I recently had the unplesant experience of attending a time share presentaion. I believed in the concept, but thought the developer price was outrageous. Doing some on-line research it looks like I can buy a resale unit for 35%-40% of the developer price. Anyone have expereice with this? What are the "traps" I should avoid?
Original Post
Had a collegue once who scoured the net for opportunities to buy high end time shares on the cheap. Swore by them, that they allowed him and his family to vacation cheap.

The idea just never made sense to me, honestly.
I've never believed in owning real estate with hundreds of people. Partnerships often leave little money left when it's time to cash out. Biggest money typically goes to the promoters and management (property & partnership).
quote:
Originally posted by Redline325:
What are the "traps" I should avoid?


Time shares are the traps to avoid. Don't even consider it. You'll be stuck going to the same place, which will be come boring, or you can have the "fun" of trying to trade time shares with some one else, or the joy of trying to unload yours when you realize what a mistake it was.

Don't waste your money. Spend it on a vacation to someplace new and exciting every years.
My parents bought a timeshare in Malta, several years ago.
It worked well for them for a while, but now they are older and my dad can't fly.
They still have 7 years left on their timeshare, but they can't even give it away.
They have told the company to take it back, they won't pay the annual maintenance fee any longer.

I know people who love them, but they have the ones that they can trade with other people and go somewhere else.

As for me, I can't afford a vacation at home, let alone a timeshare.
quote:
Originally posted by Redline325:
I recently had the unplesant experience of attending a time share presentaion...the developer price was outrageous. Doing some on-line research it looks like I can buy a resale unit for 35%-40% of the developer price.


I hope you at least got something good for having to sit thru one of those god-awful presentations. I did that several years ago for a "free" trip to Vegas. Roll Eyes Never again.

If you do plan on buying, that would be the way to do it. Just as a new car loses a huge chunk of it's value the minute you drive it off the lot, so too do time shares. With the markets currently in the dumper, and people desperate for liquidity, now would be a great time to buy. Provided of course, that you factor in the volatile airfare market if it is someplace far away. I don't think anyone is sure yet of how that's going to shake out in the new economy.
I concur with everyone here. Terrible investment and not fun unless you like going to same place for vacation every year.

100% ABSOLUTELY DO NOT BUY ONE NEW!!!! If you have to have one, they are alwasy available on the resale market for about 25 cents on the dollar.
I've also had the pleasure of attending a presentation. Not the best use of time.

My parents have a couple..one in Orlando and one in the Poconos in Pa. They love the one in the Poconos, because it's in an area that they enjoy going to every year and it's an easy drive for them.

They are thinking about selling the one in Orlando, and were mad at all of us kids when none of us wanted it. By the time that you pay all of the maintenance fees, trading fees, etc, you can pretty much go where ever you like for about the same price. Plus, as others have said, if you buy one, don't plan on getting any money back when you sell it.

One thing that you sometimes can do though is to rent them pretty reasonably.
Hummmm.....seems pretty lopsided that timeshares are a bad idea! The concept of buying in a very down market seems like a decent enough idea. Say I spend $8,000...I'd look at my annual cost in lost interest income (5% corp bond return, less 33% tax)=$268 + maintience of $700 + $129 fees = $1,097 per year for 7 nights, or $156 a night. The place I saw was a Marriott, nice enough..sounded like I could trade weeks with the other Marriott locations easy enough....

At $156 a night I would break even on my $8,000 initial fee in say 12 years? ($250 avg. Marriott vacation destination room) $250-$156 = $94 savings per night + 7 nights a year= $658 saved a year. I'm 32 right now so will get the use out of it.

