@napacat posted:

Rice is a terrible choice...as is Warren.  All of Wall Street said they were voting for Trump if she was the nominee and I would bet the same if VP.  Oh pick Pocahontas...please.

The below is a good read and timely:  

https://www.newsmax.com/bernar...019/01/22/id/899297/

That is an  interesting  piece, Napacat.  Mr. Floyd wasn't shot.  That fellow in New York, Eric Garner, wasn't shot.  Here in Baltimore, Freddie Gray wasn't shot. I don't keep data on this, but if you don't think that the police rough up, choke, kick, beat, and otherwise assault African American men at an unreasonable rate, and that they don't stop them and arrest them at unreasonable rates and for little cause, and stop them and so forth, then you are dwelling in an alternative universe.

Is it November yet?

@irwin posted:

That is an  interesting  piece, Napacat.  Mr. Floyd wasn't shot.  That fellow in New York, Eric Garner, wasn't shot.  Here in Baltimore, Freddie Gray wasn't shot. I don't keep data on this, but if you don't think that the police rough up, choke, kick, beat, and otherwise assault African American men at an unreasonable rate, and that they don't stop them and arrest them at unreasonable rates and for little cause, and stop them and so forth, then you are dwelling in an alternative universe.

Is it November yet?

African Americans are 4 times as likely to be stopped by the police for infractions and drug-use crimes (holding per capita infraction/use rates constant).  This, itself, leads to disparate outcomes.

Holding income and population density constant, police are only slightly more likely to use lethal force against a black person. *However* “income and population density” (ie. living in a ghetto) is a part of American institutional racism that should be addressed.  Also, being poor Or living in an urban center should not make your life less worthy.

Since 2015, when there were 40 cases of unarmed black people killed by the police, the number has dropped. It was 9 in 2019. And, of course, this also happens to white people (although at a lower rate).  But, beyond that still being unacceptable, there are other biases in the criminal justice system against black people such as those mentioned above and increased average sentences for the same crimes as white counterparts. 

The way *some* police have responded to these protests is to attack nonviolent protesters. There are enough videos of police essentially starting riots right now that no sane person could come to any conclusion other than major reforms need to take place in our policing.  Like all the peaceful protesters essentially not being covered by the news, I’m sure all the good policing is being given the same treatment.  But there is simply too much bad policing (often more based upon “authority” than overt racism) on display right now to turn a blind eye.

I remain deeply concerned about increases in COVID rates and death due to the timing of these protests. More African Americans have died of Coronavirus in the past 3 months than died at police hands (unarmed AND armed) and hate crimes and domestic terrorism in the past 20 years combined. I understand the pain and frustration, but all evidence is that these protests will result in years if not decades worth of equivalent death over the course of the coming months. But, given that the protests did happen, I certainly hope they bring about real change in how policing works in this country and open up a path to combating racism beyond issues of lethal police force. 

@irwin posted:

That is an  interesting  piece, Napacat.  Mr. Floyd wasn't shot.  That fellow in New York, Eric Garner, wasn't shot.  Here in Baltimore, Freddie Gray wasn't shot. I don't keep data on this, but if you don't think that the police rough up, choke, kick, beat, and otherwise assault African American men at an unreasonable rate, and that they don't stop them and arrest them at unreasonable rates and for little cause, and stop them and so forth, then you are dwelling in an alternative universe.

Is it November yet?

That's true Irwin.  I think what happened to Mr. Floyd was disgusting and reprehensible.  For Mr. Garner, doesn't seem as cut and dry to me.  They tried to cooperate with him for 30+ minutes prior to him being placed in a choke hold.  Now, it can be debated whether any of that was necessary for selling individual cigarette.  

Freddie Gray...don't have enough info to discuss here.  I know the police rough up some suspects.  I know that African Americans are stopped for little cause...I just don't think the vast majority of police are looking to give AA  a hard time every day for the fun of it.

My point in general was there does not need to be a massive overhaul of  police departments across the U.S.  

Schumer this am stated that "the vast majority of the protesters are good and decent people".  Yet, he cannot extend or extrapolate the same outlook to the police in this country.    

Has anyone seen the police in NY picking up the piles of bricks that have been dropped off at locations to be used to smash windows and cause major damage?  

I will still chose to align myself on the side of law enforcement.  They are overall an amazing group of people.

