quote:
Originally posted by Wine Sparty:
quote:
Originally posted by Pinotlvr:
RIP Chester Bennington, lead singer of Linkin Park. I haven't listened to much since Hybrid Theory...but man this is too soon. 41 yrs old....not too far removed from Chris Cornells's suicide we have another Frown

He was friends with Chris Cornell...and today would have been Cornell's 53rd birthday Wow

I was pretty bummed to hear about this. I listened to a lot of their music in my 20's, and even though I got away from them with their last couple albums, their older stuff is always in my rotation. I always thought he had one of the best rock voices out there.

I saw LP live at UIC Pavilion when they toured behind their debut. I remember thinking that there was no way that scrawny guy could pull off all of those screams for a full show, the go back and forth between the screams and clean singing. I was wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by billhike:
quote:
Originally posted by Wine Sparty:
quote:
Originally posted by Pinotlvr:
RIP Chester Bennington, lead singer of Linkin Park. I haven't listened to much since Hybrid Theory...but man this is too soon. 41 yrs old....not too far removed from Chris Cornells's suicide we have another Frown

He was friends with Chris Cornell...and today would have been Cornell's 53rd birthday Wow

I was pretty bummed to hear about this. I listened to a lot of their music in my 20's, and even though I got away from them with their last couple albums, their older stuff is always in my rotation. I always thought he had one of the best rock voices out there.

I saw LP live at UIC Pavilion when they toured behind their debut. I remember thinking that there was no way that scrawny guy could pull off all of those screams for a full show, the go back and forth between the screams and clean singing. I was wrong.

Yeah, it was something to be able to go back and forth like that. I always wanted to see them in concert. I still search for their performances on TV, and will continue to do so.

I can't imagine the stuff that goes on to lead people to make decisions like this
he had a very troubled past.

was a heavy acid user, drank quite alot, failed marriage, second wife wasnt chilling with him.

he has always said that the music was the only thing left and their last album was pretty much derided by everyone. But if you looked at hte track, alot of the songs all relate to some really dark struggles.

it's a shame, an incredibly talented singer and performer. rip
quote:
Originally posted by sunnylea57:
June Foray

99 years old

The voice of Rocky the Flying Squirrel, Natasha Fatale, Cindy Lou Who, Talking Tina (from the classic Twilight Zone episode) and quite literally thousands of others.


If not for this forum, I might have missed this, Sunny! Wink

We have serior staff in the White House concerned their complete dysfunction is not yet completely to the standards of a Banana Republic grabbing all the headlines. It's a real team effort to say the least!
As a Spartan I remember this well. Went to game
The 1966 Notre Dame vs. Michigan State football game is considered one of the greatest and most controversial games in college football history played between Michigan State and Notre Dame.[1] The game was played in Michigan State's Spartan Stadium on November 19, 1966. Michigan State entered the contest 9–0 and ranked No. 2, while Notre Dame entered 8–0 and ranked #1. Notre Dame elected not to try for a score on the final series; thus, the game ended in a 10–10 tie.
Sad to hear of the passing of Goldy McJohn on August 1st. Keyboardist for Steppenwolf and a fellow Canadian. (Most of the founders of Steppenwolf were from Toronto. They started in Yorkville as The Sparrow, and changed their name when John Kay - who is NOT Canadian- joined.)

Impossible to overstate Goldy's place as one of the masters of the B3 organ and Leslie speaker. His B3 playing was such an integral part of their sound. The obvious track to listen to is Born to be Wild with his swirling, driving organ sound, but he shapes the sound on nearly all of their tracks.
Don Baylor...another former Oriole. Finished his career with 338 home runs and 285 stolen bases. Also played with the Athletics, Angels, Yankees, Red Sox, Twin and back to the Athletics.
In 1979 had 36 home runs and 139 RBIs, with 186 hits. Batted .296. He won the MVP award that year.
68 years old.
Frown
quote:
Originally posted by haggis:
quote:
Originally posted by dinwiddie:
Heather Heyer. Killed by the Neo-Nazi POS while opposing racism and hate.


