Many Rabbinic authorities do not regard electronic representations of God as the same as written ones, for technical scientific computerese kinds of reasons.  If there are hairs to split, we split them.

If I am typing on the internet, like E-mail or these posts, I spell it out. If I am preparing a document that I will print out, I hyphenate.  Just a ridiculous distinction.

Many, if not most, religious rules make no logical sense.

 

 

The world leaders at NATO mock and ridicule Trump on the world stage yesterday and play him for the buffoon his truly is. 

Macron fact checks the orange conman in a live interview and tells the village idiot to get serious, Trudeau mocked him with other world leaders, UK PM Johnson refused to be photographed with him and refused to greet him upon his arrival at the door at 10 Downing Street. 🤣

Trump is now being called Homer Simpson by Princess Anne and PM Rutte. Priceless!  Republican Conway states “ the world thinks you are incompetent, ignorant, dumb, deranged buffoon- and they are right, and you prove it to them every day.”  #truth

Hopefully Trump studied up on how to spell NATO last night as world leaders LOL if he could spell such! 🤔😂🤣

wineart 2 posted:

The world leaders at NATO mock and ridicule Trump on the world stage yesterday and play him for the buffoon his truly is. 

Macron fact checks the orange conman in a live interview and tells the village idiot to get serious, Trudeau mocked him with other world leaders, UK PM Johnson refused to be photographed with him and refused to greet him upon his arrival at the door at 10 Downing Street. 🤣

Trump is now being called Homer Simpson by Princess Anne and PM Rutte. Priceless!  Republican Conway states “ the world thinks you are incompetent, ignorant, dumb, deranged buffoon- and they are right, and you prove it to them every day.”  #truth

Hopefully Trump studied up on how to spell NATO last night as world leaders LOL if he could spell such! 🤔😂🤣

All true.  And sadder is the fact that the world is laughing at and mocking Trump inevitably means they are mocking America itself, because America elected him, after all. That demeaning of America in the eyes of the world empowers anti-democratic and downright evil forces in the world.  That makes America and the world less safe and secure, and will have negative consequences for all that is right and good for decades to come.

bman posted:
wineart 2 posted:

The world leaders at NATO mock and ridicule Trump on the world stage yesterday and play him for the buffoon his truly is. 

Macron fact checks the orange conman in a live interview and tells the village idiot to get serious, Trudeau mocked him with other world leaders, UK PM Johnson refused to be photographed with him and refused to greet him upon his arrival at the door at 10 Downing Street. 🤣

Trump is now being called Homer Simpson by Princess Anne and PM Rutte. Priceless!  Republican Conway states “ the world thinks you are incompetent, ignorant, dumb, deranged buffoon- and they are right, and you prove it to them every day.”  #truth

Hopefully Trump studied up on how to spell NATO last night as world leaders LOL if he could spell such! 🤔😂🤣

All true.  And sadder is the fact that the world is laughing at and mocking Trump inevitably means they are mocking America itself, because America elected him, after all. That demeaning of America in the eyes of the world empowers anti-democratic and downright evil forces in the world.  That makes America and the world less safe and secure, and will have negative consequences for all that is right and good for decades to come.

True, yet the same America voted into office Carter, Reagan, George H.W.Bush, Bill Clinton, George Bush and Obama in my voting lifetime.  

America IMO had two dreadful candidates in 2016 and both had ( have) extremely high disapproval numbers.  In the 2016 election, 72,519,874 voted against Trump and 62,980,160 voted for Trump.  What I struggle with is the fact that even though I do not like Clinton has absolutely nothing to do with holding Trump accountable. Trump is the president and should be held accountable, regardless. Clinton has ZERO to do with Trump and his actions. 

wineart 2 posted:
bman posted:
wineart 2 posted:

The world leaders at NATO mock and ridicule Trump on the world stage yesterday and play him for the buffoon his truly is. 

Macron fact checks the orange conman in a live interview and tells the village idiot to get serious, Trudeau mocked him with other world leaders, UK PM Johnson refused to be photographed with him and refused to greet him upon his arrival at the door at 10 Downing Street. 🤣

Trump is now being called Homer Simpson by Princess Anne and PM Rutte. Priceless!  Republican Conway states “ the world thinks you are incompetent, ignorant, dumb, deranged buffoon- and they are right, and you prove it to them every day.”  #truth

Hopefully Trump studied up on how to spell NATO last night as world leaders LOL if he could spell such! 🤔😂🤣

All true.  And sadder is the fact that the world is laughing at and mocking Trump inevitably means they are mocking America itself, because America elected him, after all. That demeaning of America in the eyes of the world empowers anti-democratic and downright evil forces in the world.  That makes America and the world less safe and secure, and will have negative consequences for all that is right and good for decades to come.

