any insights?
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If you aren't familiar with the wines, find some at least ten years old to try. They are still available, and not more expensive than new releases that need years in the bottle to develop.
Expect higher acidity than new world wines, and have them with a leisurely meal.
Expect higher acidity than new world wines, and have them with a leisurely meal.
Brunelli are the most treasured wines in my cellar. To me they offer the ultimate experience in complexity and depth.
Both come in different incarnations. There are the classic ones that often need quite some time (10-15 years) to balance out. They have significant higher acidity in their youth than most new world wines. But if you give them enough time they develop into wonderfull complex wines with a perfect balance. More modern ones can be very aproachable in their youth and still last (and develop!) for many years.
Right now almost all 1997 Brunelli would be a good start. And many 2001 are quite sexy in their youth right now. Avoid 1996 or 2002. Others might be able to give a suggestion for Barolo. I've only had a few.
Most of the time JS ratings and drinking windows are in line with my palate. A good source to find more information on these wines.
And, whatever you choose, don't decant a Brunello di Montalcino. It opens up much more gracefully when you leave it in an opened bottle and give it a few hours.
Both come in different incarnations. There are the classic ones that often need quite some time (10-15 years) to balance out. They have significant higher acidity in their youth than most new world wines. But if you give them enough time they develop into wonderfull complex wines with a perfect balance. More modern ones can be very aproachable in their youth and still last (and develop!) for many years.
Right now almost all 1997 Brunelli would be a good start. And many 2001 are quite sexy in their youth right now. Avoid 1996 or 2002. Others might be able to give a suggestion for Barolo. I've only had a few.
Most of the time JS ratings and drinking windows are in line with my palate. A good source to find more information on these wines.
And, whatever you choose, don't decant a Brunello di Montalcino. It opens up much more gracefully when you leave it in an opened bottle and give it a few hours.
$$$
For the good stuff at least
For the good stuff at least
I think both should be held until their 10th birthdays if possible, as pdm indicates. If you buy a bottle or two to try, do drink them over a couple of hours, as they can change quite a bit.
If you hunt around, you can get aged bottles for reasonable prices. I've bought '99 La Fornace for $19.99 and '93 Tenuta La Fuga Riserva for $39. But those are far and away the best bargains I've found for good normale and riserva level Brunello after lots of looking.
Hunter is right... They don't come cheap - especially the best examples.
If you hunt around, you can get aged bottles for reasonable prices. I've bought '99 La Fornace for $19.99 and '93 Tenuta La Fuga Riserva for $39. But those are far and away the best bargains I've found for good normale and riserva level Brunello after lots of looking.
Hunter is right... They don't come cheap - especially the best examples.
You can spend serious cashola for a prime '97 BdM, but try a 2000, to get an idea of what the flavor profile is like. Most of the 2000s I've had are at a good place right now, and don't fetch the prices that the '01s, '99s, and '97s do. Heck, the 2000 Poggio Lontano you find at many Trader Joe's is not a bad drinker, and it's about 20 bucks.
The three Italian Killer B's are Barolo, Barbaresco and Brunello. The first two originate in villages of the same name in Piedmont and are made from the Nebbiolo grape. Brunello di Montalcino is a version of the Sangiovese grape, Brunello, grown in the town of Montalcino in the southern part of Tuscany. All three wines can develop quite a bit of complexity and are among the most treasured Italian wines. They are also expensive, although when compared to Bordeaux and Burgundy of a similar "quality" they can still be considered bargains.
1997 was a great vintage for all three wines, 98-2001 were also great for Barolo/Barbaresco and 2001 particularly good for Brunello. As mentioned avoid 2002 for all three, 2003 remains to be decided. There are some good 2000 Brunello wines available but be choosey.
I find Barbaresco more approachable than Barolo when young. Try drinking Barbaresco from 1997-2000 and 2001 is also drinking well now when decanted for about an hour. I recently had some 1999 Pio Cesare Barbaresco and 1998 Barolo that required about an hour of areation and even then they changed over the course of the hour we drank them. Some brands are easily found in most locations and the quality is dependable: Banfi Brunello, Banfi Poggio alla Mura, Pio Cesare Barolo/Barbaresco and Batasiolo Barbaresco are all decent and dependable, typically getting 90+ WS points annually.
While these wines are approachable from about 7-8 years from vintage date, 10-15 is better and when cellared properly 20-25 is possible. Like a lot of really great wine you get what you pay for, so don't be afraid to pony up over $50 for one of these.