+1


+2! I hear this animal is going to be charged with 2nd degree murder. Why not 1st degree? He had planned to do this and death was a logical conclusion. Is it because he didn't know the poor woman he killed? Any lawyers know what is going on with these charges?
quote:
Originally posted by Board-O:
quote:
Originally posted by haggis:
quote:
Originally posted by dinwiddie:
Heather Heyer. Killed by the Neo-Nazi POS while opposing racism and hate.


+1


+2! I hear this animal is going to be charged with 2nd degree murder. Why not 1st degree? He had planned to do this and death was a logical conclusion. Is it because he didn't know the poor woman he killed? Any lawyers know what is going on with these charges?


The answer is based on Virginia law, but I assume that the cops don't think they can prove that this guy planned and intended to kill someone (premeditation) but rather it was "heat of passion" murder. that is, he drove to Charlottesville from Ohio not intending to kill anyone. But, tempers flew, he lost it, and went to his car, started the engine and drove into the crowd.
That is a bit speculative on my part.
There is also something called "depraved heart" murder, which I thought was 1st degree murder, and this would seem to qualify.
Note: I only do civil law, not criminal.

The statues of the confederate generals, who are venerated by the Neo Nazis (and there is very little "neo" about them) should be removed. A statue of Heather Heyer should be erected.
Why stop with monuments to just Confederate generals? How about the Founding Fathers who owned slaves (Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Hamilton, Madison, John Adams). Seems like there are quite a few large monuments that need to be pulled down before those neo-Nazis start glorifying them too.
quote:
Originally posted by Arsenal4ever:
Why stop with monuments to just Confederate generals? How about the Founding Fathers who owned slaves (Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Hamilton, Madison, John Adams). Seems like there are quite a few large monuments that need to be pulled down before those neo-Nazis start glorifying them too.


I used to think this also. George Washington is, after all, on the $1 bill. But, here is the difference. It's not just that George Washington and those other folks did a lot of good stuff. Most of the statues to Lee, Stonewall Jackson, etc. were erected in the timeframe of 1900-1920, as homage not to the person, but as a statement that Segregation, Jim Crow, poll taxes, and other vestiges of slavery should be honored. None of that should be honored. It is part of our history, but it is a blight on that history.
Don't know how old you are, but I am old enough that I remember segregated schools here in Maryland and segregated restaurants. It is odious. By the way, I sort of doubt that John Adams owned any slaves, but perhaps you are more of a history buff than I.

The point is this: Our society has moved on from the days of slavery and segregation. We've enacted laws to prohibit these types of things.
We should not venerate those who sought to destroy our country through secession and war.
The men you mention sought to build up our country, and were the authors of our great Constitution (with its frailties) and our Revolution. I don't favor erecting a monument to King George III, just because he was part of our history.
Let's build our country up, not tear it down.
I hope that is ok with you.
One more thought....
My father came to this country at around age 19 as a refugee from Hitler. Your personal status in his birth country did not determine merely economic status, or to what school you could go, but whether you were put to death or not.

Upon his arrival here, my father tried to get into the US Army to go back to Europe to fight in WW II. But, he wasn't a citizen, couldn't speak English too well, and had bad knees and poor eyesight. The army turned him down. But, by 1943 his English had improved some and he tried again and was whisked into Texas for a 2 week citizenship training thing, got his US citizenship, and shipped out to Europe. He became a sergeant and the fact that he could speak German and French was useful.
Many years after the war he noted to my brother and me that one thing he could not understand- We were there to fight racism. Why did we have a segregated Army?
We're really not arguing against each other. My point is - where does it stop? The Founding Fathers that are on those monuments (and yes - Adams was a slave holder), allowed slavery to continue. They did not attempt to stop it (or limit it) when this country was founded despite the principals they enacted, and the following generations, actually passed laws (Fugitive Slave) to protect the slave holders "property." Probably the true beginning of Jim Crow. So we venerate Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, etc., but shouldn't they be potential targets as the Confederacy is now? And, not that it matters, but I am descended from ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War, War of 1812, Civil War, Spanish American, and WW2.
Glad we're not arguing, just discussing.

