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@winetarelli posted:

FWIW: Trump is a malignant narcissist.  The modern most well known historical equivalent would be Saddam Hussein.  Adolf Hitler had many aspects difficult to identify, but despite his charisma, his overriding psychological trait was necrophilia — he was a lover of death and destruction. Different types of sociopaths. 

I think he's closer to Mussolini, however Mussolini was a newspaper editor, a writer, an intellectual and he fought in the trenches in WW I. Our would-be dictator is of course a coward with a vocabulary consisting of about three adjectives and the inability to string together two coherent sentences in a row. But he's sure got the Il Duce mugging face down cold.

Last edited by The Old Man
@napacat posted:

Why don’t you really think why that is for yourself. And don’t try to be politically correct.

If you think that minorities (or women, for that matter) get the same justice as white men, then there's really no helping you. 

And for what it's worth, being politically correct isn't a bad thing. It's simply not being an a-hole to people who are different than you because of their differences. Is it really so hard? But I suppose you want to go back to the good ole days of when America was "great" so you don't have to be thoughtful of other people and their feelings.   

From Nixon's '68 inaugural speech. Striking, with the space launch and riots in the news:

"We find ourselves rich in goods but ragged in spirit, reaching with magnificent precision for the moon but falling into raucous discord on earth. We are caught in war, wanting peace. We're torn by division, wanting unity."

Here is LBJ, speaking in the summer of 1965 following riots in a variety of places:

 “Not even the sternest police action nor the most effective federal troops can ever create lasting peace in our cities. The only genuine long-range solution for what has happened, lies in an attack, mounted at every level, upon the conditions that breed despair and breed violence.
All of us, I think, know what those conditions are: ignorance,
discrimination, slums, poverty, disease, not enough jobs. We should
attack these conditions — not because we are frightened by conflict,
but because we are fired by conscience. We should attack them because
there is simply no other way to achieve a decent and orderly society in
America.”

Here is the current President, tweeting:

“when the looting starts, the shooting starts.”

Is it November yet?

@irwin posted:

From Nixon's '68 inaugural speech. Striking, with the space launch and riots in the news:

"We find ourselves rich in goods but ragged in spirit, reaching with magnificent precision for the moon but falling into raucous discord on earth. We are caught in war, wanting peace. We're torn by division, wanting unity."

Here is LBJ, speaking in the summer of 1965 following riots in a variety of places:

 “Not even the sternest police action nor the most effective federal troops can ever create lasting peace in our cities. The only genuine long-range solution for what has happened, lies in an attack, mounted at every level, upon the conditions that breed despair and breed violence.
All of us, I think, know what those conditions are: ignorance,
discrimination, slums, poverty, disease, not enough jobs. We should
attack these conditions — not because we are frightened by conflict,
but because we are fired by conscience. We should attack them because
there is simply no other way to achieve a decent and orderly society in
America.”

Here is the current President, tweeting:

“when the looting starts, the shooting starts.”

Is it November yet?

Irwin, post quotes from presidents and any low IQ person could pick out which is from the current reality TV fraud and conman. When a person has no intellectual depth, is completely devoid of empathy, is clearly a racist, a fake Christian, has zero absolutes other than himself and a vocabulary of an 8th grader his lack of articulation will standout from all other presidents. 

Clinton, which is someone I have never liked or trusted is the only reason we have this buffoon and cancer in office in my opinion. 

@The Old Man posted:

I think he's closer to Mussolini, however Mussolini was a newspaper editor, a writer, an intellectual and he fought in the trenches in WW I. Our would-be dictator is of course a coward with a vocabulary consisting of about three adjectives and the inability to string together two coherent sentences in a row. But he's sure got the Il Duce mugging face down cold.

I like the Mussolini comparison. 

Trump would LOVE to put on a military uniform and have his chest covered by metals. He is such a fraud. 

@g-man posted:

Nice, I'll put on the watch list for tonight (pun intended) =P

... and pun caught!

while I own dozens of watches, I have never pulled the trigger on a GS, but it isn’t due to lack of respect. A friend of mine in my watch club owns several which he has brought to offlines. 

