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@purplehaze posted:

Read Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin, and get back to us.  

There are countless other examples, but I'll let Lincoln's remarkable appointments of William Seward (Secretary of State),  Salmon Chase (Secretary of the Treasury) and Edward Bates (Attorney General) serve to rebut your ridiculous assertion above.

Not only were they competent, they all disliked Lincoln immensely.  

Here's a list of "across party line" appointments by both Republican and Democratic Presidents in case you need more data.  Click..... 

PH

Fair enough PH. Should have been more clear. Any modern politician.

Holding any of the clowns that hold public office right now up to Lincoln’s standard is going to leave the modern guys being weighed, measured and found wanting. 

@csm posted:

For the record, my wife is Jewish. My son is Jewish. My ex-wife is Jewish.  I assumed you were referring to the Charlottesville incident (wife also is a Wahoo) where Trump has, wrongly in my opinion, been credited with calling the Neo-Nazi scum that were there “fine people”. I’ve listened to the whole speech. I don’t think that’s what he said.  

I’m also not defending Trump. I can’t stand him. I just think it’s counterproductive to go beyond his actual words.  You don’t need to embellish. His actual words are more than enough.

Your citing of all of the facts you did are nothing more than a red herring.  I said nothing of the rise in anti-Semitism. Or the massacre in Pittsburgh (victims lived in my in-laws’ community in Florida for what it is worth).  I was referring to one specific incident. Anyway, keep calling names and making assumptions.  It’s really all you do well.

Fucking idiot over and out. I’m going to go grab my Trump bear and screw myself. Like the putz I am. 

Those red herrings are the truth. Apparently billhike thinks I'm calling you an anti-semite. I had no idea what your religion is. I'm saying the president is an anti-semite and I'm giving you some examples. I think in your excusing his reaction to Charleston you are enabling an anti-semite. Many members of my Chabad also think he didn't say what he said.

As I said the great majority of Jews see right through this demagogue, a small minority do not. I'm proud of that.

Last edited by The Old Man
@billhike posted:

csm I’m sorry you got dragged into attacks - especially  the one by the miserable jagoff in California whose only reason for existing seems to be trying to spread his misery to others. F*** that waste of cells. Remember, the dumbass also insinuated vint was antisemitic recently. Tool.

billhike please quote anywhere where I called him anti-Semitic. Nor, as I clearly explained, did I call vint anti-Semitic. As I said I was pointing out an interesting fact about Hebrew grammar not putting him down. Please quote where I called either one of them anti-semitic or anyone else other than the president.

Last edited by The Old Man
@The Old Man posted:

Those red herrings are the truth. Apparently billhike thinks I'm calling you an anti-semite. I had no idea what your religion is. I'm saying the president is an anti-semite and I'm giving you some examples. I think in your excusing his reaction to Charleston you are enabling an anti-semite. Many members of my Chabad also think he didn't say what he said.

As I said the great majority of Jews see right through this demagogue, a small minority do not. I'm proud of that.

Red herrings can’t be the truth. By definition. And Charlottesville. Not Charleston. 

He never once said the Nazi pigs there were fine people. There is nothing to excuse. 

i have a hard time with calling this president an anti-semite.  Lots of other things yes. anti-Semitic no.

 

@csm posted:

Red herrings can’t be the truth. By definition.

You got me, I should have just said the truth. Because it all was. You of won't answer any of them like the unprecedented rise in anti-semitic incidents is since this demagogue took office. Not to mention rise in anti-Hispanic attacks (what do you expect when the president says the majority of people coming from Mexico and rapists, murderers and drug dealers (?)), more attacks on blacks, Look at what just happened in Georgia. And of course an increase in threats to Muslims--you can't think that's just luck of the draw can you?. These are facts and they're not coincidences.

Charleston. I stand corrected.

He never once said the Nazi pigs there were fine people. There is nothing to excuse.

I understand that a number of Jews feel that way. However a large majority will certainly vote against him November as they did in 2016.

 

 

Perhaps csm, you could explain to billhike that I didn't call you an anti-semite. Bill you remind me sometimes of Scut Farkus's toady Grover Dill in Christmas Story. You knew if Farkus was being tough with someone Dill's the type who would do the reach around to get his licks in.