I think a reasonable test would be this: Would we today create a statue, mint a postage stamp, or place this person on a new coin?
The folks you mentioned: Franklin, Washington, etc..... the answer, I think is "yes". They had faults. We all do. (Even I do!) Biblical figures, like Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammad....all had faults because imperfection is an element of humanness.
But, would we mint a coin today to honor Stonewall Jackson? A postage stamp to honor the birthday of Rbt. E. Lee? I return to the example of King George III.-- would we honor him?

Somehow I am reminded of the words of Billy Shakespeare in the Mark Antony speech...
"The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones"
Perhaps this thought supports your position, perhaps mine. But, as you say, we are not arguing, just discussing.
quote:
Originally posted by irwin:
quote:
Originally posted by Arsenal4ever:
Why stop with monuments to just Confederate generals? How about the Founding Fathers who owned slaves (Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Hamilton, Madison, John Adams). Seems like there are quite a few large monuments that need to be pulled down before those neo-Nazis start glorifying them too.


I used to think this also. George Washington is, after all, on the $1 bill. But, here is the difference. It's not just that George Washington and those other folks did a lot of good stuff. Most of the statues to Lee, Stonewall Jackson, etc. were erected in the timeframe of 1900-1920, as homage not to the person, but as a statement that Segregation, Jim Crow, poll taxes, and other vestiges of slavery should be honored. None of that should be honored. It is part of our history, but it is a blight on that history.
Don't know how old you are, but I am old enough that I remember segregated schools here in Maryland and segregated restaurants. It is odious. By the way, I sort of doubt that John Adams owned any slaves, but perhaps you are more of a history buff than I.

The point is this: Our society has moved on from the days of slavery and segregation. We've enacted laws to prohibit these types of things.
We should not venerate those who sought to destroy our country through secession and war.
The men you mention sought to build up our country, and were the authors of our great Constitution (with its frailties) and our Revolution. I don't favor erecting a monument to King George III, just because he was part of our history.
Let's build our country up, not tear it down.
I hope that is ok with you.



Agreed about the statues. Many were, indeed, erected WELL after the Civil War. In fact, because the Confederacy was defeated, there was no way to erect such statues at the time. It would be like erecting statues to British generals in US cities after the War of Independence. Or to George III, as Irwin notes. Now way that would or could have happened. Same in this present case. As Irwin says, the majority of these statues were erected by those who supported Jim Crow, segregation, etc. They were not erected with good intentions or thoughtful consideration, so I think it is fine that they come down.
quote:
Originally posted by irwin:
Glad we're not arguing, just discussing.

I think a reasonable test would be this: Would we today create a statue, mint a postage stamp, or place this person on a new coin?
The folks you mentioned: Franklin, Washington, etc..... the answer, I think is "yes". They had faults. We all do. (Even I do!) Biblical figures, like Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammad....all had faults because imperfection is an element of humanness.
But, would we mint a coin today to honor Stonewall Jackson? A postage stamp to honor the birthday of Rbt. E. Lee? I return to the example of King George III.-- would we honor him?

Somehow I am reminded of the words of Billy Shakespeare in the Mark Antony speech...
"The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones"
Perhaps this thought supports your position, perhaps mine. But, as you say, we are not arguing, just discussing.


