Proper forum etiquette

What is the proper etiquette for asking the forum members’ opinion on a particular wine? Should I post the question in the “Tasting Notes” or does the wine have to be a high end wine for me to post it in that section. I just bought a Bighorn Cellars 2003 Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon which was recommended by a friend that I ran into at Costco. Does anyone consider this wine a decent everyday wine, at least? The wine costs $23.00. Hopefully, I don’t get slammed on this one.
Original Post
I don't know that wine so much but go to another section for sure. The "learn wine" area is pretty weak.

quote:
Should I post the question in the “Tasting Notes” or does the wine have to be a high end wine for me to post it in that section.


The wine does not have to a high end wine at all. Plenty of good and bad wines on there. Cheap and expensive. Search the Tasting Note section too. There may be something on it. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by Sancho Panza:
Does anyone consider this wine a decent everyday wine, at least? The wine costs $23.00. Hopefully, I don’t get slammed on this one.

Sancho, don't worry about someone 'slamming you' for asking about ANY wine. I highly doubt that would happen. You have every right to inquire about any wine you want....

Have no fear! Wink
quote:
Originally posted by KSC02:
quote:
Originally posted by Sancho Panza:
Does anyone consider this wine a decent everyday wine, at least? The wine costs $23.00. Hopefully, I don’t get slammed on this one.

Sancho, don't worry about someone 'slamming you' for asking about ANY wine. I highly doubt that would happen. You have every right to inquire about any wine you want....

Have no fear! Wink


Good man; thank you.
Agreed! I have little use for the notable A-holes who bash lovers of good cheap QPR wines. I used to more gun shy about it, but I've no problems asking about, or posting TNs about something like a Kirkland (costco) Shiraz. Just dismiss the pomposity and you'll be fine.
quote:
Originally posted by mpls wine guy:
I have seen the wine but never tried it. You'll have to let us all know if it's a good buy! Razz


Thanks fellas.

I don’t think I should start another thread so I will ask within this one. I am beginning to get more familiar with certain likes and dislikes of my wine tasting experience. Along those lines, I discovered that with a meal especially a good steak and potato meal, I like specifically the tannins and alcohol to come through my wine pairing. From what I read though, in the forums and in a couple of books, the implication is that the wine should integrate with the meal. Well, I find that disappointing. I have had inexpensive Bordeauxs (GV suggested QPR Bordeauxs) where with my meat meals the wine basically subsides, a very disappointing experience, at least on my palate. Yet when I drink these wines separately, the taste of the wine (tannins, acidity, etc) is very prominent. Am I an anomaly in the wine rules of food and wine pairing in that I like the wine to be more forceful than the meal itself?
quote:
Am I an anomaly in the wine rules of food and wine pairing in that I like the wine to be more forceful than the meal itself?


Yes, I think so. I've had meals where the wine has overwhelmed the food and have just lost interest in eating. This happened to me with a bottle of 2000 Shafer Hillside Select a while back. I left a perfectly good steak, salad and potataoes on the table and took my glass and the bottle to the fireplace for the balance of the evening.

I perfer that the wine and food balance each other, but in this situation I was not complaining. Wink

PH
quote:
Am I an anomaly in the wine rules of food and wine pairing in that I like the wine to be more forceful than the meal itself?


Not at all; however, in general you obviously want to strike a reasonable balance.

I believe that pairing is one of the great joys of wine. Even when following the traditional pairing rules, you will find interesting variances of taste and texture, and to me that enhances my dining experience.

It sounds to me like you are doing very well. You seem to have a good understanding of your palate, from which you can now experiment with all kinds of food and wine combinations.

By the way, if I have to choose between the wine or food outshining the other, I'll take the wine every time. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by SD-Wineaux:
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
... and took my glass and the bottle to the fireplace for the balance of the evening.

Didn't even share with your dinner companions? Razz Wink Big Grin


The only other person at dinner that evening was my wife. I did let her keep what was in her glass. Wink

PH
Hi Sancho, i think there's three ways to pairing, when the wine is the protagonist, when the meal is the protagonist, and when you want balance.

sometimes you have a great wine and you want a simple food that highlight the wine.

sometimes you have a great meal and you want a simple wine that highlight the meal.

and sometimes you want balance simple food with simple wine.
Sancho - I think the guys above are right on the money. Juan broke it down well. People have written books on the distinctions he noted. Other people have broken it down differently - for example some people say simple food + complex wine, complex food + simple wine, but in the end, just drink whatever strikes your fancy.

Or you can get all analytical about it if you want, and that's OK.

I guess I would say that you need to think about 2 things in your food - the dominant flavors and their intensity, and the fat ratio.

