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thistlintom posted:

According to Trump, he had been withholding money to Ukraine because of concerns of corruption and inappropriate dealings within the Ukrainian government.  Anyone that has followed their actions would have to agree this is a concern.  It should be noted that the government did not know of the withholding of aid until a month after the conversation with the Ukrainian president.

The problem with this take is that the Pentagon had already cleared the aid to be provided to the Ukraine two months prior:

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25...-ukraine-over-corrup

patespo1 posted:
purplehaze posted:

Also, his last post mentioning curry was over 7 years ago.  Somehow, based on my recollections of his taste in food and wine, goat curry and Shiraz aren't coming up as high-probability.  

PH

If he had said Ribeye and Salad, with one of his many well-aged Bordeaux, I would be more inclined to agree with Bomba. 

“With a red to be determined”

thistlintom posted:

 The prosecutor that was fired by Ukraine has signed an affidavit that he was fired because he was looking into the issue of Hunter's involvement with Burisma.

having Joe Biden withholding aid if a prosecutor involved in investigating Burisma makes things appear suspicious.  

 

 

I very much appreciate your calm, rational review of the facts as you see them, tom, but I have an issue with the lack of context you provided in the comments above, though perhaps you were unaware of that context.

In the first example above, the prosecutor in question was considered to be corrupt by every or almost every (I haven't checked each one) EU and other Western nation.  They had been calling for him to be fired for months or perhaps years because he was providing cover for the previous President and his cronies, as I understand it.  If he signed that affidavit it is irrelevant as his credibility is zero.  Biden was merely one of dozens of leaders calling for his removal.

Re your second point, in addition to the point above, I'm not sure a VP has the power to withhold aid to another country, especially once Congress has approved that aid.  Trump, on the other hand, had that power and used it for no apparent public policy reason.

If any of my facts above are incorrect, please let me know.  And again, thanks for making a positive contribution to the discussion.  It's always more fun to have discussions on matters on which I'm passionate when someone taking the other side or at least taking a view not 100% aligned with mine is participating! 

 

irwin posted:

First, I emailed Board-O and he said that he hasn't posted since around March due to his opinion that the boards are "dead" and due to a brouhaha with Rbt. Taylor.  He thought it was funny that someone thought he was posting under an alias to an alias.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, he has posted since March, he attacked me in a post on this thread on August 5 but deleted it shortly afterwards.  But his post appeared in a notification in my inbox so I saw it.  

thistlintom posted:

According to Trump, he had been withholding money to Ukraine because of concerns of corruption and inappropriate dealings within the Ukrainian government. 

 

Your kidding right? This is not satire? You're actually are trying to have us buy into, and swallow, this nonsense that the former Republican party is shoveling? The demagogue in chief rooting out corruption? Ha ha. He let Stormy Daniels suck his dick because he was investigating the tragic life of porn stars and he was doing research. He also sexually harassed, and assaulted, 15 to 20 women to get to the bottom of the harm of male chauvinism. What a knight in shining armor! No wonder you admire him so.

bman posted:
thistlintom posted:

 The prosecutor that was fired by Ukraine has signed an affidavit that he was fired because he was looking into the issue of Hunter's involvement with Burisma.

having Joe Biden withholding aid if a prosecutor involved in investigating Burisma makes things appear suspicious.  

 

 

I very much appreciate your calm, rational review of the facts as you see them, tom, but I have an issue with the lack of context you provided in the comments above, though perhaps you were unaware of that context.

In the first example above, the prosecutor in question was considered to be corrupt by every or almost every (I haven't checked each one) EU and other Western nation.  They had been calling for him to be fired for months or perhaps years because he was providing cover for the previous President and his cronies, as I understand it.  If he signed that affidavit it is irrelevant as his credibility is zero.  Biden was merely one of dozens of leaders calling for his removal.

Re your second point, in addition to the point above, I'm not sure a VP has the power to withhold aid to another country, especially once Congress has approved that aid.  Trump, on the other hand, had that power and used it for no apparent public policy reason.

If any of my facts above are incorrect, please let me know.  And again, thanks for making a positive contribution to the discussion.  It's always more fun to have discussions on matters on which I'm passionate when someone taking the other side or at least taking a view not 100% aligned with mine is participating! 

 

I agree that there is a strong question with the integrity of the prosecutor.  However, the issue regarding the investigation into Burisma is not totally clear and was reported by the public news.  And it is probably enough for Trump to have an issue with, whether it is truly valid or not.

Whether Biden had the authority, he told the president he would withdraw the aid if the prosecutor wasn't fired before he left that day.  I doubt the Ukrainians thought his threat was invalid. Given that Biden threatened aid, he was more than just one of group of leaders calling for his dismissal. 

Thanks for your calm response.

The Old Man posted:
thistlintom posted:

According to Trump, he had been withholding money to Ukraine because of concerns of corruption and inappropriate dealings within the Ukrainian government. 