At a RedBar Group offline I attended there was a PP employee in attendance once. He pulled out his loupe and examined several GS watches. He said he had to admit the finishes for GS had nothing on PP. I have found that GS is a timepiece that never shows as well in photos as they do in person. 

 

@wine+art posted:

... and pun caught!

while I own dozens of watches, I have never pulled the trigger on a GS, but it isn’t due to lack of respect. A friend of mine in my watch club owns several which he has brought to offlines. 

At a RedBar Group offline I attended there was a PP employee in attendance once. He pulled out his loupe and examined several GS watches. He said he had to admit the finishes for GS had nothing on PP. I have found that GS is a timepiece that never shows as well in photos as they do in person. 

 

Dont undersell GS 's spring drive accuracy. One of the most accurate mechanical watches in the world and certainly for the price range

@doubled posted:

1) Mattis said it wasn't appropriate for him to comment on a sitting president, and 2) how do you know he didn't speak up? Why do you think he resigned?

Great read by the way.

1) He worked for a president who has acted inappropriately since his first day in office. I think we can bend the rules a little bit in this age of a dishonorable presidency. I'm guessing he was more than a little shocked during his time.

2) Publicly. Not happy at work?

"Great read by the way."

I heard most of what he said today by excerpts read on TV. Knowing more doesn't change anything that I was thinking. I have more respect for Mark Esper (kind of.)

Last edited by The Old Man
@The Old Man posted:

1) He worked for a president who has acted inappropriately since his first day in office. I think we can bend the rules a little bit in this age of a dishonorable presidency. I'm guessing he was more than a little shocked during his time.

2) Publicly. Not happy at work?

"Great read by the way."

I heard most of what he said today by excerpts read on TV. Knowing more doesn't change anything that I was thinking. I have more respect for Mark Esper (kind of.)

the article i linked literally has his entire response.  Why pull a napacat and not read the transcript??

@g-man posted:

the article i linked literally has his entire response.  Why pull a napacat and not read the transcript??

That's not fair! You have to have a bowl of mush for brains, or be a fellow racist and bigot, to support the president after seeing his response to both the pandemic and now this moment of racial truth.

I'll read it but I don't expect that to change much of what I thought. You know I think there is a lot of this kind of talk going on among a number of Republican politicians and Trump's staff but they all bend the knee. It's very rare they speak up while they are still a part of the court.

Last edited by The Old Man
@The Old Man posted:

That's not fair! You have to have a bowl of mush for brains, or be a fellow racist and bigot, to support the president after seeing his response to both the pandemic and now this moment of racial truth.

I'll read it but I don't expect that to change much of what I thought. You know I think there is a lot of this kind of talk going on among a number of Republican politicians and Trump's staff but they all bend the knee. It's very rare they speak up while they are still a part of the court.

Let's see what happens to Esper after his comments today. 

@napacat posted:

Rice is a terrible choice...as is Warren.  All of Wall Street said they were voting for Trump if she was the nominee and I would bet the same if VP.  Oh pick Pocahontas...please.

The below is a good read and timely:  

https://www.newsmax.com/bernar...019/01/22/id/899297/

That is an  interesting  piece, Napacat.  Mr. Floyd wasn't shot.  That fellow in New York, Eric Garner, wasn't shot.  Here in Baltimore, Freddie Gray wasn't shot. I don't keep data on this, but if you don't think that the police rough up, choke, kick, beat, and otherwise assault African American men at an unreasonable rate, and that they don't stop them and arrest them at unreasonable rates and for little cause, and stop them and so forth, then you are dwelling in an alternative universe.

Is it November yet?

@irwin posted:

That is an  interesting  piece, Napacat.  Mr. Floyd wasn't shot.  That fellow in New York, Eric Garner, wasn't shot.  Here in Baltimore, Freddie Gray wasn't shot. I don't keep data on this, but if you don't think that the police rough up, choke, kick, beat, and otherwise assault African American men at an unreasonable rate, and that they don't stop them and arrest them at unreasonable rates and for little cause, and stop them and so forth, then you are dwelling in an alternative universe.

Is it November yet?

