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I just watched a YouTube video on the problems Disney was having in the last 10 years of Michael Eisner. His best years were at the beginning when he became was hot in his early days as Disney's chairman and CEO with Frank Wells becoming COO and president. Wells tragic death in a helicopter crash in 1994 at 62 years of age gave Eisner a chance to take over full control of the company. A string of 10 years of bad business decisions found him in 2004 with 43% of withholding their proxie votes to re-elect him to the board.

Now we have president, one who was supposedly "hired" for the job for his great business experience and reputation for surrounding himself with only the best. And the result from his denials, and slowness to act and refusal to believe the scientists, and actually musing about injecting household cleaners is thousands of more deaths than there should be and thousands more that will be.

Some of Michael Eisner's poor decisions led to the building on the cheap of California Adventure and Disney Hong Kong. The failed virtual reality entertainment centers called Disney Quest and their losing the crown of best, and most profitable, animation studio. For these things he was gone from the company by 2005.

Now comes our sharp businessman president. His failings have led to the greatest financial crisis since the great depression and tens of thousands of avoidable deaths. Unless you're a pretty dense shareholder it's pretty easy to see where your vote should go.

Last edited by The Old Man

The crazy thing is how copacetic this space would be if Kasich or Huntsman, or even friggin' Jeb were President.  We're all accustomed to having people who love this country but whose politics we disagree with run the place.  We're just not accustomed -- nor should we ever be -- to having villains run the place.  

John McCain's view of Obama was that he is a patriot with whom McCain had strong disagreements.  Unfortunately, fueled by a combination of factors including racial animus, "Conservative" media pounded away at the proposition that Obama was villainous. The greatest President of most of our lifetimes -- according both to scholars as well as to the populace at large -- about a third of the country grew to irrationally disdain.  And those people, making up the vast majority of the Republican Party chose to "get back" at the rest of the country by electing and then propping up the stupidest, most uninformed, most incompetent, most selfish, most psychologically disturbed President in our nation's history.  

I make no secret that there are aspects of the modern Left I find deeply troubling.  Despite having more in common policy-wise with AOC and her ilk, there are basic points of small "l" liberalism that would likely cause me to prefer to throw my lot in with Nicole Wallace, Joe Scarborough, Steve Schmidt, etc and then work them from the left.  But every Republican "Classic", such as I just mentioned,  is a Biden supporter.  Because, as obnoxious as the cultural far-left is, they understand, as do most on this board, that Donald Trump and his cronies represent a threat to the very most basic theories and principles this -- and every -- liberal democracy is founded upon.

@bman posted:

I know you're just trolling us but only a Trumpanzee with no understanding of or respect for the basic institutions of democracy would celebrate such a shameless breach of the rule of law. Even just trolling us, you embarrass yourself. Again.  America is a global laughingstock and will suffer mightily in the future for it, thanks to people like you. 

@bman posted:

I know you're just trolling us but only a Trumpanzee with no understanding of or respect for the basic institutions of democracy would celebrate such a shameless breach of the rule of law. Even just trolling us, you embarrass yourself. Again.  America is a global laughingstock and will suffer mightily in the future for it, thanks to people like you. 

Napa continues to be living proof you can’t fix dumb. 

Democrats? Facts. Flynn hired by republican. Flynn fired by republican for lying to both the president and VP. Flynn lied and admitted he lied to FBI about his illegal dealings with foreign powers. Again, lied and broke the law by not registering so he could steal millions and not pay taxes. 

Federal judge reviews all the evidence collected by a Trump appointed AG and vetted by a republican justice department and tells Flynn he betrayed his country. Betrayed his country. What an officer and gentleman. 

Democrats? 🤣😂😅

As I said, you cannot fix dumb and our poster child of dumb, stupid and willfully ignorant steps in his own shit with regularity. 

@csm posted:

No, it won't. 

It's already happening, actually. No country, not even the US, can get ahead without working with other countries. But thanks to people like Napa, Trump was elected and is trying to show that the US can go it alone on many fronts. No one takes him or the US seriously as a trusted partner in international affairs any more. Once he and the sycophants he's out in key positions like Pompeo and Barr are gone the damage can begin to be repaired but it will take time and some damage will likely never be fixed. Trust takes a long time to build but very little to destroy. 

@wine+art posted:

Napa continues to be living proof you can’t fix dumb. 

Democrats? Facts. Flynn hired by republican. Flynn fired by republican for lying to both the president and VP. Flynn lied and admitted he lied to FBI about his illegal dealings with foreign powers. Again, lied and broke the law by not registering so he could steal millions and not pay taxes. 

Federal judge reviews all the evidence collected by a Trump appointed AG and vetted by a republican justice department and tells Flynn he betrayed his country. Betrayed his country. What an officer and gentleman. 

Democrats? 🤣😂😅

As I said, you cannot fix dumb and our poster child of dumb, stupid and willfully ignorant steps in his own shit with regularity. 

The facts will continue to come out.   You all are kidding yourselves if you think they won't and you keep denying what is going on right in front of you.  AG Barr has more morals in a finger than that loser Adam Schiff. 

Below is a story from the Washington Sentinal regarding General Flynn.

"Evidence is piling up that federal prosecutors committed serious prosecutorial misconduct in their attempt to put Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn in jail. And a new filing by Flynn’s attorney, Sidney Powell, highlights some very troubling actions by the federal government in both his and his former business partner’s cases.

On September 30, Powell filed her latest supplemental status report summarizing the acquittal of Flynn’s former business partner, Bijan Rafiekian.

Last week, the federal judge in Rafiekian’s case acquitted the man on all counts and said that the government utterly failed to prove its case.

Judge Anthony Trenga, of the Eastern District of Virginia, threw out Rafiekian’s convictions on violating the Foreign Agent Registration Act for work reportedly done on behalf of Turkey. Trenga said that there was insufficient evidence to sustain the convictions.

 “The evidence was insufficient as a matter of law for the jury to convict Rafiekian on either count,” Judge Trenga wrote in his opinion. The judge added that a new trial may be warranted “in the interest of justice should the Court’s judgment of acquittal be later vacated or reversed.”

Rafiekian and Flynn worked together in Flynn’s now dissolved Flynn Intel Group before Flynn joined President Donald Trump’s administration.

Judge Trenga ruled that there was no evidence whatever that Rafiekian knowingly broke the law by filing false papers to register as a lobbyist for a foreign government. This finding has direct bearing on Flynn’s own case as one of the chief accusations against him is that he knowingly lied about working for a foreign government.

Powell’s Sept. 30 filing points out all the misconduct engaged in by the prosecutors in the Flynn case, especially in light of the Rafiekian ruling.

Powell notes that Flynn had lived up to his agreement with the government to offer full cooperation in the Rafiekian case, and that prosecutors wanted him to testify that he and Rafiekian knowingly signed a false FARA registration. But Flynn had already told the government that he did not file false FARA paperwork and that he could not lie in court that he and Rafiekian did such a thing.

That is when the government broke the agreement and barred Flynn from testifying in the Rafiekian case. This is an admission that their whole point (the false FARA issue) was the crux of their case and now that Judge Trenga has found that Rafiekian did not file a false FARA, the charges against Flynn is also untenable.

In her filing, Powell notes that they have the paper tail to prove this: “In our endless document review, we now have a draft of the statement of offense that proves the contrary, showing similar language deleted,” Powell says.

In that statement, Flynn said directly that he does not agree that he filed a false FARA, yet the government’s main case went forward as if he DID agree to this claim.

Worse, Powell shows that the government then used threats of prosecuting Flynn’s son as a weapon of intimidation to force the general’s acquiescence to the government’s desires. Powell notes that Flynn steadfastly refused to agree that he filed a false FARA, and in response the prosecutors turned on his agreement and charged him as a co-conspirator (with Rafiekian who has now been acquitted).

Powell is steadily building a mountain of evidence that the government abused its powers and prosecutors perpetrated serious misconduct during its investigation and prosecution of both Flynn and Rafiekian”.

 

@napacat posted:

Below is a story from the Washington Sentinal (sic) regarding General Flynn.