Last edited by The Old Man
@The Old Man posted:

billhike please quote anywhere where I called him anti-Semitic. Nor, as I clearly explained, did I call vint anti-Semitic. As I said I was pointing out an interesting fact about Hebrew grammar not putting him down. Please quote where I called either one of them anti-semitic or anyone else other than the president.

I re-quoted your post directed at vint before you deleted/edited it and backtracked. Go find it yourself - it’s in the Passover thread. And I didn’t make the same claim regarding your exchange with csm. But you did make one of your unhinged attacks because he wouldn’t agree with you. It’s a pattern. Fuck off.

Last edited by billhike
@The Old Man posted:

Perhaps csm, you could explain to billhike that I didn't call you an anti-semite. Bill you remind me sometimes of Scut Farkus's toady Grover Dill in Christmas Story. You knew if Farkus was being tough with someone Dill's the type who would do the reach around to get his licks in.

Right, because I’ve never called out you’re being a whiny prick on my own. 

@billhike posted:

I re-quoted your post directed at vint before you deleted/edited it and backtracked. Go find it yourself - it’s in the Passover thread. And I didn’t make the same claim regarding your exchange with csm. But you did make one of your unhinged attacks because he wouldn’t agree with you. It’s a pattern. Fuck off.

I know what I wrote and I know what I meant. Your hate for me over the years has colored and twisted yourself into misreading my posts. I made a Hebrew grammar correction (again because I thought the Hebrew derivation was interesting) It was misinterpreted as an attack (again it wasn't.) I was then surprisingly attacked and I mused if it was an anti-Semitic attack. Again I did not call anyone an anti-Semite. I just didn't understand the attacks on me. I then explained what I had meant (about "correcting" Hebrew grammar.) But just like Grover you jumped in there too. There is it, go fuck yourself.

"And I didn’t make the same claim regarding your exchange with csm"

"Remember, the dumbass also insinuated vint was antisemitic recently."

Last edited by The Old Man

True story: I had a really difficult neighbor who thought everyone was a jerk here because they all gave her a hard time. I tried to explain to her that if so many others were giving her a hard time maybe It was her that was the problem not them? Then she moved away and left us. Her replacement taught us all what a real jerk could be. I wish we had the old jerk around here instead.

Last edited by bomba503

Whenever I look at this stream, I am amazed at the vitriol posted here from people who should know better.  It is not enough to spout their views on things, mostly political, but they have to attack anyone who might disagree with their views.  Everyone should strive to be better than this.  I have friends on both sides of the political spectrum and with some of those who are on the opposite side, I am able to have reasonable discussions of political views.  For those who are unable to have a rational discussion, I avoid having any discussion.  It is not worth it.  Try to be better.

@thistlintom posted:

Whenever I look at this stream, I am amazed at the vitriol posted here from people who should know better.  It is not enough to spout their views on things, mostly political, but they have to attack anyone who might disagree with their views.  Everyone should strive to be better than this.  I have friends on both sides of the political spectrum and with some of those who are on the opposite side, I am able to have reasonable discussions of political views.  For those who are unable to have a rational discussion, I avoid having any discussion.  It is not worth it.  Try to be better.

Agree. While I enjoy participating in political discussions here and pointing out Trump's nonsense and the harm he's doing to the US and the rest of the world, I  don't like the vitriol. Let's keep it civil. 

@thistlintom posted:

Whenever I look at this stream, I am amazed at the vitriol posted here from people who should know better.  It is not enough to spout their views on things, mostly political, but they have to attack anyone who might disagree with their views.  Everyone should strive to be better than this.  I have friends on both sides of the political spectrum and with some of those who are on the opposite side, I am able to have reasonable discussions of political views.  For those who are unable to have a rational discussion, I avoid having any discussion.  It is not worth it.  Try to be better.

I'll admit it, respectfully and without vitriol, I have a hard time having a reasonable discussion when I see my country going down while led by a racist, bigoted, teller of thousands of lies, sexist know-nothing demagogue. (I know you don't like my mantra of listing this man's serious flaws that make him unfit for the presidency, but I don't believe I've ever seen you even try to refute the facts I've brought up here in the past to support my views.) There were not two equally valid viewpoints in pre-1860s America (You're for slavery and I'm not so let's agree to disagree) and there certainly isn't today.