1997 was a great vintage for all three wines, 98-2001 were also great for Barolo/Barbaresco and 2001 particularly good for Brunello. As mentioned avoid 2002 for all three, 2003 remains to be decided. There are some good 2000 Brunello wines available but be choosey.
I find Barbaresco more approachable than Barolo when young. Try drinking Barbaresco from 1997-2000 and 2001 is also drinking well now when decanted for about an hour. I recently had some 1999 Pio Cesare Barbaresco and 1998 Barolo that required about an hour of areation and even then they changed over the course of the hour we drank them. Some brands are easily found in most locations and the quality is dependable: Banfi Brunello, Banfi Poggio alla Mura, Pio Cesare Barolo/Barbaresco and Batasiolo Barbaresco are all decent and dependable, typically getting 90+ WS points annually.
While these wines are approachable from about 7-8 years from vintage date, 10-15 is better and when cellared properly 20-25 is possible. Like a lot of really great wine you get what you pay for, so don't be afraid to pony up over $50 for one of these.
quote:Originally posted by Bowser:
The three Italian Killer B's are Barolo, Barbaresco and Brunello. The first two originate in villages of the same name in Piedmont and are made from the Nebbiolo grape. Brunello di Montalcino is a version of the Sangiovese grape, Brunello, grown in the town of Montalcino in the southern part of Tuscany. All three wines can develop quite a bit of complexity and are among the most treasured Italian wines. They are also expensive, although when compared to Bordeaux and Burgundy of a similar "quality" they can still be considered bargains.
1997 was a great vintage for all three wines, 98-2001 were also great for Barolo/Barbaresco and 2001 particularly good for Brunello. As mentioned avoid 2002 for all three, 2003 remains to be decided. There are some good 2000 Brunello wines available but be choosey.
I find Barbaresco more approachable than Barolo when young. Try drinking Barbaresco from 1997-2000 and 2001 is also drinking well now when decanted for about an hour. I recently had some 1999 Pio Cesare Barbaresco and 1998 Barolo that required about an hour of areation and even then they changed over the course of the hour we drank them. Some brands are easily found in most locations and the quality is dependable: Banfi Brunello, Banfi Poggio alla Mura, Pio Cesare Barolo/Barbaresco and Batasiolo Barbaresco are all decent and dependable, typically getting 90+ WS points annually.
While these wines are approachable from about 7-8 years from vintage date, 10-15 is better and when cellared properly 20-25 is possible. Like a lot of really great wine you get what you pay for, so don't be afraid to pony up over $50 for one of these.
Nicely said.
quote:Originally posted by Wonggei:
any insights?
Brunelli and Barolo are completely different wines. The only thing they have in common is that they're both red.. well sort of anyways.
First, you should do a little research on their flavour profiles and then get out there and try them.
My money is on the fact you'll like the Brunelli alot more in the beginning as Nebbiolo is a bit of an acquired taste.
A good introduction to Nebbiolo (the grape used in Barolo, Barbaresco, and Gattinara) is to try a Gattinara by Travaglini. The 2000 or 2001 vintages are very good and they are reasonably priced. Be prepared for something a little different and decant it for a few hours if you can.
They go great with Braised beef dishes if you want to have it around a meal.
Cheers,
P.
I really did not like Italian wine until I had a BdM '97 earlier this year. Since then I've bought a few more and some Barolo '97 and '01.
If I was a man of indiscriminate wealth, they would have a major space in my collection. But cost does matter so I enjoy them on a rare occasion.
If I was a man of indiscriminate wealth, they would have a major space in my collection. But cost does matter so I enjoy them on a rare occasion.
quote:Brunelli and Barolo are completely different wines. The only thing they have in common is that they're both red.. well sort of anyways.
huh? sour cherry and highly acidic?
I won't continue, move along
quote:Originally posted by PatrickinKW:
A good introduction to Nebbiolo (the grape used in Barolo, Barbaresco, and Gattinara) is to try a Gattinara by Travaglini. The 2000 or 2001 vintages are very good and they are reasonably priced. Be prepared for something a little different and decant it for a few hours if you can.
Don't forget to chase it with some syrup of Ipecac, though that may prove to be bit of a redundancy.
quote:Originally posted by Board-O:quote:Originally posted by PatrickinKW:
A good introduction to Nebbiolo (the grape used in Barolo, Barbaresco, and Gattinara) is to try a Gattinara by Travaglini. The 2000 or 2001 vintages are very good and they are reasonably priced. Be prepared for something a little different and decant it for a few hours if you can.
