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It was a horrible day for democracy and our country. The sooner Trump leaves, the better.

Trump’s comments to these thugs; “ You’re so very special. We love you.” What a sick fuck!

The Wall Street Journal called for Trump to resign today.

This will be his legacy, period. He attempted to overthrow an election. He will forever be heard telling a Republican election official to find him 11,000 plus votes and seen on video telling his cult on march to the U.S. Capitol ( he would be with them) to influence the certifying of the election. He called on his Vice President to break the Constitution of the United States. This is his legacy.

Now, we have the death of one of the Capitol police from this insurrection.

@wine+art posted:

Trump’s comments to these thugs; “ You’re so very special. We love you.” What a sick fuck!

The Wall Street Journal called for Trump to resign today.

This will be his legacy, period. He attempted to overthrow an election. He will forever be heard telling a Republican election official to find him 11,000 plus votes and seen on video telling his cult on march to the U.S. Capitol ( he would be with them) to influence the certifying of the election. He called on his Vice President to break the Constitution of the United States. This is his legacy.

Now, we have the death of one of the Capitol police from this insurrection.

All true. And yet millions of Americans will continue to believe his lies and vote for whoever he supports unless others take this opportunity to persuade them that they've been conned and now need to see the truth.

Let this sink in.

"The siege of the Capitol by supporters of President Donald Trump this week captured the nation’s deep political divide in dramatic terms: 45% of Republicans supported the break-in, while just 2% of Democrats did, according to a YouGov poll of 1,397 registered voters released on Wednesday night."

45% of Republicans support an attack, in which five people died, on the second most important building in our government.

Last edited by The Old Man
@patespo1 posted:

Protests for racial injustice vs. Domestic Terrorism on the Capitol.  Not exactly apples to apples (not to be argumentative).

Not to be argumentative; Trump called for 10 years in prison for anyone that damaged any federal property or monument during protest throughout the nation prior to his personal insurrection.

Has anyone heard such this past week? I did hear him say, “ you’re special people. We love you.” I can only imagine how the family of officer Sicknick feels. Did I miss the president offering his deep felt condolences for the murder?

Last edited by wine+art

From your response, I'm not sure I made myself clear in what I was asking. But I did find this article from 538 (not sure if they support one side or the other, or if that even matters). It was written in June, so a lot has happened since then, but it does show an analysis of how Democrats and Republicans viewed the protests at that time. To me, it shows another reason why we are so split as a country.

Republicans And Democrats Agree On The Protests But Not Why People Are Protesting | FiveThirtyEight

@wine+art posted:

Not to be argumentative; Trump called for 10 years in prison for anyone that damaged any federal property or monument during protest throughout the nation prior to his personal insurrection.

Has anyone heard such this past week? I did hear him say, “ you’re special people. We love you.” I can only imagine how the family of officer Sicknick feels. Did I miss the president offering his deep felt condolences for the murder?

And now a second Capital police officer has died - by suicide after the invasion of the building last week.

What those who equate the summer demonstrations and what happened last week miss is that the former was spontaneous and in response to the killing of African Americans by police, while the latter was planned by a group of people who believed lies told by Trump, who then told them to March on the Capital and be strong. He also told them he would go with them....

From your response, I'm not sure I made myself clear in what I was asking. But I did find this article from 538 (not sure if they support one side or the other, or if that even matters). It was written in June, so a lot has happened since then, but it does show an analysis of how Democrats and Republicans viewed the protests at that time. To me, it shows another reason why we are so split as a country.

Republicans And Democrats Agree On The Protests But Not Why People Are Protesting | FiveThirtyEight

Clearly we are a split country, there is no question. 

I'm struggling to understand why anyone would compare what happened this summer with what happened at the Capitol. 

Protests and Terrorism are not the same thing. 

@bman posted:

What those who equate the summer demonstrations and what happened last week miss is that the former was spontaneous and in response to the killing of African Americans by police...

We watched a man murdered under the knee of a renegade cop. I've never seen anything like that and I'm guessing most of America hasn't either. I don't know how you could not protest that.

Not sure if we have anyone here from Portland, Oregon, but there were protests there which turned violent, caused significant property destruction and loss of life. Protests which turn violent are called "riots".  I don't know all of the details, of course.  Perhaps if we have an Oregano (or whatever you call someone from Oregon) here, he/she can comment.