If you want to know how Trump gets away with half the shit he does with his mindless base is because people like this asshole get their information from the closest thing the US has to state-run media. The Washington Sentinel and the Washington Times are to news outlets as what the Washington Generals are to sports.

@The Old Man posted:

If you want to know how Trump gets away with half the shit he does with his mindless base is because people like this asshole get their information from the closest thing the US has to state-run media. The Washington Sentinel and the Washington Times are to news outlets as what the Washington Generals are to sports.

The fact that Napa even reads the Washington Sentinel, much less quotes it and relies on it as a news source, speaks volumes. 

@The Old Man posted:

Wow what a searing come back. As pointed out we have lost the respect of our allies while our president fawns over dictators and despots.

Who cares? 

The US dollar is the global reserve currency and the US has the largest economy in the world. 

Trump's tweeting and general buffoonery is changing neither of those things.  The US is not in danger, nor will it suffer mightily, even if (when) Trump is reelected.  The respect of its allies, whatever the hell that means, is unimportant and irrelevant because of the US' economic importance.  

@csm posted:

Who cares? 

The US dollar is the global reserve currency and the US has the largest economy in the world. 

Trump's tweeting and general buffoonery is changing neither of those things.  The US is not in danger, nor will it suffer mightily, even if (when) Trump is reelected.  The respect of its allies, whatever the hell that means, is unimportant and irrelevant because of the US' economic importance.  

"general buffoonery" isn't that cute? He just kids when he mocks the disabled, insults war heroes while pardoning war criminals, calls neo-Nazis "fine people", tries to blackmail foreign governments in dirtying up political opponents, entourages his band of yay-hoo followers to violate the Coronavirus recommendations from his OWN administration, muses about injecting household cleaners, and, and, and...But he's just some lovable, misunderstood, funny man. Ha ha.

csm, thinks this is actually the president. trumpy bear with certificate

All soft and comfy and just rolling in hilarity and buffoonery. To our asshole troll, get them while they're hot, you can hung him all day. I think I can write the ad copy.

"When I hug Trumpy Bear he makes me feel safe from all those black and brown people who think they're my equal. I give him a squeeze and think of how good he makes me feel knowing he'll also protect me from Asians, Muslims and anyone else who isn't like me. And I know Trumpy Bear will protect me most from uppity "nasty" women who should be home, cooking dinner like the housewives of the past. And when they're not doing housework you make me feel it's OK to grab anyone of them I like by the pussy. Trumpy Bear, I just love you and so does Kim Jong-il."

Last edited by The Old Man
@csm posted:

Who cares? 

The US dollar is the global reserve currency and the US has the largest economy in the world. 

Trump's tweeting and general buffoonery is changing neither of those things.  The US is not in danger, nor will it suffer mightily, even if (when) Trump is reelected.  The respect of its allies, whatever the hell that means, is unimportant and irrelevant because of the US' economic importance.  

Wow.  With respect, it's not all about the economy, though with the US pulling out of or undermining almost all its trade partnerships it will soon be seen that that too is a mistake.  Like I said above, the US is not able to thrive and grow on its own, whether it is the largest economy and holds the global reserve currency or not.  It's inability to bend China to its will, trade-wise, along with other countries, is proof of that.  Trump tried to block the shipment of masks to Canada until we noted that one of the key ingredients of those masks comes from BC and cannot be easily or quickly sourced from the US.  Guess what?  We got our masks PDQ!  Just one example of American reliance on the interconnectedness of the global supply change where being the biggest economy doesn't matter.

But what I was mostly referring to was something else.  There is probably no reason for you to know this but there is a group called the Five Eyes, along with the Five Country Conference and other similar groups composed of the five major English-speaking countries who share intelligence with each other to make each country safe.  I know, because I participated in a couple of these groups back in the day. 

While the US has great intel they don't know everything that all the other countries know.  In fact some sub-groups now include lots of other democratic countries.  But going back to the time Trump revealed classified info to the Russian ambassador and foreign minister in the Oval Office a few years back, and perhaps before that, no one trusts the US to keep its secrets any more.  So some vitally important intel is no doubt not reaching the US because of this loss of trust.  And not just in the security area but in many other areas too, I'm sure.  There are dozens of multilateral groups of working-level public servants from all sorts of countries in all sorts of areas:  agriculture, law of the sea, and yes, health.  And thanks to Trump and some of his senior appointed officials, others no longer are inclined to share everything they know with the US.   

So revel in your status as the biggest economy and holder of the global reserve currency - though that too will eventually change as all empires eventually fail, after all - while virtually every area of American public policy suffers because of Trump and the people he puts in key positions based on loyalty to him rather than competence. 

@The Old Man posted:

"general buffoonery" isn't that cute? He just kids when he mocks the disabled, insults war heroes while pardoning war criminals, calls neo-Nazis "fine people", tries to blackmail foreign governments in dirtying up political opponents, entourages his band of yay-hoo followers to violate the Coronavirus recommendations from his OWN administration, muses about injecting household cleaners, and, and, and...But he's just some lovable, misunderstood, funny man. Ha ha.

csm, thinks this is actually the president. trumpy bear with certificate

All soft and comfy and just rolling in hilarity and buffoonery. To our asshole troll, get them while they're hot, you can hung him all day. I think I can write the ad copy.

"When I hug Trumpy Bear he makes me feel safe from all those black and brown people who think they're my equal. I give him a squeeze and think of how good he makes me feel knowing he'll also protect me from Asians, Muslims and anyone else who isn't like me. And I know Trumpy Bear will protect me most from uppity "nasty" women who should be home, cooking dinner like the housewives of the past. And when they're not doing housework you make me feel it's OK to grab anyone of them I like by the pussy. Trumpy Bear, I just love you and so does Kim Jong-il."

For an old man you sure act like a child. Resorting to name calling like usual. Maybe that’s why you don’t like Donny. He’s Just like you.

Nothing in that rambling post came close to resembling a coherent thought. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

Every president has womanized (maybe not either of the Bushes) and pardoned criminals and gotten in bed with dictators and despots. Ever hear of Saudi Arabia?  

Finally, Trump didn’t call neo-Nazis fine people.  

@bman posted:  So revel in your status as the biggest economy and holder of the global reserve currency - though that too will eventually change as all empires eventually fail, after all - while virtually every area of American public policy suffers because of Trump and the people he puts in key positions based on loyalty to him rather than competence. 

Maybe it will maybe it won’t.  I’d wager it doesn’t though.  And the fact that you think any politician, Trump or otherwise, appoints anyone to any position because of competence, or for a reason other than loyalty is laugh out loud funny.  

You just stood there screaming
Fearing no one was listening to you
They say the empty can rattles the most
The sound of your own voice must suit you
Hearing only what you want to hear
And knowing only what you've heard
You, you're smothered in tragedy
And you're off to save the world
Misery
You insist that the weight of the world
Should be on your shoulders
Misery
There's much more to life than what you see
My friend of misery
You still stood there screaming
No one caring about these words you tell
My friend before your voice is gone
One man's fun is another's hell
These times are sent to try men's souls
But something's wrong with all you see
You, you'll take it on all yourself
Remember, misery loves company
Misery
You insist that the weight of the world
Should be on your shoulders
Misery
There's much more to life than what you see
My friend of misery, my friend of misery
You just stood there screaming
My friend of misery
Misery
You insist that the weight of the world
Should be on your shoulders
Misery
There's much more to life than what you see
My friend of misery, my friend of misery
You just stood there screaming
My friend of misery
@csm posted:

Finally, Trump didn’t call neo-Nazis fine people.  

In 2017 incidences of anti-Semitism rose at the steepest level since the Anti-Defamation League started tracking it. That number has continued to climb in the last two-and-a-half years leading to incidences such as 11 Jews slaughtered in Temple in Pittsburgh and 1 killed 30 miles away from me at a fellow synagogue. Hmm, now what coincided with 2017 and has continued for the last 3 years? You'd have to be a fucking idiot  not to recognize  the sick hate speech  that comes out of this awful person.