True, yet the same America voted into office Carter, Reagan, George H.W.Bush, Bill Clinton, George Bush and Obama in my voting lifetime.  

America IMO had two dreadful candidates in 2016 and both had ( have) extremely high disapproval numbers.  In the 2016 election, 72,519,874 voted against Trump and 62,980,160 voted for Trump.  What I struggle with is the fact that even though I do not like Clinton has absolutely nothing to do with holding Trump accountable. Trump is the president and should be held accountable, regardless. Clinton has ZERO to do with Trump and his actions. 

Indeed.  But Trump's embarrassing legacy will not begin to fade until America elects a President the world can respect.  Given the Republicans sell-out to Trump and the overall polarization of the American body politic, I'm afraid that will likely take a while whoever is President after 2020.

wineart 2 posted:

The world leaders at NATO mock and ridicule Trump on the world stage yesterday and play him for the buffoon his truly is. 

Macron fact checks the orange conman in a live interview and tells the village idiot to get serious, Trudeau mocked him with other world leaders, UK PM Johnson refused to be photographed with him and refused to greet him upon his arrival at the door at 10 Downing Street. 🤣

Trump is now being called Homer Simpson by Princess Anne and PM Rutte. Priceless!  Republican Conway states “ the world thinks you are incompetent, ignorant, dumb, deranged buffoon- and they are right, and you prove it to them every day.”  #truth

Hopefully Trump studied up on how to spell NATO last night as world leaders LOL if he could spell such! 🤔😂🤣

When I read that, I was dying from laughing so hard.  Nothing gets done until the people who are represented by Senators and House of Reps supporting the Orange Clown are voted out.  It's not just the Presidency.  

bman posted:
wineart 2 posted:
bman posted:
wineart 2 posted:

The world leaders at NATO mock and ridicule Trump on the world stage yesterday and play him for the buffoon his truly is. 

Macron fact checks the orange conman in a live interview and tells the village idiot to get serious, Trudeau mocked him with other world leaders, UK PM Johnson refused to be photographed with him and refused to greet him upon his arrival at the door at 10 Downing Street. 🤣

Trump is now being called Homer Simpson by Princess Anne and PM Rutte. Priceless!  Republican Conway states “ the world thinks you are incompetent, ignorant, dumb, deranged buffoon- and they are right, and you prove it to them every day.”  #truth

Hopefully Trump studied up on how to spell NATO last night as world leaders LOL if he could spell such! 🤔😂🤣

All true.  And sadder is the fact that the world is laughing at and mocking Trump inevitably means they are mocking America itself, because America elected him, after all. That demeaning of America in the eyes of the world empowers anti-democratic and downright evil forces in the world.  That makes America and the world less safe and secure, and will have negative consequences for all that is right and good for decades to come.

True, yet the same America voted into office Carter, Reagan, George H.W.Bush, Bill Clinton, George Bush and Obama in my voting lifetime.  

America IMO had two dreadful candidates in 2016 and both had ( have) extremely high disapproval numbers.  In the 2016 election, 72,519,874 voted against Trump and 62,980,160 voted for Trump.  What I struggle with is the fact that even though I do not like Clinton has absolutely nothing to do with holding Trump accountable. Trump is the president and should be held accountable, regardless. Clinton has ZERO to do with Trump and his actions. 

Indeed.  But Trump's embarrassing legacy will not begin to fade until America elects a President the world can respect.  Given the Republicans sell-out to Trump and the overall polarization of the American body politic, I'm afraid that will likely take a while whoever is President after 2020.

No argument from me. My fear is no one that truly has a chance to win election is that person. 