I guess I didn't make the point very well, or phrased my question very well. When TOM posted earlier today the results of a YouGov poll showing 45% of Republicans supported the Capitol riots and only 2% of Democrats did, I thought it would be informative, since we're talking about divisiveness in the country, if such a poll existed that showed the same party breakdowns for the summer protests/ riots. I thought the article from 538 was most telling.

@wine+art posted:

Not to be argumentative; Trump called for 10 years in prison for anyone that damaged any federal property or monument during protest throughout the nation prior to his personal insurrection.

Has anyone heard such this past week? I did hear him say, “ you’re special people. We love you.” I can only imagine how the family of officer Sicknick feels. Did I miss the president offering his deep felt condolences for the murder?

Surely coming right after he goes on national television to urge calm among his subhuman shitstain followers over the next week. Any minute now, I’m guessing.

I guess I didn't make the point very well, or phrased my question very well. When TOM posted earlier today the results of a YouGov poll showing 45% of Republicans supported the Capitol riots and only 2% of Democrats did, I thought it would be informative, since we're talking about divisiveness in the country, if such a poll existed that showed the same party breakdowns for the summer protests/ riots. I thought the article from 538 was most telling.

We buried the hatchet but you still seem to like to play the role of the devil's advocate. Nothing you can post can surpass the horror of 70 million people voting for incredibly horrid human being. And 45% of Republicans are still on board with breaking into our Capitol? I do not think you will find 45% of any people who thought that rioting in Oregon, or anywhere else, was a good idea that they support.

Last edited by The Old Man

TOM - The whole idea behind my question and subsequent posting was to show the divisiveness in this country, and it won't, IMHO, go away with a new President. The two parties and their supporters are light years away from agreeing on just about anything. You are absolutely right that 70 million voted for the idiot, but their thoughts and actions won't disappear. We are horribly split, and I think it will take a generation or two to heal. No animosity on my part.

TOM - The whole idea behind my question and subsequent posting was to show the divisiveness in this country, and it won't, IMHO, go away with a new President. The two parties and their supporters are light years away from agreeing on just about anything.

What do yuo think the breakdown would be if it was segmented by socio/economic bands instead of a simple left/right dem/repub

From the NY Times, "Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, has told associates that he believes President Trump committed impeachable offenses and that he is pleased that Democrats are moving to impeach him, believing that it will make it easier to purge him from the party, according to people familiar with his thinking. The House is voting on Wednesday to formally charge Mr. Trump with inciting violence against the country."

Oh, now it's OK to boot him, now that the snake has bit its tail, it's a little late.

@The Old Man posted:

In a John Frankenheimer movie the Trump Administration would now arrange to have a white Washington DC policeman shoot a black man while arresting him and make sure it's on video. Of course you'll have to declare martial law.

Well, that dean of diplomacy, captain of compassion, genius of generosity, Mr. Mypillow, is apparently advocating just that:  martial law.  How the fuck can anyone wearing a cross around his neck (flaunting it, actually) be so demonic?

Yes, he will be flying to PBI on Wednesday morning and will be staying at Mar-a-Lago.  Not sure how that is going to work since his agreement with the Town of Palm Beach is that he can only live there for 21 days a year.  And the Town will certainly move to enforce the agreement.  So I predict that he will buy another house in Palm Beach nearby and live there, just going to the club in the daytime.

Even if he does make Palm Beach his permanent residence, you won't see him around the Town.  His MO has always been to spend his time almost exclusively at Mar-a-Lago and the Trump golf resort in West Palm Beach.  You never saw him at restaurants or on Worth Avenue or clubs or events outside the walls of Mar-a-Lago.  He was always persona non grata at the other clubs on the island.  The Shiny Sheet had a great article yesterday about how some members of Mar-a-Lago are dropping their memberships; seems like they don't want to be associated with him anymore and the luster of dining next to the President at the club no longer has appeal.  Plus, the planes out of PBI will no longer be diverted away from Mar-a-Lago, so it's going to be noisy again at the club.  The word is also that the City of West Palm is looking into whether they can now terminate the golf course lease for the Trump International club. 

