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winetarelli posted:

In other news, nice to be reminded that we don’t have THE dumbest voting system in the democratized world.  

With respect, I believe that you do, given that the primaries empower the most radical voters in each party and so leads to the most radical candidate getting elected, and the whole process costs hundreds of millions of dollars and takes 18 or more months to complete.

And Trump.....

Mayor Pete had a fancy dinner at the Hall-Rutherford Winery this past Sunday.  Craig and Kathryn Hall have donated a bunch of money to the Democrats over the years, enough for Ms. Hall to be named by Pres. Clinton ambassador to Austria.  (cf. Sundland, who donated $1 million to the Trump inauguration, enough to be named ambassador to the EU).

All of these politicians sell ambassadorships.  This is not news.

In any event, Mayor Pete has chosen an excellent winery.  Trump doesn't drink wine.  I'm with Mayor Pete in this regard.

The Old Man posted:
flwino posted:

We may have to drink US wine, if as rumored that the orange man wants a 100% duty on all European wines.  Will kill my budget for sure

He's not orange. He has already explained that his unique orange glow is because of high efficiency light bulbs that the government has forced America to use. Damn environmentalists.

And don't get me started on all that needless toilet flushing.

flwino posted:

We may have to drink US wine, if as rumored that the orange man wants a 100% duty on all European wines.  Will kill my budget for sure

I was just reading about that. The part of the article that made my eyes go wide was about consumers being shielded from the previous 25% increase in tariffs because vintners and importers swallowed it.  Better margins than I thought in imported wine.

patespo1 posted:
flwino posted:

We may have to drink US wine, if as rumored that the orange man wants a 100% duty on all European wines.  Will kill my budget for sure

I can now justify to my wife all of the wine in our cellar, I was just planning years ahead of the 100% duty!  

Touché. With a cellar deep in French, Italian and Spanish I am not worried and this idiot will be out of office long before I could ever ‘need’ any wine!

wineart 2 posted:
patespo1 posted:
flwino posted:

We may have to drink US wine, if as rumored that the orange man wants a 100% duty on all European wines.  Will kill my budget for sure

I can now justify to my wife all of the wine in our cellar, I was just planning years ahead of the 100% duty!  

Touché. With a cellar deep in French, Italian and Spanish I am not worried and this idiot will be out of office long before I could ever ‘need’ any wine!

And you've got all that delicious shiraz and zin to fall back on too!  

The deed is done and Trump is impeached.  Won't get rid of him but will ensure that in future decades people will understand what a horrible President and person he was, a stain on his presidency by which all but the most rabid Trumpanzees will judge him. Provided he loses the next election perhaps the nation will heal, the Republicans will return to being a conservative party, and the US can begin to regain respect and, I hope, its leadership role in the world, rather than China or Russia.  

But something in today's vote surprised me:  why did 30 Republicans not vote?  Swing districts?  A sudden fit of conscience?  An ill-timed bathroom break?  

bman posted:

The deed is done and Trump is impeached.  Won't get rid of him but will ensure that in future decades people will understand what a horrible President and person he was, a stain on his presidency by which all but the most rabid Trumpanzees will judge him. Provided he loses the next election perhaps the nation will heal, the Republicans will return to being a conservative party, and the US can begin to regain respect and, I hope, its leadership role in the world, rather than China or Russia.  

 

Do you really think so regarding a stain on his presidency?  Clinton was impeached (and committed an actual crime), was disbarred, and it hasn't affected his legacy one iota.  If anything, he's more popular.  The people that hate Trump will continue to do so and use this as evidence to support their position.  As will those that love him (will call the impeachment a witch hunt by the Dems, especially once he's acquitted in the Senate). 

I'm also not so sure Trump loses the next election.  His popularity/approval is going up, and its independents that are giving him the bump.  The Dems should be worried.    

bman posted:

But something in today's vote surprised me:  why did 30 Republicans not vote?  Swing districts?  A sudden fit of conscience?  An ill-timed bathroom break?  

I think you miscounted, bman.  There were a total of 3 "no-votes" in all of Congress.  2 Rs and 1 D.  Gabbard (D) voted "present".  There are currently 4 empty seats in Congress.  

PH

csm posted:
bman posted:

The deed is done and Trump is impeached.  Won't get rid of him but will ensure that in future decades people will understand what a horrible President and person he was, a stain on his presidency by which all but the most rabid Trumpanzees will judge him. Provided he loses the next election perhaps the nation will heal, the Republicans will return to being a conservative party, and the US can begin to regain respect and, I hope, its leadership role in the world, rather than China or Russia.  

 

Do you really think so regarding a stain on his presidency?  Clinton was impeached (and committed an actual crime), was disbarred, and it hasn't affected his legacy one iota.  If anything, he's more popular.  The people that hate Trump will continue to do so and use this as evidence to support their position.  As will those that love him (will call the impeachment a witch hunt by the Dems, especially once he's acquitted in the Senate). 

I'm also not so sure Trump loses the next election.  His popularity/approval is going up, and its independents that are giving him the bump.  The Dems should be worried.    

