Not wanting to highjack the "what are you drinking thread" and reading W&A and Seaquam's comments...what is it about SE?

I have had it a few times...never been overly impressed at all. Is it good...yes. Does it make you look at your friend and say WTF...this is fantastic? NO.

So what gives? Interested in thoughts...just folklore by now? Not enough people taste it ... just "know of it"?
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by Danyull:
Status and market price. That's about it.

Not that I would know, have never tried it.


Agree. I've had several bottles - 1997 being most notable. The 1997 was absolutely stupendous if you were lucky enough to have gotten it at it's original price of ~$150 back then (I think). I was not that lucky and traded for this bottle. Again, it's great wine, but I am often left thinking "Man, I wish I had a case of really good Napa Cab" instead of this 1 bottle of really good Napa Cab

To be clear, it is great wine but can often be bested by bottles that are 1/8th - 1/10th the cost.

Gman, DD and I had dinner at Tribecca Grill a few years back. Gman finagled a fantastic deal from the Somm on a bottle of 2010 Spottswood (I believe it was on the list for $400 or so and Gman scored it for $200 . . . don't ask me how). We were enjoying what I considered to be one of the better Napa cabs I had had in a long long time while some young traders across the bar were cracking open a bottle of 2011 Screaming Eagle to the tune of ~$4,500. The Somm himself said, "I'd much rather have what you're drinking."

In short . . . as a drinker Screaming Eagle is up there with a flooded field of Napa greats. The bottle looks pretty cool in a cellar, but at a release price just barely below $1,000 these days, it better look good in a cellar!
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
quote:
Originally posted by Danyull:
Status and market price. That's about it.

Not that I would know, have never tried it.


Agree. I've had several bottles - 1997 being most notable. The 1997 was absolutely stupendous if you were lucky enough to have gotten it at it's original price of ~$150 back then (I think). I was not that lucky and traded for this bottle. Again, it's great wine, but I am often left thinking "Man, I wish I had a case of really good Napa Cab" instead of this 1 bottle of really good Napa Cab

To be clear, it is great wine but can often be bested by bottles that are 1/8th - 1/10th the cost.

Gman, DD and I had dinner at Tribecca Grill a few years back. Gman finagled a fantastic deal from the Somm on a bottle of 2010 Spottswood (I believe it was on the list for $400 or so and Gman scored it for $200 . . . don't ask me how). We were enjoying what I considered to be one of the better Napa cabs I had had in a long long time while some young traders across the bar were cracking open a bottle of 2011 Screaming Eagle to the tune of ~$4,500. The Somm himself said, "I'd much rather have what you're drinking."

In short . . . as a drinker Screaming Eagle is up there with a flooded field of Napa greats. The bottle looks pretty cool in a cellar, but at a release price just barely below $1,000 these days, it better look good in a cellar!


Good Post...and agree the 2010 Spottswoode is a great wine. Would rather have that than have to pay for a SE. As noted...good, but just lacks the WOW factor to me. And if you are the one paying for it...has to be extremely disappointing.
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by GlennK:
I've had the same results with Le Pin as well at blind tasting offlines.


that's a shame

is it still worth trying once though?
Always depends on the person. I have a buddy in London that loves Le Pin and he rates it high even in blind tastings. Not worth the tariff compared to other wines to me but you only know for yourself if you try.
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
Not surprised, I guess. I am surprised that he hasn't been impressed by any Bordeaux, but wants to try a Le Pin. Actually... I guess I'm not.

PH


well if all you've tried is laffite rothschild I wouldnt be surprised either ;-)
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
Not surprised, I guess. I am surprised that he hasn't been impressed by any Bordeaux, but wants to try a Le Pin. Actually... I guess I'm not.

PH


well if all you've tried is laffite rothschild I wouldnt be surprised either ;-)


If you tried the 1952, 1955, 1959, 1961, 1966, 1970 Lafites you wouldn't be surprised? I would be.
quote:
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I like the name Le Pin...that's why I want to try it.

If Laffite Rothschild not a good first growth...is it supposed to be 5th out of 5? Serious question...just don't know.