 

Your kidding right? This is not satire? You're actually are trying to have us buy into, and swallow, this nonsense that the former Republican party is shoveling? The demagogue in chief rooting out corruption? Ha ha. He let Stormy Daniels suck his dick because he was investigating the tragic life of porn stars and he was doing research. He also sexually harassed, and assaulted, 15 to 20 women to get to the bottom of the harm of male chauvinism. What a knight in shining armor! No wonder you admire him so.

Thanks for confirming my reason for not posting political issues.

Thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts down, thistlintom.  Although I disagree with much of your post, at least it was calmly stated.  Many of us fall victim to preconceived notions or information we've read/heard that is skewed or downright incorrect.

bman's statement on the former Ukrainian prosecutor is correct.  Biden was one of many Western government representatives calling for his ouster, specifically because he was stonewalling corruption prosecutions.

We will have to agree to disagree on your interpretation of trump's request that Zelensky look into Biden and Biden's son as "not wise and inappropriate."  He flat out asked the president of another country to dig up dirt on his chief political rival.  If such "dirt" existed and was conveyed to the president, it would certainly be a "thing of value" related to a Federal election.  It's not unwise or inappropriate.  It's illegal.  

That said, we have some of the preeminent law enforcement groups in the world right here in the good old USA.  If anyone has cause to believe that either Biden committed some wrongdoing in, or related to Ukraine, the investigation should be US based, with US law enforcement requesting assistance from the Ukraine government.  Certainly not his private "attorney," and most definitely not the Attorney General of the United States.

I will agree with you that Hunter Biden's relationship with Burisma, given his relative lack of experience and knowledge, is a very bad look.  Criminal?  Can't say, but again we have law enforcement people right here who can look into it with Ukrainian assistance if needed.  That said, the Ukrainians have repeatedly said that there was zero evidence that either Biden had committed any possible violation of Ukrainian law.

Finally.  Impeachment.  I was not for it, right until the Zelensky phone call was released.  It was the final straw for the Dems, and for them not to act would have been a de facto go-ahead to trump to continue asking foreign nations to interfere in our internal affairs and elections.  

PH

 

Last edited by purplehaze
billhike posted:

PH, you obviously did a great job raising your daughter, and based on the exchange described above she is passing that on.

Agree on use of the word, but I’m very comfortable with it in this situation. Some will lazily assume that means something about my political leanings or ideology. Oh well.

Total accident.  My parenting skills suck.  Too old school for these days...

PH

thistlintom posted:
The Old Man posted:
thistlintom posted:

According to Trump, he had been withholding money to Ukraine because of concerns of corruption and inappropriate dealings within the Ukrainian government. 

 

Your kidding right? This is not satire? You're actually are trying to have us buy into, and swallow, this nonsense that the former Republican party is shoveling? The demagogue in chief rooting out corruption? Ha ha. He let Stormy Daniels suck his dick because he was investigating the tragic life of porn stars and he was doing research. He also sexually harassed, and assaulted, 15 to 20 women to get to the bottom of the harm of male chauvinism. What a knight in shining armor! No wonder you admire him so.

Thanks for confirming my reason for not posting political issues.

If you think you're not going to get called out for defending the racist, bigot, sexist, anti-American, demagogue that occupies the WH you're right. You will.

With Nixon there was a cancer on the presidency. With Trump there is a cancer to our democracy in the White House.

Last edited by The Old Man
bman posted:
irwin posted:

First, I emailed Board-O and he said that he hasn't posted since around March due to his opinion that the boards are "dead" and due to a brouhaha with Rbt. Taylor.  He thought it was funny that someone thought he was posting under an alias to an alias.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, he has posted since March, he attacked me in a post on this thread on August 5 but deleted it shortly afterwards.  But his post appeared in a notification in my inbox so I saw it.  

Yup they can deny but it won't change the truth. He's lying to himself as much as to them

bomba503 posted:
bman posted:
irwin posted:

First, I emailed Board-O and he said that he hasn't posted since around March due to his opinion that the boards are "dead" and due to a brouhaha with Rbt. Taylor.  He thought it was funny that someone thought he was posting under an alias to an alias.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, he has posted since March, he attacked me in a post on this thread on August 5 but deleted it shortly afterwards.  But his post appeared in a notification in my inbox so I saw it.  

Yup they can deny but it won't change the truth. He's lying to himself as much as to them

likewise, I was also attacked, I saw in that in the notifications

flwino posted:
bomba503 posted:
bman posted:
irwin posted:

First, I emailed Board-O and he said that he hasn't posted since around March due to his opinion that the boards are "dead" and due to a brouhaha with Rbt. Taylor.  He thought it was funny that someone thought he was posting under an alias to an alias.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, he has posted since March, he attacked me in a post on this thread on August 5 but deleted it shortly afterwards.  But his post appeared in a notification in my inbox so I saw it.  

Yup they can deny but it won't change the truth. He's lying to himself as much as to them

likewise, I was also attacked, I saw in that in the notifications

A wine ninja!  

billhike posted:

Please, no.

The question is, if elected President, would she implement some of the out-there stuff she is proposing to win the nomination or is she saying that just to win the nomination?  Trump has actually done most of what he promised, and worse, but given the primary system which pretty much requires candidates for the nomination to appeal to the far left and right of their respective parties, most successful candidate are much more moderate in what they actually do.  