I've heard that Don, Jr. is looking to buy something in Jupiter.  It sure as heck won't be on Jupiter Island, that's for sure. 

And there was an article about how Ivanka and Jared, who are building on Indian Creek, are going to be blackballed at the Indian Creek Country Club - since it only takes one member to blackball and several have already said they would if they applied.  A great quote was from someone saying that they could drive up to Mar-a-Lago to have lunch instead (a long trip for lunch).  Someone else said that, to save face, they shouldn't bother applying to the Indian Creek club at all. 

So, it is going to be interesting to have all of the Trumps down here in South Florida.  The fact is, I think they are going to quickly find that their power and influence will diminish greatly after January 20th.

@Rothko posted:

Yes, he will be flying to PBI on Wednesday morning and will be staying at Mar-a-Lago.  Not sure how that is going to work since his agreement with the Town of Palm Beach is that he can only live there for 21 days a year.  And the Town will certainly move to enforce the agreement.  So I predict that he will buy another house in Palm Beach nearby and live there, just going to the club in the daytime.

Even if he does make Palm Beach his permanent residence, you won't see him around the Town.  His MO has always been to spend his time almost exclusively at Mar-a-Lago and the Trump golf resort in West Palm Beach.  You never saw him at restaurants or on Worth Avenue or clubs or events outside the walls of Mar-a-Lago.  He was always persona non grata at the other clubs on the island.  The Shiny Sheet had a great article yesterday about how some members of Mar-a-Lago are dropping their memberships; seems like they don't want to be associated with him anymore and the luster of dining next to the President at the club no longer has appeal.  Plus, the planes out of PBI will no longer be diverted away from Mar-a-Lago, so it's going to be noisy again at the club.  The word is also that the City of West Palm is looking into whether they can now terminate the golf course lease for the Trump International club.

I've heard that Don, Jr. is looking to buy something in Jupiter.  It sure as heck won't be on Jupiter Island, that's for sure.

And there was an article about how Ivanka and Jared, who are building on Indian Creek, are going to be blackballed at the Indian Creek Country Club - since it only takes one member to blackball and several have already said they would if they applied.  A great quote was from someone saying that they could drive up to Mar-a-Lago to have lunch instead (a long trip for lunch).  Someone else said that, to save face, they shouldn't bother applying to the Indian Creek club at all.

So, it is going to be interesting to have all of the Trumps down here in South Florida.  The fact is, I think they are going to quickly find that their power and influence will diminish greatly after January 20th.

They can buy in Trump Jupiter, free golf, no travel off site.   Stay away from me!!

@billhike posted:

I’m going to try and ignore 45 and his brainless minions going forward. I hope I’m moderately successful as I’m more than ready to turn the page.

With 70% of Republicans believing the Big Lie about the election, that's going to be a hard page to turn. Trump, as we all know and everyone's now seen very clearly, is just a symptom of the cancer lying underneath our society.

@irwin posted:

Biden was inaugurated at about noon. I was driving at about 4PM and turned on a station to get news, and heard a right wing talk show host blasting the Biden policies.  4 hours after he took office.

Geez.

Just saw a guy on Fox say that Biden will be forced by the radical right to implement policies like abortion on demand or after birth. So abortion can be after birth?  I learn so much watching Fox News!!!

Congressman Harris is a very conservative Republican.  I don't live in his district. He lives around 8 miles from our house.  He is Maryland's sole Republican congressman. Maryland is horribly gerrymandered. He is an anesthesiologist by profession and is opposed to universal health insurance.  His District borders the Chesapeake Bay, which is a critical economic area and very important to keep pristine, and he has gotten miserable ratings from environmental groups.  When the House voted 371 to 18 to denounce Q-Anon, he voted "present".  He has opposed any restrictions relating to Covid.  He supports the current dictator in Hungary.  He has pledged to serve only 6 terms, and just got elected to his 6th term. He'll probably run again anyway.  I don't understand why he thinks he needs a gun on the house floor, or in his office, or in committee hearings.  But, his constituents love guns and think the 2nd amendment means that no gun restrictions are permissible. So, this affair yesterday where he tried to bring a gun onto the House floor will probably not matter to his constituents.

