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wineart 2 posted:
irwin posted:

Let's talk about the Roger Stone case for a second.  The case is called United States of America v. Roger Stone.  Mr. Stone was prosecuted and convicted for certain federal crimes.

The US Attorney's office in Washington DC handled the prosecution. The US Attorneys in the various jurisdictions are supervised (sort of) by the Attorney General of the US, who is the head of the Justice Department. The US Attorneys and the atty general are supposed to be on the side of the United State of America, one of the litigants.  Mr. Stone has one or more lawyers who are supposed to be on his side.

If a lawyer for Mr. Stone were to argue for a harsher sentence for Mr. Stone, he would be disbarred after a mental evaluation.  Here we have the US Government revising downward its sentencing recommendation at the request of either the President and/or the Attorney General.  That makes no sense to me.

Frankly, I think it's worse than asking some guy in the Ukraine to investigate Hunter Biden.

But, of course, the Federal Judge has the next to last word.  The President will commute the sentence of Mr. Stone after the November election, or grant him some other relief.  Maybe he'll be pardoned and will be the next ambassador to the EU.

Irwin, the gutless and spineless Susan Collins was absolutely correct. The POS in the Oval Office did learn his lesson. He can do whatever he wants, regardless of the separation of powers or the constitution and all without consequences. He did indeed learn a lesson.

He has asked foreign powers to give him dirt on his political opponents, ( Russia, China and Ukraine)  and now has the Justice Department intervening on behalf of his personal friends to the extent that all four federal attorneys resigned in protest.  Roger Stone was indicting by a grand jury. Then he was found guilty by a different jury. Then a proposed sentence was offered to a judge. The president then tweets all this is bogus. So, the grand jury thought after seeing evidence he should be indicted. Then a different jury finds him guilty after hearing the evidence. Two different juries, federal prosecutors and a judge hearing evidence find him guilty. Yet, the president directs his AG to get involved to protect a friend. Trump has proved he is about the law. So, I guess his friends are now as well. 

I do not think I’m overreacting saying the very fabric of our nation is in jeopardy. 

On the plus side, the judge can impose whatever sentence she wishes notwithstanding the sentencing recommendation.

On the negative side, none of it matters as Trump will pardon Stone and the rest of his henchmen within days, perhaps a single day, after the November election no matter how it turns out.

thistlintom posted:
The Old Man posted:
thistlintom posted:

Looks like Biden is in deep trouble, he must win S. Carolina to even have a chance.  Warren is looking worse than Biden.  Feel the Bern.

I love the now almost daily sports report about the Dems from the supporter of the bigot in chief. Give it a rest, only your fellow cult members care.

Gee, you are as cranky as Bernie.

As are all Democrats.  No sense of humor...no joy.  Just pure misery.  I say four more years of misery for them!!

flwino posted:
irwin posted:

Bernie Sanders got about 150,000 votes in a 2 person field in the NH primary in 2016. In a multi-candidate field this year, he got around 100,000.  He got about 26% of the vote, which means that 74% of the voters voted for someone else.

And now we lost two more candidates.  Some of the ones we lost, I would have voted for, if they ever made it to FL.  This process is too drawn out, and too costly.  Would love to have the UK system, a no confidence vote and your out, three months later election is over.   The idiot started running 01/20/17.

And now we lost two more candidates.  Some of the ones we lost, I would have voted for, if they ever made it to FL.

The above statement  is why you are an idiot.

napacat posted:
flwino posted:
irwin posted:

Bernie Sanders got about 150,000 votes in a 2 person field in the NH primary in 2016. In a multi-candidate field this year, he got around 100,000.  He got about 26% of the vote, which means that 74% of the voters voted for someone else.

And now we lost two more candidates.  Some of the ones we lost, I would have voted for, if they ever made it to FL.  This process is too drawn out, and too costly.  Would love to have the UK system, a no confidence vote and your out, three months later election is over.   The idiot started running 01/20/17.

And now we lost two more candidates.  Some of the ones we lost, I would have voted for, if they ever made it to FL.

The above statement  is why you are an idiot.

Takes one to know one, as I learned in kindergarten.  Go back under a rock

purplehaze posted:
bman posted:
On the plus side, the judge can impose whatever sentence she wishes notwithstanding the sentencing recommendation.

