting wines young to try to assess whether they fit your tasting preferences or possess the structure that the taster may be looking for before buying more (or before deciding whether to sell his existing stock)? If drab drinks though his entire supply of 05 Monbo in the next year, that would be a different story...but why trust the pros if you can afford to taste yourself? I don't have the experience to know, which is why I want to know what the joke is.
quote:
Originally posted by Machine:
..but why trust the pros if you can afford to taste yourself? I don't have the experience to know, which is why I want to know what the joke is.


While not disagreeing with you on your post, but at what point in time do you say "Okay I've tried enough wines young to know it's not worth it to open them early". And then seeing that the pros are pros at wine and tell you drinking windows, why wouldn't you want to heed their advice?
If you love tannic, closed wines, as drab does, then by all means drink them. If you have no concept of a wine in its prime when it has developed the complexity and depth that mature wines possess, as is the case with drab, then tannic, closed wines are for you. To those of us who do understand what a wonderful transformation lies ahead for some of these tannic, closed wines, it seems such a shame to waste them. When someone continually drinks tannic, closed wines and proclaims their greatness, as drab does, I can only shake my head in disbelief that he never learns.

As far as evaluation goes, take a look at the way the professionals, whose palates are somewhat respected, keep revising, often drastically so, their intial predictions of a given wine's evolution. Look at how Parker gave up on trying to evaluate young Burgundy. He was horrible at it. drab has no idea of what these wines can become because he has no experience with mature wines. Yes, the whole situation is a joke to me. A little sad also. Furethermore, he's misleading people, especially the newbies.
quote:
Originally posted by seanr7:
Drab,

Next time Board-O decides to jump on one of your TN's before you respond remember what George Bernard Shaw once said. "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."


IS THIS A JOKE?
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by Machine:
..but why trust the pros if you can afford to taste yourself? I don't have the experience to know, which is why I want to know what the joke is.


While not disagreeing with you on your post, but at what point in time do you say "Okay I've tried enough wines young to know it's not worth it to open them early". And then seeing that the pros are pros at wine and tell you drinking windows, why wouldn't you want to heed their advice?


I will find that point, would love to find that point actually, but just starting to try bordeaux, at 2005 tasting my notes matched up with Jeff Leve (for example) to a great degree, but with some distinct outliers compared to all others...outliers confuse me (pontet canet and clos fourtet for example...I kept what I ordered but did not get much at all out of them...but loved larcis ducasse, troplong mondot, pape clement, pavie mac), will take 15 years for me to get the answer to the pontet canet/clos fourtet questions, but can hopefully backfill my knowledge with similar information in the interim. Hard to know who to listed to at this early stage in my experience...and 2000 monbousquet (with 95 parker and 89 suckling) emphasizes this point...so need a bit more time/tasting to work things out.
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
If you love tannic, closed wines, as drab does, then by all means drink them. If you have no concept of a wine in its prime when it has developed the complexity and depth that mature wines possess, as is the case with drab, then tannic, closed wines are for you. To those of us who do understand what a wonderful transformation lies ahead for some of these tannic, closed wines, it seems such a shame to waste them. When someone continually drinks tannic, closed wines and proclaims their greatness, as drab does, I can only shake my head in disbelief that he never learns.

As far as evaluation goes, take a look at the way the professionals, whose palates are somewhat respected, keep revising, often drastically so, their intial predictions of a given wine's evolution. Look at how Parker gave up on trying to evaluate young Burgundy. He was horrible at it. drab has no idea of what these wines can become because he has no experience with mature wines. Yes, the whole situation is a joke to me. A little sad also. Furethermore, he's misleading people, especially the newbies.


I don't love tannic closed wines, hope that did not come across from my post. Tannic youthful wines can be proclaimed to be great tannic youthful wines and can be said to have great potential, that is what the pros might say (at least the second half)...if someone like them tannic and youthful then great, if someone wastes dozens/hundreds of bottles proving the same point to themselves over and over again then I completely see your point. Hopefully you will forgive me for (a) still loving tannic youthful wines, and (b) trying to test out younger wines to learn what they are like and align my palate with some more experienced tasters/tasting notes, so that I can be more confident letting the entire case lie for the future, instead of just 11 bottles.

As I said, the 1974 volcanic hill cab that I tried was 'wow' for both wife and I, nose was spectacular, taste was spectacular, balance and finish were spectacular...I would love to find another bottle of that, and hope that experience is what I can look forward to when my 05 bordeaux approach maturity.
quote:
Originally posted by GreenDrazi:
Machine,
You are generally on the right path. Ignore the flak from the hacks. The pros recommend you try your wines young as do most reasonable experienced wine lovers.

See my sig below.


Good sig...did see Laube's contraversial scribblings re. aged wines (i.e. 'aging does not improve wines')...surprised it did not get more discussion, but perhaps such discussion would only be worthy of a critic with a following.

Can't afford to drink many of mine young, most of my friends don't understand why anyone would pay more than $20 for a bottle of wine, makes it tough to get 10 people together to try 10 young bottles (to determine which I might like to purchase/keep).
quote:
While not disagreeing with you on your post, but at what point in time do you say "Okay I've tried enough wines young to know it's not worth it to open them early". And then seeing that the pros are pros at wine and tell you drinking windows, why wouldn't you want to heed their advice?


Big mistake here. NEVER take the critics word for it. And...even they tell you this! Use them as a guide. Just because you've had half a dozen vintages of a any given wine doesn't mean you're going to like them all, or want to cellar them all. Vintages are different. Styles change. Winemakers change. Owners change. Practices change. Reviewers change! The wines at your local retailer that were sitting in customs for 3 days before being stocked on the shelf may not taste like the reviews you're reading. If anything, it's good to taste the samples you're buying (if possible)! How else do you know what you're getting yourself into? Your only true guide for your palate is yourself. You owe it to yourself to know you're spending your own money wisely. Unless, you don't know the difference, or don't care to know. Then, by all means, buy what someone else points you toward. And, if your argument is that you can't afford to buy and try, then you probably shouldn't be buying in the first place.

And, if you think like Board-O is suggesting, that every young wine out there is "closed" and "tannic" and that's it...then you simply have no clue about fine wine. And, if after all of these years of trying wine, he's gotten himself to the level of having no clue about a wine until it's finally at "perfect maturity", then I'd say he's gone NOWHERE, and learned NOTHING.
quote:
To those of us who do understand what a wonderful transformation lies ahead for some of these tannic, closed wines, it seems such a shame to waste them. When someone continually drinks tannic, closed wines and proclaims their greatness, as drab does, I can only shake my head in disbelief that he never learns.


The fact of the matter is that I drink more great young and mature wine than you, and you're jealous about it. You just choose to highlight the young, and fight about it. Maybe you should stop wasting time fighting, and start offering something interesting and thought provoking.

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