If Biden and Bernie were both to fade after the first primaries and Klobuchar was still around, I bet she'd have a shot, ditto Harris and Booker, though the latter two seem to be trying to out-promise Warren when it comes to questionable policies.

Maybe the Bernie illness (age 78) and the ages of the other candidates who are 70+ (Biden, Warren & Trump) will cause voters to be concerned about electing a person of that age to this stressful office.  Maybe.

In Maryland, the Constitution says that judges ( at all levels) must retire at age 70. This is the so called "age of constitutional senility".  Well, being a judge is certainly mentally taxing, but not all that demanding physically.  Being President is pretty demanding physically and mentally.

Last edited by irwin
irwin posted:

Maybe the Bernie illness (age 78) and the ages of the other candidates who are 70+ (Biden, Warren & Trump) will cause voters to be concerned about electing a person of that age to this stressful office.  Maybe.

In Maryland, the Constitution says that judges ( at all levels) must retire at age 70. This is the so called "age of constitutional senility".  Well, being a judge is certainly mentally taxing, but not all that demanding physically.  Being President is pretty demanding physically and mentally.

Trump is over 70!!!   About the same as his IQ. 

irwin posted:

Maybe the Bernie illness (age 78) and the ages of the other candidates who are 70+ (Biden, Warren & Trump) will cause voters to be concerned about electing a person of that age to this stressful office.  Maybe.

I hear you, irwin.  Of all the geezers out there, I think Warren is the healthiest and most mentally acute.  Unfortunately, she's just more than a wee bit left of me and most of America.  I think that if Biden is seriously injured by the latest news, and if Bernie is out (I think he is done, either out by a personal decision or public concern at this point) that the remaining Dems will be quickly whittled down to Warren, Harris and Buttigieg.  I'd vote for any of them when the time comes. Hell, I'd vote for you in a heartbeat before casting a vote for any R in 2020.  

PH

The Old Man posted:

I guess I'm not understanding why the lies being told, about Biden, by the p-grabber in chief and his enablers and sycophants have any significance.

Unfortunately, it's because the "average" American voter won't take the time to drill down below the headlines to investigate the truth.  This actually is one reason why we have an idiot in our White House now.

PH

Last edited by purplehaze

Besides his other crimes against all that is decent and good, The Orange Menace is now tweeting clips from Nickelback music videos (full disclosure:  I like some Nickelback tunes, and not just because we're both Canadian!). 

And of course the point he seems to be trying to make is not made, it just sows more confusion, which is probably actually his point

(not sure this link is gonna work)

He watches Nickelback videos??!!

irwin posted:
purplehaze posted:

97° on my outdoor thermometer today. 

PH

98 at BWI airport. Hottest October 2 since they started keeping records in 1872 (I know there was no airport there!).

Nonsense.  Frederick Douglass was protecting the airport against the British with anti-tank missiles that were waiting to be loaded on planes to send to Ukraine.  Ask our president. He'll tell you the truth.  Trust me.

PH

purplehaze posted:
irwin posted:

Maybe the Bernie illness (age 78) and the ages of the other candidates who are 70+ (Biden, Warren & Trump) will cause voters to be concerned about electing a person of that age to this stressful office.  Maybe.

I hear you, irwin.  Of all the geezers out there, I think Warren is the healthiest and most mentally acute.  Unfortunately, she's just more than a wee bit left of me and most of America.  I think that if Biden is seriously injured by the latest news, and if Bernie is out (I think he is done, either out by a personal decision or public concern at this point) that the remaining Dems will be quickly whittled down to Warren, Harris and Buttigieg.  I'd vote for any of them when the time comes. Hell, I'd vote for you in a heartbeat before casting a vote for any R in 2020.  

PH

Vote for me? First, my wife would cancel your vote. Second, as you know, I'm bald. There has not been a bald person elected President since Eisenhower, and he ran against Stevenson, who was also bald, so one of them had to win.  (This is why Cory Booker and John Delaney are having problems). 

I would host a heck of a state dinner, though.  I wonder how many cheesecakes Gentleman Farmer would have to make.

irwin posted:
Vote for me? First, my wife would cancel your vote....
Heh.  The only way she could cancel my vote would be to vote for trump.  I don't know C very well, but I do know her well enough to know that that would never happen.  So...  Congratulations, Mr. President.  And by the way, I'll be bringing two dates to the inaugural dinner.  And we'll want to crash in the Lincoln bedroom.  And, yeah.... Krug, please.  Lots of Krug.  Thank you, sir.

 

PH

A seasoned British doctor lost his government job as a medical assessor after more than three decades because he refused to renounce his Christian belief that gender is determined at birth.

Dr. David Mackereth, 56, a National Health Service employee, was fired from his post at the Department for Work and Pensions in July because he would not use a transgender pronoun, saying he believes "gender is defined by biology and genetics" and the "Bible teaches us that God made humans male or female."

This week he lost his case before an Employment Tribunal in England, where the judge ruled his beliefs were "incompatible with human dignity."

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