The Old Man posted:winetarelli posted:The Old Man posted:winetarelli posted:wineart 2 posted:The Old Man posted:
I know we're all (almost all) having a jolly old time with the latest foibles of the bigot in chief. But I have to throw a little cold water in here. First, as I've said many times before: The craven Republicans will continue to be party before country and do everything to protect their bill-signer in chief.
Second, there's a whole heap of stupidity among the American electorate.
I would add the democrats must elect a person that can compete/ carry many states in the rust belt. Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio plus purple states like Virginia, Florida, Colorado and New Mexico and others will not support too left candidates or socialists platform candidates.
I totally agree with this. However, I would add that I think the bigger problem Democrats face in general — and particularly in the rust belt — is in addressing the cultural far left as opposed to the economic far left.
While I have problems with any form of extremism or staunch ideological stances, it is far-left, often authoritarian, cultural issues that, in my estimation, cause so many to refuse to vote for Democrats. I’m not talking about reproductive rights, or prison reform or abolition of the Death Peanalty, (sic) or same-sex marriage, or combatting (sic) climate change, or treating immigrants and refugees (including “illegal” immigrants) humanely and often with open arms. Those are all basic moral/ethical issues and I think there are enough people in the rust belt open to all of them that those and issues such as those really aren’t a problem
But instead: ‘accidental mispronunciation of a name “is violence”’ — like so many other examples of being offended; Liberals like Frank Bruni, Bari Weiss, Jonathan Haidt “are Alt-Right or Alt-Right adjacent”; shouting down speakers at colleges is acceptable; BDS and creeping acceptance of nonviolent anti-semetism; Absurdity in public education - eg. Just today in Seattle... Math classes in K-12 should incorporate ethnic studies teaching including, “Where does power and oppression show up in our math experiences?” “Why/how does data-driven processes prevent liberation?”* “Who gets to say if an answer is right?” Teachers should accept late work because it “refuse[s] the White Gaze.”
Obviously, even amongst most Ds, the aforementioned examples are totally absurd. But they are very real in certain parts of the country and amongst enough Leftists that (1) they should actually be addressed and, perhaps more importantly (2) they are used by Fox News and other Right-Wing media agencies to scare people— especially those in the Rust Belt whose interests otherwise coincide with the Democratic Party — into the arms of the Republican party.
*Obviosly, grammar is not Seattle educators’ strong suit, either.
Hogwash. Most of this could have been written by the nauseating Trumpers at my synagogue. The president of the USA calls the legal process of a "lynching" and his sycophantic golf buddy Lindsey Graham agrees and you're worried about some stupid actions taken by a school district in WA? Get your priorities straight.
Whoa there! I’m currently dedicating much of my life — both time and money —to defeating Trump no matter who the D nominee is. (Right now that means giving money to, and volunteering for Biden almost solely due to my belief that he has the best chance of beating Trump. But come the general, I’ll be doing that for whomever the nominee is.) That doesn’t change the fact that I have (a) some problems with people nominally on “my team” and (b) serious concerns about how people in the rust belt can be swayed to (re) vote for Trump based upon how Right Wing media reports on the excesses of some factions of the cultural far left.
If you really couldn’t tell from me calling Trump the “malevolent cheetoh”, referencing every major politically salient point on the political D agenda as ones which I support, and implying here, and noting elsewhere, that it is only a small but vocal contingent on the “far left” that I have any personal objection to, that I am at least left-of-center and certainly in opposition to Trump under all scenarios, I think you need to take a breath. There is no point in letting Trump turn you into a moron, too. (In point of fact, I’m a life-long Democrat who went door-to-door for Human Rights Campaign in Ohio in the 90’s before I could even vote, in support of gay marriage; played Phil Ochs on my guitar at Kucinich rallies; spent my college summers working for the state PIRGs and the Sierra Club; worked on the Kerry campaign as my first job out of college; worked on the Obama campaign; my three major charities are the ADL, the ACLU, and Planned Parenthood; I held rallies starting a decade before the crash in opposition to minimum-balance oppression; I have marched with BLM. My Liberal and Democratic credentials are in order, let alone, my anti-Trump credentials.)
OK, but it sure read like you're lapping up Fox New's talking points. Maybe you should reread what your wrote. FWIW your past actions having nothing to do with my point here--it was what you said, not what you've done in the past that I was addressing--and a load of it was horse manure.
Everything I said was factually true. You might think it irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. I think it is irrelevant regarding elections, but not entirely irrelevant regarding a cultural conversation. The point is, I’m a Liberal who would never-in-a-million-years vote for Tump and I said true things and you immediately attacked me. Maybe you are more comfortable scolding and name calling; but I can assure you that friendly engagement including —at least — thoughtful replies to others’ concerns is how you go about convincing people to vote for your side. If people on the Left are so blinded by Trump that they start in with other people who have vowed to do everything in their power to stop Trump, or begin denying reality as well, we are all doomed.
(If you need documentation of the other things I mention I’ll happily oblige.)
Edited to add: The point I had initially been making was that I believe a candidate who can have an authentic “Sista Soldjah” (sp?) - like moment with regards to the cultural far-left, or who otherwise is not enmeshed with the cultural far left, stands a better chance of winning in the Rust Belt than a more economically moderate candidate who is fully enmeshed with that sort of nonsense. Though, ideally, a moderately liberal candidate all-around would be ideal. A different way of putting this is that Sherrod Brown always crushes it in Ohio, despite being politically quite Left. I don’t think Gillibrand (who, of course, has already dropped out) would have that same success despite having a more “moderate” political record.