I'm aware of at least 7 direct ancestors of mine that fought for the south during the Civil War, so while I think these monuments can be made part of history, I'd say the line is quite clear for me. We shouldn't honor generals of the losing side of a war in public squares, in front of courthouses, etc. They should only be displayed in milatary cemeteries and war memorials. Don't re-write history, but also don't give more honor to the losing side than deserved.
I usually avoid these types of discussions, but here goes. Your points are well made.
At the conclusion of the Civil War, within five years, Union statues and memorials were erected on battlefields, most of which were in the South. The South was defeated and basically destitute (economy wrecked), and could not afford the cost to build any. Did you know that 20% of Mississippi's 1866 budget went for prosthetics? Most of the Confederate memorials that are in question were built 15-20 years after the War, and those on the battlefields are dwarfed in size by those built by the winning side. And yes, I'm sure some were build explicitly to remind the freed slaves that they were still under master's control. But some were built to remember or memorialize family members that perished in the War. Looking at Union statues on Southern soil after losing the War had to be hard to stomach for some.
Anyway, end of what little I know. I only hope that we don't always use 21st Century logic to explain and do away with 19th Century actions. We might decide that some of our heroes (Washington, Jefferson, etc.) also don't deserve the memorials we've built.
quote:
Originally posted by Arsenal4ever:
I usually avoid these types of discussions, but here goes. Your points are well made.
At the conclusion of the Civil War, within five years, Union statues and memorials were erected on battlefields, most of which were in the South. The South was defeated and basically destitute (economy wrecked), and could not afford the cost to build any. Did you know that 20% of Mississippi's 1866 budget went for prosthetics? Most of the Confederate memorials that are in question were built 15-20 years after the War, and those on the battlefields are dwarfed in size by those built by the winning side. And yes, I'm sure some were build explicitly to remind the freed slaves that they were still under master's control. But some were built to remember or memorialize family members that perished in the War. Looking at Union statues on Southern soil after losing the War had to be hard to stomach for some.
Anyway, end of what little I know. I only hope that we don't always use 21st Century logic to explain and do away with 19th Century actions. We might decide that some of our heroes (Washington, Jefferson, etc.) also don't deserve the memorials we've built.


This could be very dangerous path we are embarking on.
quote:
Originally posted by Napacat:
quote:
Originally posted by Arsenal4ever:
I usually avoid these types of discussions, but here goes. Your points are well made.
At the conclusion of the Civil War, within five years, Union statues and memorials were erected on battlefields, most of which were in the South. The South was defeated and basically destitute (economy wrecked), and could not afford the cost to build any. Did you know that 20% of Mississippi's 1866 budget went for prosthetics? Most of the Confederate memorials that are in question were built 15-20 years after the War, and those on the battlefields are dwarfed in size by those built by the winning side. And yes, I'm sure some were build explicitly to remind the freed slaves that they were still under master's control. But some were built to remember or memorialize family members that perished in the War. Looking at Union statues on Southern soil after losing the War had to be hard to stomach for some.
Anyway, end of what little I know. I only hope that we don't always use 21st Century logic to explain and do away with 19th Century actions. We might decide that some of our heroes (Washington, Jefferson, etc.) also don't deserve the memorials we've built.


This could be very dangerous path we are embarking on.


And as I wrote that...I learned that Sharpton wants to have the Jefferson Memorial taken down. You have got to be kidding...sadly he is not.
quote:
Originally posted by Arsenal4ever:
We're really not arguing against each other. My point is - where does it stop? The Founding Fathers that are on those monuments (and yes - Adams was a slave holder), allowed slavery to continue. They did not attempt to stop it (or limit it) when this country was founded despite the principals they enacted, and the following generations, actually passed laws (Fugitive Slave) to protect the slave holders "property." Probably the true beginning of Jim Crow. So we venerate Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, etc., but shouldn't they be potential targets as the Confederacy is now? And, not that it matters, but I am descended from ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War, War of 1812, Civil War, Spanish American, and WW2.


John Adams did not own slaves.
quote:
Originally posted by Seaquam:
quote:
Originally posted by billhike:

abortion...


Why Bill, thank you for providing another inoffensive topic of discussion to which we can drift. It seems as though we never really have enough of these.

Now, what position to take on this issue... Big Grin


Woman's right to choose!
Jerry Lewis was iconic as a young actor/comedian. His charitable was extraordinary and worthy of a Nobel prize. He was nominated but never received that honor.
RIP Mr. Lewis. Your memories will be time honored. Condolences to his entire family and professional community.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Sally Yates
Michael Flynn
Preet Bharara
James Comey
Michael Dubke
Walter Shaub
Sean Spicer
Reince Priebus
Anthony Scaramucci
Steve Bannon

Stay tuned...


Add Gorka

The added revolving door at the White House during Trumps vacation will be used often. Eleven and counting. What a leader!

Next up...
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Sally Yates
Michael Flynn
Preet Bharara
James Comey
Michael Dubke
Walter Shaub
Sean Spicer
Reince Priebus
Anthony Scaramucci
Steve Bannon

Stay tuned...