Like JFK or not, he was polished and clearly an intellectual capable of playing on the world stage. Like George H.W. Bush or not, he was a highly politically savvy politician that understood global affairs. Like Bill Clinton or not, he was very often the smartest person in the room and very capable of any mental gymnastics required. Clinton also had a balanced budget in 1998,1999 and 2000.  Another trait smart people tend to do in all walks of life is to surround themselves with other smart people. Conversely, people like Trump that aren’t bright are very uncomfortable around obviously bright people. They feel inadequate and uncomfortable. They sue to make sure their academic records are never released. They refuse to even listen to people smarter in any subject and reject briefings and intelligence reports. Trump clearly is such a person and the reason he lashes out in anger. I seriously cannot imagine what Angela Merkel must think and say behind closed doors about Trump. 

Buttigieg is obviously a highly intellectual person ( Harvard, Oxford, Rhodes Scholar, Intelligence Officer) yet has limited political experience and people like uneducated Trump supporters care with whom he sleeps with. They don’t care that Trump sleeps and pays off whores, dumps his wives when they no longer serve his needed image and degrades women on a weekly basis. 

You are correct, the next president not named Trump will have their hands full cleaning up the global shit storm, the record debt Trump is running up, repairing the state department, the national security department, the intelligence department and the FBI just to name a few. In the meantime, farmers are filing bankruptcy at a 24% increase under Trump and Trump has given away more taxpayers money to farmers due to his idiotic tariffs than America gave to the automakers during the Great Recession. 

doubled posted:
wineart 2 posted:

The world leaders at NATO mock and ridicule Trump on the world stage yesterday and play him for the buffoon his truly is. 

Macron fact checks the orange conman in a live interview and tells the village idiot to get serious, Trudeau mocked him with other world leaders, UK PM Johnson refused to be photographed with him and refused to greet him upon his arrival at the door at 10 Downing Street. 🤣

Trump is now being called Homer Simpson by Princess Anne and PM Rutte. Priceless!  Republican Conway states “ the world thinks you are incompetent, ignorant, dumb, deranged buffoon- and they are right, and you prove it to them every day.”  #truth

Hopefully Trump studied up on how to spell NATO last night as world leaders LOL if he could spell such! 🤔😂🤣

When I read that, I was dying from laughing so hard.  Nothing gets done until the people who are represented by Senators and House of Reps supporting the Orange Clown are voted out.  It's not just the Presidency.  

DD, the good news is that not all have to be defeated. Trump has already lost the House and the Senate is barely in his favor with a few republicans like Romney, Collins and others not a guaranteed vote. Trump is also upset that the governor of Georgia is picking a senator he doesn’t want and look out for the elections coming in Arizona. All you need is the majority.

Also don’t overlook the two governor’s recently elected as democrats in deep red states of Louisiana and Kentucky. 

It is also just the president on climate change, Iran nuclear deal, North Korea, tariffs, not believing your own intelligence reports on Russia et al. Hell, even ole Lindsey Graham slapped down Trump today on his insane conspiracy BS and Russia. 

I'd vote for a tree stump if it would get rid of Trump.  If elected, he will be the first elected dictator of the US.  Sad but true.  This impeachment needs to get done.  If he wins, it will give him carte blance for any further immoral actions.

The trial in the Senate is already looking bad, keeping it to two weeks, and the GOP and trump allies are setting the rules for a trial. 

flwino posted:

The trial in the Senate is already looking bad, keeping it to two weeks, and the GOP and trump allies are setting the rules for a trial. 

It was always "looking bad." There is no way it's going to end in anything but an acquittal by the craven Senate Trumpublicans. We all know it. However, the demagogue's actions call for this fruitless exercise to go forward.

wineart 2 posted:

DD, the good news is that not all have to be defeated. Trump has already lost the House and the Senate is barely in his favor with a few republicans like Romney, Collins and others not a guaranteed vote. Trump is also upset that the governor of Georgia is picking a senator he doesn’t want and look out for the elections coming in Arizona. All you need is the majority.

Also don’t overlook the two governor’s recently elected as democrats in deep red states of Louisiana and Kentucky. 

It is also just the president on climate change, Iran nuclear deal, North Korea, tariffs, not believing your own intelligence reports on Russia et al. Hell, even ole Lindsey Graham slapped down Trump today on his insane conspiracy BS and Russia. 