Clinton's poll numbers remained at a very high level even after impeachment. However, though it's taken decades, his general sliminess (toward women) has finally caught up with him. He will not be at anyone's primary campaign stops and he sure won't be speaking at the Democratic convention.

"The Dems should be worried." Of course they should be worried. The impeachment of this malignant tumor will not lead to its removal. First there's going to be a year of his revenge and continuous abuse of the agencies of government (can you impeach a president a second time? Yes, but to what end?) Second, of course there's an very good chance he'll be reelected. (If you read my comment about one of the lessons of the movie Chinatown is that the bad guys sometimes win.) However, this was not done to win the 2020 election; it was done because it had to be done. At some point in this Gahan Wilson type slime creature's presidency it was finally say enough is enough. One of the big lies by the sycophantic enablers is that the Democrats always wanted to do this. (Partly because one Dem Representative wacko tried to bring it to the floor on "day one.") Nobody should be happy about this impeachment, but simply resigned to the fact that there was no choice. "I'd like you to do us a favor though..." 

Last edited by The Old Man
The Old Man posted:
"The Dems should be worried." Of course they should be worried. The impeachment of this malignant tumor will not lead to its removal. First there's going to be a year of his revenge and continuous abuse of the agencies of government (can you impeach a president a second time? Yes, but to what end?) Second, of course there's an very good chance he'll be reelected. (If you read my comment about one of the lessons of the movie Chinatown is that the bad guys sometimes win.) However, this was not done to win the 2020 election; it was done because it had to be done. At some point in this Gahan Wilson type slime creature's presidency it was finally say enough is enough. One of the big lies by the sycophantic enablers is that the Democrats always wanted to do this. (Partly because one Dem Representative wacko tried to bring it to the floor on "day one.") Nobody should be happy about this impeachment, but simply resigned to the fact that there was no choice. "I'd like you to do us a favor though..." 

I think you're giving Pelosi and her crew far too much credit on this one.  

By the way, Clinton was not disbarred (shockingly). He was suspended from the practice of law in Arkansas, where he had not practiced for a long time, for 5 years, with a right to reapply after that 5 year suspension. He has not reapplied.   Thus he remains "suspended." He has no interest in practicing law. He might have been stricken from his membership in the bar of the Supreme Court, which he never exercised and also has no interest in exercising.

He clearly committed perjury. He lied under oath.  He certainly should have been disbarred, prosecuted, convicted, and punished.  And maybe beaten with a whip.

 

irwin posted:

By the way, Clinton was not disbarred (shockingly). He was suspended from the practice of law in Arkansas, where he had not practiced for a long time, for 5 years, with a right to reapply after that 5 year suspension. He has not reapplied.   Thus he remains "suspended." He has no interest in practicing law. He might have been stricken from his membership in the bar of the Supreme Court, which he never exercised and also has no interest in exercising.

He clearly committed perjury. He lied under oath.  He certainly should have been disbarred, prosecuted, convicted, and punished.  And maybe beaten with a whip.

 

No need to worry about Dump being disbarred. Too dump to have any chance of even grad school, much less a J.D. 🤣

Of course Clinton never ran a Ponzi scheme university, had it closed and ordered to pay millions in refunds like the Dump, or ran a fraud charity like the Dump that has been closed, still under investigation, millions in fines pending plus told he will never be allowed to apply for such again. The conman has too many despicable things tied to him for any one person to match. 

arsenal4ever posted:

Under oath: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

Nope. That sentence was not said under oath. However, he did lie under oath about having sex with that woman.

"In his own way, Slick Willie was the Dumpster 20 years early"

Minus the racism, bigotry, know-nothingism, support of white nationalists, mockery of POWs and other military heroes, admiration of despots and dictators, mistreatment of allies, ten to twenty lies and misstatements (lies) daily, and demagoguery. Other than that, just the same.

arsenal4ever posted:

Whatever. Clinton lied under oath and was charged with perjury and obstruction of justice. Your hatred knows no bounds though. I often wonder if you ever learned how to use copy and paste as the same words/ phrases are in all of your political posts. Save yourself time typing...

 

"Whatever, [I just make stuff up to make a point."]

Hatred of who? I do not hate the pussy-grabber in chief. I think he is immoral, a racist, a bigot, a sexist, a know-nothing, and a demagogue, but I don't hate him. I've never even met him. I actually don't think I currently hate anyone, but there are certainly people I dislike. I'm sure given a half a chance you could be one of them.

Last edited by The Old Man

Lying under oath about an unrelated consensual sexual relationship is bad.  

But, the false equivalency of that as contrasted with - extorting an ally by withholding Congressionally mandated military aid for a hot conflict with a mutual adversary in order to compel the ally to dig up dirt on a political opponent - is outrageous.  

The lack of perspective, contextual consideration, and ability to judge severity, required to conflate these things is mind-boggling and paints a picture of a deteriorating liberal democracy.

Trump is substantially more despicable than Clinton in my view.  Trump attacks every other living thing personally. "Crooked Hillary, Lyin' Ted, Sleepy Joe".  Fiorina- "look at that face"., As to John McCain, "I like people who weren't captured." Today, John Dingell is in hell. Little Marco, etc., etc. etc.  You could go on and on.

