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thistlintom posted:

Happy Thanksgiving.  A good day to avoid politics

Amen. Or, at least, to speak about things in terms of values. 

But, I am lucky. As far as the eye can see everyone I’m related to or friends with irl falls in the spectrum of moderate “Never Trump Republican” (in the vein of Tom Nichols) to tentative Warren supporter. And pretty much everyone is an Obama Democrat. So we can always talk politics without too much rancor. 

Last edited by winetarelli
The Old Man posted:
thistlintom posted:

Had a great day with food, wine and friends for Thanksgiving and no discussions around politics or government!  Very refreshing.

I'm so happy for you. Now back to defending the racist, bigot, sexist, know-nothing demagogue  in the White House.

  Our Thanksgiving isn’t until tonight so haven’t faced this issue. Funny though, our house will be filled with all republicans except one of our daughters. This said, we ALL agree Trump is a despicable piece of shit. 

Im disappointed there aren’t better college games on today. 😠

wineart 2 posted:
The Old Man posted:
thistlintom posted:

Had a great day with food, wine and friends for Thanksgiving and no discussions around politics or government!  Very refreshing.

I'm so happy for you. Now back to defending the racist, bigot, sexist, know-nothing demagogue  in the White House.

Is TT a defender? 

"Recent polls show African American support for Trump at 35%" His source--a  year old right wing website using a Rasmussen poll. "An analysis by Nate Silver on FiveThirtyEight ranked Rasmussen 20th out of 23 pollsters for accuracy in the 2012 elections with an average error of 4.2 points." They don't do any better today in other studies I found.

"Democrats are making a mockery of the impeachment process. Instead of following protocol from previous impeachment processes..."

"I agree that there is a strong question with the integrity of the prosecutor. However, the issue regarding the investigation into Burisma is not totally clear and was reported by the public news. And it is probably enough for Trump to have an issue with, whether it is truly valid or not." Huh?

"According to Trump, he had been withholding money to Ukraine because of concerns of corruption and inappropriate dealings within the Ukrainian government. Anyone that has followed their actions would have to agree this is a concern." Trump, the big corruption fighter.

"Y'all need another hobby, obviously wine is not enough to keep you from obsessing about Trump..." Yes, stop obsessing about his non-stop attacks on our democracy--drink more wine.

Last edited by The Old Man
wineart 2 posted:

Talk about tough tickets ( good seats) to get! I’m looking into tickets for the February concert/ tribute Clapton is putting on in London for Ginger Baker. I would expect Winwood to be there as well.

Damn... 

I didn’t hear about this. Hopefully it will be recorded. I wonder who will play drums for it. Kina hard when you’re memorializing the best. (And so many of the second-bests are also no longer with us.)  But I would guess at Charlie Watts will be amongst them. 

wineart 2 posted:
The Old Man posted:
thistlintom posted:

Had a great day with food, wine and friends for Thanksgiving and no discussions around politics or government!  Very refreshing.

I'm so happy for you. Now back to defending the racist, bigot, sexist, know-nothing demagogue  in the White House.

  Our Thanksgiving isn’t until tonight so haven’t faced this issue. Funny though, our house will be filled with all republicans except one of our daughters. This said, we ALL agree Trump is a despicable piece of shit. 

Im disappointed there aren’t better college games on today. 😠

I also must say our family is blessed with a somewhat similar situation. (But we’re all Democrats.)  Even including the extended family, including by marriage, every single person I’m related to whose viewpoint I know is either supporting Biden or Buttigieg.  (Though many of us agree Bennet, Klobuchar, or Bullock would be good, too.)  In fact, we’re all in such lock-step that even though no one supports him for President, we all want Yang to be a chief domestic advisor.

Well... the husband of my second-cousin is suspect. Very quiet. But apart from him, we’re good to go. 

This list is simply jaw dropping.  It’s been pulled from Phil Hendrie’s Facebook page, edited to remove some language which doesn’t add to the argument.

- The GDP has never hit 3.0, let along 4.0 in a calendar year under Trump, which is the measure. Never. The highest in a calendar year for Trump has been 2.9. Month to month is not the measure nor is month, year to year. If it were, check Obama who’s been well above a 4 as well.

- Tax reform has added 2 trillion to the national debt, and inflated the deficit to 1 trillion a year. It has NOT paid for itself.

- Job creation and unemployment has been trending positively since well before Trump, going back to Obama. A ten year trend verifiable by BLR statistics and that includes black unemployment.

- Trump makes money off of his golf resorts and hotels in a shameless profiting from his position and there is no proof at all that he donates his salary to “charity.” In fact, if he’s indeed a billionaire, so what? Two other presidents have done the same.

- The Obamacare penalty was applied if people did not have adequate coverage because inadequate coverage means the rest of us have to pay through taxes and higher premiums, the very thing national healthcare was created to prevent.