While the recent elections have been encouraging, it's still a stretch to think that Dems will take the Senate in Nov 2020.  As long as Mitch is the Majority Leader, there isn't a whole lot of legislation getting done.  And if there aren't 67 Senate votes to impeach Trump for Ukraine, what will stop him for moving on to the next violation.  

doubled posted:
wineart 2 posted:

DD, the good news is that not all have to be defeated. Trump has already lost the House and the Senate is barely in his favor with a few republicans like Romney, Collins and others not a guaranteed vote. Trump is also upset that the governor of Georgia is picking a senator he doesn’t want and look out for the elections coming in Arizona. All you need is the majority.

Also don’t overlook the two governor’s recently elected as democrats in deep red states of Louisiana and Kentucky. 

It is also just the president on climate change, Iran nuclear deal, North Korea, tariffs, not believing your own intelligence reports on Russia et al. Hell, even ole Lindsey Graham slapped down Trump today on his insane conspiracy BS and Russia. 

While the recent elections have been encouraging, it's still a stretch to think that Dems will take the Senate in Nov 2020.  As long as Mitch is the Majority Leader, there isn't a whole lot of legislation getting done.  And if there aren't 67 Senate votes to impeach Trump for Ukraine, what will stop him for moving on to the next violation.  

2020. Oh, God, please!

wineart 2 posted:

America IMO had two dreadful candidates in 2016 and both had ( have) extremely high disapproval numbers.  In the 2016 election, 72,519,874 voted against Trump and 62,980,160 voted for Trump.  What I struggle with is the fact that even though I do not like Clinton has absolutely nothing to do with holding Trump accountable. Trump is the president and should be held accountable, regardless. Clinton has ZERO to do with Trump and his actions. 

That is the problem I see shaping up with 2020. Once again, neither party seems capable of coming up with a candidate that I feel comfortable voting for, rather than against. 

Political Third Parties have not gained much traction in the past 100 years or so, but unless things change quickly, I fear for the future of the Republic. 

mneeley490 posted:
wineart 2 posted:

America IMO had two dreadful candidates in 2016 and both had ( have) extremely high disapproval numbers.  In the 2016 election, 72,519,874 voted against Trump and 62,980,160 voted for Trump.  What I struggle with is the fact that even though I do not like Clinton has absolutely nothing to do with holding Trump accountable. Trump is the president and should be held accountable, regardless. Clinton has ZERO to do with Trump and his actions. 

That is the problem I see shaping up with 2020. Once again, neither party seems capable of coming up with a candidate that I feel comfortable voting for, rather than against. 

Political Third Parties have not gained much traction in the past 100 years or so, but unless things change quickly, I fear for the future of the Republic. 

I too am concerned. 

wineart 2 posted:
mneeley490 posted:
wineart 2 posted:

America IMO had two dreadful candidates in 2016 and both had ( have) extremely high disapproval numbers.  In the 2016 election, 72,519,874 voted against Trump and 62,980,160 voted for Trump.  What I struggle with is the fact that even though I do not like Clinton has absolutely nothing to do with holding Trump accountable. Trump is the president and should be held accountable, regardless. Clinton has ZERO to do with Trump and his actions. 

That is the problem I see shaping up with 2020. Once again, neither party seems capable of coming up with a candidate that I feel comfortable voting for, rather than against. 

Political Third Parties have not gained much traction in the past 100 years or so, but unless things change quickly, I fear for the future of the Republic. 

I too am concerned. 

Two things. 

1) Given Trump and his enablers, for the sake of the republic, *any* Democrat is better than Trump, and all of Trump’s sycophants (which is virtually every nationally elected Republican) must be voted out. *Then*, we can deal with the policy excesses of the political left. 

Anyone who knows me knows that, as a classical liberal in the vein of John Stewart Mill, I, too am concerned about the far Left. I cannot stand the politics of anger and grievance ideologies (something the Right, of course, has perfected with White working class grievances 24/7 on FoxNews).  Nor can I stomach the Left anti-science nor anti-debate crowd.  (Ahem, political Right.)  The curtailing of speech, vigilantism, forced walking on eggshells, absolutist and black and white thinking, and abandonment of principles of due process when inconvenient — all of which are things I once would have associated almost exclusively to the political Right are present now on the Left, and it is scary to me.  And the extremist policies (for example, right now the very wealthiest people are actually being taxed *less* than the average American) and isolationist tendencies of certain people on the Left is deeply troubling to me as well.  Plus, there is a real problem with rising anti-semetism on the Left.  (Did you read what Trump called Jews today?  And the Tree of Life synagogue and and...)