What kind of person does this? Someone who is terminally insecure.  He is a fountain of hate. 

 

 

The Old Man posted:
arsenal4ever posted:

Whatever. Clinton lied under oath and was charged with perjury and obstruction of justice. Your hatred knows no bounds though. I often wonder if you ever learned how to use copy and paste as the same words/ phrases are in all of your political posts. Save yourself time typing...

 

"Whatever, [I just make stuff up to make a point."]

Hatred of who? I do not hate the pussy-grabber in chief. I think he is immoral, a racist, a bigot, a sexist, a know-nothing, and a demagogue, but I don't hate him. I've never even met him. I actually don't think I currently hate anyone, but there are certainly people I dislike. I'm sure given a half a chance you could be one of them.

Unfortunately, I have spent multiple days with him and can in no uncertain terms state that he is a despicable person with no redeeming qualities

irwin posted:

By the way, Clinton was not disbarred (shockingly). He was suspended from the practice of law in Arkansas, where he had not practiced for a long time, for 5 years, with a right to reapply after that 5 year suspension. He has not reapplied.   Thus he remains "suspended." He has no interest in practicing law. He might have been stricken from his membership in the bar of the Supreme Court, which he never exercised and also has no interest in exercising.

He clearly committed perjury. He lied under oath.  He certainly should have been disbarred, prosecuted, convicted, and punished.  And maybe beaten with a whip.

 

The Supreme Court disbarred him.  You are correct about the state bar of Arkansas.  He's not practicing so it's irrelevant, but he should have been disbarred completely.  Committing perjury is unforgiveable for a lawyer.  Whip might have been a touch excessive (and enjoyed by the slickster).

jcocktosten posted:

Not really sure what Clinton has to do with the current situation.  In addition to everything else, he did not destabilize our system of government; attack the free press;  appoint completely incompetent people to every post; fill the judiciary with moronic ideologues . . .

It's all the Trumpers have.  "Don't look at my guy, look at your guy".  Hell, they're still chanting Lock Her Up.  Taking a page from their personal Jesus, if the facts aren't on your side, yell, scream, deny, etc. etc.  Pathetic. 

patespo1 posted:
jcocktosten posted:

Not really sure what Clinton has to do with the current situation.  In addition to everything else, he did not destabilize our system of government; attack the free press;  appoint completely incompetent people to every post; fill the judiciary with moronic ideologues . . .

It's all the Trumpers have.  "Don't look at my guy, look at your guy".  Hell, they're still chanting Lock Her Up.  Taking a page from their personal Jesus, if the facts aren't on your side, yell, scream, deny, etc. etc.  Pathetic. 

I forgot to mention antagonize all of our allies, and cozy up with our enemies - and believe every word Putin says to him.

irwin posted:

Trump is substantially more despicable than Clinton in my view.  Trump attacks every other living thing personally. "Crooked Hillary, Lyin' Ted, Sleepy Joe".  Fiorina- "look at that face"., As to John McCain, "I like people who weren't captured." Today, John Dingell is in hell. Little Marco, etc., etc. etc.  You could go on and on.

What kind of person does this? Someone who is terminally insecure.  He is a fountain of hate. 

 

 

irwin, those are some of the orange Dump’s better traits. Before his Ponzi scheme university was closed down he stole millions from fools that sent him money. The courts forced the conman to pay millions in penalties. The orange Dump ran a fraud charity that he used illegally to benefit himself and avoid taxes. This too has been shut down and penalties are pending. The conman cannot ever open a charity again per the state of New York. If was a simple fraud. 

Federal judge William Pauley III said in open court that Trump directed his lawyer to commit a federal felony thus making Trump a co-conspirator in a federal crime. Trump’s lawyers did not take issues with this statement and of coarse Cohen is serving time for a crime that benefitted only Trump, not himself. 

The POS is a grifter and a conman and is no republican. 

jcocktosten posted:
patespo1 posted:
jcocktosten posted:

Not really sure what Clinton has to do with the current situation.  In addition to everything else, he did not destabilize our system of government; attack the free press;  appoint completely incompetent people to every post; fill the judiciary with moronic ideologues . . .

It's all the Trumpers have.  "Don't look at my guy, look at your guy".  Hell, they're still chanting Lock Her Up.  Taking a page from their personal Jesus, if the facts aren't on your side, yell, scream, deny, etc. etc.  Pathetic. 

I forgot to mention antagonize all of our allies, and cozy up with our enemies - and believe every word Putin says to him.

I don't know if Trump actually believes what Putin tells him or if he goes along with Putin because of the original quid pro quo:  Putin will get Trump elected (which it can be argued he did through massive fake social media fake identities and posts in key swing states along with other election interference well documented by every American security agency) provided Trump follows his lead as President.  That and the likely fact that Putin has real dirt on Trump that he can expose at any time.  It will be interesting to see, once Trump is out of office, if Russia shares some of that dirt just for the hell of it.

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