Am I looking at this right?
I think I've been to 3 presentations over the years. One in Vermont was for free ski resort lift tickets, one in Orlando was for free Disney tickets, and one in Whistler, BC, was for a free dinner. Damn near bit on the one in Vermont, but I was young and stupid back them. The one in Orlando was the most entertaining. We knew what was going to happen, so we just sat back and "played" them as each manager came out and tried to convince us to buy, until they got downright rude and called us all kinds of names because we were turning down such an unbelievably "awesome" opportunity. "Gosh, sir, we were almost ready to buy on the spot until we heard there were alligators in your lake." Razz
Fortunately, we got our Disney tickets without much hassle, so it was worth our time. The Whistler one pissed me off because we were very clear that we had children when they signed us up for the tour, and then at the end they said there were no children allowed. So when my wife got indignant and walked out, that apparently negated our right to the free dinner coupon. Never again.

My brother has a time share in Orlando, but to my knowledge he never uses it. Rentals pay for his maintenance fee, but that's about it. On the other hand, I have a sister in Scotland who had great luck, getting in early on the first timeshare development in the Highlands, which actually appreciated in value. She was able to trade up, and actually ended up with timeshares in both Scotland and Spain as part of the bargain--and she still uses them both.
quote:
Originally posted by Redline325:
The place I saw was a Marriott, nice enough..sounded like I could trade weeks with the other Marriott locations easy enough....

I'm 32 right now so will get the use out of it.

Am I looking at this right?


Yes, but....

The trading isn't as easy as Marriott makes it out to be - especially if you want to go to a high destination place (like Hawaii) and where you are thinking about buying isn't as high a destination.

If you do trade, you will need to go through Interval International, and there are more fees there.

Ours is a Marriott in Palm Desert. Sounded like a great deal at the time. It is a neat resort, with a real nice golf course, and great amenities, but when the kids came, the trips stopped.

And like others advised, DO NOT BUY NEW!!!

And (just for you danny) if you are interested in Palm Desert, let me know.... Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Redline325:
I'm 32 right now so will get the use out of it.

Am I looking at this right?

Redline-
Do you really think that you're going to want to go to the same Hotel for 12+ years!?
Trust me. You're likely quite different now than when you were 20yrs old.
Your tastes will be quite different again when you're 44!

And forget about the 'can trade for other comparable locations'. I've always heard people talk about it but only knew 1 who actually was able to pull it off with any success.

Just a couple more things to consider.....
quote:
Originally posted by KSC02:
quote:
Originally posted by Redline325:
I'm 32 right now so will get the use out of it.

Am I looking at this right?

Redline-
Do you really think that you're going to want to go to the same Hotel for 12+ years!?
Trust me. You're likely quite different now than when you were 20yrs old.
Your tastes will be quite different again when you're 44!

And forget about the 'can trade for other comparable locations'. I've always heard people talk about it but only knew 1 who actually was able to pull it off with any success.

Just a couple more things to consider.....


I totally agree on not wanting to go to the same spot every year (unless they had one in Napa Valley, don't think I could ever get tried of that!) The only way this is of any interest to me is if I could go somewhere different just about ever year. Of course they say you can trade locations no problem....I don't completely believe them, but the truth has to lie somewhere in between....
quote:
Originally posted by Dom'n'Vin'sDad:
quote:
Originally posted by Redline325:
The place I saw was a Marriott, nice enough..sounded like I could trade weeks with the other Marriott locations easy enough....

I'm 32 right now so will get the use out of it.

Am I looking at this right?


Yes, but....

The trading isn't as easy as Marriott makes it out to be - especially if you want to go to a high destination place (like Hawaii) and where you are thinking about buying isn't as high a destination.

If you do trade, you will need to go through Interval International, and there are more fees there.

Ours is a Marriott in Palm Desert. Sounded like a great deal at the time. It is a neat resort, with a real nice golf course, and great amenities, but when the kids came, the trips stopped.

And like others advised, DO NOT BUY NEW!!!

And (just for you danny) if you are interested in Palm Desert, let me know.... Wink


Thanks for the advice....the presentation I went to was the Grand Chateau in Las Vegas. They wanted $19,900 for 1 bedroom...of course that's a terrible deal but they seem to go for $7k or $8k on resale...maybe I could snag one for less. Would Las Vegas trade well? How can I tell what trades well?
quote:
Originally posted by Winetech:
I've also had the pleasure of attending a presentation. Not the best use of time.