Don't forget to chase it with some syrup of Ipecac, though that may prove to be bit of a redundancy.
BINGO!!
Are you guys cutting and pasting from this thread again?
Give it a rest already, or take your trolling elsewhere.
Give it a rest already, or take your trolling elsewhere.
quote:Originally posted by futronic:
Are you guys cutting and pasting from this thread again?
Give it a rest already, or take your trolling elsewhere.
Nope, they are just regurgitated original thoughts
He did ask to tell him about brunello or barolo...he didn't specify that it had to be positive!
Frankly, a balanced approach to reporting info allows the original poster to hear all opinions and then take the information to a future tasting where he/she can make their own opnion.
Different varietals, 
WOW.
You could write novels about each.
Very very basic thoughts, though, are...
Brunello:
Medium bodied. Clay earth notes. Reminiscent of medium-colored fruits. Often spicy. Good with grilled meats, particularly beef and veal.
My favorite producers:
Uccelliera
Livio Sassetti (Pertimali)
Ciacci Piccolomini
Siro Pacenti
The wines are best with some age on them, but many drink very well young, too.
Barolo:
Next to Cote-Rotie (and perhaps Hermitage) these are my favorite wines in the world. Frightfully expensive, but often worth it. Like with Brunello, there are both new world and old-world syled producers. My preferences tend toward the producers in the center or more close to the new world, but I am also not hugely experienced with properly aged old world styled producers.
In general, Barolo is like a more structured, more tannic, slightly more powerful, dark Pinot Noir. There is often red earth, and flowers on the nose. The fruits are usually medium to medium-dark and the wine is more powerful than its weight in the mouth would generally lead you to presume. It goes well with a variety of meats (and cheeses). But, to me, braised or roasted veal, lamb, or pork is a sublime pairing.
For value I like:
Cavalotto Bricco Boschis
Silvio Grasso Bricco Luciani
Albino Rocca Brich Ronchi (Barbaresco)
Clerico is a favorite producer of mine, often slightly more reasonably priced.
My favorite producers are:
La Spinetta (1 Barolo, 3 Barbarescos)
Sandrone
I also love Gaja (no longer identified as Barolo or Barbaresco)
More old world styled producers would include Aldo and Giacomo Conterno.
Another astounding producer is Giacosa, cannot really say if he is New World or old world, as I've not had his best stuff.
You could write novels about each.
Very very basic thoughts, though, are...
Brunello:
Medium bodied. Clay earth notes. Reminiscent of medium-colored fruits. Often spicy. Good with grilled meats, particularly beef and veal.
My favorite producers:
Uccelliera
Livio Sassetti (Pertimali)
Ciacci Piccolomini
Siro Pacenti
The wines are best with some age on them, but many drink very well young, too.
Barolo:
Next to Cote-Rotie (and perhaps Hermitage) these are my favorite wines in the world. Frightfully expensive, but often worth it. Like with Brunello, there are both new world and old-world syled producers. My preferences tend toward the producers in the center or more close to the new world, but I am also not hugely experienced with properly aged old world styled producers.
In general, Barolo is like a more structured, more tannic, slightly more powerful, dark Pinot Noir. There is often red earth, and flowers on the nose. The fruits are usually medium to medium-dark and the wine is more powerful than its weight in the mouth would generally lead you to presume. It goes well with a variety of meats (and cheeses). But, to me, braised or roasted veal, lamb, or pork is a sublime pairing.
For value I like:
Cavalotto Bricco Boschis
Silvio Grasso Bricco Luciani
Albino Rocca Brich Ronchi (Barbaresco)
Clerico is a favorite producer of mine, often slightly more reasonably priced.
My favorite producers are:
La Spinetta (1 Barolo, 3 Barbarescos)
Sandrone
I also love Gaja (no longer identified as Barolo or Barbaresco)
More old world styled producers would include Aldo and Giacomo Conterno.
Another astounding producer is Giacosa, cannot really say if he is New World or old world, as I've not had his best stuff.
quote:Originally posted by futronic:
Are you guys cutting and pasting from this thread again?
Give it a rest already, or take your trolling elsewhere.
And there are plenty of trolls on this board-o
quote:Originally posted by Chilepepper:quote:Originally posted by futronic:
Are you guys cutting and pasting from this thread again?