I get that there is a lot of trouble on the Left; but Twitter (and unfortunately some elite universities) is not indicative of where most of the Democratic party stands. Virtually 100% of nationally elected Democrats have shown no hint of contempt for the rule of law.  Such a basic principle, but one an entire political party is abandoning. And even in the Democratic primary, which has a farther Left leaning than the entirety of people who vote Democrat, Bernie and Warren combined have never hit 40% in the polls and are often more around 30% — and some of Bernie’s draw is from culturally more conservative White working class. 

The American Democratic Party is still, in aggregate, a law-abiding, liberal, center-left party. The Republican party has abandoned morality and law-abiding as central tenets of governance. And at its helm is a man who is not only racist (as if that isn’t enough) but is both an imbecile and ignoramous in the truest senses of those words, and who suffers from narcissistic personality disorder. 

Right now “a pox on both their houses” is mind-numbingly ignorant. And the only way to right the ship is to vote out Trump and his R supporters. After that, we can focus on the excesses of the far Left. But beyond being less dangerous and less pervasive in the party, that is not the immediate problem we, as a nation face. 

2) The UK. After this election, I’m sure we can all agree, we’re all going to have to make sure the Democratic Party does not become the Labour Party. It *isn’t* that. But we have a real need to keep it from becoming that. The fact that despite everything, I wouldn’t be able to vote Labour in the upcoming UK election is gut-wrenching. (Obviously, I would vote LibDem even if I lived in an area where it would got to someone who wouldn’t win, because I wouldn’t be able to vote Tory either and, really, a hung Parliament is the best outcome. Their election process is even stupider than ours.)

winetarelli posted:
wineart 2 posted:
mneeley490 posted:
wineart 2 posted:

America IMO had two dreadful candidates in 2016 and both had ( have) extremely high disapproval numbers.  In the 2016 election, 72,519,874 voted against Trump and 62,980,160 voted for Trump.  What I struggle with is the fact that even though I do not like Clinton has absolutely nothing to do with holding Trump accountable. Trump is the president and should be held accountable, regardless. Clinton has ZERO to do with Trump and his actions. 

That is the problem I see shaping up with 2020. Once again, neither party seems capable of coming up with a candidate that I feel comfortable voting for, rather than against. 

Political Third Parties have not gained much traction in the past 100 years or so, but unless things change quickly, I fear for the future of the Republic. 

I too am concerned. 

Two things. 

1) Given Trump and his enablers, for the sake of the republic, *any* Democrat is better than Trump, and all of Trump’s sycophants (which is virtually every nationally elected Republican) must be voted out. *Then*, we can deal with the policy excesses of the political left. 

Anyone who knows me knows that, as a classical liberal in the vein of John Stewart Mill, I, too am concerned about the far Left. I cannot stand the politics of anger and grievance ideologies (something the Right, of course, has perfected with White working class grievances 24/7 on FoxNews).  Nor can I stomach the Left anti-science nor anti-debate crowd.  (Ahem, political Right.)  The curtailing of speech, vigilantism, forced walking on eggshells, absolutist and black and white thinking, and abandonment of principles of due process when inconvenient — all of which are things I once would have associated almost exclusively to the political Right are present now on the Left, and it is scary to me.  And the extremist policies (for example, right now the very wealthiest people are actually being taxed *less* than the average American) and isolationist tendencies of certain people on the Left is deeply troubling to me as well.  Plus, there is a real problem with rising anti-semetism on the Left.  (Did you read what Trump called Jews today?  And the Tree of Life synagogue and and...)

I get that there is a lot of trouble on the Left; but Twitter (and unfortunately some elite universities) is not indicative of where most of the Democratic party stands. Virtually 100% of nationally elected Democrats have shown no hint of contempt for the rule of law.  Such a basic principle, but one an entire political party is abandoning. And even in the Democratic primary, which has a farther Left leaning than the entirety of people who vote Democrat, Bernie and Warren combined have never hit 40% in the polls and are often more around 30% — and some of Bernie’s draw is from culturally more conservative White working class. 

The American Democratic Party is still, in aggregate, a law-abiding, liberal, center-left party. The Republican party has abandoned morality and law-abiding as central tenets of governance. And at its helm is a man who is not only racist (as if that isn’t enough) but is both an imbecile and ignoramous in the truest senses of those words, and who suffers from narcissistic personality disorder. 