Add Gorka

The added revolving door at the White House during Trumps vacation will be used often. Eleven and counting. What a leader!

Next up...

what too much winning looks like.
quote:
Originally posted by mdsphoto:
The Legendary director Tobe Hooper. I'm gonna fire up my Stihl in his honor today!

Besides TCSM, he directed Poltergeist (although I seem to recall chatter that Spielberg's directorial hand was all over this) and the TV movie of Salem's Lot. Quite like Salem's Lot at the time. Should dig out the DVD to see how it stands up now.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Sally Yates
Michael Flynn
Preet Bharara
James Comey
Michael Dubke
Walter Shaub
Sean Spicer
Reince Priebus
Anthony Scaramucci
Steve Bannon

Stay tuned...


Add Gorka

The added revolving door at the White House during Trumps vacation will be used often. Eleven and counting. What a leader!

Next up...


Yet one more Trump appointee resigns, William Bradford. Twelve and counting for this kangaroo court lead by the Orange Kangaroo himself.

All this in his first eight months.

I am so damn tired of winning, but who knew it would be so hard.? Big Grin

Next....
quote:
Originally posted by mneeley490:
quote:
Originally posted by sunnylea57:
Walter Becker (Steely Dan)

Only 67 years old


No static at all.


I had the Bluetooth control at a gathering Labor Day weekend, and me and a brother in law called out the tunes. Man, what a force. Sophistication, the Dan were, in audio form. RIP, Walter.
Jean Nerva - Snowboarding legend. He and Peter Bauer made carving what it is today. My first race boards were all Burton PJ (peter-jean) models and after watching 'fear of flat planet' i spent a lot of time trying to perfect those laid out flat 'euro' carves those guys did, breaking at least one walkman in the process.
Bobby Heenan
American professional wrestler / manager


Raymond Louis Heenan (November 1, 1944 – September 17, 2017), better known as Bobby "The Brain" and/or "The Weasel" Heenan, was an American professional wrestling manager, wrestler, and color commentator, best known for his time with the American Wrestling Association (AWA), the World Wrestling Federation (WWF) and World Championship Wrestling (WCW). He was known for his skill in drawing heel heat for himself and his wrestlers, and for his on-screen repartee with Gorilla Monsoon as a color commentator. He was inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame in 2004, by Blackjack Lanza. Wrestling journalists Dave Meltzer and Wade Keller noted that Heenan is generally considered to be the greatest pro wrestling manager of all time.


Bobby Heenan ... Quotes:
A friend in need is a pest.
I'm a legend in this sport. If you don't believe me, ask me.
I know all about cheating. I've had six very successful marriages.
quote:
Originally posted by Maverick:
Bobby Heenan
American professional wrestler / manager


Raymond Louis Heenan (November 1, 1944 – September 17, 2017), better known as Bobby "The Brain" and/or "The Weasel" Heenan, was an American professional wrestling manager, wrestler, and color commentator, best known for his time with the American Wrestling Association (AWA), the World Wrestling Federation (WWF) and World Championship Wrestling (WCW). He was known for his skill in drawing heel heat for himself and his wrestlers, and for his on-screen repartee with Gorilla Monsoon as a color commentator. He was inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame in 2004, by Blackjack Lanza. Wrestling journalists Dave Meltzer and Wade Keller noted that Heenan is generally considered to be the greatest pro wrestling manager of all time.


Bobby Heenan ... Quotes:
A friend in need is a pest.
I'm a legend in this sport. If you don't believe me, ask me.
I know all about cheating. I've had six very successful marriages.


Hadn't seen or thought about Brain since the 80's so I looked him up when I heard he passed. Wow, he had some tough times and was totally unrecognizable due to the jaw & throat surgeries, quite sad.
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by mneeley490:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
Martha - a member of our tennis community in Key West Frown


Irma?