You have a president who never came out until way after saying that he was condemning white supremacists. He doesn't want to, because anyone who admires him is okey-doke with him. What kind of bar is set when you can't forcefully reject neo-Nazis? And I've already explained this before. He said there were "fine people on both sides." So let's say you're a fine person with a fine cause and you decide to go down and march. And a bunch of the people in your march are wearing wearing swastikas and other Nazi paraphernalia. Why earth would you get in line and march with them, no matter how wonderful your cause?  What a pathetic excuse.

Myself, and the majority of Jews, who are certainly the most demagogued people in history, know a demagogue when we see one. We know code, we know insinuation, and we see right through this poor excuse for a man. So go screw yourself and your "Chosen One." (remember when they used to mock Obama as our "Messiah"? I don't remember him ever actually saying anything like this putz as he looked to the heavens. You certainly can pick them.

Over and out.

Last edited by The Old Man
@The Old Man posted:

In 2017 incidences of anti-Semitism rose at the steepest level since the Anti-Defamation League started tracking it. That number has continued to climb in the last two-and-a-half years leading to incidences such as 11 Jews slaughtered in Temple in Pittsburgh and 1 killed 30 miles away from me at a fellow synagogue. Hum, now what coincided with 2017 and has continued for the last 3 years? You'd have to be a fucking idiot  not to recognize  the sick hate speech  that comes out of this awful person.

You have a president who never came out until way after saying that he was condemning white supremacists. He doesn't want to, because anyone who admires him is okey-doke with him. And I've already explained this before . He said there were fine people on both sides. Let's say you're a fine person with a fine cause and you decide to go down and march. And a bunch of the people in your march are wearing wearing swastikas and other Nazi paraphernalia . Why earth would you get in line and march with them, no matter how wonderful your cause?  What a pathetic excuse.

Myself, and the majority of Jews, who are certainly is a most demagogue people in history, know a demagogue when we see one. We know code, we know insinuation, and we see right through this poor excuse for a man. So go screw yourself and your "Chosen One." (remember when they used to mock Obama as our "Messiah"? I don't remember him ever actually saying anything like this putz as he looked to the heavens. You certainly can pick them.

Over and out.

TOM has certainly voiced basically my response.  Anyone who can look at what is happening in our government and trying to state that it is within any realm of acceptable - well I don't know what to say anymore.

Yes, I am a liberal Jewish person.  I wrote one of the recount lawsuits in the 2000 presidential elections and worked very hard to try to prevent the W presidency from ever occurring but nothing (and that includes trumped up wars that were fought) that took place then threatened our country like what has happened in the last few years.  At least the people behind W were not complete morons (despite the fact that I disagreed with them about everything).  And the fact that I disagreed with them, did not mean they were willing to sell out the Country for their own ends.  That cannot be said for the current administration - which I also told everyone before the 2016 election as I have the misfortune of having to spent a number of years personally dealing with Trump.

Anyone who rationalizes or normalizes what it going on in Washington now will ultimately bear responsibility if things continue to spiral downwards.

Thank you. In this case the "cancer on the presidency" is the president.

( Numbers show around 80% of Jews do not vote Republican and also do not support Trump. The 20% mostly come from the Orthodox, which doesn't mean they should be discounted, but many of them are really one issue voters. The greatest concentration of Orthodox Jews in the US is New York City. Regardless of that the entire city rejected Trump in 2016 because they knew him all too well.)

Last edited by The Old Man
@csm posted:

And the fact that you think any politician, Trump or otherwise, appoints anyone to any position because of competence, or for a reason other than loyalty is laugh out loud funny.  

Read Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin, and get back to us.  

There are countless other examples, but I'll let Lincoln's remarkable appointments of William Seward (Secretary of State),  Salmon Chase (Secretary of the Treasury) and Edward Bates (Attorney General) serve to rebut your ridiculous assertion above.

Not only were they competent, they all disliked Lincoln immensely.  

Here's a list of "across party line" appointments by both Republican and Democratic Presidents in case you need more data.  Click..... 

PH

@purplehaze posted:

Read Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin, and get back to us.  

There are countless other examples, but I'll let Lincoln's remarkable appointments of William Seward (Secretary of State),  Salmon Chase (Secretary of the Treasury) and Edward Bates (Attorney General) serve to rebut your ridiculous assertion above.

Not only were they competent, they all disliked Lincoln immensely.  

Here's a list of "across party line" appointments by both Republican and Democratic Presidents in case you need more data.  Click..... 

PH

Stop with the facts already. They know the truth from Fox News, OAN, Alex Jones and don't forget the Washington Sentinel (whatever the hell that is. Try and even find it online.) I thought it was common knowledge about the diverse cabinets that many presidents have engaged. Trump, Mr. Businessman, can't even keep most of his cabinet members more than six months. It's all right here in this fake news from this fake news site. Trump Has Now Had More Cabinet Turnover Than Reagan, Obama and the Two Bushes. Of course all the numbers are fake because no president can possibly be this incompetent and still be admired for bringing his business experience to the White House.What CEO would not have been booted a long time ago?

Last edited by The Old Man
@The Old Man posted:

In 2017 incidences of anti-Semitism rose at the steepest level since the Anti-Defamation League started tracking it. That number has continued to climb in the last two-and-a-half years leading to incidences such as 11 Jews slaughtered in Temple in Pittsburgh and 1 killed 30 miles away from me at a fellow synagogue. Hmm, now what coincided with 2017 and has continued for the last 3 years? You'd have to be a fucking idiot  not to recognize  the sick hate speech  that comes out of this awful person.

You have a president who never came out until way after saying that he was condemning white supremacists. He doesn't want to, because anyone who admires him is okey-doke with him. What kind of bar is set when you can't forcefully reject neo-Nazis? And I've already explained this before. He said there were "fine people on both sides." So let's say you're a fine person with a fine cause and you decide to go down and march. And a bunch of the people in your march are wearing wearing swastikas and other Nazi paraphernalia. Why earth would you get in line and march with them, no matter how wonderful your cause?  What a pathetic excuse.

Myself, and the majority of Jews, who are certainly the most demagogued people in history, know a demagogue when we see one. We know code, we know insinuation, and we see right through this poor excuse for a man. So go screw yourself and your "Chosen One." (remember when they used to mock Obama as our "Messiah"? I don't remember him ever actually saying anything like this putz as he looked to the heavens. You certainly can pick them.

Over and out.

For the record, my wife is Jewish. My son is Jewish. My ex-wife is Jewish.  I assumed you were referring to the Charlottesville incident (wife also is a Wahoo) where Trump has, wrongly in my opinion, been credited with calling the Neo-Nazi scum that were there “fine people”. I’ve listened to the whole speech. I don’t think that’s what he said.  

I’m also not defending Trump. I can’t stand him. I just think it’s counterproductive to go beyond his actual words.  You don’t need to embellish. His actual words are more than enough.

Your citing of all of the facts you did are nothing more than a red herring.  I said nothing of the rise in anti-Semitism. Or the massacre in Pittsburgh (victims lived in my in-laws’ community in Florida for what it is worth).  I was referring to one specific incident. Anyway, keep calling names and making assumptions.  It’s really all you do well.

Fucking idiot over and out. I’m going to go grab my Trump bear and screw myself. Like the putz I am. 

Last edited by csm
@purplehaze posted:

Read Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin, and get back to us.  

There are countless other examples, but I'll let Lincoln's remarkable appointments of William Seward (Secretary of State),  Salmon Chase (Secretary of the Treasury) and Edward Bates (Attorney General) serve to rebut your ridiculous assertion above.

Not only were they competent, they all disliked Lincoln immensely.  

Here's a list of "across party line" appointments by both Republican and Democratic Presidents in case you need more data.  Click..... 

PH

Fair enough PH. Should have been more clear. Any modern politician.

Holding any of the clowns that hold public office right now up to Lincoln’s standard is going to leave the modern guys being weighed, measured and found wanting. 

@csm posted:

For the record, my wife is Jewish. My son is Jewish. My ex-wife is Jewish.  I assumed you were referring to the Charlottesville incident (wife also is a Wahoo) where Trump has, wrongly in my opinion, been credited with calling the Neo-Nazi scum that were there “fine people”. I’ve listened to the whole speech. I don’t think that’s what he said.  