Last edited by The Old Man
@thistlintom posted:

Whenever I look at this stream, I am amazed at the vitriol posted here from people who should know better.  It is not enough to spout their views on things, mostly political, but they have to attack anyone who might disagree with their views.  Everyone should strive to be better than this.  I have friends on both sides of the political spectrum and with some of those who are on the opposite side, I am able to have reasonable discussions of political views.  For those who are unable to have a rational discussion, I avoid having any discussion.  It is not worth it.  Try to be better.

I tried this approach...didn’t really go well with folks here. I try not to be a name caller, but fail at times.  No reason people just cannot have different view points. 

I have said many times...that I despised Hillary so much that there was only one choice.  And on top of that, I agree a lot more with Republican ideology than a democratic one.   

@thistlintom posted:

Whenever I look at this stream, I am amazed at the vitriol posted here from people who should know better.  It is not enough to spout their views on things, mostly political, but they have to attack anyone who might disagree with their views.  Everyone should strive to be better than this.  I have friends on both sides of the political spectrum and with some of those who are on the opposite side, I am able to have reasonable discussions of political views.  For those who are unable to have a rational discussion, I avoid having any discussion.  It is not worth it.  Try to be better.

This

I miss the old days on these boards.  When I first joined almost 20 years ago I met so many amazing people, many of whom I consider friends, had some amazing times and tasted some fabulous wines, all the while learning and growing my love and appreciation of same.  The boards don't feel that way any longer, hence the fact I don't hang around or post much any more.  

Disappointing, and too bad.

Last edited by Vino Bevo

Anti-Semitic incidents in U.S. hit record high in 2019, report says

I met this rabbi in the picture at an event about year ago. I did not know at first who he was, but when I shook his hand it was wrapped with a blue cloth. Later I found out it was because he was missing a finger or two. As I said two days ago, starting in 2017 anti-Semitic attacks rose at their greatest rate since tracking was begun by the Anti-Defamation League. They have continued at this pace for the last three years. There was only one major change our country has experienced during that time frame and that's the presidency of a man who regularly spews venom and hate toward minorities.

@Vino Bevo posted:

I miss the old days on these boards.  When I first joined almost 20 years ago I met so many amazing people, many of whom I consider friends, had some amazing times and tasted some fabulous wines, all the while learning and growing my love and appreciation of same.  The boards don't feel that way any longer, hence the fact I don't hang around or post much any more.  

Disappointing, and too bad.

If you stay out of this particular thread I think you'll find that nothing has changed here except the numbers of participants has gone way down. This thread is the one place that WS has allowed political discussions (which I didn't even discover for years because I never visited this thread.) And yeah, political discussions, particularly in these times, can get very heated. So why not just change the channel?

Last edited by The Old Man

Seems to me that this thread is a necessary outlet through which those of us who wish to do so can share their political views (and other thoughts that are off topic) without interfering with other topics. Much like the former Madder Than Hell forum.

And yes, if the comments on this thread, one of dozens of threads here I would note, offend anyone then just ignore it. Much like one might ignore tv channels that offend or don't interest them. 

That said, I reiterate that there is no need for vitriol or name calling of our fellow forumites.  

Last edited by bman
@bman posted:

Seems to me that this thread is a necessary outlet through which those of us who wish to do so can share their political views (and other thoughts that are off topic) without interfering with other topics. Much like the former Madder Than Hell forum.

And yes, if the comments on this thread, one of dozens of threads here I would note, offend anyone then just ignore it. Much like one might ignore tv channels that offend or don't interest them. 

That said, I reiterate that there is no need for vitriol or name calling of our fellow forumites.  

I'll just never understand it. I'm on another forum with a member that just posts (to me) unbelievably ignorant things. So you know what I do? I don't read them anymore. It's quite easy.

@Vino Bevo posted:

This

I miss the old days on these boards.  When I first joined almost 20 years ago I met so many amazing people, many of whom I consider friends, had some amazing times and tasted some fabulous wines, all the while learning and growing my love and appreciation of same.  The boards don't feel that way any longer, hence the fact I don't hang around or post much any more.  

Disappointing, and too bad.

Yep

 

@bman posted:

Wow. Without your constant baiting while avoid any constructive discussion, this thread would be much more civil.

