irwin posted:It's our violent culture. Every house in Switzerland has a gun. Every house in Israel has a gun. Almost no gun crime in either place.
We have very little illiteracy in the US because we teach kids how to read. We have violence because we teach violence.
Nailed it, irwin. No one is born a neo-Nazi. It all starts at home.
PH
irwin posted:It's our violent culture. Every house in Switzerland has a gun. Every house in Israel has a gun. Almost no gun crime in either place.
This line is often used by anti-gun control advocates. However it's really apples and oranges:
From the Times of Israel: "Israelis must meet a detailed list of criteria to be allowed to own a firearm. They must ask the state for a license, are permitted only one gun at a time, and must even ask for permission to sell their gun. And the Firearms Licensing Department is no rubber stamp: Roughly 40 percent of requests are rejected.
Indeed, before even requesting a license, Israelis must meet minimum age requirements, be in good health and of sound mind, and have no criminal record, among other preconditions.
There’s more. Once they are granted the right to carry a gun, Israelis are limited to just 50 bullets in their possession at any given time. They must shoot or return old bullets before they can buy new ones, a process that can only take place at tightly regulated shooting ranges where each bullet’s sale is carefully registered. The types of guns permitted also depend on the reason for the license."
Switzerland, from Wikipedia:
Buying guns
In order to purchase most weapons, the purchaser must obtain a weapon acquisition permit (art. 8 WG/LArm). Swiss citizens and foreigners with a C permit over the age of 18 who are not under a curator nor identified as being a danger for themselves or others, and who don't have a criminal record with a conviction for a violent crime or of several convictions as long as they haven't been written out can request such a permit. Foreigners with citizenship to the following countries are explicitly excluded from the right to possess weapons: Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Macedonia, Turkey, Sri Lanka, Algeria and Albania.[note 1] The following information must be provided to the cantonal weapon bureau together with the weapon application form:
valid official identification or passport copy.
residence address.
criminal record copy not older than 3 months.
For each transfer of a weapon or an essential weapon component without weapons acquisition permit (art. 10 WG/LArm), a written contract must be concluded. Each Party shall keep them at least ten years. The contract must include the following information (art. 11 WG/LArm):
Family name, first name, birth date, residence address and signature of the person who sells the weapon or essential weapon component.
Family name, first name, birth date, residence address and signature of the person who purchases the weapon or an essential weapon component.
Kind of weapon, manufacturer or producer, label, caliber, weapon number, and date and place of transfer.
Type and number of the official identification of the person who acquires the weapon or the essential weapon component.
and an indication of the processing of personal data in connection with the contract in accordance with the privacy policy of the Federation or the cantons, if firearms are transmitted.
This information must be sent within 30 days to the cantonal weapon registration bureau, where the weapon holders are registered (art. 9 WG/LArm).
Some weapons do not need a weapon acquisition permit (art. 10 WG/LArm):
Single-shot and multi-barreled hunting rifles and replicas of single-shot muzzle loaders.
Hand bolt-action rifles, which are commonly used in off-duty and sporting gunnery recognized by the military law of 3 February 1952 and shooting clubs for hunting purposes in Switzerland.
Single-shot rabbit slayer.
Compressed air and CO2 weapons that develop a muzzle energy of at least 7.5 joules, or their appearance may be mistaken for real firearms.
Buying ammunition
Ready ammunition of the Swiss Army. Soldiers equipped with the Sig 550 assault rifle used to be issued 50 rounds of ammunition in a sealed can, to be opened only upon alert and for use while en route to join their unit. This practice was stopped in 2007.[13]
In order to purchase ammunition, the buyer must follow the same legal rules that apply when buying guns. The buyer must provide the following information to the seller (art. 15, 16 WG/LArm; art. 24 WV/OArm):[2][1]
a passport or other valid official identification (the holder must be over 18 years of age) with valid address.
a copy of their criminal record not older than 3 months, or a weapons acquisition permit which isn't older than 2 years (art. 24 § 3 WV/OArm).
The seller must verify that the buyer is not psychiatrically disqualified nor identified as posing security problems (art. 8 § 2 WG/LArm).
Further, they must not be a citizen of the following countries (art. 12 WV/OArm): Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Macedonia, Turkey, Sri Lanka, Algeria and Albania).
A Swiss 100 gram black powder container.