- The cost of those tariffs has been passed on to American consumers, not to mention it’s put farmers on welfare. There’s been no financial gain. Just Trump lying. Farmers are being subsidized by American taxpayers to make up for their lost business because of this China disaster.

- No new deal has been signed with China, just cosmetic press releases, no new deal with Mexico and today North Korea is laughing at Trump, telling him to get lost unless he’s serious.

- Appointed two seemingly conservative judges who none the less are charged with interpreting the Constitution. If they go against prevailing conservative ignorance they’ll be slandered as activist judges.

- National debt stands at 24 trillion, 2 trillion added by Trump, as previously mentioned. Looking at national debt over a small period like 3 mos is a Trump social media trick as the debt fluctuates in incremental stages. Trump seizes on this and his base falls for it.

- Iran is developing nuclear weapons as we speak and are unconcerned with and unafraid of Donald Trump. They know Trump to be a paper tiger and so do most Americans.

- American hostages have returned sporadically throughout the decades regardless of who is President.

- Trump has praised the murderer of Otto Warmbier, Kim of North Korea and has openly sided with him when he claims ignorance of Warmbier murder.

- Choice when it comes to insurance means that if people have chosen inadequate coverage the rest of us wind up paying.

- Trump has insulted and slandered any member of the military that has opposed him. Trump has insulted and slandered a Gold Star Family. Trump has insulted and slandered law enforcement and has demanded personal loyalty, violating his oath of office. Trump is a coward who dodged the draft with a phony medical report.

- The Inspector General report shows that the FBI properly investigated Russian interference in 2016, including surveillance of campaigns to PROTECT against interference.

- Trump’s administration has obstructed justice, not answered subpoenas, foot dragged the process through lawyers and courtrooms, not presented witnesses with supposed first hand knowledge of his activities/corruption.

- Trump has murdered children with his zero tolerance at the border. In fact he fabricated the border emergency, as attested to by the military’s own assessment.

- Trump has openly called for violence against the whistleblower, a legally protected status.

- Even Fox News has called his administration out on its criminality.

- Trump’s allowed Turkey to roll over top of Kurd resistance and has handed over an entire military base to the Russians.

- Paris climate agreement is still in force.

- No new deal yet with Canada or Mexico.

- No new NAFTA signed yet.

- President Donald Trump has not extracted any concessions of consequence from the Chinese. Again, farmers are on welfare.

- Manufacturing is contracting, not growing. Economic growth began under Obama and shows signs of stalling under Trump. Trump lied when he said he’d bring back coal for instance. Hasn’t happened.

- No USMCA has been passed and all the numbers attributed to it are pure Trump spin.

- Donald Trump is currently being impeached. He’s accused of trading American military hardware for dirt on a political opponent. Testimony has been damning, according to Ken Starr.

- Unemployment and job growth numbers are again a continuation of Obama era trends. In fact job creation numbers have been up and down over the last 12 months.

- Trump’s photo-ops with North Korea’s Kim have done nothing in furtherance of a deal. No indication at all that North Korea will give up nukes.

- Obama killed Bin Laden.

- Unemployment rate among African Americans has been dropping since Obama.

ProSys posted:

This list is simply jaw dropping.  It’s been pulled from Phil Hendrie’s Facebook page, edited to remove some language which doesn’t add to the argument.

- The GDP has never hit 3.0, let along 4.0 in a calendar year under Trump, which is the measure. Never. The highest in a calendar year for Trump has been 2.9. Month to month is not the measure nor is month, year to year. If it were, check Obama who’s been well above a 4 as well.

- Tax reform has added 2 trillion to the national debt, and inflated the deficit to 1 trillion a year. It has NOT paid for itself.

- Job creation and unemployment has been trending positively since well before Trump, going back to Obama. A ten year trend verifiable by BLR statistics and that includes black unemployment.

- Trump makes money off of his golf resorts and hotels in a shameless profiting from his position and there is no proof at all that he donates his salary to “charity.” In fact, if he’s indeed a billionaire, so what? Two other presidents have done the same.

- The Obamacare penalty was applied if people did not have adequate coverage because inadequate coverage means the rest of us have to pay through taxes and higher premiums, the very thing national healthcare was created to prevent.

- The cost of those tariffs has been passed on to American consumers, not to mention it’s put farmers on welfare. There’s been no financial gain. Just Trump lying. Farmers are being subsidized by American taxpayers to make up for their lost business because of this China disaster.

- No new deal has been signed with China, just cosmetic press releases, no new deal with Mexico and today North Korea is laughing at Trump, telling him to get lost unless he’s serious.

- Appointed two seemingly conservative judges who none the less are charged with interpreting the Constitution. If they go against prevailing conservative ignorance they’ll be slandered as activist judges.

- National debt stands at 24 trillion, 2 trillion added by Trump, as previously mentioned. Looking at national debt over a small period like 3 mos is a Trump social media trick as the debt fluctuates in incremental stages. Trump seizes on this and his base falls for it.