Give it a rest already, or take your trolling elsewhere.
Nope, they are just regurgitated original thoughts
He did ask to tell him about brunello or barolo...he didn't specify that it had to be positive!
Frankly, a balanced approach to reporting info allows the original poster to hear all opinions and then take the information to a future tasting where he/she can make their own opnion.
Always bubblegum and lollipops with you, isn't it?
You're starting to engage the animals. Better to let them talk to themselves.quote:Originally posted by futronic:
Always bubblegum and lollipops with you, isn't it?
Barolo and barbaresco are wonderful wines (hence, my username). But they are not for everyone, and I'd say the majority of American wine drinkers don't really get it. These wines are more about texture, complexity, subtlety and food-friendliness than about wowing the taster with concentration and fruit. These wines really improve with a lot of age and/or air, change a great deal over many hours in the decanter, and are more of an intellectual/contemplative type of experience as compared to most other wines.
I don't mean that in some sort of right or wrong or superiority kind of way (I think it's totally fine that some people don't like these wines, everyone has different tastes), I'm just letting the poster know not to expect something that is going to necessarily wow his company when he opens it or stand out in some blind tasting lineup against a bunch of reds from Spain, Australia, California, etc.
When you get your first bottles to try, give them time in a decanter, and try them over many hours in a quiet time when you can give them some thought and attention. It's a great experience.
I don't mean that in some sort of right or wrong or superiority kind of way (I think it's totally fine that some people don't like these wines, everyone has different tastes), I'm just letting the poster know not to expect something that is going to necessarily wow his company when he opens it or stand out in some blind tasting lineup against a bunch of reds from Spain, Australia, California, etc.
When you get your first bottles to try, give them time in a decanter, and try them over many hours in a quiet time when you can give them some thought and attention. It's a great experience.
quote:Originally posted by P Monty:
Barolo and barbaresco are wonderful wines (hence, my username). But they are not for everyone, and I'd say the majority of American wine drinkers don't really get it. These wines are more about texture, complexity, subtlety and food-friendliness than about wowing the taster with concentration and fruit. These wines really improve with a lot of age and/or air, change a great deal over many hours in the decanter, and are more of an intellectual/contemplative type of experience as compared to most other wines.
I don't mean that in some sort of right or wrong or superiority kind of way (I think it's totally fine that some people don't like these wines, everyone has different tastes), I'm just letting the poster know not to expect something that is going to necessarily wow his company when he opens it or stand out in some blind tasting lineup against a bunch of reds from Spain, Australia, California, etc.
When you get your first bottles to try, give them time in a decanter, and try them over many hours in a quiet time when you can give them some thought and attention. It's a great experience.
Sorry, P Monty. I don't buy that nebbiolo-based wines provide a more intellectual experience than other wines. Wine is wine. Either it appeals to our senses (i.e. we enjoy it when we look at it, smell it and taste it) or it doesn't.
I have personally enjoyed many wines which make your eyes pop out with the "wow" factor the first sip, and I've had equally good wines which did not do that on first impression but which revealed subtleties and complexities bit by bit as they evolved over an evening. Both great, but in two different ways. Maybe "intellectual" was an unnecessarily loaded word to describe the latter.
You might think of the very different ways in which you enjoy different styles of movies, from Indiana Jones to Sideways. You could say "either you enjoy the movie or you don't," but I think there is some value in pointing out that both movies are enjoyable but in completely different ways, and you might recommend one to some people and not others, or you might recommend them for different moods and circumstances.
Most of all, my point was to avoid Wonggei going into it expecting it to be something different than what it is, just as you might be very disappointed if you went to Sideways expecting a summer blockbuster (which I think is exactly what happened to many viewers of Sideways after the movie got so much hype), or if you went to Indiana Jones expecting thought-provoking reflection on real-life issues.
You might think of the very different ways in which you enjoy different styles of movies, from Indiana Jones to Sideways. You could say "either you enjoy the movie or you don't," but I think there is some value in pointing out that both movies are enjoyable but in completely different ways, and you might recommend one to some people and not others, or you might recommend them for different moods and circumstances.
Most of all, my point was to avoid Wonggei going into it expecting it to be something different than what it is, just as you might be very disappointed if you went to Sideways expecting a summer blockbuster (which I think is exactly what happened to many viewers of Sideways after the movie got so much hype), or if you went to Indiana Jones expecting thought-provoking reflection on real-life issues.