Right now “a pox on both their houses” is mind-numbingly ignorant. And the only way to right the ship is to vote out Trump and his R supporters. After that, we can focus on the excesses of the far Left. But beyond being less dangerous and less pervasive in the party, that is not the immediate problem we, as a nation face. 

2) The UK. After this election, I’m sure we can all agree, we’re all going to have to make sure the Democratic Party does not become the Labour Party. It *isn’t* that. But we have a real need to keep it from becoming that. The fact that despite everything, I wouldn’t be able to vote Labour in the upcoming UK election is gut-wrenching. (Obviously, I would vote LibDem even if I lived in an area where it would got to someone who wouldn’t win, because I wouldn’t be able to vote Tory either and, really, a hung Parliament is the best outcome. Their election process is even stupider than ours.)

+1 on all points above.  Though I'm not as worried as you re the far left tendencies of certain Democrats.  I'm confident nothing toooooo far left would be implemented.  Yes, is happened with the Republicans but they have been far more morally corrupt than the Dems for a while.  And none of the Dem candidates are like Trump.

winetarelli posted:

Two things. 

1) Given Trump and his enablers, for the sake of the republic, *any* Democrat is better than Trump, and all of Trump’s sycophants (which is virtually every nationally elected Republican) must be voted out. *Then*, we can deal with the policy excesses of the political left. 

 

That is the lone issue that non-Trumpers should ask themselves in 2020.  Put aside any differences that you have with a candidate's other positions.  If you are waiting for your perfect candidate, guess what will happen?

arsenal4ever posted:

Lots of Independents, who again will decide the 2020 elections, can't stomach the positions of the either the Far Left or the Far Right.

True, and that's a good thing. But the far right is in power and the far left is not and will not be in power. So those independents should be voting Dem next year. 

arsenal4ever posted:

Lots of Independents, who again will decide the 2020 elections, can't stomach the positions of the either the Far Left or the Far Right.

We who don't support the racist, bigoted, sexist, know-nothing, demagogue in Chief have an advantage in that the titular head of our party, Nancy Pelosi, is not a racist a bigot a sexist, know-nothing nor a demagogue. At the least we have a moral advantage.

The Old Man posted:
arsenal4ever posted:

Lots of Independents, who again will decide the 2020 elections, can't stomach the positions of the either the Far Left or the Far Right.

We who don't support the racist, bigoted, sexist, know-nothing, demagogue in Chief have an advantage in that the titular head of our party, Nancy Pelosi, is not a racist a bigot a sexist, know-nothing nor a demagogue. At the least we have a moral advantage.

Are kidding me?   You stand with this woman Pelosi?  Really sad!  Oh God.  How do you Democrat’s take anyone in your party seriously?  They are all clowns! 

wineartelli is right to be worried...you guys are extreme and no one likes what they are promoting. Good luck...you’ll need it.  Get ready for four more years of fun!

napacat posted:
The Old Man posted:
arsenal4ever posted:

Lots of Independents, who again will decide the 2020 elections, can't stomach the positions of the either the Far Left or the Far Right.

We who don't support the racist, bigoted, sexist, know-nothing, demagogue in Chief have an advantage in that the titular head of our party, Nancy Pelosi, is not a racist a bigot a sexist, know-nothing nor a demagogue. At the least we have a moral advantage.

Are kidding me?   You stand with this woman Pelosi?  Really sad!  Oh God.  How do you Democrat’s take anyone in your party seriously?  They are all clowns! 

wineartelli is right to be worried...you guys are extreme and no one likes what they are promoting. Good luck...you’ll need it.  Get ready for four more years of fun!

I’ve really tried to bend over backwards to stay out of the fray. And I’ve even bonded with thistlintom over our mutual appreciation of Jonathan Haidt. But your willingness to read what I wrote and take it so far out of context is emblematic of your, and elected Republicans’ reasoning. The entire basis of my previous post was to acknowledge troubling elements of the political left while continuously pointing out that such elements are meaningless when compared to the moral abyss of the modern Republican party. The false equivalencies, out of context quotes, and asymmetrical standards are all the Republican party has — aside, of course, from a grotesque malignant narcissist who is the laughing stock of the international community.

If John Kasich... or Mitt Romney, or John McCain, or Jeb Bush were President no one would be talking politics on this board. I’d be upset, but we’d all carry on with our days. Even in the W era no-one cared to discuss it on this board. Trump and his accomplices are unique in their malevolence and, thus far and hopefully continued, incompetence. 

