Ok, admit it. You've read TN's and said...how in they did they taste that flavor. Or...better yet, how did they understand that flavor.

For me, when someone uses forest floor as a flavor and not aroma...it really makes me wonder if they've been out in the forest sucking dirt.

Instead of a petrol nose..I've seen petrol on the palate. Don't know about you, but I've not tasted wine that was like gasoline? Nose yes.
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by Chilepepper:
Ok, admit it. You've read TN's and said...how in they did they taste that flavor. Or...better yet, how did they understand that flavor.

For me, when someone uses forest floor as a flavor and not aroma...it really makes me wonder if they've been out in the forest sucking dirt.

Instead of a petrol nose..I've seen petrol on the palate. Don't know about you, but I've not tasted wine that was like gasoline? Nose yes.


I've tasted petrol on the palate in old Rieslings. And by that, whatever flavor component that I identified as petrol on the nose, that flavor component travels to the palate. It oesn't hurt that these ages Rieslings can have a certain viscosity that conceivable would suggest oil.
I think there may always be a bit of the stretch of the imagination. Some descriptors just sound more mystic and interesting than others....kind of like a "poetry of wine". There are many ways to interpret different things and as many people that interpret them, there will probably always be a somewhat different interpretation each time.
We've been down this road before, but most of what we taste, aside from simple bitter, sweet, sour, salt and umami, is actually odor sensed olfactorily from more or less volatile compounds that are either picked up directly through the nose while eating, or from the back of the throat. So, yes, smelling something is very much like eating it. Usually when someone says "It tastes like petrol," they mean "It tastes as petrol smells." In fact, anyone who has siphoned gasoline knows that it actually just tastes bitter, and nothing like what one would expect by just smelling. So if you understand the physiology of taste, it makes perfect sense to taste flavors one has only smelled before.
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
Some of favorites tasting note flavors are "underbrush, barnyard, and drawn blood." There is no basis in reality for those flavors being identifiable unless the taster has actually put those things in his mouth.

I think I've seen Gary V put these things in his mouth on Conan O'Brian one night Razz Smile
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
quote:
Originally posted by winetarelli:
I've tasted petrol on the palate in old Rieslings.


No, you haven't tasted petrol. You've smelled it. Roll Eyes

Some of favorites tasting note flavors are "underbrush, barnyard, and drawn blood." There is no basis in reality for those flavors being identifiable unless the taster has actually put those things in his mouth.


As I said, Board-O, in admittedly, a type-o crazed way... By petrol on the palate, I mean I see what that smell correlates to on the palate. 90%+ of the sense of taste is actually communicated through the sense of smell. The only "tastes", iirc, are sour, sweet, salt, and bitter. Everything else is smell -- it is just a matter of whether it hits your sinuses through the nostrils or through the back of your throat. So that petrol smell can translate seamlessly to the palate.
Geez, here we go again. Roll Eyes

Once again people it's all about perception. If anybody says they taste anything but sweet, sour, salt, bitter and maybe unami when they eat or drink anything they're not correct. It's all about what we perceive we're tasting and nothing more.
quote:
Originally posted by wineismylife:
Geez, here we go again. Roll Eyes

Once again people it's all about perception. If anybody says they taste anything but sweet, sour, salt, bitter and maybe unami when they eat or drink anything they're not correct. It's all about what we perceive we're tasting and nothing more.


Fair enough, wiml. Fair enough.
quote:
Originally posted by wineismylife:
Geez, here we go again. Roll Eyes

Once again people it's all about perception. If anybody says they taste anything but sweet, sour, salt, bitter and maybe unami when they eat or drink anything they're not correct. It's all about what we perceive we're tasting and nothing more.


All that we see, hear feel, taste or smell is perception. That does nothing to change the issue. (Am I missing some intended irony in your statement?)

Taste and smell are linked, not separate. We "taste" everything but sweet, sour, bitter, salty and umami through our olfactory sensors, but to say that we don't taste X but smell it is to artificially draw a line through the continuum of taste/smell.

Otherwise Board-O's tasting notes would read like this: "roses, underbrush and a hint of petrol on the nose. On the palate the wine is mostly sour, balanced with bitter and a shade of sweetness."

When we taste anything other than the five basic tastes, it's really there and not just some trick of the mind, as you might be asserting; it's just being "tasted" olfactorily rather than by the tongue, though our perception is certainly influenced by cognitive factors.
Last edited by spenser
quote:
Originally posted by Spenser:

Taste and smell are linked, not separate. We "taste" everything but sweet, sour, bitter, salty and umami through our olfactory sensors, but to say that we don't taste X but smell it is to artificially draw a line through the continuum of taste/smell.

Otherwise Board-O's tasting notes would read like this: "roses, underbrush and a hint of petrol on the nose. On the palate the wine is mostly sour, balanced with bitter and a shade of sweetness."

When we taste anything other than the five basic tastes, it's really there and not just some trick of the mind, as you might be asserting; it's just being "tasted" olfactorily rather than by the tongue, though our perception is certainly influenced by cognitive factors.


Taste and smell are linked, no doubt, but there are also things that you smell that one probably has no idea what it tastes like. One might walk through a rose garden and pick up the smells, but this comes with no related taste.

Forest floor can certainly bring back memories of playing in the forest as a kid and the distinct aroma, but again, this comes without any related flavors.