And while I have had quite a bit of Bordeaux...not one bottle has ever produced a WOW moment.

Just decanted a 2011 TOR Howell Mountain Cimarossa vineyard...I can say this has a very promising nose for later.
quote:
Originally posted by Lakersguy:
Somebody keeps buying it!. I've never tasted it but I've been on the mail waiting list for at least 10 years. I check in once ever few years and each time I'm told, they continue to sell out.


Lakersguy...what is the mail list price now$850? Probably worth buying a couple...you can drink one (and be disappointed) then sell the other one. I'm not on their list( SE).
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
Not surprised, I guess. I am surprised that he hasn't been impressed by any Bordeaux, but wants to try a Le Pin. Actually... I guess I'm not.

PH


well if all you've tried is laffite rothschild I wouldnt be surprised either ;-)


If you tried the 1952, 1955, 1959, 1961, 1966, 1970 Lafites you wouldn't be surprised? I would be.


lafite for sure

not sure about laffite, not cheap either. I see them all over hong kong
quote:
Originally posted by Napacat:

If Laffite Rothschild not a good first growth...is it supposed to be 5th out of 5? Serious question...just don't know.

And while I have had quite a bit of Bordeaux...not one bottle has ever produced a WOW moment.


Not even mad, Napacat...just a bit sad. Even out of First Growth territory, great vintages of Las Cases, Montrose, Lynch Bages, Cos, Gruaud Larose, La Mish, etc. have been game changers for me.

Haut Brion is on another planet for my palate...
quote:
Originally posted by Shane T.:
quote:
Originally posted by Napacat:

If Laffite Rothschild not a good first growth...is it supposed to be 5th out of 5? Serious question...just don't know.

And while I have had quite a bit of Bordeaux...not one bottle has ever produced a WOW moment.


Not even mad, Napacat...just a bit sad. Even out of First Growth territory, great vintages of Las Cases, Montrose, Lynch Bages, Cos, Gruaud Larose, La Mish, etc. have been game changers for me.

Haut Brion is on another planet for my palate...


I'll chime in here as well . . . After delving head first into Bordeaux really only in the last 4-5 years with many fine folks on these forums, I have to say I had a palate revelation.

I had historically focused almost exclusively on Napa Cab -- which I still love, and love both young and with age. After a few visits to Berns Steakhouse digging into the depths of the older Bordeaux they still have left and making a point to order 2nd - 5th growths at nicer restaurants, I started to really appreciate the nuance and subtlety these wines offer vs. their US counterparts.

Only first growth that wowed me was in fact a Lafite shared by a friend. But, admittedly I haven't had any of the "epic" first growth vintages with sufficient age on them to say much more than that.

Long story short, Bordeaux and other ex-US Cab and/or Merlot-based reds are solidly on my radar as I mix up the balance of my cellar. Napa Cabs still make up the majority of my cellar but I've been selling and trading a lot out to get deeper into France, Italy, Spain, and Argentina
I know this thread is all over the place...but pretty interesting.

What does the comment mean "Haut Brion is on another planet for me? I had an 82 Haut Brion once and was not overly impressed either.

Last night in a blind tasting a 2009 Chateau Leoville Barton was slipped in (in a decanter).

I commented that there was fruit, but too much of a menthol eucalyptus type streak running through it. A bit tart as well. Beautiful mouthfeel though and tannins were pretty restrained. Not a WOW wine for me at all.
quote:
Originally posted by Napacat:
What does the comment mean "Haut Brion is on another planet for me? I had an 82 Haut Brion once and was not overly impressed either


This is my opinion, but as close to a fact as an opinion can be- Haut Brion is the most consistent of the First Growths, often making good or excellent wines in off years. The 1982 Haut Brion is wonderful. Your bottle must have been off.

I don't buy Napa Cabs anymore. You can do far better in Bordeaux for less.
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
This is my opinion, but as close to a fact as an opinion can be- Haut Brion is the most consistent of the First Growths, often making good or excellent wines in off years. The 1982 Haut Brion is wonderful. Your bottle must have been off.