The possession of the following ammunition is generally prohibited:
Armor-piercing bullets.
Ammunition with projectile containing an explosive or incendiary device.
Ammunition with one or more projectiles releasing substances which damage the health of people in the long run, particularly those mentioned in annex 2 of the WV/OArm.
Ammunition, missiles and missile launchers for military explosive.
Ammunition with projectiles for transmitting electric shocks.
Ammunition for handguns which may cause deformations."
In other words both countries have sensible control.
Not to mention the type of guns
Need to catch up on the news. So sorry about Toledo. The buffon doesn't even know what happened or care less.
Well, if yer busy playing golf on two hot days in a row, you typically will suffer from heat stroke.
g-man posted:Well, if yer busy playing golf on two hot days in a row, you typically will suffer from heat stroke.
What is the buffoon suffering from? Guess he can't get FOX in his golf cart. See the body count went up in El Paso. So sad. Spent many days on business in that city. Loved it.
g-man posted:
Was this posted to back up your apples to oranges comparison?
From the article, "The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns."
Nope, I gave the answer for the two countries you cited--very strict gun control laws. Also no country, that I know of, gives citizens access to the high level of fire power and magazine capacity that we do in the US.
From what I can see after a quick Google search, there are roughly 120 guns per 100 people in the US, compared to roughly 7 per 100 people in Israel and 28 per 100 in Switzerland.
Sure, culture may be an issue, and so is mental illness (in multiple cases, but not all). The disgusting political rhetoric that is now commonplace in the US plays a big role too.
But availability of and access to guns is THE biggest differentiator here, if we're comparing to other nations.
It's absolutely stunning to me that so many people, supposedly intelligent and competent, are so unable to implement any change that prevent these deaths of innocent US (and other) citizens. Or unwilling.
purplehaze posted:irwin posted:It's our violent culture. Every house in Switzerland has a gun. Every house in Israel has a gun. Almost no gun crime in either place.
We have very little illiteracy in the US because we teach kids how to read. We have violence because we teach violence.
Nailed it, irwin. No one is born a neo-Nazi. It all starts at home.
PH
True. But it gets a whole hell of a lot worse if they can simply stroll into their neighbourhood Walmart and buy guns and ammo.
shavez posted:From what I can see after a quick Google search, there are roughly 120 guns per 100 people in the US, compared to roughly 7 per 100 people in Israel and 28 per 100 in Switzerland.
Sure, culture may be an issue, and so is mental illness (in multiple cases, but not all). The disgusting political rhetoric that is now commonplace in the US plays a big role too.
But availability of and access to guns is THE biggest differentiator here, if we're comparing to other nations.
It's absolutely stunning to me that so many people, supposedly intelligent and competent, are so unable to implement any change that prevent these deaths of innocent US (and other) citizens. Or unwilling.
Well obviously countries with stricter gun control than the US, in other words every country, are going to have less guns in the public's hands. I'm making the case for gun control, Irwin was making it about our culture. To which I call BS.
The Old Man posted:shavez posted:From what I can see after a quick Google search, there are roughly 120 guns per 100 people in the US, compared to roughly 7 per 100 people in Israel and 28 per 100 in Switzerland.
Sure, culture may be an issue, and so is mental illness (in multiple cases, but not all). The disgusting political rhetoric that is now commonplace in the US plays a big role too.
But availability of and access to guns is THE biggest differentiator here, if we're comparing to other nations.
It's absolutely stunning to me that so many people, supposedly intelligent and competent, are so unable to implement any change that prevent these deaths of innocent US (and other) citizens. Or unwilling.
Well obviously countries with stricter gun control than the US, in other words every country, are going to have less guns in the public's hands. I'm making the case for gun control, Irwin was making it about our culture. To which I call BS.
Irwin's post suggested that gun availability in Switzerland and Israel was somehow comparable to the US. Which is wrong. Anyone suggesting that the availability of and access to guns in the US is not at the very core of the issue is...well...missing the point, to put it mildly.
shavez posted:The Old Man posted:shavez posted:From what I can see after a quick Google search, there are roughly 120 guns per 100 people in the US, compared to roughly 7 per 100 people in Israel and 28 per 100 in Switzerland.
Sure, culture may be an issue, and so is mental illness (in multiple cases, but not all). The disgusting political rhetoric that is now commonplace in the US plays a big role too.
