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Anyone catch the beginning of this 10 part series last night.  I was thoroughly addicted watching this.  Without question (although I am sure someone on here will question it) Michael Jordan is the single greatest basketball player to ever play the game.   

He was an absolute thrill to watch play...and those of use who remember were certainly spoiled to be  around at the same time Michael was playing the game.  I cannot wait for the rest of the episodes.

Original Post

I found the first two episodes very interesting.  I agree that Jordan is the GOAT, he could do anything he wanted to and could dominate the game and his will to win was unsurpassed.  Just listen to what Bird and Magic said about Michael in one of the episodes.  LeBron is a great player, but MIchael was better from a total perspective, especially his will to win.  Looking forward to the next few episodes.  It is not in chronological order, so it will be interesting to see how it progresses.

It is excellent as is almost all of the ESPN documentaries. Seeing Jordan at his peak does remind you of his greatness.

What interests me is the misplaced egos of the management. Without their egos, they probably could have won at least two more titles. Why in good faith did they not pay Pippen? How do you let a coach like Phil Jackson leave? If you think the rest of the roster is past its peak find other players to complement MJ, Pippen and Jackson.

Finally, and it may come out in future episodes, but the unsaid aspect of this is that Steve Kerr is a winner. While merely a piece of the pie as a player, his experience as a player served him well as a coach.  He knew how to coach the great players on his team.

They did pay Pippen the money owed to him on the long-term deal he wanted that they suggested against.  He would have pissed any extra money away on “bad investments” had he made more. If he wasn’t such an a-hole he would have done much better with endorsement deals.

He is an all-time great, but I won’t forgive him for refusing to get on the court in a 1994 playoff game because a play was drawn up for Toni Kukoc to take a shot instead of him. F that selfish crybaby. 

Last edited by billhike

Are not that many people watching this from this forum...not an interesting topic? I would have thought a lot more people would have chimed in.  I think this is just an excellent documentary and am thoroughly looking forward to Sunday nights.  I was just the biggest Bulls fan and just feel blessed to have been alive at the right time to watch this man's greatness.  

You can watch countless videos of Jordan and just marvel at the beauty of his jump shot.

Good to hear all.   And very jealous of getting to see a finals game of the 90's Bulls.   I remember that year, watching them lose the first two home games to the Knicks in the Eastern Conference Finals...then to have them go wine the next four.  That series was actually better than the finals....can't wait for tonight.   Aad yes Rodman got a lot of airtime last week.  I mostly enjoyed Dennis.

Interesting episodes last night.  I can't imagine what it was like for Jordan off the court, dealing with the press and so many people wanting to get a little time from him.  Maybe that is why he loves golf, to get away from the crowds and have some fun.  One big takeaway I got from last night is how he was the ultimate competitor, even if it was practice.  If he was challenged, he stepped up and took anyone who challenged him apart.  I think that is what made him the best ever.  Nobody was fiercer than Michael.

@napacat posted:

You get this from the series?  You most likely never met him but will judge him from a book.  Interesting.

From the series for which he and his family had total editorial control?  No - I take it from his actual life, a writer who spent year embedded with the team, his well known abuse of teammates, and all his personal foibles.  And his foray into minor league baseball was with the team I worked for in college - and I heard many stories about him from my friends at the team 

For over 20+ years, it is well known that his well-crafted media image was a mirage - also his monor l

@jcocktosten posted:

From the series for which he and his family had total editorial control?  No - I take it from his actual life, a writer who spent year embedded with the team, his well known abuse of teammates, and all his personal foibles.  And his foray into minor league baseball was with the team I worked for in college - and I heard many stories about him from my friends at the team 

For over 20+ years, it is well known that his well-crafted media image was a mirage - also his monor l

Amazing.  The interviewer stated that Jordan did not want any questions in advance and wanted to just reply honestly.  You are talking about (at the time), the most famous person in the world, the absolute best basketball player of all time, at the top of his game in which he is pulled at from every direction, spends time with terminally ill children and has to waste time with the blood thirsty media being a jerk.  You certainly speak as if you are at that level.  Again...amazing.  Walk a foot in that man's shoes and you could not do it.    This is a privilege to get to see some behind the scenes footage of arguably the greatest athlete to ever play any sport. 

