irwin posted:

we should not be analyzing this in terms of guilt or innocence.  This is not a criminal proceeding.  If charges had been filed immediately after this incident took place (if indeed it did) since Judge kavanaugh was a minor at the time, it would likely have been dealt with in our juvenile court, where the issue is not termed "guilt or innocence".

The questions are (supposed to be) these:

1) Does this guy have the professional experience, intelligence, and exposure to the Supreme Court and its tasks and functions to serve on that court?  (for sure he does)

2) Are his views of the law so wacky and out of the mainstream that he should be rejected, or are they more normative? (They are normative)

3) The last....Does he possess the requisite moral character to serve in this position?  Personally, even if as a high school student or college kid he did some awful things, it seems that in the last 33 or so years he's been ok.  I think back to some of the things I did when I was young and stupid (as opposed to now, when I am old and stupid).  On balance, I'd be likely, if I were in the Senate, to give him a pass and vote for him.

But, now, based on the strident positions of both sides, there is a fourth question. An inappropriate one, in my view, and that is:  How would voting for or against the confirmation affect my political future?  The US Senators, who in general have backbones not unlike your average jellyfish, will vote solely on the basis of this 4th question.

In the movie about Justice ginsburg, Orrin Hatch said that he disagreed with her opinions on things, but that she was qualified, and hence he voted for her.  But this type of civility is gone.  Where are the Jeffersons and the Washingtons?  They are not in politics, they are in the NFL.

 

 

 

Irwin, this is a very good post and well said...and sadly I think I would agree with point four.

it should be exactly as Hatch stated.

mneeley490 posted:

The problem, as I see it, is with the speed that the committee wants to vote. Everyone knows they're trying to get this done before the coming disaster of the midterms, which even they have predicted they could lose at least the House.

But these allegations MUST be given a thorough investigation, whether Kavenaugh did them or not. Otherwise, if he is rushed to be appointed, he will have this cloud over his head for the rest of his career; much like Clarence Thomas. How could anyone trust him to rule on anything even close to a women's issue? Should he then recuse himself from them? That would be a very inefficient use of the Supreme Court's time.

Irwin’s post was well thought out...this is nonsensical.  How can these “allegations MUST” be given a thorough investigation when they have not found one credible person to cooberate either of them.  Yet over 200 women speak up for Kavanaugh!  This is a total scam.   The democrats went looking for person 2.  

I think this will backfire on the dems badly.  They cannot win a debate with the other side other than shouting ( racist, hates the environment, wants to take away social security..etc).

VOTE!

So now there are currently different allegations.  Avenatti, the "bulldog" that Putin's Bitch avoids calling out on Twitter like the premise of some horrorcore movie ("don't poke him on social media, or he'll haunt you anytime you're on the golf course!"), has promised that the 3rd accuser will be revealing herself in the next 48 hours.  Oh, and Avenatti is currently representing clients (i.e. plural) who have witnessed or experienced less than positive interactions with Kavanaugh and Mark Judge.  

And what should be funny if it weren't so despicable is that one of the women (Renate Schroeder, now Renate Dolphin) who initially vouched for Kavanaugh has all but retracted her support after being informed that numerous insinuations about her were made in high school yearbooks by Kavanaugh and his cronies.  Kavanaugh himself stated he was a "Renate Alumnius" in his personal yearbook page.  Another Georgetown Prep student (Michael Walsh) included this "innocent" remark about Renate Dolphin née Schroeder on his personal yearbook page:

“You need a date / and it’s getting late / so don’t hesitate / to call Renate.”

Theres a saying that "where there's smoke, there's fire".  There's a helluva lotta smoke that the White House and Senate GOP are trying to minimize/avoid here........

 

 

 

irwin posted:

Avenatti is to lawyers what Retsina is to wine.

Memorable and the people that love it love it and the people that don't hate it with a passion?

Fair enough description I guess. 

He's run circles around his opposition and is the yang to the Trump team's yin. If I had to pick between him or Gulliani to be my lawyer I know which one I would pick. 

Avenatti is like an MMA fighter who specializes in the "ground and pound" style.  He's a master of the very game that Putin's Bitch/GOP/alt right love to play - - - get in the dirt and rough up your opponents.  He's media savvy, but more importantly he's delivered on his outlandish claims more often than not.  We'll know soon enough if his clients have even more dirt on Kavanaugh, whose outlandish claims of being a model choirboy in his high school days are refuted by his own words in his yearbook.  

jcocktosten posted:

Any complaint about politicizing this is a friggin' joke after what they did to the Merrick Garland nomination - so whatever

It’s called the Biden rule!  He called for it first!  They gambled and won because Hillary is a giant POS.  And anyone who could pull the lever for her is just a sellout to the party!