African Americans are 4 times as likely to be stopped by the police for infractions and drug-use crimes (holding per capita infraction/use rates constant).  This, itself, leads to disparate outcomes.

Holding income and population density constant, police are only slightly more likely to use lethal force against a black person. *However* “income and population density” (ie. living in a ghetto) is a part of American institutional racism that should be addressed.  Also, being poor Or living in an urban center should not make your life less worthy.

Since 2015, when there were 40 cases of unarmed black people killed by the police, the number has dropped. It was 9 in 2019. And, of course, this also happens to white people (although at a lower rate).  But, beyond that still being unacceptable, there are other biases in the criminal justice system against black people such as those mentioned above and increased average sentences for the same crimes as white counterparts. 

The way *some* police have responded to these protests is to attack nonviolent protesters. There are enough videos of police essentially starting riots right now that no sane person could come to any conclusion other than major reforms need to take place in our policing.  Like all the peaceful protesters essentially not being covered by the news, I’m sure all the good policing is being given the same treatment.  But there is simply too much bad policing (often more based upon “authority” than overt racism) on display right now to turn a blind eye.

I remain deeply concerned about increases in COVID rates and death due to the timing of these protests. More African Americans have died of Coronavirus in the past 3 months than died at police hands (unarmed AND armed) and hate crimes and domestic terrorism in the past 20 years combined. I understand the pain and frustration, but all evidence is that these protests will result in years if not decades worth of equivalent death over the course of the coming months. But, given that the protests did happen, I certainly hope they bring about real change in how policing works in this country and open up a path to combating racism beyond issues of lethal police force. 

@irwin posted:

That is an  interesting  piece, Napacat.  Mr. Floyd wasn't shot.  That fellow in New York, Eric Garner, wasn't shot.  Here in Baltimore, Freddie Gray wasn't shot. I don't keep data on this, but if you don't think that the police rough up, choke, kick, beat, and otherwise assault African American men at an unreasonable rate, and that they don't stop them and arrest them at unreasonable rates and for little cause, and stop them and so forth, then you are dwelling in an alternative universe.

Is it November yet?

That's true Irwin.  I think what happened to Mr. Floyd was disgusting and reprehensible.  For Mr. Garner, doesn't seem as cut and dry to me.  They tried to cooperate with him for 30+ minutes prior to him being placed in a choke hold.  Now, it can be debated whether any of that was necessary for selling individual cigarette.  

Freddie Gray...don't have enough info to discuss here.  I know the police rough up some suspects.  I know that African Americans are stopped for little cause...I just don't think the vast majority of police are looking to give AA  a hard time every day for the fun of it.

My point in general was there does not need to be a massive overhaul of  police departments across the U.S.  

Schumer this am stated that "the vast majority of the protesters are good and decent people".  Yet, he cannot extend or extrapolate the same outlook to the police in this country.    

Has anyone seen the police in NY picking up the piles of bricks that have been dropped off at locations to be used to smash windows and cause major damage?  

I will still chose to align myself on the side of law enforcement.  They are overall an amazing group of people.

@winetarelli posted:

Actually, I think it will be Warren. Although Susan Rice would be my choice. 

Problem for Dems if Warren gets added to the Biden ticket is that the Republican governor of Massachusetts gets to choose who replaces her Senate seat.  The chances of Charlie Baker choosing another Democrat are slim to none, and slim left the building awhile ago.  

Biden’s campaign has a major Gordian knot of which female VP candidate to choose.  Kamala Harris gives you zero (and quite possibly, negative) bounce in the crucial swing/purple states.  Her record as District Attorney of San Francisco and Attorney General of California isn’t appreciably better than Klobuchar’s checked history as a County Attorney in MN.  Klobuchar otherwise would be a shoo-in IMO, as she provides Midwestern resonance/balance to the ticket.  

I personally think Biden goes with a minority for his pick.  That puts Val Demings, Keisha Lance Bottoms and Susan Rice also into the mix amongst African-Americans (Stacey Abrams isn’t well known enough IMO), with Catherine Cortez Masto and Michelle Lujan Grisham the top contenders amongst Latinas.  If there are no major skeletons in her closet, I’ll speculate that  Grisham would be the choice.  The title of governor will almost always have the most gravitas amongst politicians at the non-federal level (Sarah Palin notwithstanding).   

