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i'll start the argument.

how do you determine pay? isn't $50k/year in tuition and fees a decent salary for an 18-year-old who may or may not be any good? what about reggie bush vs the 3rd string nose tackle who won't play a day after he graduates from college? do they make the same amount? do football players make $300k while tennis players don't make anything? how about baseball players? somewhere in the middle?

that has a few problems, too.

first, kids will only pursue sports that pay - not ones that don't. goodbye track, tennis, swimming, lacrosse, soccer, etc etc.

second, you're favoring big schools now. schools with large receipts. Prepare for dynasties from the 3 or 4 largest schools. Nobody else stands a chance, player and athlete development of anything but the very very best goes down the drain.

i'm playing devil's advocate. i think it's terrible that these kids generate so much cash and only make $20k - $55k per year, but paying active collegiate athletes is not the solution. and frankly, i don't see a solution. maybe some sort of program for alumni athletes or something, but flat out paying student athletes just doesn't work out in a practical sense.

oh, and don't get me wrong. the NCAA may very well be the largest most awful bureaucracy on the face of this earth, bar none. i just don't see a practical solution to the problem.
Last edited by jorgerunfast
I think the NFL should create it's own farm league. Then the issue would be solved.

The moment they start paying the players is when I think much of our attention will shift to the traditional college programs where the players are true amateurs. Because once the top college players are paid, they become nothing more than AA minor leaguers.

Granted, the hype and the fervor for the true college game would be decreased. You would lose the passion of all the Wall-Mart worshipers of the big colleges, who really have little reason to root for the teams they choose, other than maybe living in the same state, or having a great uncle go there for a semester back in the 60's.
as always just follow the money and the answers start to come into focus.

while the NFL would love a farm system, it just wouldn't garner the TV contracts that the NCAA gets. (you don't see much minor league baseball being broadcast nationally).

Theres obviously plenty of $$ to spread around to actually pay the athletes, but whos going to take less then, the colleges. Considering the vast majority of the major schools generating the TV contract dollars are public schools, cutting into that pie will just increase the $$ they need from their state governments, which is you and I. So there won't be much interest in making that happen.

Considering the athletes have virtually no representation in this I see very little changing.

Potential changes:
could the players unionize?
are there right-to-work avenues that could be pursued with the NFL? Why do I need to be 20yrs old to be drafted, Baseball, Tennis, Hocky, and Soccer players are signing professional contracts at or before age 18, why am I not allowed the same opportunity since I play Football (or basketball as well).
What is the downside for the NFL to start a small farm system to let some of best college talent develop those first 2-3 years? Reduced hype from those seniors coming out may negatively impact Draft viewership and mute the pre-season excite for the teams that would have drafted those guys. However, they'll have fewer Jamarcus Russels and other players getting paid tens of millions of dollars and not producing anything, which is probably more destructive to their profits. It would be political suicide with the NCAA, but I don't know how much they comisserate in the first place, and those college teams have pretty well connected booster networks that may have no qualms intfering with local stadium funding bills if they felt the NFL was hurting college football.
NCAA is like IOC.

The players get paid, sponsorships etc. There is no amateur sport any more. Not even golf where the amateurs receive balls etc. At least they do not receive winnings.

Love the idea of a farm league. At least then the schools can then devote their time to education. IMHO many of the ‘jocks’ do not get much of an education, leave without a degree or get one in PT. [Personal experience from under grad and grad school that is in the big Ten]. Yes I do not feel that PSU should be in the Big Ten. Mad

The scholarships are very high payment, and in fact should be declared on the income tax form. That will really sharpen up the NCAA.
Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by Wine Sparty:
quote:
Originally posted by Redhawk:
all the Wall-Mart worshipers of the big colleges, who really have little reason to root for the teams they choose, other than maybe living in the same state, or having a great uncle go there for a semester back in the 60's.

Hmmm, did you have any particular school in mind? Big Grin


I used "worshipers" because any word that begins with W just flows so well after the word "Wallmart". I thought for the sake of discussion, I would keep it generic, but you can read into it what you want Wink.
quote:
Originally posted by Ed Bowers:

IMHO many of the ‘jocks’ do not get much of an education, leave without a degree or get one in PT. [Personal experience from under grad and grad school that is in the big Ten].

I don't know. It seems that the educational resources available to an athlete are amazing. I can only imagine what my college GPA would be if I had assistant coaches breathing down my neck to perform in the classroom (to help buoy the GPA for the "program", of course), dedicated and required study halls, highly structured routines, and all the tutoring I could want. Of course, if your brain was never programmed to be a student, you probably never will be.