+1.
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
quote:
Originally posted by wineismylife:
I don't know why but for some odd reason I feel like we're being trolled.


Really. Funny he didn't mention the 82 HB in his original post about Firsts. Either that, or he has the palate of a West Virginia coal miner.

PH


Or as my good buddy GigondAss used to say "He has the palate of a filter feeder". Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by wineismylife:
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
quote:
Originally posted by wineismylife:
I don't know why but for some odd reason I feel like we're being trolled.


Really. Funny he didn't mention the 82 HB in his original post about Firsts. Either that, or he has the palate of a West Virginia coal miner.

PH


Or as my good buddy GigondAss used to say "He has the palate of a filter feeder". Big Grin


You both are being far too kind!
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by wineismylife:
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
quote:
Originally posted by wineismylife:
I don't know why but for some odd reason I feel like we're being trolled.


Really. Funny he didn't mention the 82 HB in his original post about Firsts. Either that, or he has the palate of a West Virginia coal miner.

PH


Or as my good buddy GigondAss used to say "He has the palate of a filter feeder". Big Grin


You both are being far too kind!


Burned.
quote:
Originally posted by Napacat:
quote:
Originally posted by Lakersguy:
Somebody keeps buying it!. I've never tasted it but I've been on the mail waiting list for at least 10 years. I check in once ever few years and each time I'm told, they continue to sell out.


Lakersguy...what is the mail list price now$850? Probably worth buying a couple...you can drink one (and be disappointed) then sell the other one. I'm not on their list( SE).
If I ever got on the mailing list, I would buy the wine but I would only flip it to support my wine habit. Really not interested in $1000.00 bottles of wine.
quote:
Originally posted by Napacat:
ILast night in a blind tasting a 2009 Chateau Leoville Barton was slipped in (in a decanter).

I commented that there was fruit, but too much of a menthol eucalyptus type streak running through it. A bit tart as well. Beautiful mouthfeel though and tannins were pretty restrained. Not a WOW wine for me at all.


I love Bordeaux but have never enjoyed them young. The 2009 LB needs another 10-15 years to start drinking well. Your note is probably spot on especially in the middle of a bunch of Napa cabs.
quote:
Originally posted by mangiare:
quote:
Originally posted by Napacat:
ILast night in a blind tasting a 2009 Chateau Leoville Barton was slipped in (in a decanter).

I commented that there was fruit, but too much of a menthol eucalyptus type streak running through it. A bit tart as well. Beautiful mouthfeel though and tannins were pretty restrained. Not a WOW wine for me at all.


I love Bordeaux but have never enjoyed them young. The 2009 LB needs another 10-15 years to start drinking well. Your note is probably spot on especially in the middle of a bunch of Napa cabs.


Thanks...so 18 years of bottle time to "start drinking well"? What is going to happen ( I know secondary flavours will develop)? Fruit should be about gone I would imagine. It was pretty soft as is and did not have any overpowering tannin.

We also had a 99 Mondavi Reserve last night that I thought was done. No fruit on the nose...just showed a lot of age.
quote:
Originally posted by Napacat:
quote:
Originally posted by mangiare:
quote:
Originally posted by Napacat:
ILast night in a blind tasting a 2009 Chateau Leoville Barton was slipped in (in a decanter).

I commented that there was fruit, but too much of a menthol eucalyptus type streak running through it. A bit tart as well. Beautiful mouthfeel though and tannins were pretty restrained. Not a WOW wine for me at all.


I love Bordeaux but have never enjoyed them young. The 2009 LB needs another 10-15 years to start drinking well. Your note is probably spot on especially in the middle of a bunch of Napa cabs.


Thanks...so 18 years of bottle time to "start drinking well"? What is going to happen ( I know secondary flavours will develop)? Fruit should be about gone I would imagine. It was pretty soft as is and did not have any overpowering tannin.

We also had a 99 Mondavi Reserve last night that I thought was done. No fruit on the nose...just showed a lot of age.


Maybe heat damaged? I've had the 99 and while not spectacular, it shouldn't be done like that.

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