@purplehaze posted:

How about Condoleeza Rice?  Brilliant woman.  A moderate, centrist Republican.  She'd bring crossover appeal, strong international experience, a tremendous knowledge of Russia, and would cover the African American woman angle quite nicely.  Just a thought...

PH

Not a bad idea at all.  But Biden said he wanted someone ready to govern on Day One should something happen to him, which I would take to mean someone who has had to make hard decisions in a previous job.  Don't think she ticks that box, ditto most senators and congressmen.  Exceptions would be Harris, who was Attorney General, and the governors, none of whom are African American (you see where I'm going with this.....)

@bman posted:

But Biden said he wanted someone ready to govern on Day One should something happen to him, which I would take to mean someone who has had to make hard decisions in a previous job.  Don't think she ticks that box...

Secretary of State for 4 years and National Security Advisor for 4  years.  Between those two, I consider the box checked.  

PH

Last edited by purplehaze
@napacat posted:

 

My point in general was there does not need to be a massive overhaul of  police departments across the U.S.  

Schumer this am stated that "the vast majority of the protesters are good and decent people".  Yet, he cannot extend or extrapolate the same outlook to the police in this country.    

Has anyone seen the police in NY picking up the piles of bricks that have been dropped off at locations to be used to smash windows and cause major damage?  

I will still chose to align myself on the side of law enforcement.  They are overall an amazing group of people.

It does, you need to get rid of all police unions.  Even in the midst of this, they're still stoking the police to pursue more violence.

You honestly need better news sources.

Pilles of bricks, so conveniently arranged and "strategically placed" in very neat piles on pallets surrounded by construction barricades on the side walk right next to a build with scaffolding up.  What would be the simplest explanation for this?  

1.  NY has stopped construction because of corona virus so there are piles of neatly arranged bricks on pallets right outside the construction site.

2.  Someone figured out a way to lift, hoist, 10000 pounds of bricks into a truck, then used either a pallet jack or a fork lift to get it back out again in front of a building construction site?  Because it sounds like you've never done any sort of brick work before.  It's heavy and it's no fun "transporting" around unless  you have the proper tools and since NY is under no construction phase still, the cops would easily if people are driving around with forklifts.  It's even less fun removing it brick by brick and neatly arranging them onto a pallet by hand.

There are also supposedly "proof" of photos showing broken up concrete in blue recycle bins "strategically" placed areas around the city.  More than a few councilmen have visited these photos in their district and they pan across to, you guessed it, construction activity, in this case illegal, but at least there was a brand new concrete sidewalk in the place of the debris.  Also amusing though is that these "criminals" happen to have NY City issued recycle bins meant for debris and so neatly placed the rather large broken concrete pieces into a pile and arranged them neatly right in front of a new side walk.

And your attitude is endemic to the situation at hand.  No one is saying all cops are bad.  Life isn't a duality.  Only those who are ignorant, think that it is , and usually for the sake of stubbornness ensuring that society never moves toward a better place.  What we are saying is that a group of folks who have been entrusted to maintain society, must include everyone in society.  A group of folks who have legally been given lethal weapons to enforce society's rules must be held to a higher standard, which means 1 bad cop is still unacceptable, and having unions protect these bad cops is even more unacceptable.  NY City alone has paid out more than 1 Billion in civil lawsuits stemming from police brutality.  The police, their pensions  and unions paid exactly 0$ in all of these.   This would be a systemic problem, and one that does require massive overhaul of the system.

 

Last edited by g-man
@purplehaze posted:

Secretary of State for 4 years and National Security Adviser for 4  years.  Between those two, I consider the box checked.  

PH

??? Compared to a conman that has filed bankruptcy 6 times in his business career, had a reality TV show, ran a fraud charity that had to be disbanded and millions paid in fines, ran a fraud university that also had to be closed and paid a $25 million fine, writes checks to whores to keep there story out of the news and......  

Rice can’t be qualified, PH!🤣😂

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