I know this is pointless with you.  But even if you are too far gone to be reached, I hope some can be saved. 

Last night my wife and I went to a local diner for dinner.  We each ordered a beer and the waiter asked to see our IDs to verify that we were 21 years old.   After dinner we went grocery shopping and since it was Tuesday, the store gives a senior citizen discount.   We got that without showing an ID card. 

Now, granted, some time passed between ordering the beer, eating and going to the grocery store but not that much. 

 

 

irwin posted:

Last night my wife and I went to a local diner for dinner.  We each ordered a beer and the waiter asked to see our IDs to verify that we were 21 years old.   After dinner we went grocery shopping and since it was Tuesday, the store gives a senior citizen discount.   We got that without showing an ID card. 

Now, granted, some time passed between ordering the beer, eating and going to the grocery store but not that much. 

 

 

Well, I completely understand one of your experiences!🙃

napacat posted:
The Old Man posted:
arsenal4ever posted:

Lots of Independents, who again will decide the 2020 elections, can't stomach the positions of the either the Far Left or the Far Right.

We who don't support the racist, bigoted, sexist, know-nothing, demagogue in Chief have an advantage in that the titular head of our party, Nancy Pelosi, is not a racist a bigot a sexist, know-nothing nor a demagogue. At the least we have a moral advantage.

Are kidding me?   You stand with this woman Pelosi?  Really sad!  Oh God.  How do you Democrat’s take anyone in your party seriously?  They are all clowns! 

wineartelli is right to be worried...you guys are extreme and no one likes what they are promoting. Good luck...you’ll need it.  Get ready for four more years of fun!

Nappy, you're reading ability is so obviously flawed. If I have a choice between a racist, bigoted, sexist, know-nothing demagogue (ie your hero) and a person who is fighting against a racist, bigoted , sexist, know-nothing demagogue, I'm going with the latter. I can link dozens and dozens of examples of your hero's racism, bigotry, sexism, know-nothing-ism ( and antisemitism) and demagoguery. I'm pretty sure you'd have a hard time finding any of that with Pelosi. But that's the boy you support. That's the type of person you are.

And here, genius that you are, is what you've got, "They all are clowns!" A hyperbolic ad hominem attack. You sure are smart.

 

wineart 2 posted:

Greta Thunberg Time magazine person of the year.

I was thinking the Hong Kong protesters might be the selection. 

The unfortunate reality is that the person with the most impact on the world this year was either Trump or Putin. And it will remain that way until Trump leaves office. 

I think Greta is great, but I see no impact. A ’person of the year’ should, in some way, move the needle. 

winetarelli posted:
wineart 2 posted:

Greta Thunberg Time magazine person of the year.

I was thinking the Hong Kong protesters might be the selection. 

The unfortunate reality is that the person with the most impact on the world this year was either Trump or Putin. And it will remain that way until Trump leaves office. 

I think Greta is great, but I see no impact. A ’person of the year’ should, in some way, move the needle. 

We may not see her impact for years, as certainly she is inspiring other young people to become activists. 

patespo1 posted:
winetarelli posted:
wineart 2 posted:

Greta Thunberg Time magazine person of the year.

I was thinking the Hong Kong protesters might be the selection. 

The unfortunate reality is that the person with the most impact on the world this year was either Trump or Putin. And it will remain that way until Trump leaves office. 

I think Greta is great, but I see no impact. A ’person of the year’ should, in some way, move the needle. 

We may not see her impact for years, as certainly she is inspiring other young people to become activists. 

It's a little premature to see what impact Ms. Thunberg will have.  In Oct. 2009, President Obama was given the Nobel Peace Prize after about 9 months or so in office. The committee cited some anti-nuclear proliferation things and the President's "reaching out" to the Muslim world.  It was in anticipation of hoped for great impact. This is similar.

It would be a good thing if we took climate change, rising oceans, and ever increasingly dramatic and destructive storms more seriously. Will we? We shall see.

 

irwin posted:

Wine spectator reports that President Trump is now considering a 100% tariff on all European wines.  If someone would just tell him that this might help Nancy Pelosi's constituents in Napa, he might change his mind.

Jesus. 

In other news, nice to be reminded that we don’t have THE dumbest voting system in the democratized world.  

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