@winetarelli posted:

Actually, I think it will be Warren. Although Susan Rice would be my choice. 

Problem for Dems if Warren gets added to the Biden ticket is that the Republican governor of Massachusetts gets to choose who replaces her Senate seat.  The chances of Charlie Baker choosing another Democrat are slim to none, and slim left the building awhile ago.  

Biden’s campaign has a major Gordian knot of which female VP candidate to choose.  Kamala Harris gives you zero (and quite possibly, negative) bounce in the crucial swing/purple states.  Her record as District Attorney of San Francisco and Attorney General of California isn’t appreciably better than Klobuchar’s checked history as a County Attorney in MN.  Klobuchar otherwise would be a shoo-in IMO, as she provides Midwestern resonance/balance to the ticket.  

I personally think Biden goes with a minority for his pick.  That puts Val Demings, Keisha Lance Bottoms and Susan Rice also into the mix amongst African-Americans (Stacey Abrams isn’t well known enough IMO), with Catherine Cortez Masto and Michelle Lujan Grisham the top contenders amongst Latinas.  If there are no major skeletons in her closet, I’ll speculate that  Grisham would be the choice.  The title of governor will almost always have the most gravitas amongst politicians at the non-federal level (Sarah Palin notwithstanding).   

How about Condoleeza Rice?  Brilliant woman.  A moderate, centrist Republican.  She'd bring crossover appeal, strong international experience, a tremendous knowledge of Russia, and would cover the African American woman angle quite nicely.  Just a thought...

PH

@purplehaze posted:

How about Condoleeza Rice?  Brilliant woman.  A moderate, centrist Republican.  She'd bring crossover appeal, strong international experience, a tremendous knowledge of Russia, and would cover the African American woman angle quite nicely.  Just a thought...

PH

Not a bad idea at all.  But Biden said he wanted someone ready to govern on Day One should something happen to him, which I would take to mean someone who has had to make hard decisions in a previous job.  Don't think she ticks that box, ditto most senators and congressmen.  Exceptions would be Harris, who was Attorney General, and the governors, none of whom are African American (you see where I'm going with this.....)

@purplehaze posted:

How about Condoleeza Rice?  Brilliant woman.  A moderate, centrist Republican.  She'd bring crossover appeal, strong international experience, a tremendous knowledge of Russia, and would cover the African American woman angle quite nicely.  Just a thought...

PH

Never going to happen

@jcocktosten posted:

Never going to happen

Yeah... I know.  Neither would Barack Obama (that pesky 22nd Amendment) but it's fun to think about.  Meanwhile, I'm guessing it's going to be Harris.  I'm pretty sure that the current environment almost requires that Biden choose a black woman or other woman of color.

PH

@bman posted:

But Biden said he wanted someone ready to govern on Day One should something happen to him, which I would take to mean someone who has had to make hard decisions in a previous job.  Don't think she ticks that box...

Secretary of State for 4 years and National Security Advisor for 4  years.  Between those two, I consider the box checked.  

PH

Last edited by purplehaze
@napacat posted:

 

My point in general was there does not need to be a massive overhaul of  police departments across the U.S.  

Schumer this am stated that "the vast majority of the protesters are good and decent people".  Yet, he cannot extend or extrapolate the same outlook to the police in this country.    

Has anyone seen the police in NY picking up the piles of bricks that have been dropped off at locations to be used to smash windows and cause major damage?  

I will still chose to align myself on the side of law enforcement.  They are overall an amazing group of people.

It does, you need to get rid of all police unions.  Even in the midst of this, they're still stoking the police to pursue more violence.

You honestly need better news sources.

Pilles of bricks, so conveniently arranged and "strategically placed" in very neat piles on pallets surrounded by construction barricades on the side walk right next to a build with scaffolding up.  What would be the simplest explanation for this?  

1.  NY has stopped construction because of corona virus so there are piles of neatly arranged bricks on pallets right outside the construction site.

2.  Someone figured out a way to lift, hoist, 10000 pounds of bricks into a truck, then used either a pallet jack or a fork lift to get it back out again in front of a building construction site?  Because it sounds like you've never done any sort of brick work before.  It's heavy and it's no fun "transporting" around unless  you have the proper tools and since NY is under no construction phase still, the cops would easily if people are driving around with forklifts.  It's even less fun removing it brick by brick and neatly arranging them onto a pallet by hand.