 

If Trump is looking for leniency from Judge Jackson, casting aspersions on her integrity probably isn't a great strategy.  She's known to be a good judge, but if I were her, I'd max Stone out.

PH

Too bad it is a Federal crime.  If a state crime the buffoon could not interfere.  Now we need to dump Barr for going along with king Donald the last

flwino posted:
purplehaze posted:
bman posted:
On the plus side, the judge can impose whatever sentence she wishes notwithstanding the sentencing recommendation.

 

If Trump is looking for leniency from Judge Jackson, casting aspersions on her integrity probably isn't a great strategy.  She's known to be a good judge, but if I were her, I'd max Stone out.

PH

Too bad it is a Federal crime.  If a state crime the buffoon could not interfere.  Now we need to dump Barr for going along with king Donald the last

Barr is not going anywhere, nor should he  And he just agreed to testify.  

wineart 2 posted:
irwin posted:

Let's talk about the Roger Stone case for a second.  The case is called United States of America v. Roger Stone.  Mr. Stone was prosecuted and convicted for certain federal crimes.

The US Attorney's office in Washington DC handled the prosecution. The US Attorneys in the various jurisdictions are supervised (sort of) by the Attorney General of the US, who is the head of the Justice Department. The US Attorneys and the atty general are supposed to be on the side of the United State of America, one of the litigants.  Mr. Stone has one or more lawyers who are supposed to be on his side.

If a lawyer for Mr. Stone were to argue for a harsher sentence for Mr. Stone, he would be disbarred after a mental evaluation.  Here we have the US Government revising downward its sentencing recommendation at the request of either the President and/or the Attorney General.  That makes no sense to me.

Frankly, I think it's worse than asking some guy in the Ukraine to investigate Hunter Biden.

But, of course, the Federal Judge has the next to last word.  The President will commute the sentence of Mr. Stone after the November election, or grant him some other relief.  Maybe he'll be pardoned and will be the next ambassador to the EU.

Irwin, the gutless and spineless Susan Collins was absolutely correct. The POS in the Oval Office did learn his lesson. He can do whatever he wants, regardless of the separation of powers or the constitution and all without consequences. He did indeed learn a lesson.

He has asked foreign powers to give him dirt on his political opponents, ( Russia, China and Ukraine)  and now has the Justice Department intervening on behalf of his personal friends to the extent that all four federal attorneys resigned in protest.  Roger Stone was indicting by a grand jury. Then he was found guilty by a different jury. Then a proposed sentence was offered to a judge. The president then tweets all this is bogus. So, the grand jury thought after seeing evidence he should be indicted. Then a different jury finds him guilty after hearing the evidence. Two different juries, federal prosecutors and a judge hearing evidence find him guilty. Yet, the president directs his AG to get involved to protect a friend. Trump has proved he is about the law. So, I guess his friends are now as well. 

I do not think I’m overreacting saying the very fabric of our nation is in jeopardy. 

+1

 

I suppose I get liking Trump’s policies or judicial appointees. I cannot *stand* his policies / appointments or his various -isms.  But I am capable of wrapping my head around the fact others like it. What I truly don’t get, however, is willingness to tear through the very fabric of liberal democracy and rule of law in order to achieve these ends. It turns out a heartbreaking percentage of the population — and nearly 100% of Congressional Republicans — simply don’t care too much about well-ordered democracy. Or, worse, have contempt for it and the very foundations of this country. 

Make America America Again  

 

winetarelli posted:
What I truly don’t get, however, is willingness to tear through the very fabric of liberal democracy and rule of law in order to achieve these ends. It turns out a heartbreaking percentage of the population — and nearly 100% of Congressional Republicans — simply don’t care too much about well-ordered democracy. Or, worse, have contempt for it and the very foundations of this country. 

 

I am watching a Frontline episode about young people, protesting and fighting to remain a democracy. Whatever they can do against the tyranny of China they'll do. And here we have people, for a few bucks--for a continued (since Obama) great stock market, who will let ours be destroyed in three short years.

Last edited by The Old Man

Trump has severely damaged the Department of State and the Department of Justice. He's damaged the military. He's emasculated the Department of the Environment, Interior and Education.  He has injured our relationships with England, France, Germany and other allies, while cozying up to Russia and N. Korea.  He has failed to protect the national parks and failed to assist US Citizens in Puerto Rico during national disasters.

What he has done is to make a bunch of money by having the secret service stay at his resorts frequently, at dramatic costs, and he has played a lot of golf.