But availability of and access to guns is THE biggest differentiator here, if we're comparing to other nations.
It's absolutely stunning to me that so many people, supposedly intelligent and competent, are so unable to implement any change that prevent these deaths of innocent US (and other) citizens. Or unwilling.
Well obviously countries with stricter gun control than the US, in other words every country, are going to have less guns in the public's hands. I'm making the case for gun control, Irwin was making it about our culture. To which I call BS.
Irwin's post suggested that gun availability in Switzerland and Israel was somehow comparable to the US. Which is wrong. Anyone suggesting that the availability of and access to guns in the US is not at the very core of the issue is...well...missing the point, to put it mildly.
Exactly. And the difference is the gun laws of those countries. Lot easier starting there than trying to change America's culture.
Can't believe the speech they gave the hater in chief to read about how hate is the problem. No sense of irony.
shavez posted:purplehaze posted:irwin posted:It's our violent culture. Every house in Switzerland has a gun. Every house in Israel has a gun. Almost no gun crime in either place.
We have very little illiteracy in the US because we teach kids how to read. We have violence because we teach violence.
Nailed it, irwin. No one is born a neo-Nazi. It all starts at home.
PH
True. But it gets a whole hell of a lot worse if they can simply stroll into their neighbourhood Walmart and buy guns and ammo.
No argument from me. My concern is that even if we totally ended all weapon sales in the US today, there are 270 million firearms, including just shy of 2 million assault weapons. Without a profound cultural shift in our country, we are all at risk every day.
PH
Israel also has mandatory military service (except for the ultra-religious who managed to get themselves excepted) - which I would wager both increases the level of training and is more likely to weed out people with psychological issues who then find it harder to obtain weapons.
The Old Man posted:g-man posted:Was this posted to back up your apples to oranges comparison?
From the article, "The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns."
Nope, I gave the answer for the two countries you cited--very strict gun control laws. Also no country, that I know of, gives citizens access to the high level of fire power and magazine capacity that we do in the US.
You're replying to the wrong individual I believe?
Regardless, did you even read the article TOM?
purplehaze posted:shavez posted:purplehaze posted:irwin posted:It's our violent culture. Every house in Switzerland has a gun. Every house in Israel has a gun. Almost no gun crime in either place.
We have very little illiteracy in the US because we teach kids how to read. We have violence because we teach violence.
Nailed it, irwin. No one is born a neo-Nazi. It all starts at home.
PH
True. But it gets a whole hell of a lot worse if they can simply stroll into their neighbourhood Walmart and buy guns and ammo.
No argument from me. My concern is that even if we totally ended all weapon sales in the US today, there are 270 million firearms, including just shy of 2 million assault weapons. Without a profound cultural shift in our country, we are all at risk every day.
PH
Simply need to look at a few other countries in the world that had similar problems and solved it. Ie Australia.
The Old Man posted:Can't believe the speech they gave the hater in chief to read about how hate is the problem. No sense of irony.
As others have noted elsewhere, this speech was akin to watching a hostage video. Give him time. Trust me.
PH
g-man posted:The Old Man posted:g-man posted:Was this posted to back up your apples to oranges comparison?
From the article, "The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns."
Nope, I gave the answer for the two countries you cited--very strict gun control laws. Also no country, that I know of, gives citizens access to the high level of fire power and magazine capacity that we do in the US.
You're replying to the wrong individual I believe?
Regardless, did you even read the article TOM?
Yes. Wrong person. Yes I did read the article I even quoted from it.
I'm about 3 drinks away from needing a 4th.
Ha. The hospital patients in El Paso refused to see the orange racist so the White House had to have two previously released patients return so that there would be someone for him to see.😂
Now the White House staff is admitting the trip didn’t go as hoped, and hospital administrators saying the orange racist was completely devoid of empathy. No shit!
wineart 2 posted:Ha. The hospital patients in El Paso refused to see the orange racist so the White House had to have two previously released patients return so that there would be someone for him to see.😂
Now the White House staff is admitting the trip didn’t go as hoped, and hospital administrators saying the orange racist was completely devoid of empathy. No shit!
But, but but... he spoke so eloquently about the poor people of Toledo!