There are also supposedly "proof" of photos showing broken up concrete in blue recycle bins "strategically" placed areas around the city.  More than a few councilmen have visited these photos in their district and they pan across to, you guessed it, construction activity, in this case illegal, but at least there was a brand new concrete sidewalk in the place of the debris.  Also amusing though is that these "criminals" happen to have NY City issued recycle bins meant for debris and so neatly placed the rather large broken concrete pieces into a pile and arranged them neatly right in front of a new side walk.

And your attitude is endemic to the situation at hand.  No one is saying all cops are bad.  Life isn't a duality.  Only those who are ignorant, think that it is , and usually for the sake of stubbornness ensuring that society never moves toward a better place.  What we are saying is that a group of folks who have been entrusted to maintain society, must include everyone in society.  A group of folks who have legally been given lethal weapons to enforce society's rules must be held to a higher standard, which means 1 bad cop is still unacceptable, and having unions protect these bad cops is even more unacceptable.  NY City alone has paid out more than 1 Billion in civil lawsuits stemming from police brutality.  The police, their pensions  and unions paid exactly 0$ in all of these.   This would be a systemic problem, and one that does require massive overhaul of the system.

 

Last edited by g-man
@purplehaze posted:

Secretary of State for 4 years and National Security Adviser for 4  years.  Between those two, I consider the box checked.  

PH

??? Compared to a conman that has filed bankruptcy 6 times in his business career, had a reality TV show, ran a fraud charity that had to be disbanded and millions paid in fines, ran a fraud university that also had to be closed and paid a $25 million fine, writes checks to whores to keep there story out of the news and......  

Rice can’t be qualified, PH!🤣😂

@purplehaze posted:

Yeah... I know.  Neither would Barack Obama (that pesky 22nd Amendment) but it's fun to think about.  Meanwhile, I'm guessing it's going to be Harris.  I'm pretty sure that the current environment almost requires that Biden choose a black woman or other woman of color.

PH

I'm certainly no Constitutional law scholar, but the 22nd Amendment says:

"No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of President more than once."

It doesn't prohibit someone from being elected Vice-President, and it doesn't prohibit a Vice-President from assuming the office of President.  It only prohibits being elected to the office more than twice, and distinguished between being elected to the Presidency versus holding the office or acting as President.

I'm sure someone has looked into that.

 

@purplehaze posted:

Secretary of State for 4 years and National Security Advisor for 4  years.  Between those two, I consider the box checked.  

PH

If she made her own foreign policy decisions in either of those jobs then fine. But I expect the President had the last word. In any case, I'd be fine with her or Susan Rice but not sure Biden would consider either to be ready on Day One to be President. 

An hour or so ago Senator Murkowski and John Kelly went to bat for Mattis and directly challenged Trump on his tweets attacking him. 

The veins on Trump's neck must be about to pop!  

@g-man posted:

It does, you need to get rid of all police unions.  Even in the midst of this, they're still stoking the police to pursue more violence.

You honestly need better news sources.

Pilles of bricks, so conveniently arranged and "strategically placed" in very neat piles on pallets surrounded by construction barricades on the side walk right next to a build with scaffolding up.  What would be the simplest explanation for this?  

1.  NY has stopped construction because of corona virus so there are piles of neatly arranged bricks on pallets right outside the construction site.

2.  Someone figured out a way to lift, hoist, 10000 pounds of bricks into a truck, then used either a pallet jack or a fork lift to get it back out again in front of a building construction site?  Because it sounds like you've never done any sort of brick work before.  It's heavy and it's no fun "transporting" around unless  you have the proper tools and since NY is under no construction phase still, the cops would easily if people are driving around with forklifts.  It's even less fun removing it brick by brick and neatly arranging them onto a pallet by hand.

There are also supposedly "proof" of photos showing broken up concrete in blue recycle bins "strategically" placed areas around the city.  More than a few councilmen have visited these photos in their district and they pan across to, you guessed it, construction activity, in this case illegal, but at least there was a brand new concrete sidewalk in the place of the debris.  Also amusing though is that these "criminals" happen to have NY City issued recycle bins meant for debris and so neatly placed the rather large broken concrete pieces into a pile and arranged them neatly right in front of a new side walk.