I’m also not defending Trump. I can’t stand him. I just think it’s counterproductive to go beyond his actual words.  You don’t need to embellish. His actual words are more than enough.

Your citing of all of the facts you did are nothing more than a red herring.  I said nothing of the rise in anti-Semitism. Or the massacre in Pittsburgh (victims lived in my in-laws’ community in Florida for what it is worth).  I was referring to one specific incident. Anyway, keep calling names and making assumptions.  It’s really all you do well.

Fucking idiot over and out. I’m going to go grab my Trump bear and screw myself. Like the putz I am. 

Those red herrings are the truth. Apparently billhike thinks I'm calling you an anti-semite. I had no idea what your religion is. I'm saying the president is an anti-semite and I'm giving you some examples. I think in your excusing his reaction to Charleston you are enabling an anti-semite. Many members of my Chabad also think he didn't say what he said.

As I said the great majority of Jews see right through this demagogue, a small minority do not. I'm proud of that.

Last edited by The Old Man
@billhike posted:

csm I’m sorry you got dragged into attacks - especially  the one by the miserable jagoff in California whose only reason for existing seems to be trying to spread his misery to others. F*** that waste of cells. Remember, the dumbass also insinuated vint was antisemitic recently. Tool.

billhike please quote anywhere where I called him anti-Semitic. Nor, as I clearly explained, did I call vint anti-Semitic. As I said I was pointing out an interesting fact about Hebrew grammar not putting him down. Please quote where I called either one of them anti-semitic or anyone else other than the president.

Last edited by The Old Man
@The Old Man posted:

Those red herrings are the truth. Apparently billhike thinks I'm calling you an anti-semite. I had no idea what your religion is. I'm saying the president is an anti-semite and I'm giving you some examples. I think in your excusing his reaction to Charleston you are enabling an anti-semite. Many members of my Chabad also think he didn't say what he said.

As I said the great majority of Jews see right through this demagogue, a small minority do not. I'm proud of that.

Red herrings can’t be the truth. By definition. And Charlottesville. Not Charleston. 

He never once said the Nazi pigs there were fine people. There is nothing to excuse. 

i have a hard time with calling this president an anti-semite.  Lots of other things yes. anti-Semitic no.

 

@csm posted:

Red herrings can’t be the truth. By definition.

You got me, I should have just said the truth. Because it all was. You of won't answer any of them like the unprecedented rise in anti-semitic incidents is since this demagogue took office. Not to mention rise in anti-Hispanic attacks (what do you expect when the president says the majority of people coming from Mexico and rapists, murderers and drug dealers (?)), more attacks on blacks, Look at what just happened in Georgia. And of course an increase in threats to Muslims--you can't think that's just luck of the draw can you?. These are facts and they're not coincidences.

Charleston. I stand corrected.

He never once said the Nazi pigs there were fine people. There is nothing to excuse.

I understand that a number of Jews feel that way. However a large majority will certainly vote against him November as they did in 2016.

 

 

Perhaps csm, you could explain to billhike that I didn't call you an anti-semite. Bill you remind me sometimes of Scut Farkus's toady Grover Dill in Christmas Story. You knew if Farkus was being tough with someone Dill's the type who would do the reach around to get his licks in.

Last edited by The Old Man
@The Old Man posted:

billhike please quote anywhere where I called him anti-Semitic. Nor, as I clearly explained, did I call vint anti-Semitic. As I said I was pointing out an interesting fact about Hebrew grammar not putting him down. Please quote where I called either one of them anti-semitic or anyone else other than the president.

I re-quoted your post directed at vint before you deleted/edited it and backtracked. Go find it yourself - it’s in the Passover thread. And I didn’t make the same claim regarding your exchange with csm. But you did make one of your unhinged attacks because he wouldn’t agree with you. It’s a pattern. Fuck off.

Last edited by billhike
@The Old Man posted:

Perhaps csm, you could explain to billhike that I didn't call you an anti-semite. Bill you remind me sometimes of Scut Farkus's toady Grover Dill in Christmas Story. You knew if Farkus was being tough with someone Dill's the type who would do the reach around to get his licks in.

Right, because I’ve never called out you’re being a whiny prick on my own. 

@billhike posted:

I re-quoted your post directed at vint before you deleted/edited it and backtracked. Go find it yourself - it’s in the Passover thread. And I didn’t make the same claim regarding your exchange with csm. But you did make one of your unhinged attacks because he wouldn’t agree with you. It’s a pattern. Fuck off.

I know what I wrote and I know what I meant. Your hate for me over the years has colored and twisted yourself into misreading my posts. I made a Hebrew grammar correction (again because I thought the Hebrew derivation was interesting) It was misinterpreted as an attack (again it wasn't.) I was then surprisingly attacked and I mused if it was an anti-Semitic attack. Again I did not call anyone an anti-Semite. I just didn't understand the attacks on me. I then explained what I had meant (about "correcting" Hebrew grammar.) But just like Grover you jumped in there too. There is it, go fuck yourself.

"And I didn’t make the same claim regarding your exchange with csm"

"Remember, the dumbass also insinuated vint was antisemitic recently."

Last edited by The Old Man

True story: I had a really difficult neighbor who thought everyone was a jerk here because they all gave her a hard time. I tried to explain to her that if so many others were giving her a hard time maybe It was her that was the problem not them? Then she moved away and left us. Her replacement taught us all what a real jerk could be. I wish we had the old jerk around here instead.

Last edited by bomba503

Whenever I look at this stream, I am amazed at the vitriol posted here from people who should know better.  It is not enough to spout their views on things, mostly political, but they have to attack anyone who might disagree with their views.  Everyone should strive to be better than this.  I have friends on both sides of the political spectrum and with some of those who are on the opposite side, I am able to have reasonable discussions of political views.  For those who are unable to have a rational discussion, I avoid having any discussion.  It is not worth it.  Try to be better.

@thistlintom posted:

Whenever I look at this stream, I am amazed at the vitriol posted here from people who should know better.  It is not enough to spout their views on things, mostly political, but they have to attack anyone who might disagree with their views.  Everyone should strive to be better than this.  I have friends on both sides of the political spectrum and with some of those who are on the opposite side, I am able to have reasonable discussions of political views.  For those who are unable to have a rational discussion, I avoid having any discussion.  It is not worth it.  Try to be better.

Agree. While I enjoy participating in political discussions here and pointing out Trump's nonsense and the harm he's doing to the US and the rest of the world, I  don't like the vitriol. Let's keep it civil. 

@thistlintom posted:

Whenever I look at this stream, I am amazed at the vitriol posted here from people who should know better.  It is not enough to spout their views on things, mostly political, but they have to attack anyone who might disagree with their views.  Everyone should strive to be better than this.  I have friends on both sides of the political spectrum and with some of those who are on the opposite side, I am able to have reasonable discussions of political views.  For those who are unable to have a rational discussion, I avoid having any discussion.  It is not worth it.  Try to be better.

I'll admit it, respectfully and without vitriol, I have a hard time having a reasonable discussion when I see my country going down while led by a racist, bigoted, teller of thousands of lies, sexist know-nothing demagogue. (I know you don't like my mantra of listing this man's serious flaws that make him unfit for the presidency, but I don't believe I've ever seen you even try to refute the facts I've brought up here in the past to support my views.) There were not two equally valid viewpoints in pre-1860s America (You're for slavery and I'm not so let's agree to disagree) and there certainly isn't today.

Last edited by The Old Man
@thistlintom posted:

Whenever I look at this stream, I am amazed at the vitriol posted here from people who should know better.  It is not enough to spout their views on things, mostly political, but they have to attack anyone who might disagree with their views.  Everyone should strive to be better than this.  I have friends on both sides of the political spectrum and with some of those who are on the opposite side, I am able to have reasonable discussions of political views.  For those who are unable to have a rational discussion, I avoid having any discussion.  It is not worth it.  Try to be better.

I tried this approach...didn’t really go well with folks here. I try not to be a name caller, but fail at times.  No reason people just cannot have different view points. 