Of course, another geezer with aspirations for office (sorry bman, I know you like him) offered his sympathies to the people of Houston and Michigan.
New rule. If you're 71 or older, no presidency for you! I added a year, because I'm actually kinda digging Elizabeth Warren lately. And I'd LOVE to see her on a debate stage with the dotard.
PH
OMG, “we choose truth over facts”. I can’t believe he said that. Oh, wait that was Biden, not Trump? Never mind.
thistlintom posted:OMG, “we choose truth over facts”. I can’t believe he said that. Oh, wait that was Biden, not Trump? Never mind.
Certainly on par with the classlessness and stupidity of bragging about crowd sizes when visiting shooting victims.
thistlintom posted:OMG, “we choose truth over facts”. I can’t believe he said that. Oh, wait that was Biden, not Trump? Never mind.
Certainly an awkward turn of phrase, unless you consider that truth is immutable. Apparently "facts," at least among a certain population, can have "alternatives."
PH
thistlintom posted:OMG, “we choose truth over facts”. I can’t believe he said that. Oh, wait that was Biden, not Trump? Never mind.
Certainly a dumb thing to say, but hardly as bad as being the first openly racist president since Andrew Jackson. Not to mention being a bigot, a sexist, a mocker of the disabled, a mocker of POW's ("I like people who weren't captured, OK?"), an admitter of sexual assault, a know-nothing (didn't even know what the nuclear triad is), an instigator of violence and a demagogue.
I think I'll give Biden a pass on this one.
billhike posted:thistlintom posted:OMG, “we choose truth over facts”. I can’t believe he said that. Oh, wait that was Biden, not Trump? Never mind.
Certainly on par with the classlessness and stupidity of bragging about crowd sizes when visiting shooting victims.
Makes one want to vomit:
"An individual briefed on the matter confirmed to CNN's Jake Tapper a Washington Post report that not one of the eight patients still being treated at University Medical Center wanted to meet with the President so administrators brought back two patients who had already been discharged and who expressed a willingness to meet with him.
A hospital official familiar with the President's trip cautioned that some of those patients did not want to meet with anybody because of their conditions. The official went on to say that there was a general assessment that there was 'an absence of empathy' on Trump's part."
purplehaze posted:wineart 2 posted:Ha. The hospital patients in El Paso refused to see the orange racist so the White House had to have two previously released patients return so that there would be someone for him to see.😂
Now the White House staff is admitting the trip didn’t go as hoped, and hospital administrators saying the orange racist was completely devoid of empathy. No shit!
But, but but... he spoke so eloquently about the poor people of Toledo!
Of course, another geezer with aspirations for office (sorry bman, I know you like him) offered his sympathies to the people of Houston and Michigan.
New rule. If you're 71 or older, no presidency for you! I added a year, because I'm actually kinda digging Elizabeth Warren lately. And I'd LOVE to see her on a debate stage with the dotard.
PH
I like whoever can most assuredly get Donnie Dickhead out of office. That seemed to be Biden but I agree he has lost much of his lustre. Still, he's miles ahead of DD by any positive measure (and miles behind on the negative ones!) and I suspect the hatchet job the Republicans would do on other leading candidates could neuter any electoral advantages they have - Warren more so than the others. So still hoping for a Biden/Harris ticket. For now.
Two grinning idiots, one holding an infant who has become an orphan because of a shooter who parrots the racist-in-chief's own words. A "president" who only a few months ago when he asked the crowd what to do with these "invaders" and someone shouted out "shoot them" grinned and said "you can only get away with in the Panhandle." Yuck, yuck.
Whether he has any responsibility for the increase in hate crimes in the last two and a half years (spoiler alert, he does) this is not how you comfort a grieving community. They are not all there for your photo op. They are not there to hear about your crowd size at a recent rally and they sure aren't there to hear your airing of grievances (for the bigot-in-chief everyday is Festivus.) A human pig.
TOM. You neglected to mention that this photograph made its way into the media because it was tweeted by Melania trump. Not the uncle (on the left). For just a little context, the uncle and the deceased father were trump supporters. But, holding an orphan with a beaming grin, and the moron-in-chief flashing a thumbs up sign given the circumstances is just another example of how tone-deaf and lacking in compassion this misbegotten family is.