- Iran is developing nuclear weapons as we speak and are unconcerned with and unafraid of Donald Trump. They know Trump to be a paper tiger and so do most Americans.

- American hostages have returned sporadically throughout the decades regardless of who is President.

- Trump has praised the murderer of Otto Warmbier, Kim of North Korea and has openly sided with him when he claims ignorance of Warmbier murder.

- Choice when it comes to insurance means that if people have chosen inadequate coverage the rest of us wind up paying.

- Trump has insulted and slandered any member of the military that has opposed him. Trump has insulted and slandered a Gold Star Family. Trump has insulted and slandered law enforcement and has demanded personal loyalty, violating his oath of office. Trump is a coward who dodged the draft with a phony medical report.

- The Inspector General report shows that the FBI properly investigated Russian interference in 2016, including surveillance of campaigns to PROTECT against interference.

- Trump’s administration has obstructed justice, not answered subpoenas, foot dragged the process through lawyers and courtrooms, not presented witnesses with supposed first hand knowledge of his activities/corruption.

- Trump has murdered children with his zero tolerance at the border. In fact he fabricated the border emergency, as attested to by the military’s own assessment.

- Trump has openly called for violence against the whistleblower, a legally protected status.

- Even Fox News has called his administration out on its criminality.

- Trump’s allowed Turkey to roll over top of Kurd resistance and has handed over an entire military base to the Russians.

- Paris climate agreement is still in force.

- No new deal yet with Canada or Mexico.

- No new NAFTA signed yet.

- President Donald Trump has not extracted any concessions of consequence from the Chinese. Again, farmers are on welfare.

- Manufacturing is contracting, not growing. Economic growth began under Obama and shows signs of stalling under Trump. Trump lied when he said he’d bring back coal for instance. Hasn’t happened.

- No USMCA has been passed and all the numbers attributed to it are pure Trump spin.

- Donald Trump is currently being impeached. He’s accused of trading American military hardware for dirt on a political opponent. Testimony has been damning, according to Ken Starr.

- Unemployment and job growth numbers are again a continuation of Obama era trends. In fact job creation numbers have been up and down over the last 12 months.

- Trump’s photo-ops with North Korea’s Kim have done nothing in furtherance of a deal. No indication at all that North Korea will give up nukes.

- Obama killed Bin Laden.

- Unemployment rate among African Americans has been dropping since Obama.l

Let’s not over look his criminal activities. Just to name a few; Trump had a Ponzi scheme university, was taken to court and the Ponzi was closed and Trump paid restitution. Trump ran a fraudulent “ charity” that was ordered to be shutdown due to fraud, he can never apply for a charitable license again due to fraud and fines are still pending. This plus our conman in office is listed as an unindicted co-conspirator in a federal crime that his personal attorney is already serving time for. 

Farming bankruptcies up 24% since Trump’s dumbass trade wars. American taxpayers bailout now twice as big as the auto industry was. 

Who was the village idiot that once said, trade wars are good.... trade wars are easy to win?  Clearly the market hears China has the upper hand in negotiations with Trump in office. Down 450 and counting as China watches in an election year. 

irwin posted:
winetarelli posted:

I swear to fucking G-d. If Champagne doubles in price, I’m going to lose what few marbles I have remaining. 

Interesting that you hyphenate G-d, but spell out the preceding word in its entirety.

I am going to use this news to buy some more Champagne.  Of course, I use almost any news to do that.

Almost all people I know of the Jewish faith never spell out God, ever. 

You? 

Last edited by wine+art
wineart 2 posted:
irwin posted:
winetarelli posted:

I swear to fucking G-d. If Champagne doubles in price, I’m going to lose what few marbles I have remaining. 

Interesting that you hyphenate G-d, but spell out the preceding word in its entirety.

I am going to use this news to buy some more Champagne.  Of course, I use almost any news to do that.

Almost all people I know of the Jewish faith never spell out God, ever. 

You? 

I do - there is no reason not to as the English word has no relation whatsoever to the Hebrew so I am familiar with the practice but don't really get why people do that  (and I spell it out in Hebrew also in the rare instance I need to write it down)

Headline in today's Sacramento Bee:

" Gavin Newsom heads to Iowa to Iowa to boost Kamala Harris' presidential campaign"

News flash: "Kamala Harris ending her presidential bid:

Good - Newsom can save taxpayer money by not flying, and now maybe both of them can concentrate on fixing this state's huge problems, which they were elected to do and have basically ignored

Yeah. It isn’t like I don’t say the word or have a problem when other people spell it out. I grew up in a household where cursing wasn’t really a big deal. I’m Reform; I don’t keep kosher or attend synagogue beyond Kol Nidre (the evening service of Yom Kippur).  So, I literally go once a year — if that. It is quite difficult to describe, but not spelling it out is something that just feels right and respectful whereas words about sex and bodily functions are just silly to me.   

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