VOTE!

napacat posted:
jcocktosten posted:

Any complaint about politicizing this is a friggin' joke after what they did to the Merrick Garland nomination - so whatever

It’s called the Biden rule!  He called for it first!  They gambled and won because Hillary is a giant POS.  And anyone who could pull the lever for her is just a sellout to the party!

VOTE!

So those who pulled the lever for Trump are what?  Sensible people who carefully weighed the pros and cons before deciding?  Or just as tribally loyal to the Republicans as many are to the Democrats? 

At least the collected world leaders didn't laugh out loud at Hillary - or Obama - at the UN or anywhere else.  Trump is such a clown, the world is laughing at him for all to see! How embarrassing for you....

billhike posted:
bman posted:

In case there is any question that the world is laughing at Trump, here is the world - literally - laughing at Trump today.  Even world leaders and very senior diplomats couldn't keep themselves from laughing out loud at him!

Trump at the UN today

I hope napacat had some tissues or a sock nearby while watching...

Pretty good speech overal...a bit self deprecating  and you play one little piece.  Disingenuous.  Love the way things are going.  Democrats are losers.  Prey on the general public and divide.  Jokers.  They cannot win a debate on issues or substance.  Go stand by Keith Ellison, prop up these fake claims against Kavanaugh.  Good luck...say hello to the next SC Justice.  Winning feels good.

Feel bad for a lot of you...would still share a nice bottle though! 

bman posted:
napacat posted:
jcocktosten posted:

Any complaint about politicizing this is a friggin' joke after what they did to the Merrick Garland nomination - so whatever

It’s called the Biden rule!  He called for it first!  They gambled and won because Hillary is a giant POS.  And anyone who could pull the lever for her is just a sellout to the party!

VOTE!

So those who pulled the lever for Trump are what?  Sensible people who carefully weighed the pros and cons before deciding?  Or just as tribally loyal to the Republicans as many are to the Democrats? 

At least the collected world leaders didn't laugh out loud at Hillary - or Obama - at the UN or anywhere else.  Trump is such a clown, the world is laughing at him for all to see! How embarrassing for you....

Those who pulled the lever for Trump are tired of the political corrupt class in DC.  It’s bad on both sides.  This is our best chance to have a change. 

Who could possibly voted for H.  A giant corrupt POS.

purplehaze posted:

I understand that there are several cures for political myopia.  They involve intellect, logic, open-mindedness and fact based reasoning.  

PH

Yes...you should seek those out.  Coming from the most closed minded people in the U.S...Democrats. Intolerant of any othe r view.  

Good luck.

purplehaze posted:

I understand that there are several cures for political myopia.  They involve intellect, logic, open-mindedness and fact based reasoning.  

PH

I'd just settle for logic.  How does one say that "You need to leave politics out of it and pick the best candidate"  then go on to say "everyone from this <insert political party> sucks"

napacat posted:
purplehaze posted:

I understand that there are several cures for political myopia.  They involve intellect, logic, open-mindedness and fact based reasoning.  

PH

Yes...you should seek those out.  Coming from the most closed minded people in the U.S...Democrats. Intolerant of any othe r view.  

Good luck.

I hope you note the irony in your post.

g-man posted:
napacat posted:
purplehaze posted:

I understand that there are several cures for political myopia.  They involve intellect, logic, open-mindedness and fact based reasoning.  

PH

Yes...you should seek those out.  Coming from the most closed minded people in the U.S...Democrats. Intolerant of any othe r view.  

Good luck.

I hope you note the irony in your post.

Just as Trump looked utterly baffled when the room laughed at him today, because he honestly believes the BS he hears on Fox and from his disciples, and so repeats several times a day, Napa probably believes the same thing for the same reason, and so is impervious to the irony of his comments.

napacat posted:
purplehaze posted:

I understand that there are several cures for political myopia.  They involve intellect, logic, open-mindedness and fact based reasoning.  

PH

Yes...you should seek those out.  Coming from the most closed minded people in the U.S...Democrats. Intolerant of any othe r view.  

Good luck.

I'll admit to it--I don't want to hear from bigots, racists or sexists. Since your boy is all three (and more) I don't want to hear from his supporters (enablers) either.

Oh my, I have been in Europe for a week and it seems the forum has decided to feed the troll once again. 

No one could be as willfully ignorant as Napa appears without being a simple troll. Napa clearly has the intellectual depth of a hummingbird, equates all in this thread as a Democrat that does not agree with him, ( WRONG) thinks Dump is a republican ( WRONG) has zero understanding of history just like Dump, yet Napa clear plays the fool well.