I have said many times...that I despised Hillary so much that there was only one choice.  And on top of that, I agree a lot more with Republican ideology than a democratic one.   

@thistlintom posted:

Whenever I look at this stream, I am amazed at the vitriol posted here from people who should know better.  It is not enough to spout their views on things, mostly political, but they have to attack anyone who might disagree with their views.  Everyone should strive to be better than this.  I have friends on both sides of the political spectrum and with some of those who are on the opposite side, I am able to have reasonable discussions of political views.  For those who are unable to have a rational discussion, I avoid having any discussion.  It is not worth it.  Try to be better.

This

I miss the old days on these boards.  When I first joined almost 20 years ago I met so many amazing people, many of whom I consider friends, had some amazing times and tasted some fabulous wines, all the while learning and growing my love and appreciation of same.  The boards don't feel that way any longer, hence the fact I don't hang around or post much any more.  

Disappointing, and too bad.

Last edited by Vino Bevo

Anti-Semitic incidents in U.S. hit record high in 2019, report says

I met this rabbi in the picture at an event about year ago. I did not know at first who he was, but when I shook his hand it was wrapped with a blue cloth. Later I found out it was because he was missing a finger or two. As I said two days ago, starting in 2017 anti-Semitic attacks rose at their greatest rate since tracking was begun by the Anti-Defamation League. They have continued at this pace for the last three years. There was only one major change our country has experienced during that time frame and that's the presidency of a man who regularly spews venom and hate toward minorities.

@Vino Bevo posted:

I miss the old days on these boards.  When I first joined almost 20 years ago I met so many amazing people, many of whom I consider friends, had some amazing times and tasted some fabulous wines, all the while learning and growing my love and appreciation of same.  The boards don't feel that way any longer, hence the fact I don't hang around or post much any more.  

Disappointing, and too bad.

If you stay out of this particular thread I think you'll find that nothing has changed here except the numbers of participants has gone way down. This thread is the one place that WS has allowed political discussions (which I didn't even discover for years because I never visited this thread.) And yeah, political discussions, particularly in these times, can get very heated. So why not just change the channel?

Last edited by The Old Man

Seems to me that this thread is a necessary outlet through which those of us who wish to do so can share their political views (and other thoughts that are off topic) without interfering with other topics. Much like the former Madder Than Hell forum.

And yes, if the comments on this thread, one of dozens of threads here I would note, offend anyone then just ignore it. Much like one might ignore tv channels that offend or don't interest them. 

That said, I reiterate that there is no need for vitriol or name calling of our fellow forumites.  

Last edited by bman
@bman posted:

Seems to me that this thread is a necessary outlet through which those of us who wish to do so can share their political views (and other thoughts that are off topic) without interfering with other topics. Much like the former Madder Than Hell forum.

And yes, if the comments on this thread, one of dozens of threads here I would note, offend anyone then just ignore it. Much like one might ignore tv channels that offend or don't interest them. 

That said, I reiterate that there is no need for vitriol or name calling of our fellow forumites.  

I'll just never understand it. I'm on another forum with a member that just posts (to me) unbelievably ignorant things. So you know what I do? I don't read them anymore. It's quite easy.

@Vino Bevo posted:

This

I miss the old days on these boards.  When I first joined almost 20 years ago I met so many amazing people, many of whom I consider friends, had some amazing times and tasted some fabulous wines, all the while learning and growing my love and appreciation of same.  The boards don't feel that way any longer, hence the fact I don't hang around or post much any more.  

Disappointing, and too bad.

Yep

 

@bman posted:

Wow. Without your constant baiting while avoid any constructive discussion, this thread would be much more civil.

The hypocrisy is strong in this one!  

Really...I am not baiting anyone.  And I generally am not a name caller at all.  I put up quite a lot of alternative thoughts for discussion only to get bashed for not  being in group think with the rest of you.  

@bman posted:

Wow. Without your constant baiting while avoid any constructive discussion, this thread would be much more civil.

The hypocrisy is strong in this one!  

There is plenty of hypocrisy to go around. In one sense you are right that the thread would be more civil without Napa as there wouldn't be anyone who is willing to voice views different from all the progressive bullies here with to bash.

@thistlintom posted:

There is plenty of hypocrisy to go around. In one sense you are right that the thread would be more civil without Napa as there wouldn't be anyone who is willing to voice views different from all the progressive bullies here with to bash.

Ew, progressives, (By they way I'm not) evil wicked people. However, if the definition means being against (here we go TT, one day you'll really have to try and refute some of them) racism, bigotry, sexism, know-nothing-ism, anti-science, mocking of the disabled, mocking of POWs, demagoguery and lying daily on a monumental scale, then I guess I'm one of them. Didn't think any of those things I've been against for all my life could be taken to be controversial EXCEPT for people who support, or engage in, one or more of those things.

Last edited by The Old Man
@thistlintom posted:

There is plenty of hypocrisy to go around. In one sense you are right that the thread would be more civil without Napa as there wouldn't be anyone who is willing to voice views different from all the progressive bullies here with to bash.

TTom, as it happens one of the things I enjoy most here and on other social media is hearing from people who disagree with me.  Last thing I want is an echo chamber.  You and I have had a couple of spirited discussions which I appreciated, as you actually made counter points rather than attempts to bait. Ditto my recent encounter with csm here, someone I actually have met and know and like.

Napa has done that in the past as well but for the past few months, perhaps years, I don't recall a comment that can be called anything but baiting, or anything that makes an effort to actually rebut a point made here. I and others have gone to some length to use facts to back up our arguments but I just made a quick search of Napa's posts here going back to the beginning of the year and I see pretty much nothing but baiting. 

Add in his defence of clearly outrageous actions by Trump such as taking kids away from their families, putting them in cages and then losing track of who they are and how to get them back to their families and it's not hard to see why Napa takes the flack he takes.

@bman posted:

TTom, as it happens one of the things I enjoy most here and on other social media is hearing from people who disagree with me.  Last thing I want is an echo chamber.  You and I have had a couple of spirited discussions which I appreciated, as you actually made counter points rather than attempts to bait. Ditto my recent encounter with csm here, someone I actually have met and know and like.

Napa has done that in the past as well but for the past few months, perhaps years, I don't recall a comment that can be called anything but baiting, or anything that makes an effort to actually rebut a point made here. I and others have gone to some length to use facts to back up our arguments but I just made a quick search of Napa's posts here going back to the beginning of the year and I see pretty much nothing but baiting. 

Add in his defence of clearly outrageous actions by Trump such as taking kids away from their families, putting them in cages and then losing track of who they are and how to get them back to their families and it's not hard to see why Napa takes the flack he takes.

Ok...semi-fair point if you take it that way...but you may interpret another viewpoint as baiting.  I’m not.  Often I prefer to point out the double standard most of you have and the media.  It’s shocking and pretty disgusting.  Do you all not see it or recognize it?  Or are you all in on your blind hatred.

Ever see a video or two on college campuses where the host reads Trumps words but they don’t tell the young idiots who said it....and they all agree it sounds reasonable...until they reveal who said it.

@napacat posted:

Ok...semi-fair point if you take it that way...but you may interpret another viewpoint as baiting.  I’m not.  Often I prefer to point out the double standard most of you have and the media.  It’s shocking and pretty disgusting.  Do you all not see it or recognize it?  Or are you all in on your blind hatred.

Ever see a video or two on college campuses where the host reads Trumps words but they don’t tell the young idiots who said it....and they all agree it sounds reasonable...until they reveal who said it.

Given the fact that he never shuts up and has often tweeted dozens of times a day, odds are that he would come up up with the odd rational thought. So what?  Proves nothing, especially balanced against the millions of crazy and dangerous things he's said. 

And why do you suggest college students are idiots?  

 

The discussions above have made me ruminate about something. I've often said that even if I disagreed with someone here online, that wouldn't stop me from sitting down with them face to face, and enjoy sharing a bottle of wine. I still believe that. I'd love to sit down with both Napa and TOM someday, though probably not at the same time.