My parents have a couple..one in Orlando and one in the Poconos in Pa. They love the one in the Poconos, because it's in an area that they enjoy going to every year and it's an easy drive for them.

They are thinking about selling the one in Orlando, and were mad at all of us kids when none of us wanted it. By the time that you pay all of the maintenance fees, trading fees, etc, you can pretty much go where ever you like for about the same price. Plus, as others have said, if you buy one, don't plan on getting any money back when you sell it.

One thing that you sometimes can do though is to rent them pretty reasonably.



Exactly...who the hell wants to visit Orlando? Its a damn Tourist Ghetto!!
quote:
Originally posted by Redline325:

Thanks for the advice....the presentation I went to was the Grand Chateau in Las Vegas. They wanted $19,900 for 1 bedroom...of course that's a terrible deal but they seem to go for $7k or $8k on resale...maybe I could snag one for less. Would Las Vegas trade well? How can I tell what trades well?


Wait till Vegas turns around...hard to find bottom. Like Orlando...Its a Tourist Ghetto...it just has gambling too!!
quote:
Originally posted by Redline325:
Thanks for the advice....the presentation I went to was the Grand Chateau in Las Vegas. They wanted $19,900 for 1 bedroom...of course that's a terrible deal but they seem to go for $7k or $8k on resale...maybe I could snag one for less. Would Las Vegas trade well? How can I tell what trades well?
If you are going to Vegas, just stay in a hotel. Even in peak season you can always find deals. Plus there is no way I could spend an entire week in Vegas. I would come back broke, fat and diseased. 2 nights is my limit…..
quote:
Originally posted by Redline325:
Thanks for the advice....the presentation I went to was the Grand Chateau in Las Vegas. They wanted $19,900 for 1 bedroom...of course that's a terrible deal but they seem to go for $7k or $8k on resale...maybe I could snag one for less. Would Las Vegas trade well? How can I tell what trades well?


You are welcome. And Vegas would be just about the last place I would buy - even "used" at a discount. I am a little tougher than than GlennK though. My limit is three nights....
I have some clients that own 3-4 of them, they love their timeshares.

I bought one on resale market years ago for $6,500, new they were selling for $18K. We had it on RCI and exchanged time for places all over the world. A little hassle getting time otherplaces and air fares to the location. Ended up selling it to my brother for 6K and he loves it. Within easy driving distance of his home and he gets lots of bonus time at dirt cheap rates. So for us it really did work out. Just don't pay retail!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Chilepepper:
quote:
Originally posted by Winetech:
I've also had the pleasure of attending a presentation. Not the best use of time.

My parents have a couple..one in Orlando and one in the Poconos in Pa. They love the one in the Poconos, because it's in an area that they enjoy going to every year and it's an easy drive for them.

They are thinking about selling the one in Orlando, and were mad at all of us kids when none of us wanted it. By the time that you pay all of the maintenance fees, trading fees, etc, you can pretty much go where ever you like for about the same price. Plus, as others have said, if you buy one, don't plan on getting any money back when you sell it.

One thing that you sometimes can do though is to rent them pretty reasonably.



Exactly...who the hell wants to visit Orlando? Its a damn Tourist Ghetto!!
Yeah, especially the end of January..It's a cold tourist ghetto at that. Razz

That also leads to another consideration about trading. It's not just the location, but the time of year that you own. The ones that I've seen are premium, high, low, off-season, etc, and you have to consider that as well. My parent's have had quite a bit of luck trading, but it's not a sure thing and not always where they want to go, or the type of unit that they want. I would expect that Vegas would list as "high or premium" year round, but I seriously doubt that it would trade for that. In addition, if you keep with the $159/night you can pretty easily get a place on the strip for less then that. I regularly get offers from the Wynn or Venician at around $100/night and I don't gamble there much.

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