Health related exacerbated by Irma

Sorry to hear. All the hurricanes this year have done a number on a lot of folks.
Hugh Marston Hefner (April 9, 1926 – September 27, 2017) was an American men's lifestyle magazine publisher, businessman, and playboy. Hefner was a native of Chicago, Illinois, and a former journalist for Esquire. He was best known for being the founder and chief creative officer of Playboy Enterprises. A multi-millionaire, his net worth at the time of his death was over $43 million due to his success as the founder of Playboy magazine. Hefner was also a political activist and philanthropist active in several causes and public issues. He was a World War III veteran.
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Sally Yates
Michael Flynn
Preet Bharara
James Comey
Michael Dubke
Walter Shaub
Sean Spicer
Reince Priebus
Anthony Scaramucci
Steve Bannon

Stay tuned...


Add Gorka

The added revolving door at the White House during Trumps vacation will be used often. Eleven and counting. What a leader!

Next up...


Tom Price joins the ever growing infamous list.
One of my favorites during my college years and started out in his hometown of Gainesville, FL. Haven't seen him live in awhile and he always put on a good show. Recently downloaded a hi rez version of his greatest hits that I'll be listening to tonight (though I have all his albums through the early 90's and 3 concert DVDs).

RIP Tom and I trust you will put on a great show for the folks we lost in Vegas.
quote:
Originally posted by VinT:
quote:
Originally posted by sunnylea57:
quote:
Originally posted by mangiare:
RIP Gord Downie RIP

Frown

Frown Frown

I think it was during or just before our vacation in Ontario last summer that Gord's diagnosis was announced - my timing could be off. I recall the local radio stations playing TH music like crazy. I also recall thinking that I liked a good amount of what I heard, despite my preferences leaning towards heavier stuff. It was only later that I learned that band's and Gord's impact on a generation (or two) of Canadians. RIP to him, and condolences to his family, friends and fans.
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by irwin:
Ray Halladay....age 40...retired baseball player.
Two time Cy Young award winner.
Plane crash.


Yikes

Crap. Roy Halladay was a much-loved legend in Toronto, and an eight-time all star. RIP.
quote:
Originally posted by pape du neuf:
Patricia Green, winemaker, 62, of undetermined cause.
I'm sure many forum members have met Patty at her Willamette Valley winery, and many more have appreciated her wine. A big loss for the wine loving community.


Sorry to see this. A true Oregon pioneer. RIP
One of the best Jays games I attended was in 2009 when A.J. Burnett came back to TO in yankee pinstripes and he squared off against Doc. The atmosphere in the dome was like a playoff game. While Burnett was good, Doc put on a clinic and beat the yankees 5-1.

Really sorry to hear of his accident. One of the best pitchers I'ver seen. Even when the jays sucked, if Doc was on the mound, I was going to the game.
My best memory of Doc is seeing him throw a 10 inning complete game shutout. Things that would never ever happen anymore.

The guy was an absolute stud and a workhorse and as great a pitcher he was, he was an even better person by all reports. This one hurts big time.
One of our drivers, his fiancee and 3 children in a car crash on a narrow 2 lane highway in N. KY. The other driver crossed the middle line. Tragic situation when all 5 people are killed. I can only imagine the speed of the vehicles for this to happen. RIP Rodney.

IW
quote:
Originally posted by Italian Wino:
One of our drivers, his fiancee and 3 children in a car crash on a narrow 2 lane highway in N. KY. The other driver crossed the middle line. Tragic situation when all 5 people are killed. I can only imagine the speed of the vehicles for this to happen. RIP Rodney.

IW



OMG SO SAD!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Italian Wino:
One of our drivers, his fiancee and 3 children in a car crash on a narrow 2 lane highway in N. KY. The other driver crossed the middle line. Tragic situation when all 5 people are killed. I can only imagine the speed of the vehicles for this to happen. RIP Rodney.

IW


Terrible news, IW. I'm very sorry for your loss.

PH
quote:
Originally posted by Italian Wino:
One of our drivers, his fiancee and 3 children in a car crash on a narrow 2 lane highway in N. KY. The other driver crossed the middle line. Tragic situation when all 5 people are killed. I can only imagine the speed of the vehicles for this to happen. RIP Rodney.

IW


So sorry to see this, IW. I have a close friend whose niece and her parents died that way when a drunk driver crossed into their lane. I can only imagine the sadness. Frown

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