That said, my best friend is a man who loves to entertain. Often times when he invites me over, I discover that I'm only one of many guests at his house that evening. There is a certain "gentleman" that his wife keeps inviting (she's a bit of a social-climber), whom I cannot stand. He is a local, small-time politician who thinks that pearls continually drop from his lips and everything he touches turns to gold. I've never met someone so in love with himself. I've shared wine with him on several occasions over the years, and the funny thing is, he never remembers me. (Not important enough, I guess. Just someone in the crowd.) I never call him out on it, as it would be bad form at a function; but every time, as soon as he realizes that I'm not going along with his BS like the rest of the crowd, you can see the change come into his eyes. They become cold and lizard-like, and he soon finds a reason to leave for another party (and to a more receptive crowd, I assume). That I can't abide sharing wine with this guy, even for a small amount of time, bothers me a little bit, I guess. Feels like a character flaw in me.

Last edited by mneeley490
@mneeley490 posted:

The discussions above have made me ruminate about something. I've often said that even if I disagreed with someone here online, that wouldn't stop me from sitting down with them face to face, and enjoy sharing a bottle of wine. I still believe that. I'd love to sit down with both Napa and TOM someday, though probably not at the same time.

That said, my best friend is a man who loves to entertain. Often times when he invites me over, I discover that I'm only one of many guests at his house that evening. There is a certain "gentleman" that his wife keeps inviting (she's a bit of a social-climber), whom I cannot stand. He is a local, small-time politician who thinks that pearls continually drop from his lips and everything he touches turns to gold. I've never met someone so in love with himself. I've shared wine with him on several occasions over the years, and the funny thing is, he never remembers me. (Not important enough, I guess. Just someone in the crowd.) I never call him out on it, as it would be bad form at a function; but every time, as soon as he realizes that I'm not going along with his BS like the rest of the crowd, you can see the change come into his eyes. They become cold and lizard-like, and he soon finds a reason to leave for another party (and to a more receptive crowd, I assume). That I can't abide sharing wine with this guy, even for a small amount of time, bothers me a little bit, I guess. Feels like a character flaw in me.

I don’t see how not enjoying socializing with disingenuous phonies as a character flaw in you. Sitting there with a fake smile and nodding along would make you one of them. 

@bman posted:

Given the fact that he never shuts up and has often tweeted dozens of times a day, odds are that he would come up up with the odd rational thought. So what?  Proves nothing, especially balanced against the millions of crazy and dangerous things he's said. 

And why do you suggest college students are idiots?  

 

It certainly was way too broad and general of a statement...but when they agree with the words / premise, then disagree with them once it is revealed who uttered them...seems to me that they were not WOKE enough and are only faking it.

@mneeley490 posted:

The discussions above have made me ruminate about something. I've often said that even if I disagreed with someone here online, that wouldn't stop me from sitting down with them face to face, and enjoy sharing a bottle of wine. I still believe that. I'd love to sit down with both Napa and TOM someday, though probably not at the same time.

That said, my best friend is a man who loves to entertain. Often times when he invites me over, I discover that I'm only one of many guests at his house that evening. There is a certain "gentleman" that his wife keeps inviting (she's a bit of a social-climber), whom I cannot stand. He is a local, small-time politician who thinks that pearls continually drop from his lips and everything he touches turns to gold. I've never met someone so in love with himself. I've shared wine with him on several occasions over the years, and the funny thing is, he never remembers me. (Not important enough, I guess. Just someone in the crowd.) I never call him out on it, as it would be bad form at a function; but every time, as soon as he realizes that I'm not going along with his BS like the rest of the crowd, you can see the change come into his eyes. They become cold and lizard-like, and he soon finds a reason to leave for another party (and to a more receptive crowd, I assume). That I can't abide sharing wine with this guy, even for a small amount of time, bothers me a little bit, I guess. Feels like a character flaw in me.

I'd have a bottle of wine with you and the Old Man.  Could be very fun.

@thistlintom posted:

According to CNN, Greta Thunberg is an expert on corona virus

Don't think they ever called her an expert, she's there to attract a different-than-usual audience to hear other experts. CNN had a virus town hall with Sesame Street characters for the same reason. And no doubt she is a more reliable interlocutor on the virus than Trump. Unless of course she suggests injecting disinfectant.....

@thistlintom posted:

CNN had named her as being on an expert panel on corona virus.  It appears she is backing away from the panel after all the flack on Twitter 

Just repeating this doesn't make it true. There is NOWHERE where CNN called her an "expert on the corona virus (sic.)" They did have her sit on the panel to help engage young people--the horror!

Stop spreading lies.

Last edited by The Old Man
@The Old Man posted:

Just repeating this doesn't make it true. There is NOWHERE where CNN called her an "expert on the corona virus (sic.)" They did have her sit on the panel to help engage young people--the horror!

Stop spreading lies.

Chill out.  So it wasn’t accurate, but you have a 16 year old prop along with a group of experts on a panel.  It Is rather ridiculous, even for CNN.  I found it comical that they would use her on this townhall.

@thistlintom posted:

Chill out.  So it wasn’t accurate, but you have a 16 year old prop along with a group of experts on a panel.  It Is rather ridiculous, even for CNN.  I found it comical that they would use her on this townhall.

See my post above for why she is there. Not comical at all if she brings in an audience who wouldn't otherwise be there, which is the point.  Like when they did a virus town hall with the Muppets.  

Now the conspiracy theorists on Fox, those guys are comical!  

 

@napacat posted:

This is not a “bait” question....and this would have never crossed my mind.  Why the need to release prisoners from jail due to Covid...that is the ultimate quarantine...jail!  Seems wrong on every level....especially when it comes to more hardened criminals.   A logical explanation is welcome.

Well. You don’t release the hardened criminals. You release the criminals near the end of their sentence, potentially to house arrest, to make the jails safer for everyone, including the guards. And to be humane to those nearing the end of a sentence given that institutions have become petri dishes for this. 

@The Old Man posted:

Column: I’ve gotten hate mail my whole career. But I’m shocked by the anti-Semitic rants from Trump supporters lately

I'm not. A key sentence: "Now, I don’t have any particular reason to believe Trump shares all the views of his nuttiest supporters. But like many people, I believe he encourages them. He fans the flames of intolerance and division, and caters too often to a bigoted crowd."

Not really sure what there is be shocked about - it has been 4+ years of normalizing and enabling bigots to spew filth.  

As I have posted previously, it is almost 3 years since a guy on a cruise we were on to Cuba was openly showing his swastika tattoos.  Bigots are more free now to reveal their actual views than the racists and anti-semites were in Alabama when I was growing up in the 70s.  I was on the receiving end of plenty of anti-semitism (and racism for my teammates) generally and especially when we hit the smaller towns for basketball games but in terms of open and public spewing - things are insane

I don't know the details of what you two are discussing but two things.

1) Don't do it the dumb way.  If states have done dumb things (they have!) that doesn't mean releasing many prisoners isn't a good idea.

2) I don't know what you've heard or read, but overall crime is way down right now.  (Domestic violence is an outlier and up about 10%.)  It varies upon city, but overall crime appears to be staggeringly down in cities across the country; 15% to 60++% down. You wouldn't know it to watch the news, but that is a function of the sensationalistic bias of news coverage, not of reality.  

Here is a Twitter thread from early April written by a very bright woman I once knew who happens now to be a professor of criminal law at UNC Chapel Hill .  

https://twitter.com/CBHessick/.../1246927648120602624

I sure would like to see some statistics from those in Washington and California. I live in California I'm not aware of any "havoc." And apparently there's "major havoc" in WA. These releases have been going on for less than a month. I can't find any citations for these horror stories though I'm sure there are some who have re-offended, but not to the degree the two previous posters have said.

"We have had a major uptick in burglaries, robberies, and assaults." Again I can't find any citation can you provide a link?

Last edited by The Old Man

Tweeted by Trump today:

""Fox News is doing nothing to help Republicans, and me, get re-elected on November 3rd. Sure, there are some truly GREAT people on Fox, but you also have some real “garbage” littered all over the network, people like Dummy Juan Williams, Schumerite Chris Hahn, Richard Goodstein, Donna Brazile, Niel Cavuto, and many others. They repeat the worst of the Democrat speaking points, and lies. All of the good is totally nullified, and more. Net Result = BAD!""