The scholarships are very high payment, and in fact should be declared on the income tax form. That will really sharpen up the NCAA.

Interesting insight. I would just like to hear the little all-stars squeal when they find that the IRS is asking them to pony up 35% of the value of their football scholarship. I'm surprised the Dems haven't asked to close this loophole yet!
Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by jorgerunfast:
i'll start the argument.

how do you determine pay? isn't $50k/year in tuition and fees a decent salary for an 18-year-old who may or may not be any good? what about reggie bush vs the 3rd string nose tackle who won't play a day after he graduates from college? do they make the same amount? do football players make $300k while tennis players don't make anything? how about baseball players? somewhere in the middle?

that has a few problems, too.

first, kids will only pursue sports that pay - not ones that don't. goodbye track, tennis, swimming, lacrosse, soccer, etc etc.

second, you're favoring big schools now. schools with large receipts. Prepare for dynasties from the 3 or 4 largest schools. Nobody else stands a chance, player and athlete development of anything but the very very best goes down the drain.

i'm playing devil's advocate. i think it's terrible that these kids generate so much cash and only make $20k - $55k per year, but paying active collegiate athletes is not the solution. and frankly, i don't see a solution. maybe some sort of program for alumni athletes or something, but flat out paying student athletes just doesn't work out in a practical sense.

oh, and don't get me wrong. the NCAA may very well be the largest most awful bureaucracy on the face of this earth, bar none. i just don't see a practical solution to the problem.



"i think it's terible that these kids generate so much cash and only make $20k-$55k per year, ..."

Welcome to corporate America. Many bank employees make similar wages without the benefit of having their education paid for while executives make seven figure salaries with bonuses. Many other industries are similar in pay scales.

There are some universities that have higher tuitions than $55,000 per year.
Here's my two cents:

1) If the school's sport generates income to the school, then:
a) Pay out a nominal stipend each pay period. It's not like these folks can go out and get a part time job like other students.

b) Free tuition for life or reimbursement for job training. They may not get an education while playing football. Why not allow the players to be able to go back to school and get a business, engineering or law degree on top of their landscaping degree.
quote:
Originally posted by mneeley490:
Wasn't the idea that a football scholarship was their ticket to a good education?


yes, but in a public univsersity that works out to less than $20k/year. not to mention the amount of time required of you on the field / track / court / pool results in most athletes having to pursue easy majors that don't really do much for them in the way of a career. usually the lesser athletes or ones with better guidance / mentors figure this out before it's too late and make education their focus. many don't have that option though. not to mention role players who wind up in the middle of the pack. no useful degree, no chance at pro contracts.
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
The free education arguement is pretty weak. Look at graduation rates and tell me how many of these kids actually got their degree. Second, look at the degrees they leave with. You would be shocked at how many schools have special majors for athletes like "General Studies". That degree is absolutely useless in the real world.


That may be true, but if they make it to the NFL, then wouldn't you consider their collegiate experience as valuable preparation for a lucrative vocation?

And if they aren't good enough to make the pros, while squandering their opportunity to get a useful degree, do they really deserve to get paid (since these cases probably don't belong in college anyway)?

And if you pay them, does everybody get the same pay? Only the starters? Do the stars make more than the grunts on the line? Do all FBS players get paid, or just the ones on BCS conference teams? Do the Duke and Vandy kids get as much as the 'Bama and Florida State players?

I don't see how you can start paying and keep any sort of a level playing field when it comes to recruiting. Not that it's level now, but you might as well just go to a 30-team "elite" league if you're going to pay them.
Plus, once you change the system for the NCAA, you are going to have to change it for high school sports as well. And then, of course, you will need to adjust middle school sports programs and grade school programs. Once those programs fall in line, you need to adjust little league, T-ball and kindergarten sports programs.

I can't wait until 5 year old Timmy gets a $7.3 million contract to join the Podunk City recreation T-Ball team.
quote:
Originally posted by Juicy:

"i think it's terrible that these kids generate so much cash and only make $20k-$55k per year, ..."

Welcome to corporate America. Many bank employees make similar wages without the benefit of having their education paid for while executives make seven figure salaries with bonuses. Many other industries are similar in pay scales.

There are some universities that have higher tuitions than $55,000 per year.


collegiate athletes don't have the benefit of actually seeing any cash Confused

further, bank employees are allowed encouraged to profit from their skills. when employees put forth and execute ideas that generate significant cash-flows, they are typically compensated. this is how corporate america works. granted, external circumstances can impact compensation, but the general rule is "you make us money, and you'll be compensated". these kids aren't allowed to profit from their particular skill. not to mention, they don't have the time to hold jobs (at banks, or wendy's).

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