Napa attacks democrats. The hummingbird mind can’t understand it was the generational Democrats that put Dump in office. Pretty simple to understand for most. The hummingbird also can’t seem to comprehend ( surprise) that I haven’t seen people within this thread ( perhaps I missed something) that are taking strong positions on the nominee without ALL the facts. Seems odd to me that cases from decades ago have serious relevance against Cosby, sexual abuse cases 50 years old have relevance against priest, yet potential sexual abuse against Kavanaugh should not be thoroughly investigated. As people have pointed out to the hummingbird, background checks are not criminal investigations. Doesn’t seem too hard to me, but I’m not a hummingbird.

The fact that Kavanaugh’s accuser talked about him and his attack some six years ago, sought professional counsel, passed a lie detector test and is willing to face eleven old angry  white men before the nation would at least cause a moment of pause. What is the rush? The Republican Party was okay having only eight sitting justices for over 400 days, but now they are in a rush? Right! 

Napa our resident hummingbird brain is such a large pile of shit he makes Clinton’s look like a grain of salt in comparison... and as a Clinton hater, that is hard to do. 

Now, back to our European holiday where Dump is MUCH more hated than he even is by the 68% in America. 

THE WORLD LAUGHS AT OUR PRESIDENT! 

So instead of a politically corrupt candidate, a thoroughly corrupt candidate (moral, business, political, racist, sexist, homophobe, xenocentric) is a logical choice?  That makes lots of sense.

As does conservatives complaining about intolerance when the intolerance  is only being intolerant of intolerance 

jcocktosten posted:

So instead of a politically corrupt candidate, a thoroughly corrupt candidate (moral, business, political, racist, sexist, homophobe, xenocentric) is a logical choice?  That makes lots of sense.

As does conservatives complaining about intolerance when the intolerance  is only being intolerant of intolerance 

Great summation

Avenatti's client has been revealed.  The list of transgressions she states she personally saw Kavanaugh participate in/act out is the direct opposite of his claims that he spent his high school years as a light drinking, virginal and virtuous teenager who completely respected the females he socialized with.  She's also someone who has worked with a number of federal agencies, including the Dept of Defense and Homeland Security, and currently has an active security clearance with the Treasury Department.  Try as they might, I doubt even the GOP members of the Senate Judiciary Committee would try to minimize or ignore her allegations.

As I mentioned previously, this is a helluva hill that Putin's Bitch and the Senate GOP want to die on.  Look up the definition of "lose/lose", and this is exactly the situation they've lowered themselves into..........

"Try as they might, I doubt even the GOP members of the Senate Judiciary Committee would try to minimize or ignore her allegations."

They already have. They're moving on without her testifying, without an FBI investigation and all while hiding behind the skirt of the hired female prosecutor.

 

Judge Kavanaugh released notes of his old calendars yesterday.  I have saved my professional calendars since I became an attorney, 40 year ago.  It seemed like a good idea.  But,..........according to Judge Kavanaugh's calendar from 1982, he went to see Grease 2 (not Grease II as in Kavanaugh's calendar notes) , a sequel to Grease which had about twice the budget as the 1978 original and grossed about 3% as much as the original and was soundly trashed by most critics.  He took a date, named Suzanne, who he had apparently asked out 8 days earlier.
Where was the FBI on this? 

Anyone watching Trump's live stream-of-consciousness press conference at the moment cannot be in any doubt that he is nuts.  Legally insane.  Unless he's on meth or something else of course.  If you're missing it, go online and watch, you will be transfixed.

Of course, I use the term "press conference" loosely, as he hardly lets anyone finish a question before he goes off on a tangent, usually utterly unrelated to whatever question he's been asked.  How on earth did a guy like this end up President?

And now he's just said that Canada carries an $800 billion trade surplus with the US, which is of course not true, according to his own government's data and that of every other source on the matter.  

bman posted:

Anyone watching Trump's live stream-of-consciousness press conference at the moment cannot be in any doubt that he is nuts.  Legally insane.  Unless he's on meth or something else of course.  If you're missing it, go online and watch, you will be transfixed.

Of course, I use the term "press conference" loosely, as he hardly lets anyone finish a question before he goes off on a tangent, usually utterly unrelated to whatever question he's been asked.  How on earth did a guy like this end up President?

I am watching, as he takes credit for saving the world, attacks Obama and makes totally meaningless sentences. Man/child pussy grabber in chief.

bman  How on earth did a guy like this end up President?

