I know there are some hardcore baseball fans on this forum, and quite a few forumites in the Baltimore area. Curious to get your take on how the Orioles are handling him.
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quote:Originally posted by billhike:
I know there are some hardcore baseball fans on this forum, and quite a few forumites in the Baltimore area. Curious to get your take on how the Orioles are handling him.
Not sure how the Orioles are handling him... However I think the Nationals are being ridiculous.
This could have been handled so much better by simply skipping a start of his every 2 months... Shutting down your best pitcher when your team is on the brink of the playoffs and fans are finally interested, even though he is not injured and there is absolutely no evidence that the additional innings will damage his surgically repaired arm is just absurd and a slap in the face to the other 25 guys in the dugout that are going out there and busting ass for 162 games. Rizzo is a fool.
Total joke! How often do you have a chance to win a title? It doesn't come every freaking year. Ask the 1991-2005 Braves. When you have a chance to win you go for it. Future be damned.
Disagree with both TPE and LBJ on this one. You guys can continue the discussion, as I'm not going to get into a long winded statistical pissing match with you two mutts! 
I think Tom Boswell's Recent Article makes a pretty eloquent argument for the Nats' continued chances. Gio Gonzalez, Jordan Zimmermann, Edwin Jackson and Ross Detwiler? Not too shabby, boys. Not too shabby. We'll never know what would have happened, but I do know that the Nats are built for the long haul. Protecting the recently rehabbed arm of your ace is just another piece in the long haul strategy.
PH
I think Tom Boswell's Recent Article makes a pretty eloquent argument for the Nats' continued chances. Gio Gonzalez, Jordan Zimmermann, Edwin Jackson and Ross Detwiler? Not too shabby, boys. Not too shabby. We'll never know what would have happened, but I do know that the Nats are built for the long haul. Protecting the recently rehabbed arm of your ace is just another piece in the long haul strategy.
PH
quote:Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
Disagree with both TPE and LBJ on this one. You guys can continue the discussion, as I'm not going to get into a long winded statistical pissing match with you two mutts!
I think Tom Boswell's Recent Article makes a pretty eloquent argument for the Nats' continued chances. Gio Gonzalez, Jordan Zimmermann, Edwin Jackson and Ross Detwiler? Not too shabby, boys. Not too shabby. We'll never know what would have happened, but I do know that the Nats are built for the long haul. Protecting the recently rehabbed arm of your ace is just another piece in the long haul strategy.
PH
PH- I LOVE Gio... Have since he was with the A's... Insightful, intelligent and a damn good pitcher. But I think the message it sends to the other 25 guys is a bad one, and will only foster resentment. What is the point of protecting one player if you are potentially alienating 25 others? Mark DeRosa already made some not-so-cryptic comments about his personal opinion, and I have to believe he is not the only one. For a guy like Ryan Zimmerman- who has endured years of being a faceless bona fide star on a hapless team- to deny him his best shot at winning it all on the off-chance that your pitcher might suffer years down the road, is insulting. I would be pissed if I was one of the guys in that locker room. There are guys that go out there day in and day out and play INJURED... To coddle your healthy ace because he MIGHT get injured is a tough sell to his teammates.
If Rizzo really wanted to protect his ace, he should have kept his stupid mouth shut in the beginning, and not let the whole world know his intentions. He could have easily played this close-to-the-vest, and simply said Strasburg was suffering arm fatigue, and the team was shutting him down, as opposed to letting everyone know he was on an innings limit and subjecting himself to second-guessing from every analyst and even the rest of the ball club. Whether you think shutting Strasburg down is harmful or helpful, there is no escaping that Rizzo is an idiot for the way he has gone about the whole situation.
I'm with PH and TPE.
Based on the way the Nats have used him, I shut him down, no question.
This said, I would have thought much like TPE stated, you could have given him more skipped starts throughout the season and this would not have been an issue.
Based on the way the Nats have used him, I shut him down, no question.