And your attitude is endemic to the situation at hand.  No one is saying all cops are bad.  Life isn't a duality.  Only those who are ignorant, think that it is , and usually for the sake of stubbornness ensuring that society never moves toward a better place.  What we are saying is that a group of folks who have been entrusted to maintain society, must include everyone in society.  A group of folks who have legally been given lethal weapons to enforce society's rules must be held to a higher standard, which means 1 bad cop is still unacceptable, and having unions protect these bad cops is even more unacceptable.  NY City alone has paid out more than 1 Billion in civil lawsuits stemming from police brutality.  The police, their pensions  and unions paid exactly 0$ in all of these.   This would be a systemic problem, and one that does require massive overhaul of the system.

 

Most construction sites I see are guarded with a fence and secured.  I don;t see any construction sites in FL that have piles of bricks in the open on the sidewalk.  I also don't see videos of police taking and hauling the piles away.  Nice try.

The protest is nonsense. 99% agree that this murder was wrong.  Ignore the other part of my statement.  The left is far to willing to say there are many many more good protesters than to say the same of the police.  FU...i'm on the side of the police.  If there are a few bad cops then we should do our best to rid them out.    But to want to de-fund the police...no.  Not right.  

How about a protest against the looters that killed the police officer in St. Louis.  This is outright anarchy and I am for the full force of the police department to shut it down.  

@Rothko posted:

I'm certainly no Constitutional law scholar, but the 22nd Amendment says:

"No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of President more than once."

 

You're way more qualified than I am, Rothko.  Adding a little complexity is the last sentence of the 12th Amendment:

But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

Is Obama constitutionally ineligible?  The 22nd Amendment specifies that, "no person shall be elected more than twice.  Obama would certainly not be eligible to run for President in 2024, but it just might be possible for him to be on the ticket as Veep.  He would certainly be a huge asset to Biden in getting elected.  At this point, as the Lincoln Project intones at the end of many of their recent videos, it's America or trump.  Their most recent release...  Check out their other videos.  Very powerful stuff, especially coming from Republicans.

I'd be interested in the opinion of the Trump supporters here about the Lincoln Project.  

Flush the turd on November 3rd!

PH

 

@bman posted:

An hour or so ago Senator Murkowski and John Kelly went to bat for Mattis and directly challenged Trump on his tweets attacking him. 

The veins on Trump's neck must be about to pop!  

That would be a pity! 

@bman posted:

If she made her own foreign policy decisions in either of those jobs then fine. But I expect the President had the last word. In any case, I'd be fine with her or Susan Rice but not sure Biden would consider either to be ready on Day One to be President. 

Based on this argument Biden wouldn't pick himself as VP, b-man.  

And your granddaughter is more qualified to be president than the sad, scared little man occupying our White House.  #BunkerBoy

PH

@purplehaze posted:

Not if we got to watch.  

PH

If we get to watch, it would be second to watching the gnashing of teeth from his little cult and them turning over every rock looking for their conspiracy theory. 🤣

@purplehaze posted:

Based on this argument Biden wouldn't pick himself as VP, b-man.  

And your granddaughter is more qualified to be president than the sad, scared little man occupying our White House.  #BunkerBoy

PH

If you were on Facebook you could see how wonderful she is for yourself! 

@The Old Man posted:

Someone beat me to this response, what about when he was actually in the administration and had power? No that's not when he spoke up.

High ranking active duty military folk just don't make comments on politics. Retired high ranking military carry this reluctance with them into retirement, often for the rest of their lives.  Different circumstances call for different behavior.

I think that Mathis, and subsequently Kelly spoke up recently for two reasons:

1 - Any immediate criticism of #BunkerBoy after their departure from service could have easily been spun as "sour grapes," by the idiot-in-chief and his Faux News allies.

2 - I truly believe that they held their responsibility to remain apolitical until circumstances left them no choice.

I've had the opportunity to get to know more than a few generals and admirals.  It's amazing to me that the further up the food chain you go in the military, the less rigid most of these people are in their political thinking.

PH

Last edited by purplehaze
@bman posted:

If you were on Facebook you could see how wonderful she is for yourself! 

I don't do Facebook sir.  However if you would send me a picture or two, I could see for myself.  Ahem...

PH

@napacat posted:

Most construction sites I see are guarded with a fence and secured.  I don;t see any construction sites in FL that have piles of bricks in the open on the sidewalk.  I also don't see videos of police taking and hauling the piles away.  Nice try.