The hypocrisy is strong in this one!  

Really...I am not baiting anyone.  And I generally am not a name caller at all.  I put up quite a lot of alternative thoughts for discussion only to get bashed for not  being in group think with the rest of you.  

@bman posted:

Wow. Without your constant baiting while avoid any constructive discussion, this thread would be much more civil.

The hypocrisy is strong in this one!  

There is plenty of hypocrisy to go around. In one sense you are right that the thread would be more civil without Napa as there wouldn't be anyone who is willing to voice views different from all the progressive bullies here with to bash.

@thistlintom posted:

There is plenty of hypocrisy to go around. In one sense you are right that the thread would be more civil without Napa as there wouldn't be anyone who is willing to voice views different from all the progressive bullies here with to bash.

Ew, progressives, (By they way I'm not) evil wicked people. However, if the definition means being against (here we go TT, one day you'll really have to try and refute some of them) racism, bigotry, sexism, know-nothing-ism, anti-science, mocking of the disabled, mocking of POWs, demagoguery and lying daily on a monumental scale, then I guess I'm one of them. Didn't think any of those things I've been against for all my life could be taken to be controversial EXCEPT for people who support, or engage in, one or more of those things.

Last edited by The Old Man
@thistlintom posted:

There is plenty of hypocrisy to go around. In one sense you are right that the thread would be more civil without Napa as there wouldn't be anyone who is willing to voice views different from all the progressive bullies here with to bash.

TTom, as it happens one of the things I enjoy most here and on other social media is hearing from people who disagree with me.  Last thing I want is an echo chamber.  You and I have had a couple of spirited discussions which I appreciated, as you actually made counter points rather than attempts to bait. Ditto my recent encounter with csm here, someone I actually have met and know and like.

Napa has done that in the past as well but for the past few months, perhaps years, I don't recall a comment that can be called anything but baiting, or anything that makes an effort to actually rebut a point made here. I and others have gone to some length to use facts to back up our arguments but I just made a quick search of Napa's posts here going back to the beginning of the year and I see pretty much nothing but baiting. 

Add in his defence of clearly outrageous actions by Trump such as taking kids away from their families, putting them in cages and then losing track of who they are and how to get them back to their families and it's not hard to see why Napa takes the flack he takes.

@bman posted:

TTom, as it happens one of the things I enjoy most here and on other social media is hearing from people who disagree with me.  Last thing I want is an echo chamber.  You and I have had a couple of spirited discussions which I appreciated, as you actually made counter points rather than attempts to bait. Ditto my recent encounter with csm here, someone I actually have met and know and like.

Napa has done that in the past as well but for the past few months, perhaps years, I don't recall a comment that can be called anything but baiting, or anything that makes an effort to actually rebut a point made here. I and others have gone to some length to use facts to back up our arguments but I just made a quick search of Napa's posts here going back to the beginning of the year and I see pretty much nothing but baiting. 

Add in his defence of clearly outrageous actions by Trump such as taking kids away from their families, putting them in cages and then losing track of who they are and how to get them back to their families and it's not hard to see why Napa takes the flack he takes.

Ok...semi-fair point if you take it that way...but you may interpret another viewpoint as baiting.  I’m not.  Often I prefer to point out the double standard most of you have and the media.  It’s shocking and pretty disgusting.  Do you all not see it or recognize it?  Or are you all in on your blind hatred.

Ever see a video or two on college campuses where the host reads Trumps words but they don’t tell the young idiots who said it....and they all agree it sounds reasonable...until they reveal who said it.

@napacat posted:

Ok...semi-fair point if you take it that way...but you may interpret another viewpoint as baiting.  I’m not.  Often I prefer to point out the double standard most of you have and the media.  It’s shocking and pretty disgusting.  Do you all not see it or recognize it?  Or are you all in on your blind hatred.

Ever see a video or two on college campuses where the host reads Trumps words but they don’t tell the young idiots who said it....and they all agree it sounds reasonable...until they reveal who said it.

Given the fact that he never shuts up and has often tweeted dozens of times a day, odds are that he would come up up with the odd rational thought. So what?  Proves nothing, especially balanced against the millions of crazy and dangerous things he's said. 

And why do you suggest college students are idiots?  

 

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