He got the message from the impeachment. He can do anything he wants. He can murder a kitty cat on the White House lawn and 40% of Americans would defend him.

Geez.

 

 

 

 

irwin posted:

Michael Avenatti was found guilty of some crimes today.

Actually all three he was charged with. Down he goes. CNN really gave him too much positive attention a year ago. Of course his client, Stormy Daniels, was 100% right, but she was undone by his Avenatti's grandstanding. (And of course the corruption of justice that continues unabated daily in the Trump regime.)

However, this was good news. I'll let CNN--where you get a lot more truth than Fox State News--explain what happened:

"President Donald Trump is deeply invested in the idea that there is a 'Deep State' embedded within the government bureaucracy -- and centered in the Department of Justice -- which actively worked to defeat him in 2016 and then sought to undermine him once he won the presidency.

That conspiracy theory, which has never had much merit, suffered a near-fatal blow Friday afternoon when the Department of Justice declined to pursue criminal charges against former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe."

 

Bernie now has a significant lead in national polls and is causing panic in the Democratic party (see Carville's comments).  It appears that the Democrats move to the left has resulted in Bernie becoming the person to beat.  He has been coddled by the press as was Trump when he first ran in the primaries.  Might we see the same result?  Or will Bloomberg become the new darling of the more moderate part of the Democratic party resulting in a billionaire vs billionaire presidential contest?

thistlintom posted:

Bernie now has a significant lead in national polls and is causing panic in the Democratic party (see Carville's comments).  It appears that the Democrats move to the left has resulted in Bernie becoming the person to beat.  He has been coddled by the press as was Trump when he first ran in the primaries.  Might we see the same result?  Or will Bloomberg become the new darling of the more moderate part of the Democratic party resulting in a billionaire vs billionaire presidential contest?

I think it is more complicated than that.  Bernie plus Warren combined have never reached 40% in national polls.  They normally combine at around 37%.  But Warren has faded, and Klobuchar -- and of course, Bloomberg -- have risen.  So there is now an untenable game of 4 on 2 or, really, 3 on 1.  This will be a repeat of R's nominating Trump (apart from the racist, lawless, imbecilic, malignant narcissism thing) by not allowing it to dwindle to 1 on 1 early unless at least 2 out of Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Biden, Bloomberg drop out at the very very latest, the day after Super Tuesday.  And preferably before. 

Last edited by winetarelli
winetarelli posted:
thistlintom posted:

Bernie now has a significant lead in national polls and is causing panic in the Democratic party (see Carville's comments).  It appears that the Democrats move to the left has resulted in Bernie becoming the person to beat.  He has been coddled by the press as was Trump when he first ran in the primaries.  Might we see the same result?  Or will Bloomberg become the new darling of the more moderate part of the Democratic party resulting in a billionaire vs billionaire presidential contest?

I think it is more complicated than that.  Bernie plus Warren combined have never reached 40% in national polls.  They normally combine at around 37%.  But Warren has faded, and Klobuchar -- and of course, Bloomberg -- have risen.  So there is now an untenable game of 4 on 2 or, really, 3 on 1.  This will be a repeat of R's nominating Trump (apart from the racist, lawless, imbecilic, malignant narcissism thing) by not allowing it to dwindle to 1 on 1 early unless at least 2 out of Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Biden, Bloomberg drop out at the very very latest, the day after Super Tuesday.  And preferably before. 

Yes, it can get more complicated.  It wouldn't surprise me if there became a brokered convention.

As another note, I saw that Bloomberg is considering Hillary as a VP pick.

thistlintom posted:
winetarelli posted:
thistlintom posted:

Bernie now has a significant lead in national polls and is causing panic in the Democratic party (se

As another note, I saw that Bloomberg is considering Hillary as a VP pick.

Doubtful.  The only reporting I've seen on that is from the Drudge Report, hardly a reliable source especially given it's loyalty to Trump.  I expect it is nothing more than trouble-making or yet another attempt to stir up his Hillary-hating base.

bman posted:
thistlintom posted:
winetarelli posted:
thistlintom posted:

Bernie now has a significant lead in national polls and is causing panic in the Democratic party (se

As another note, I saw that Bloomberg is considering Hillary as a VP pick.