This said, I would have thought much like TPE stated, you could have given him more skipped starts throughout the season and this would not have been an issue.
quote:Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
Disagree with both TPE and LBJ on this one. You guys can continue the discussion, as I'm not going to get into a long winded statistical pissing match with you two mutts!
I think Tom Boswell's Recent Article makes a pretty eloquent argument for the Nats' continued chances. Gio Gonzalez, Jordan Zimmermann, Edwin Jackson and Ross Detwiler? Not too shabby, boys. Not too shabby. We'll never know what would have happened, but I do know that the Nats are built for the long haul. Protecting the recently rehabbed arm of your ace is just another piece in the long haul strategy.
PH
PH, we agree on The Boss, but not on this one. Since I am a long-suffering Cleveland sports fan, I can strongly say that I'd take 1 Title over thinking my teams will have a chance for years to come (I realize the Nats aren't assured a title this year, but go for it!).
The Cavs went through it with LeBum for years, the Browns couldn't get past Elway in the '80s, and Indians couldn't get one more strike against the Marlins.
Go for the title when you can!
It's not "coddling" to follow his surgeon's advice. The kid's never pitched a complete season. To push it against the best medical opinions out there is simply short sighted.
So what, Rizzo is supposed to lie and ask Stras to back up his fabrication of "arm fatigue?" Not a reasonable plan, TPE. I think Rizzo handled it right by getting it out on the table. Doctor's advice. Best likelihood of a continued career for Stras. It's not like this team was cobbled together for a 1 or 2 year run. They'll be around for a long time, and with a healthy Strasburg, I'm looking forward to the next 4-5 years at a minimum.
PH
So what, Rizzo is supposed to lie and ask Stras to back up his fabrication of "arm fatigue?" Not a reasonable plan, TPE. I think Rizzo handled it right by getting it out on the table. Doctor's advice. Best likelihood of a continued career for Stras. It's not like this team was cobbled together for a 1 or 2 year run. They'll be around for a long time, and with a healthy Strasburg, I'm looking forward to the next 4-5 years at a minimum.
PH
quote:Originally posted by wine+art:
I'm with PH and TPE.
Based on the way the Nats have used him, I shut him down, no question.
This said, I would have thought much like TPE stated, you could have given him more skipped starts throughout the season and this would not have been an issue.
I'm no doctor, and certainly not a baseball expert, but I've heard enough reasonable arguments against skipping starts by serious baseball guys to not see this as an option. There's a rhythm of rest and activity that seems to work well for starters in the bigs, and the risk of long lapses between throwing hard in a game situation could put him at increased risk. Again, we have four SERIOUS starters to carry on with the season.
I commend Mike Rizzo and the Nat's management for making a prudent and LONG TERM decision on the fate of this young man. He's a phenom, and entitled to a chance at a long career. To go against the preponderence of medical opinion in the short term run for a title this year would exemplify everything that is bad and short sighted about sports in America.
PH
I obviously meant the Nationals, not the O's. Doh! 
My thoughts are letting the guy pitch if he (Strasburg) feels comfortable pushing it. Gotta try and win when you can. This is just my opinion, though. Baseball isn't my favorite sport. I listen to ESPN's Mike and Mike show in the morning, and this topic has gotten a lot of airplay recently.
My thoughts are letting the guy pitch if he (Strasburg) feels comfortable pushing it. Gotta try and win when you can. This is just my opinion, though. Baseball isn't my favorite sport. I listen to ESPN's Mike and Mike show in the morning, and this topic has gotten a lot of airplay recently.
Here is a great article by Jayson Stark of ESPN on the subject.
The problem with shutting him down is that it doesnt guarantee you anything. There is simply not enough information out there in any kind of valid sample size. He might go on to have a long career. He also might blow out his arm on his first pitch next season. The other pitchers in the rotation might not be as healthy next season and it wont matter how well he pitches they arent getting back to the playoffs.