PH
purplehaze posted:TOM. You neglected to mention that this photograph made its way into the media because it was tweeted by Melania trump. Not the uncle (on the left). For just a little context, the uncle and the deceased father were trump supporters. But, holding an orphan with a beaming grin, and the moron-in-chief flashing a thumbs up sign given the circumstances is just another example of how tone-deaf and lacking in compassion this misbegotten family is.
PH
Indeed. The racist First Family was clearly there to celebrate the deaths. Thus, all smiles and a big thumbs up for the now orphaned child. A celebration was in order.
Now, about the crowd size....
Add in the sniveling cowardly Republicans who seem to have forgotten what their party stands for. Or this is what it stood for all along and it was a slow growing cancer that festered into the Trumpublican Party.
Anthony Scaramucci, after defending the racist-in-chief again on Bill Maher's show on Friday, finally threw in the towel yesterday. He no longer supports the sick pig for reelection. Of course the man-baby immediately starting doing twit attacks against his now former friend.
Listen to the bells Napa, et el., it tolls for thee. Stop supporting a racist president.
The Old Man posted:Anthony Scaramucci, after defending the racist-in-chief again on Bill Maher's show on Friday, finally threw in the towel yesterday. He no longer supports the sick pig for reelection. Of course the man-baby immediately starting doing twit attacks against his now former friend.
Listen to the bells Napa, et el., it tolls for thee. Stop supporting a racist president.
Slick opportunist, the Mooch. He was a toxic POS when serving the orange bloviator. His opinion is meaningless to me. I would like to hear from Kelley, McGahn and Mattis. Soon.
PH
The Old Man posted:Anthony Scaramucci, after defending the racist-in-chief again on Bill Maher's show on Friday, finally threw in the towel yesterday. He no longer supports the sick pig for reelection. Of course the man-baby immediately starting doing twit attacks against his now former friend.
Listen to the bells Napa, et el., it tolls for thee. Stop supporting a racist president.
Oh Old Man...give it a rest. I said I was done on this topic.
napacat posted:The Old Man posted:Anthony Scaramucci, after defending the racist-in-chief again on Bill Maher's show on Friday, finally threw in the towel yesterday. He no longer supports the sick pig for reelection. Of course the man-baby immediately starting doing twit attacks against his now former friend.
Listen to the bells Napa, et el., it tolls for thee. Stop supporting a racist president.
Oh Old Man...give it a rest. I said I was done on this topic.
"This topic" as if we're discussing what car you're driving or what team you support.
Ding dong.
The Old Man posted:napacat posted:The Old Man posted:Anthony Scaramucci, after defending the racist-in-chief again on Bill Maher's show on Friday, finally threw in the towel yesterday. He no longer supports the sick pig for reelection. Of course the man-baby immediately starting doing twit attacks against his now former friend.
Listen to the bells Napa, et el., it tolls for thee. Stop supporting a racist president.
Oh Old Man...give it a rest. I said I was done on this "topic".
"This topic" as if we're discussing what car you're driving or what team you support.
Ding dong.
What an Old, Obnoxious, Arrogant and Self-righteous Turd you are. I replied with your quote, to your quote and about the only topic you are stuck on at present.
I added quotation marks around the word topic above. Maybe you will approve. I am anxiously awaiting and hoping you will. It will mean the world to me Old Man.
Thought today was going great.
napacat posted:The Old Man posted:napacat posted:The Old Man posted:Anthony Scaramucci, after defending the racist-in-chief again on Bill Maher's show on Friday, finally threw in the towel yesterday. He no longer supports the sick pig for reelection. Of course the man-baby immediately starting doing twit attacks against his now former friend.
Listen to the bells Napa, et el., it tolls for thee. Stop supporting a racist president.
Oh Old Man...give it a rest. I said I was done on this "topic".
"This topic" as if we're discussing what car you're driving or what team you support.
Ding dong.
What an Old, Obnoxious, Arrogant and Self-righteous Turd you are. I replied with your quote, to your quote and about the only topic you are stuck on at present.
I added quotation marks around the word topic above. Maybe you will approve. I am anxiously awaiting and hoping you will. It will mean the world to me Old Man.
Apparently you're not "done on this topic." Did you read the article that said if you support a racist, that makes one a racist? Look in the mirror, a racist is staring back at you.
PS, exactly how old am I? Have we met?
Greenland! 
PH