Doubtful.  The only reporting I've seen on that is from the Drudge Report, hardly a reliable source especially given it's loyalty to Trump.  I expect it is nothing more than trouble-making or yet another attempt to stir up his Hillary-hating base.

Being reported  by NY Post and Daily Mail also.  Maybe a trial balloon, but appears that it has been considered by Bloomberg.  I imagine they could do something about being in the same state, wouldn't be the first time residences have changed.  I think the idea of putting her on the ticket is silly and too early to think about.

thistlintom posted:
bman posted:
thistlintom posted:
winetarelli posted:
thistlintom posted:

Bernie now has a significant lead in national polls and is causing panic in the Democratic party (se

As another note, I saw that Bloomberg is considering Hillary as a VP pick.

Doubtful.  The only reporting I've seen on that is from the Drudge Report, hardly a reliable source especially given it's loyalty to Trump.  I expect it is nothing more than trouble-making or yet another attempt to stir up his Hillary-hating base.

Being reported  by NY Post and Daily Mail also.  Maybe a trial balloon, but appears that it has been considered by Bloomberg.  I imagine they could do something about being in the same state, wouldn't be the first time residences have changed.  I think the idea of putting her on the ticket is silly and too early to think about.

Daily Mail is quoting the Drudge Report so no more reliable than before, and the Post supports Trump so again, not the most reliable of sources.  

thistlintom posted:
winetarelli posted:
thistlintom posted:

Bernie now has a significant lead in national polls and is causing panic in the Democratic party (see Carville's comments).  It appears that the Democrats move to the left has resulted in Bernie becoming the person to beat.  He has been coddled by the press as was Trump when he first ran in the primaries.  Might we see the same result?  Or will Bloomberg become the new darling of the more moderate part of the Democratic party resulting in a billionaire vs billionaire presidential contest?

I think it is more complicated than that.  Bernie plus Warren combined have never reached 40% in national polls.  They normally combine at around 37%.  But Warren has faded, and Klobuchar -- and of course, Bloomberg -- have risen.  So there is now an untenable game of 4 on 2 or, really, 3 on 1.  This will be a repeat of R's nominating Trump (apart from the racist, lawless, imbecilic, malignant narcissism thing) by not allowing it to dwindle to 1 on 1 early unless at least 2 out of Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Biden, Bloomberg drop out at the very very latest, the day after Super Tuesday.  And preferably before. 

Yes, it can get more complicated.  It wouldn't surprise me if there became a brokered convention.

As another note, I saw that Bloomberg is considering Hillary as a VP pick.

Just shows how desperate the Dems are.  Terrible candidates and potentially a worse VP pick (Hillary)?  Oh please let it happen and guarantee a Trump landslide! 

Howard Schultz could have been a great choice. But you “woke” morons quashed that. 

irwin posted:

I think Hillary and Bloomberg are both from New York and I believe you can’t have two from the same state.  
meanwhile, talking about a brokered convention always starts around now.  But the prior brokered convention was 1952.  

True. The same was being said four years ago about the republicans. 

I am no democrat, but I don’t understand why they start their primary season with two states that don’t represent the overall makeup of their party well. 

wineart 2 posted:
irwin posted:

I think Hillary and Bloomberg are both from New York and I believe you can’t have two from the same state.  
meanwhile, talking about a brokered convention always starts around now.  But the prior brokered convention was 1952.  

True. The same was being said four years ago about the republicans. 

I am no democrat, but I don’t understand why they start their primary season with two states that don’t represent the overall makeup of their party well. 

I think both parties do that, no?

Makes no sense to me either. 

We are 46 days into the year:

Trump has been impeached and acquitted. And is fully using the Justice Department to re-write history and exact revenge on his “enemies”.

The Democrats, in response, are poised to nominate a (declared on video) Soviet-loving, conscientious objector, 78 year old, self-described Socialist. 

Something something Nigerian “sock puppet” something Buttigieg disproven conspiracy theory Lis Smith something.

Coronavirus, the worst flu season in a decade.

Richard Dawkins is trending because he thinks what we should all be talking about right now is eugenics (and how it would totes for real work).

... 

Last edited by winetarelli
winetarelli posted:

We are 46 days into the year:

Trump has been impeached and acquitted. And is fully using the Justice Department to re-write history and exact revenge on his “enemies”.

The Democrats, in response, are poised to nominate a (declared on video) Soviet-loving, conscientious objector, 78 year old, self-described Socialist. 