The protest is nonsense. 99% agree that this murder was wrong.  Ignore the other part of my statement.  The left is far to willing to say there are many many more good protesters than to say the same of the police.  FU...i'm on the side of the police.  If there are a few bad cops then we should do our best to rid them out.    But to want to de-fund the police...no.  Not right.  

How about a protest against the looters that killed the police officer in St. Louis.  This is outright anarchy and I am for the full force of the police department to shut it down.  

Once again

You are not here.  You have 0 credibility for those of us actually here.  And are you seriously comparing comparing the scope of construction that happens in new york compared to florida?

Does florida even have 1/100th the amount of brick buildings in new york?

 

Your comments, once again, shows how poorly informed you are.  

@napacat posted:

Rice is a terrible choice...as is Warren.  All of Wall Street said they were voting for Trump if she was the nominee and I would bet the same if VP.  Oh pick Pocahontas...please.

The below is a good read and timely:  

https://www.newsmax.com/bernar...019/01/22/id/899297/

I give up. Why did anyone address this post seriously? It starts with a bigoted slur and then links to a 15 month right-wing echo chamber story. We should thank Napa for the deep understanding we're getting about the shallowness of thinking of Trump supporters.. Before this he cut and pasted a long article from the Washington Sentinel (whatever that is.) He parrots Fox "News" talking points. He prevaricates when he doesn't want to address a direct question. He's still talking about Hillary for godsakes. He, like many (most?) Trump supporters, is a bigot (if you use bigoted phrases, like his hero does, that makes you a bigot too.) It's all pretty simple, you admire a man who muses about drinking household cleaners or you don't.

Last edited by The Old Man

Baxj to random and off topic.  I find it funny that napacat thinks hes actually qualified to call others on this forum "left"

Not sure if Condoleezza Rice resonates with African American voters.  I’d be curious what the polls would say.  If Chappelle were to do the Race Draft 2020, Rice would be selected by white people.  For the record, I do like Rice, but I’m Asian.  Lol

@doubled posted:

Not sure if Condoleezza Rice resonates with African American voters.  

Not sure either.  I am sure she'd resonate better than Klobuchar.  And there are always these examples to consider: 

This

vs.

This

PH

Last edited by purplehaze

Some real scary protestors in my area today.  Full marching band with horns, drums, speeches and clapping.  Our cops were busy infiltrating right by the protestors having real mean laughing conversation with their fellow community members

My choice for vp would be Tammy duckworth.  Helicopter pilot, double amputee, half Thai and has a bunch of military and other relevant job experiences.   Has a dozen medals.  Apparently she had no bone spurs. 

Is it November yet?

@irwin posted:

My choice for vp would be Tammy duckworth.  Helicopter pilot, double amputee, half Thai and has a bunch of military and other relevant job experiences.   Has a dozen medals.  Apparently she had no bone spurs. 

Is it November yet?

Definitely my choice for VP

The Old Man: "I'm afraid there's a chance that today's shit-show is a test for using the military if Trump loses, or looks like he's going to lose, the election. Everyday this paranoiac idea seems more possible.""
@napacat posted:

"You are a paranoid fool!"

Fellow paranoid fool and four star general John Allen: "The slide of the United States into illiberalism may well have begun on 1 June 2020. Remember the date. It may well signal the beginning of the end of the American experiment."
Last edited by The Old Man

irony is calling someone a paranoid fool but worrying about would be protestors that may riot and loot just because a few bad apples??

24 protests across my county today. 8000+ people total.  0 property damage, 0 arrests, a few grumpy old folks giving middle fingers but alot of good spirits and community all around.

I wish I had a dollar for every time someone here said they are done with the troll. When will you guys actually get with the program and stop responding to him. Take away his audience and he’ll have nothing. Are you all not smart enough to figure that out?

@bomba503 posted:

I wish I had a dollar for every time someone here said they are done with the troll. When will you guys actually get with the program and stop responding to him. Take away his audience and he’ll have nothing. Are you all not smart enough to figure that out?

Woke af you are. 😂

@The Old Man posted:
Fellow paranoid fool and four star general John Allen: "The slide of the United States into illiberalism may well have begun on 1 June 2020. Remember the date. It may well signal the beginning of the end of the American experiment."

Still a paranoid fool....if Trump loses...he walks away.  As is expected.

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×