1- Horrendously shitty opponent.

2- Pathetic voter turnout.

3- Disorganized Republican Party that couldn’t get a serious candidate with a brain and human skills through.

4- Stupid people being allowed reproductive rights.

theoldman posted:
bman posted:

Anyone watching Trump's live stream-of-consciousness press conference at the moment cannot be in any doubt that he is nuts.  Legally insane.  Unless he's on meth or something else of course.  If you're missing it, go online and watch, you will be transfixed.

Of course, I use the term "press conference" loosely, as he hardly lets anyone finish a question before he goes off on a tangent, usually utterly unrelated to whatever question he's been asked.  How on earth did a guy like this end up President?

I am watching, as he takes credit for saving the world, attacks Obama and makes totally meaningless sentences. Man/child pussy grabber in chief.

He actually said supporting Roy Moore was better than a Democrat getting in office.  It got lost in all of the other drivel that fell out of his mouth. 

billhike posted:
bman  How on earth did a guy like this end up President?

1- Horrendously shitty opponent.

2- Pathetic voter turnout.

3- Disorganized Republican Party that couldn’t get a serious candidate with a brain and human skills through.

With you on these.  

PH

The Dotard crashed the Republican party and stole the show, not because the Repubs were disorganized, but because no one in the party had the stones to stop him early on.  To punch him in the mouth <metaphorically of course> and take him out of the conversation.  It speaks poorly to the talent pool in the current GOP.  Sad.

PH

 

wineart 2 posted:

Oh my, I have been in Europe for a week and it seems the forum has decided to feed the troll once again. 

No one could be as willfully ignorant as Napa appears without being a simple troll. Napa clearly has the intellectual depth of a hummingbird, equates all in this thread as a Democrat that does not agree with him, ( WRONG) thinks Dump is a republican ( WRONG) has zero understanding of history just like Dump, yet Napa clear plays the fool well.

Napa attacks democrats. The hummingbird mind can’t understand it was the generational Democrats that put Dump in office. Pretty simple to understand for most. The hummingbird also can’t seem to comprehend ( surprise) that I haven’t seen people within this thread ( perhaps I missed something) that are taking strong positions on the nominee without ALL the facts. Seems odd to me that cases from decades ago have serious relevance against Cosby, sexual abuse cases 50 years old have relevance against priest, yet potential sexual abuse against Kavanaugh should not be thoroughly investigated. As people have pointed out to the hummingbird, background checks are not criminal investigations. Doesn’t seem too hard to me, but I’m not a hummingbird.

The fact that Kavanaugh’s accuser talked about him and his attack some six years ago, sought professional counsel, passed a lie detector test and is willing to face eleven old angry  white men before the nation would at least cause a moment of pause. What is the rush? The Republican Party was okay having only eight sitting justices for over 400 days, but now they are in a rush? Right! 

Napa our resident hummingbird brain is such a large pile of shit he makes Clinton’s look like a grain of salt in comparison... and as a Clinton hater, that is hard to do. 

Now, back to our European holiday where Dump is MUCH more hated than he even is by the 68% in America. 

THE WORLD LAUGHS AT OUR PRESIDENT! 

Stay in Europe...no point in conversing with you. 

Serious question.  Who believes Kavanaugh or the accusers?

I easily believe Kavannaugh...this is such a joke.

As an aside, trump was pretty entertaining today.  I will say, it is hard to believe he is the President...but why not.  I’m enjoying it.

napacat posted:

Serious question.  Who believes Kavanaugh or the accusers?

I easily believe Kavannaugh...this is such a joke.

As an aside, trump was pretty entertaining today.  I will say, it is hard to believe he is the President...but why not.  I’m enjoying it.

My view is that further investigation is needed. It's in everyone's interest that this happen, otherwise the one pillar of government that is supposed to be above politics - a ship that has pretty much already sailed, admittedly - will be forever seen as tainted, as will its decisions going forward.  How is that in America's interest?

Why is more investigation needed?

-the first accuser is a credible professional who said she was assaulted years ago

-the second accuser is also a credible professional

-the third accuser is another credible professional who has made a sworn affidavit to Congress, which I understand would lead to criminal charges if proven false

-and now there is a fourth accuser, apparently

-and all the circumstantial evidence suggests Kavanaugh was in fact no the sweet hard-working God-fearing kid he claimed but a hard-drinking hard-partying  typical teenager/ college student, as he himself more or less admitted in a speech a few years ago

Does this mean that he is lying?  Not necessarily, which is why more investigation is needed, ideally by a truly non-partisan entity, which probably means a non-American one.  I suggest the RCMP.....

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