I was actually a little surprised how quickly his office was ready for him to sign executive orders that afternoon from the resolute desk.

Makes me wonder what the Pences were up to at the Observatory.  

Either they never sat by the fireplace in their four years there or they just didn't give a shit about having the residence ready for the the new occupants.  Poor form.  No surprise.

PH

CA has paid $11 BILLION in EDD payments, and maybe as much as $30 BILLION, to fraudulent claimants, many who are imprisoned. At the same type, we have botched the vaccine distribution (one of the worst performing states) and have now gone to a third party to straighten the mess out. No telling what that will cost. Don't even ask about the DMV fiasco. So much for the Golden State. It was, in 1960.

CA has paid $11 BILLION in EDD payments, and maybe as much as $30 BILLION, to fraudulent claimants, many who are imprisoned. At the same type, we have botched the vaccine distribution (one of the worst performing states) and have now gone to a third party to straighten the mess out. No telling what that will cost. Don't even ask about the DMV fiasco. So much for the Golden State. It was, in 1960.

What are "EDD" payments?

In the first federal stimulus, payments went to imprisoned people, because the law that was passed did not say they were excluded.  In its haste to provide money to people who need it, the lawmakers and their assistants didn't think through everything. (Hardly novel).

“I just wanted to come today to say thank you to all of you for keeping me and my family safe,” she told them. “I know that you’ve left your home states.”

“The Bidens are a National Guard family,” she added, invoking their late son, Beau, who served in the Delaware Army National Guard.

Welcome to Washington Dr. Biden.

PH

@purplehaze posted:

“I just wanted to come today to say thank you to all of you for keeping me and my family safe,” she told them. “I know that you’ve left your home states.”

“The Bidens are a National Guard family,” she added, invoking their late son, Beau, who served in the Delaware Army National Guard.

Welcome to Washington Dr. Biden.

PH

Well, it's not like Trump and Melania never showed their appreciation to the people who kept them safe, right?  Being such a man of the people and all!!

@The Old Man posted:

199 Republicans voted to support the "Jewish space lasers are causing California's forest fires" lady. Can you say dustbin of history? Might as well call it (as we've been saying) the Trumpublican Party and get it over with. Or perhaps GOP+Q would simply work.

The Old Man:  You might enjoy this column, by one of the columnists of the Baltimore Sun newspaper, my friend, Dan Rodricks.

https://danrodricks.com/2021/0...can-party-1954-2021/

@flwino posted:

Good bye Lou Dobbs!

When you lie daily and your employer is hit with what legal experts say is a lawsuit with teeth ( $2.7B) your POS echo chamber BS will no longer be needed. Don’t forget, Tucker’s own lawyers said in court ‘ everyone knows Tucker isn’t telling the truth, he is an entertainer.’ 🤣  I’m confident the Dump’s supporters on this site didn’t as they often said the same things!

I saw on Newsmax when the “ pillow guy” tried to spread his BS lies and conspiracy shit not only did the Newsmax commentator stop him, he went on to say there is NO factual information to his lying claims.  They too have been sued for spreading lies.

@wine+art posted:

When you lie daily and your employer is hit with what legal experts say is a lawsuit with teeth ( $2.7B) your POS echo chamber BS will no longer be needed. Don’t forget, Tucker’s own lawyers said in court ‘ everyone knows Tucker isn’t telling the truth, he is an entertainer.’ 🤣  I’m confident the Dump’s supporters on this site didn’t as they often said the same things!

I saw on Newsmax when the “ pillow guy” tried to spread his BS lies and conspiracy shit not only did the Newsmax commentator stop him, he went on to say there is NO factual information to his lying claims.  They too until been sued for spreading lies.

Any chance this will lead them to change their behaviour longer term?  Or just for now, until another lying hate-monger replaces Lou or anyone else?  They're making a fortune off their lying and hate-mongering, so I'm not optimistic.

@Rothko posted:

Ted Cruz jetting down to Cancun during the great Texas snowstorm has to be one of the worst optics ever in politics.

He's having a good week:  (A) meeting with the Defense team in a matter on which he is a juror for which he also could  have been charged as an accomplice; (B) voting to acquit someone whose actions led to his peers being held hostage and potentially murdered; and (C) his stupid beard