But you sum it up as "best Player - Huge Jerk".  Bravo.  

@napacat posted:

Amazing.  The interviewer stated that Jordan did not want any questions in advance and wanted to just reply honestly.  You are talking about (at the time), the most famous person in the world, the absolute best basketball player of all time, at the top of his game in which he is pulled at from every direction, spends time with terminally ill children and has to waste time with the blood thirsty media being a jerk.  You certainly speak as if you are at that level.  Again...amazing.  Walk a foot in that man's shoes and you could not do it.    This is a privilege to get to see some behind the scenes footage of arguably the greatest athlete to ever play any sport. 

But you sum it up as "best Player - Huge Jerk".  Bravo.  

I don't know why I even bother Sure - he is a saint - the most wonderful person in the world.  Did you miss the part, where Jordan only agreed to do this if he was given full editorial control?

I guess your blind belief in the story being told should not come as a surprise. This series was prepared to enhance the legend of MJ, minimize his flaws and demonize everyone he has had a grudge against.  

Now - he can present himself any way he wants to - and I believe his company financed it.  But it is not journalism and is nothing but Jordan telling his story the way he wants to.  I choose to view it with a grain of salt, skepticism and a critical eye - and perhaps look for the truth behind the story.

Doesn't mean it is not entertaining.  Respond as much as you want. I am finished with this one.

 

 

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/ken-b...m-nba-000650647.html

There are lots of articles about Ken Burns' comments, but this one elaborates on some of the biases in the series.

I think the series is extremely well made. Great editing and storytelling, and it's amazing that so much footage exists, not just of the 97 season but going back to Jordan's high school days.

But yeah, it's biased. It can't help but be biased when the focus of the series has complete control. "Bias" doesn't necessarily equal "positive". The image of Jordan in the film is exactly the image he wanted us to see, even the parts that cast him in a negative light.

Is this jerkiness just towards fellow players? My best friend worked with him in 1995, played poker with him and got to hang out with him for a few months speaks very highly of him. However he is very competitive. Here's what happened the first time my friend played poker with him. "[We played] dollar ante stuff and at the end of the game I owed him $2. I told him I only had a twenty. He said no problem. He took the twenty and handed it to one of his guys. 'Go down to the lobby and get change,' he said. Guy left, came back and handed me $18. He beat me out of two bucks and wanted that money."

So that's one.

Last edited by The Old Man

I think we would find many things to be disappointed about all sports "heroes" if we knew all about their private and semi-private lives.  Best not to make anyone a hero, but maybe respect them and their accomplishments.  I'm sure Jordan has multiple faults, it is my understanding like many athletes that he slept around for one thing.  I can respect Jordan's professional career and is in my mind the best NBA player ever, even if I disagree with the way he may act at times or might have done in his private life.

It's been fun to watch with my sons (9 and 11) who have grown up during the Lebron era, and have discussions over who is better.  Only conclusion I can come to is that they are both in the top 2.  If my life was on the line for one game I may pick Jordan, but not easily.  Hard to compare players from different eras also.  

@patespo1 posted:

It's been fun to watch with my sons (9 and 11) who have grown up during the Lebron era, and have discussions over who is better.  Only conclusion I can come to is that they are both in the top 2.  If my life was on the line for one game I may pick Jordan, but not easily.  Hard to compare players from different eras also.  

Sir Charles would disagree with you.  Lebron is not in his top 5.   Which is correct.  Kobe was better than Lebron for sure. 

@jcocktosten posted:

I would take Prime Jordan over anyone - I agree it is hard to compare different eras - imagine how much even more dominant Jordan would have been in the era of no hand checking and ticky-tack foul calls.  Probably shoot 30 free throws a game.

True.  But also transport Lebron back to the 80s and early 90s.  Rewatching the video, is shocking how bad the defense (especially the rotations) actually was, compared to today.  And the lack of athleticism.  