A well written tasting note is nice..and it can relate taste to things other than sweet, sour, bitter, etc. Its when the "poetry of wine" turns into fiction writing that it gets quite funny.
I have been chided in the past for noticing tastes of leather in wine. Growing up I played a lot of baseball and had a habit of chewing on the lacing of my mitt. The taste of leather will forever be imbedded in my memory.
quote:
Originally posted by Chilepepper:

A well written tasting note is nice..and it can relate taste to things other than sweet, sour, bitter, etc. Its when the "poetry of wine" turns into fiction writing that it gets quite funny.


I think "petrol", "forest floor" and even, God help me, "drawn blood," are perfectly understandable descriptors, and if one doesn't try too hard to be ironic, one understands perfectly that the writer is referring to the smell component of the taste/smell (as they must always be if not referring to salty, bitter, etc.)

Which is not to say that I don't agree with you that some tasting notes are pretty funny. I've read of lovely wines that tasted of stones and cigar box that sounded perfectly dreadful to me, but, on the other hand, last night I had a wine that tasted strongly of baseball glove, and thought it was a treat. The tasting note was pretty funny, though, in unintentional ways that I could hardly avoid. All the more reason to have fun with it without worrying that that someone is going to come along and try to kill your buzz. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by SD-Wineaux:
Well, if it isn't Friday night! What an odd time to find a thread started baiting Board-O vs GD...
No kidding.
CP’s toadie quotient has seen an up-tick in recent weeks.
quote:
Originally posted by wineismylife:
Once again people it's all about perception. If anybody says they taste anything but sweet, sour, salt, bitter and maybe unami when they eat or drink anything they're not correct.
You’re referring to taste buds only. The sense of taste or how we derive flavor is a complex sense that involves multiple senses with the primary one being smell and includes memory, touch, and temperature (among others). You can’t write a tasting note saying you tasted cherries or mocha otherwise. Additionally, anyone who has had a cold and recognized that his food didn’t have much taste knows this.
quote:
Originally posted by Spenser:
All that we see, hear feel, taste or smell is perception. That does nothing to change the issue. (Am I missing some intended irony in your statement?)

Taste and smell are linked, not separate. We "taste" everything but sweet, sour, bitter, salty and umami through our olfactory sensors, but to say that we don't taste X but smell it is to artificially draw a line through the continuum of taste/smell.

Otherwise Board-O's tasting notes would read like this: "roses, underbrush and a hint of petrol on the nose. On the palate the wine is mostly sour, balanced with bitter and a shade of sweetness."

When we taste anything other than the five basic tastes, it's really there and not just some trick of the mind, as you might be asserting; it's just being "tasted" olfactorily rather than by the tongue, though our perception is certainly influenced by cognitive factors.
Very well said. Now why don’t you shock them with the revelation that you have olfactory receptors in the back of your mouth.
quote:
Originally posted by Chilepepper:
Taste and smell are linked, no doubt, but there are also things that you smell that one probably has no idea what it tastes like. One might walk through a rose garden and pick up the smells, but this comes with no related taste.

Forest floor can certainly bring back memories of playing in the forest as a kid and the distinct aroma, but again, this comes without any related flavors.

A well written tasting note is nice..and it can relate taste to things other than sweet, sour, bitter, etc. Its when the "poetry of wine" turns into fiction writing that it gets quite funny.
Taste is not just linked to smell, it is almost non-existent without it. I’ve tasted a rose, rose oil, rose flavoring, et al and it tastes pretty much exactly how it smells. The same with violets and many, many other spices. If you’ve never tasted forest floor, then you’ve lived your life in a man-made bubble and not only is that not funny, it’s just plain sad.
quote:
Originally posted by GreenDrazi:
Taste is not just linked to smell, it is almost non-existent without it. I’ve tasted a rose, rose oil, rose flavoring, et al and it tastes pretty much exactly how it smells. The same with violets and many, many other spices. If you’ve never tasted forest floor, then you’ve lived your life in a man-made bubble and not only is that not funny, it’s just plain sad.


I guess I don't go around and eating roses and violets off the bush to know what they taste like. Also, regarding forest floor, I'm sorry that I've not gotten down and munched on dead leaves and dirt. Maybe it's just something not popular to do here in Florida.
Burnt rubber, sounds ridiculous, but it is present in some reduced wines.

Also, for the sidebar, there is a reason why I spit out my gum when I walk into a public restroom. There are several things I have never put in my mouth, cedar for example, but I have drunk wine that had a flavor that tasted just the way cedar smells. I have also had a cold before, and yeah, I could taste only the basics.
quote:
Originally posted by Chilepepper:

I guess I don't go around and eating roses and violets off the bush to know what they taste like. Also, regarding forest floor, I'm sorry that I've not gotten down and munched on dead leaves and dirt. Maybe it's just something not popular to do here in Florida.


Wow. Some people are so obtuse about the nature of taste/smell that you have to wonder why they enjoy wine at all.
quote:
Originally posted by Spenser:
quote:
Originally posted by Chilepepper:

I guess I don't go around and eating roses and violets off the bush to know what they taste like. Also, regarding forest floor, I'm sorry that I've not gotten down and munched on dead leaves and dirt. Maybe it's just something not popular to do here in Florida.


Wow. Some people are so obtuse about the nature of taste/smell that you have to wonder why they enjoy wine at all.


Drawing the line on things that are aromas and not flavors is not being obtuse.

Have you ever been near a landfill? Rotting garbage has a unique aroma doesn't it? Sorry if I can't correlate that smell over to my palate.
All flavors (Other than salty, sweet, etc) are odors. That doesn't mean that you should eat everything that has an odor. Is this beginning to make sense yet Wink
gigondass posted:
Tastes like ass..... with a side of ass.

One of my all time favorites.

Perfect description for the Copain Pinot I opened yesterday.

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