So many things have to go right to win a pennant and then a Championship that I dont think you voluntarily shut down your ace when its one of those magical years where everything is breaking right and you have a real shot at it.
I do give Rizzo a lot of credit for standing up in what he believes in even though its getting him a ton of criticism.
The problem with shutting him down is that it doesnt guarantee you anything. There is simply not enough information out there in any kind of valid sample size. He might go on to have a long career. He also might blow out his arm on his first pitch next season. The other pitchers in the rotation might not be as healthy next season and it wont matter how well he pitches they arent getting back to the playoffs.
So many things have to go right to win a pennant and then a Championship that I dont think you voluntarily shut down your ace when its one of those magical years where everything is breaking right and you have a real shot at it.
I do give Rizzo a lot of credit for standing up in what he believes in even though its getting him a ton of criticism.
You're right. There are no guarantees. No guarantee that if they let Strasburg continue that they'll even win a pennant much less the whole shebang. I will give you one guarantee, though:
If they hadn't gone down this road, didn't implement an early shut down and let Strasburg pitch AND his elbow blew again or his shoulder got toasted, the firestorm would be unprecedented. And I guarantee you that a majority of the experts and pundits who've sounded off against the shut down would be leading the lynch mob.
PH
If they hadn't gone down this road, didn't implement an early shut down and let Strasburg pitch AND his elbow blew again or his shoulder got toasted, the firestorm would be unprecedented. And I guarantee you that a majority of the experts and pundits who've sounded off against the shut down would be leading the lynch mob.
PH
I am not sure about this, but I think that Strasburg is a Scott Boras client. Someone told me that Boras is orchestrating this. If so, this is about keeping Strasburg healthy enough so Boras can cash in on the next big contract, be it arbitration or free agency.
I think it's a decision to be made based on consulatations with his physicians, assuming the team has competent sports and orthopedic physicians.
Pretty safe assumption these days, don't you think?
PH
PH
quote:Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
Pretty safe assumption these days, don't you think?
PH
Not when it comes to my beloved Warriors! The training staff has been called into question by the players themselves. In the NBA, the Lakers and Suns are widely regarded as having the best training staffs. Not sure about MLB though.
quote:Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:quote:Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
Pretty safe assumption these days, don't you think?
PH
Not when it comes to my beloved Warriors! The training staff has been called into question by the players themselves. In the NBA, the Lakers and Suns are widely regarded as having the best training staffs. Not sure about MLB though.
Just downright inexcuseable. If the players are indeed correct. Forget the moral implications, it's just bad business to not have top-notch medical staff with an investment of this size.
Frank Jobe was apparently involved in the rehab and shutdown recommendations for Strasburg. I think it's safe to say that he's qualified.
PH
quote:Originally posted by PurpleHaze:quote:Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:quote:Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
Pretty safe assumption these days, don't you think?
PH
Not when it comes to my beloved Warriors! The training staff has been called into question by the players themselves. In the NBA, the Lakers and Suns are widely regarded as having the best training staffs. Not sure about MLB though.
Just downright inexcuseable. If the players are indeed correct. Forget the moral implications, it's just bad business to not have top-notch medical staff with an investment of this size.
Frank Jobe was apparently involved in the rehab and shutdown recommendations for Strasburg. I think it's safe to say that he's qualified.
PH
I agree 110% about it being bad business to have anything but the best training staff. Greg Oden was being pushed by the Blazers training staff to come back early from his significant knee injuries, even as other teams' trainers were pulling him aside and saying they were jeapoardizing his career.
Has Dr. James Andrews been involved in Strasburg's surgery and rehabilitation? He appears to be the preeminent authority on athlete shoulder and elbow injuries. Just curious.
Andrews wasn't directly involved, and when asked about the decision rightly declined to make any specific comments given his lack of direct involvement. His general tone was supportive of the shutdown, and interestingly also strongly against the "rest and recycle" suggestions that many have made as a possibility of extending Strasburg's season.
PH
PH