@patespo1 posted:

True.  But also transport Lebron back to the 80s and early 90s.  Rewatching the video, is shocking how bad the defense (especially the rotations) actually was, compared to today.  And the lack of athleticism.  

The defense of the Bulls was fantastic and occasionally stifling. The Pistons and Knicks would have broken LeBron into a dozen shattered pieces. 
 

Last edited by billhike
@billhike posted:

The defense of the Bulls was fantastic and occasionally stifling. The Pistons and Knicks would have broken LeBron into a dozen shattered pieces. 
 

Good on you and I agree.  LeBron is just overrated.  Watched him dribble into trouble at the  end of games with the heat...not really wanting to take the last shot.  Super talented...supremely nice guy it seems, but not even close to Jordan.  Almost makes people look foolish even trying to justify it. 

And the absolute worst is when he said he was the greatest of all time after he delivered Cleveland a championship.  

I have enjoyed the series. Yes, I cannot imagine the fishbowl MJ endured and do not blame him for dreading it. Many of the super competitive aspects of MJ's behavior seem to be common to many of the greatest athletes, particularly Tiger in his early playing days. Some said this of Nicklaus also.

I have not met him nor do I know anyone closely who has. I do know that he can be a sore loser based on one incident of a friend of mine. This friend played pro golf for a decade, winning over $100k a year for six consecutive years on mini tours. He played in several Web.com (now Korn Ferry) events plus a few PGA Tour events. He had the game to make the big show but for whatever reason it did not happen.

The story in question was that my friend was playing MJ in a match at Shadow Creek in Vegas for $1,000 a hole. He birdied the first four holes. MJ calmly laid $4,000 on the 4th green and left the course.

 

@napacat posted:

Good on you and I agree.  LeBron is just overrated.  Watched him dribble into trouble at the  end of games with the heat...not really wanting to take the last shot.  Super talented...supremely nice guy it seems, but not even close to Jordan.  Almost makes people look foolish even trying to justify it. 

And the absolute worst is when he said he was the greatest of all time after he delivered Cleveland a championship.  

If by your standards it makes me look foolish to debate sports greats, that's fine.  Better than trying to justify the current occupant of the Oval office, which you do on the regular.  I'd rather look foolish than immoral and/or brain dead. 

I've enjoyed the series so far.  Pretty much the underlying theme of the whole thing is Jordan's competitiveness (or the chip...err...enormous boulder that he kept on his shoulder).  No one else had it. Or maybe they did, but didn't have the level of talent that Jordan had.  Either way, you always hear that about the greats.  Just a competitive drive that takes them to next level.  

I'm looking forward to the next couple of episodes when they supposedly talk about the time he punched Steve Kerr.  Steve Kerr is pretty much my idol (I got to meet him a few times when I was a kid when he went to the U of A, and if you don't know his story, it's really interesting), and I still remember the time when Jordan punched him at practice.  I always assumed Jordan was just a competitive a-hole.  But it takes a special kind of a-hole to hit the greatest human being on earth (obviously hyperbole...my mom is the greatest).  

@scbeerman posted:

I have enjoyed the series. Yes, I cannot imagine the fishbowl MJ endured and do not blame him for dreading it. Many of the super competitive aspects of MJ's behavior seem to be common to many of the greatest athletes, particularly Tiger in his early playing days. Some said this of Nicklaus also.

I have not met him nor do I know anyone closely who has. I do know that he can be a sore loser based on one incident of a friend of mine. This friend played pro golf for a decade, winning over $100k a year for six consecutive years on mini tours. He played in several Web.com (now Korn Ferry) events plus a few PGA Tour events. He had the game to make the big show but for whatever reason it did not happen.

The story in question was that my friend was playing MJ in a match at Shadow Creek in Vegas for $1,000 a hole. He birdied the first four holes. MJ calmly laid $4,000 on the 4th green and left the course.

 

Awesome story.  Was this before or after the book from the guy who hustled MJ for several hundred K in golf bets?

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