Something something Nigerian “sock puppet” something Buttigieg disproven conspiracy theory Lis Smith something.

Coronavirus, the worst flu season in a decade.

Richard Dawkins is trending because he thinks what we should all be talking about right now is eugenics (and how it would totes for real work).

... 

Well ,that was uplifting.     It's way too early to be pessimistic.  Let's see where things are in March, and take a deep breath until then.

PH

purplehaze posted:
winetarelli posted:

We are 46 days into the year:

Trump has been impeached and acquitted. And is fully using the Justice Department to re-write history and exact revenge on his “enemies”.

The Democrats, in response, are poised to nominate a (declared on video) Soviet-loving, conscientious objector, 78 year old, self-described Socialist. 

Something something Nigerian “sock puppet” something Buttigieg disproven conspiracy theory Lis Smith something.

Coronavirus, the worst flu season in a decade.

Richard Dawkins is trending because he thinks what we should all be talking about right now is eugenics (and how it would totes for real work).

... 

Well ,that was uplifting.     It's way too early to be pessimistic.  Let's see where things are in March, and take a deep breath until then.

PH

Exactly! 

winetarelli posted:

We are 46 days into the year:

Trump has been impeached and acquitted. And is fully using the Justice Department to re-write history and exact revenge on his “enemies”.

The Democrats, in response, are poised to nominate a (declared on video) Soviet-loving, conscientious objector, 78 year old, self-described Socialist. 

Something something Nigerian “sock puppet” something Buttigieg disproven conspiracy theory Lis Smith something.

Coronavirus, the worst flu season in a decade.

Richard Dawkins is trending because he thinks what we should all be talking about right now is eugenics (and how it would totes for real work).

... 

Bernie Saunders is considered a whatever socialist or communist in America only. In the rest of the western world he’d be center left given the ideas he espouses. And given that he is not a corporate shill like most of the favourites the democratic machinery is forcing on voters, he is the only one who can appeal to the masses of angry Trump voters who unfortunately will decide the next election.

mimik posted:
winetarelli posted:

We are 46 days into the year:

Trump has been impeached and acquitted. And is fully using the Justice Department to re-write history and exact revenge on his “enemies”.

The Democrats, in response, are poised to nominate a (declared on video) Soviet-loving, conscientious objector, 78 year old, self-described Socialist. 

Something something Nigerian “sock puppet” something Buttigieg disproven conspiracy theory Lis Smith something.

Coronavirus, the worst flu season in a decade.

Richard Dawkins is trending because he thinks what we should all be talking about right now is eugenics (and how it would totes for real work).

... 

Bernie Saunders is considered a whatever socialist or communist in America only. In the rest of the western world he’d be center left given the ideas he espouses. And given that he is not a corporate shill like most of the favourites the democratic machinery is forcing on voters, he is the only one who can appeal to the masses of angry Trump voters who unfortunately will decide the next election.

Gotta disagree with some of this, Mim. Bernie has no chance against Trump, if only because doubling the debt that Trump is already growing by leaps and bounds disqualifies him. Not that Congress would let him do much of his program. Including most Democrats, mercifully.  And he calls himself a socialist. 

bman posted:
mimik posted:
winetarelli posted:

We are 46 days into the year:

Trump has been impeached and acquitted. And is fully using the Justice Department to re-write history and exact revenge on his “enemies”.

The Democrats, in response, are poised to nominate a (declared on video) Soviet-loving, conscientious objector, 78 year old, self-described Socialist. 

Something something Nigerian “sock puppet” something Buttigieg disproven conspiracy theory Lis Smith something.

Coronavirus, the worst flu season in a decade.

Richard Dawkins is trending because he thinks what we should all be talking about right now is eugenics (and how it would totes for real work).

... 

Bernie Saunders is considered a whatever socialist or communist in America only. In the rest of the western world he’d be center left given the ideas he espouses. And given that he is not a corporate shill like most of the favourites the democratic machinery is forcing on voters, he is the only one who can appeal to the masses of angry Trump voters who unfortunately will decide the next election.

Gotta disagree with some of this, Mim. Bernie has no chance against Trump, if only because doubling the debt that Trump is already growing by leaps and bounds disqualifies him. Not that Congress would let him do much of his program. Including most Democrats, mercifully.  And he calls himself a socialist. 

He honeymooned in the Soviet Union and has supported Castro and Venezuela.  

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