Wonder if anyone at Fox will tell him that ir's not really their job to get him and and Republicans elected. Aside from the people on Fox and Friends.  And Tucker Carlson.  And Hannity.  And.....

For around 2 months or so, most states were shut down in one respect or another.  Malls, theatres, concert halls, schools, and houses of worship have been closed.  The result?  No mass shootings, because there were no mass gatherings of people.  Since there were fewer people going to work and many workplaces shut down, there were many fewer automobile accidents and many fewer workplace injuries.  Air pollution was down here, and in some very polluted cities around the globe.

As states "open" there was a shooting a few days ago at a mall in the Phoenix AZ area. 3 persons wounded.  When schools open in the fall we will have school shootings again.  As houses of worship open, we can anticipate more horrible shootings at these institutions.  And, as factories and other workplaces open and more people drive their cars, we can have more accidents and more air pollution. 

We can call this the “old normal.”

 

 

@mneeley490 posted:

This started long before the Coronavirus set in. That has only accelerated it.

Well now I am confused. I thought we were talking about prisoners released because of concern over the Coronavirus. As I said those release programs have barely been around for more than a month. You were talking, I thought, about "major havoc" and "a major uptick in burglaries, robberies, and assaults" due to those releases. As I said, I can't find any reference for this going on in the last month. Even Fox News, who you know would beat the drum on this, has nothing. Now to back up what you said you want me to watch documentaries made before the pandemic? I'll pass.

@The Old Man posted:

Well now I am confused. I thought we were talking about prisoners released because of concern over the Coronavirus. As I said those release programs have barely been around for more than a month. You were talking, I thought, about "major havoc" and "a major uptick in burglaries, robberies, and assaults" due to those releases. As I said, I can't find any reference for this going on in the last month. Even Fox News, who you know would beat the drum on this, has nothing. Now to back up what you said you want me to watch documentaries made before the pandemic? I'll pass.

Her's a link for you...read this.   https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0...onavirus-murder.html

Is the NY Times a good enough reference for you?  I know you did not like my last one.  It would never have crossed my mind to release anyone from jail due to C-19.  They are in the ultimate quarantined environment...and the Left says quarantines are good.  So keep them there.  Now this scumbag will get locked back up for good...or worse (I mean better).

Did you think I was saying that there would not be any increase in crime when you release prisoners early? I never said anything like that. Very common for you to take on things which I never said. The OP stated that there is "major havoc"and "a major uptick in burglaries, robberies, and assaults" in Washington State. He gives no backup for the claim and then refers me to movies from before the pandemic. I looked through the internet and also could not find any statistics. You respond by giving me and on related single incident. I'm sorry but it doesn't show anything about havoc in a rampage of crimes in Washington state from the pandemic.

I wish I didn't take the time to respond to you. But your comments are, here I go,  usually not as clever as you think.

Last edited by The Old Man
@The Old Man posted:

Did you think I was saying that there would not be any increase in crime when you release prisoners early? I never said anything like that. Very common for you to take on things which I never said. The OP stated that there is "major havoc"and "a major uptick in burglaries, robberies, and assaults" in Washington State. He gives no backup for the claim and then refers me to movies from before the pandemic. I looked through the internet and also could not find any statistics. You respond by giving me and on related single incident. I'm sorry but it doesn't show anything about havoc in a rampage of crimes in Washington state from the pandemic.

I wish I didn't take the time to respond to you. But your comments are, here I go,  usually not as clever as you think.

I think that family of the person murdered would consider that major havoc. This is not Washington state specific. It's in general.  Very bad principal to release prisoners.  Complete link here: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0...onavirus-murder.html

Also shows you did not read the article...since my link was incomplete.  I'm surprised this happened in FL.  What goes through a person's mind that makes them think it is a good idea to release prisoners?  The poor family.  I will also have to search as I know this happened somewhere else to a girl.  

@napacat posted:

I think that family of the person murdered would consider that major havoc. Of course it is, but a single incident is not what the OP was referring to. Any death is sad, but to the public at large a single death is not "major havoc" nor does it prove that there is "a major uptick in burglaries, robberies, and assaults."

This is not Washington state specific. And WE were talking about Washington state.

It's in general.  Very bad principal to release prisoners. Who said it's not? Not me, so who are you talking to? I think governors are dealing with an unprecedented crisis. It's not helped by having decades of over-crowded prisons because the US have the highest percentage of incarcerated people in the world.

  Complete link here: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0...onavirus-murder.html

Also shows you did not read the article...since my link was incomplete. It worked fine for me so again what are you talking about?  I'm surprised this happened in FL.  I saw it was in FL, that's why I said you were off topic. What goes through a person's mind that makes them think it is a good idea to release prisoners?  I don't know.

Last edited by The Old Man
@napacat posted:

And how about that new press secretary.  She's a ball of fire.  That briefing today showing the press the questions they should be asking was right on point and very entertaining.

The President's new press secretary is brilliant.  She held up for all to see Mr. Trump's check, whereby he donates his salary to some worthy entity, showing to the world his account number and routing number.  Gives a whole new meaning to the concept of a moron.

She may be a "ball of fire" but she is likely to flame out quite quickly with mistakes like this.

@mneeley490 posted:

If you, TOM, were in the widget-making business, and you stated that there has been a major uptick in the sale of widgets, I, not knowing much about widgets or even being involved with them, would very likely take your word for it. I am in this business.

Widgets are not as important as "major havoc" and "a major uptick in burglaries, robberies, and assaults." However, if you doubted my widget sales during the pandemic (they're used to make PPE as you know) it would take me about one minute to generate a report on my sales. Also since we're talking about my current sales I would not keep referring you look at my last year's, or even earlier, annual reports from TOM Widgets Inc.

@billhike posted:

I think all the people outraged at the silent protests by NFL players in recent seasons better buckle up come this fall.

Peacefully protest, get blackballed.  Protest the killing of a black man by 4 cops in broad daylight, 45 threatens to shoot you.  But if you're a white terrorist with an AR-15 at the state capital building, 45 supports you.  Nov. 3rd can't come fast enough

@doubled posted:

If you want the a-hole out on Nov 3, people in swing states need to come out and vote.   Legal experts and activists need to counter the voter suppression that will likely occur in those swing states.  Everyone needs to do their part.  

Not just that. You need to actively campaign for Biden. Volunteer to canvas door to door or in a phone bank. Talk to your friends and explain why Trump must be defeated. Be armed with facts and stats. Donate money. Talk to your undecided neighbours. Etc etc. 

The Racist in Chief, "When the looting starts the shooting starts." Looting is wrong but nowhere in the US are police officers allowed to execute looters before they're even arrested. The WH tries to defend this "clever" rhyme by saying, "The President did not glorify violence. He clearly condemned it."

You know, the old, don't believe what you read, this is what you read.

Last edited by The Old Man
@napacat posted:

Just checking...no mention yet.    That is one disturbing video to watch.  How in the world did the other officer's not try to make that guy stop.  Really disgusting.  This was more disturbing to see than the jogger in GA.  Tragic...

Rioters and looters are criminals. Their efforts would have been better spent finding the murdering scumbag cop and his POS partners from the scene and stringing them up in the street. How’s that?

Last edited by billhike
@purplehaze posted:

Interesting that his first post about the Milwaukee troubles was about the riots, not the murder of an unresisting handcuffed black man.  

PH

Ditto!

Also, the actions taken is what is required for a justified response all too often, unfortunately. You didn’t see the governor calling major press conferences prior to the outbreak. You didn’t hear or read from the racist in the Oval Office calling the governor or mayor prior to the outbreak. 

The racist in the Oval Office fans the flame, uses inflammatory words and recommends shooting law breakers ( not arresting) as opposed to say... calling the Floyd family, working with authorities prior to an outbreak to see if the justice department can assist and have a calming voice and telling the city justice would be done. 

I will be interesting to see what the 18 prior complaints were against the officer and why the other officers didn’t intervene. 

Why would anyone else have to agree? They are my words. The cops in question are subhuman garbage who make every good police officer’s job that much more difficult. There is absolutely no justification for their vile actions. F them.

Are you ok with the “president’s” tweet about shooting looters, or are you buying into his pathetic attempt at walking it back? 

Last edited by billhike

So Billhike thinks it would be better that  rioter's "efforts would have been better spent finding the murdering scumbag cop and his POS partners from the scene and stringing them up in the street."  And you all agree with that?

Now that is interesting. You take issue with a faceless, powerless person on a wine forum, yet say nothing about the most powerful person in the world saying shoot the looters. 🤣😂🤣

Talk about zero credibility...

Last edited by wine+art

Actually, I don’t see a single answer to your question other than Bill’s. I’m glad you find that satisfactory. 

Looks like protesters in multiple cities this evening as the orange pile of dung writes executive orders against Twitter.🤣😂😅

No one can ever argue the POS ( Dump, not you arsenal) has his priorities in order. 

So Billhike thinks it would be better that  rioter's "efforts would have been better spent finding the murdering scumbag cop and his POS partners from the scene and stringing them up in the street."  And you all agree with that?

I agree with billhike more often than not, however I disagree with him on this. As much as I do agree that the cop who was directly responsible and the 3 others who did nothing to stop him are total Ps of S, we are a nation of laws and the legal system should deal with lawbreakers whether they be civilians, cops or presidents.  

PH

Last edited by purplehaze
@purplehaze posted:

I agree with billhike more often than not, however I disagree with him on this. As much as I do agree that the cop who was directly responsible and the 3 others who did nothing to stop him are total Ps of S, we are a nation of laws and the legal system should deal with lawbreakers whether they be civilians, cops or presidents.  

PH

There's a certain level of morality that I hope all of my fellow Americans share.  There's also this other thing called common sense.  We shoot the shit on a forum because it's a forum and we should.  The president of the US telling when the looting starts, the shooting starts and has a few tweets before and after talking about inept local govt and how the national guard is coming in is an entirely different level.

So on that note, I will throw it out, where are all the 2A folks that were oh so worried about big federal government restricting our freedoms.  Military rolls in, that's curfew.  Isnt the point of the 2A exactly to stop this?  Your grievances are no longer heard, so you get out en masse on the streets.  I recall the boston tea party involved some destruction of property also.

Also, did anybody see the false flag planting by the yet to be determined cop with an umbrella and a hammer breaking down t he glass at the autozone that folks were blaming the looters?

Actually, I just asked if anyone else agreed with Billhike's suggestion. I guess I got your answer above. Anybody else want to reply? Would like to hear from the lawyers on this Forum (Irwin, others?)

not sure what the question is.  I am sure that 100% of us think that murder is wrong.  I am sure that 100% of us think it is wrong when it is a drug dealer killing a drug dealer, or a drug dealer shooting a gun and having the bullet hit a passerby, or when a police officer, acting under color of law, kills someone.

Now, it seems that Mr. Floyd was a suspect in a non-violent crime, namely trying to pass a false $20 bill.  The video that I have seen shows him walking calmly while restrained with handcuffs before, for some reason unknown to me, he is on the ground, with a cop's foot on his neck.  I don't practice criminal law in MInnesota, but, I am confident in saying that Mr. Floyd's alleged crime is not punishable by death in Minnesota, or any sort of physical punishment.

From what I have observed with Baltimore City police officers in court and otherwise, if a police officer were to testify that the planets go around the sun, I'm not sure I'd believe him.  Of course, there are some police officers who are good people, and one should not throw out the whole barrel of apples if one apple is rotten.  But some police forces are so corrupt and rotten that fumigating the orchard is the correct approach.

I disagree that the officers in question here in Minnesota should be tracked down by vigilantes and summarily executed.  I think they should be tried first, and if convicted, should be placed in cages and wheeled around the city so that citizens can throw eggs and rotten tomatoes at them, and then piss on them.  You could charge a few bucks for this privilege and raise some funds for a good cause.  Then, the cops should be taken out an summarily executed.

Look...these killings of black men in custody have been going on for a long time. It's just that recently there has sometimes been cellphone video.  Does any rational person think that these in custody killings commenced with the advent of cellphones? 

That's kinda what I think at this moment of anger and disgust.

I don't support rioters and looters.  I think that reaction, by people who perceive that they have no power other than to do this to make a statement, is a terrible thing.  These people should be educated to register to vote, run for office, and overthrow the system from within.

 

 

 

@irwin posted:

not sure what the question is.  I am sure that 100% of us think that murder is wrong.  I am sure that 100% of us think it is wrong when it is a drug dealer killing a drug dealer, or a drug dealer shooting a gun and having the bullet hit a passerby, or when a police officer, acting under color of law, kills someone.

Now, it seems that Mr. Floyd was a suspect in a non-violent crime, namely trying to pass a false $20 bill.  The video that I have seen shows him walking calmly while restrained with handcuffs before, for some reason unknown to me, he is on the ground, with a cop's foot on his neck.  I don't practice criminal law in MInnesota, but, I am confident in saying that Mr. Floyd's alleged crime is not punishable by death in Minnesota, or any sort of physical punishment.

From what I have observed with Baltimore City police officers in court and otherwise, if a police officer were to testify that the planets go around the sun, I'm not sure I'd believe him.  Of course, there are some police officers who are good people, and one should not throw out the whole barrel of apples if one apple is rotten.  But some police forces are so corrupt and rotten that fumigating the orchard is the correct approach.

I disagree that the officers in question here in Minnesota should be tracked down by vigilantes and summarily executed.  I think they should be tried first, and if convicted, should be placed in cages and wheeled around the city so that citizens can throw eggs and rotten tomatoes at them, and then piss on them.  You could charge a few bucks for this privilege and raise some funds for a good cause.  Then, the cops should be taken out an summarily executed.

Look...these killings of black men in custody have been going on for a long time. It's just that recently there has sometimes been cellphone video.  Does any rational person think that these in custody killings commenced with the advent of cellphones? 

That's kinda what I think at this moment of anger and disgust.

I don't support rioters and looters.  I think that reaction, by people who perceive that they have no power other than to do this to make a statement, is a terrible thing.  These people should be educated to register to vote, run for office, and overthrow the system from within.

 

 

 

Best thing I've read in a very long time. Especially the last para. 

During my life there's been a number of major riots. I vaguely remember the original Watts Riot of 1965, said to be the first urban riot. Martin Luther King riots which resemble more closely this outbreak of pockets across the US, the Democratic Convention's "police riot" and I think the worst of all, the Rodney King verdict riots in 1992. My mother and stepfather lived in LA and I would be up there at least once a month plus my business took me there regularly before, and then after to survey the damage to stores I supplied. It was truly horrible with I think something like 60 people dead. All I could remember during the time was doesn't someone have a plan in the police department? This one has the potential to turn into the worst.

Right now I'm watching a store in LA getting looted by people of all races, creeds and colors. Finally America's coming together on something! It is so hard to believe how unprepared Los Angeles was for this. Especially with almost everyone in city government  being there during the 1992 riots. The National Guard is apparently arriving at midnight. I just can't believe they weren't pre-staged.

And during these times a number of Americans brought us not only a racist and a bigot, but the worst and most incompetent president in modern history. Just in time to take on a pandemic, by denying, and foot-dragging and offering insane medical advice. And to address issues of race and justice for which he  has no standing or credibility. Big boo boo.

Last edited by The Old Man
@napacat posted:

You really find a need to make a non-political statement political? Self-congratulating and a non-achievement....what a moronic statement.  

Go join the rioters for a more achievable and self-congratulating experience.

I doubt you know what a moronic statement is.  Here are a few examples in the last couple of months:

“It’s a very contagious virus. It’s incredible. But it’s something we have tremendous control of.”

“I always treated the Chinese Virus very seriously.”

 “A drug called Chloroquine … is showing very, very encouraging early results, and we’re going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately, and that’s where the FDA has been so great, they’ve gone through the approval process, and it’s been approved.”

Last edited by doubled
@napacat posted:

What a great sight to see the launch today.  America back in space.  Pretty awesome.

I always thought Musk was South African