Depending on your preferences, you may find that a complex dish overwhelms your aged wines however, and consequently, you may prefer a simple dish with more complex wines, and vice versa. That lets you highlight the wine in the first case, maybe not so much in the second. But then you also need to define what you mean by complexity because a dish in which things have been braised or cooked for hours, can be very complex, but not to the point that it overwhelms your wine.

A piece of beef for example, grilled and slightly charred, and some roasted potatoes, will generally go well with a fairly tannic wine. (Highlights the wine.) But as the poster noted above, not everyone agrees.

On the other hand, a smaller piece of beef in a rich tomato sauce might not want as tannic a wine. That's why people tend to go for wines with more acidity and maybe fewer tannins with tomato-based preparations. Tomatoes are so dominant and acidic that your wine can easily be overwhelmed unless it's got a decent level of acidity - it's why young Chiantis and the like works well, and why really dry, crisp whites work with lemon-based dishes. (Highlights the food.)

More composed dishes, like beef and lamb stews, etc., in which you may have onions, pepper, some root vegetables, herbs, etc., can be pretty complex in a sense, but if they are straightforward dishes in which the meat flavors are still be quite dominant, you can match a really nice full-bodied wine with them. (Balances the two.)

You shouldn't overlook the weight of the wine/food because that's something else to play with. Your full-bodied wine with your braised dish above, for example, matches weight with weight. On the other hand, leaner wines can offer nice counterpoints to fattier dishes like fried food. But again, it's not like you need to really sweat any of that - if the wine doesn't go with your food too well, just enjoy them separately.
quote:
Originally posted by Juan C. Calabria G.:
Hi Sancho, i think there's three ways to pairing, when the wine is the protagonist, when the meal is the protagonist, and when you want balance.

sometimes you have a great wine and you want a simple food that highlight the wine.

sometimes you have a great meal and you want a simple wine that highlight the meal.

and sometimes you want balance simple food with simple wine.


JCCG,

Your approach is interesting. Last night I achieved balance, but mind you, not integration (which I am not too crazy about, and I still do not understand what that means). In other words and like I said before, I like to taste the best attributes of the wine and of the meal. (That’s my ideal food and wine pairing.) I had a simple meal last night. My lady made ground beef tacos with shredded lettuce and tomatoes, along with a fresh salsa consisting of avocado, cilantro, tomatoes, and Serrano chilies and brought to a more pleasant acidic taste with lemon and salt. We also had black beans and Spanish rice. By the way, you may not be familiar in Venezuela with this common meal in Southern California. This type of meal is due to the historical Mexican influence of California.

Well, I was not sure what to pair with this meal, and I did feel like drinking some wine. But, I remembered that some of the fellows in the forum had talked about pairing Zinfandel with spicy meals. I did and it was wonderful. The wine was a 2005 Old Vine Cuvee Zinfandel, California. The fruit on the palate was rich, immediately; I mean…I could taste it all over my palate. However, it was pleasant because there were other pleasing taste experiences in the wine (that I can’t describe yet) that eased the initial fruit forward sensation. Anyway, I enjoyed every taste of my meal and every taste of my wine. And, it was all very simple.
quote:
Originally posted by GregT:
Sancho - I think the guys above are right on the money. Juan broke it down well. People have written books on the distinctions he noted. Other people have broken it down differently - for example some people say simple food + complex wine, complex food + simple wine, but in the end, just drink whatever strikes your fancy.

Or you can get all analytical about it if you want, and that's OK.

I guess I would say that you need to think about 2 things in your food - the dominant flavors and their intensity, and the fat ratio.

Depending on your preferences, you may find that a complex dish overwhelms your aged wines however, and consequently, you may prefer a simple dish with more complex wines, and vice versa. That lets you highlight the wine in the first case, maybe not so much in the second. But then you also need to define what you mean by complexity because a dish in which things have been braised or cooked for hours, can be very complex, but not to the point that it overwhelms your wine.

A piece of beef for example, grilled and slightly charred, and some roasted potatoes, will generally go well with a fairly tannic wine. (Highlights the wine.) But as the poster noted above, not everyone agrees.

On the other hand, a smaller piece of beef in a rich tomato sauce might not want as tannic a wine. That's why people tend to go for wines with more acidity and maybe fewer tannins with tomato-based preparations. Tomatoes are so dominant and acidic that your wine can easily be overwhelmed unless it's got a decent level of acidity - it's why young Chiantis and the like works well, and why really dry, crisp whites work with lemon-based dishes. (Highlights the food.)

More composed dishes, like beef and lamb stews, etc., in which you may have onions, pepper, some root vegetables, herbs, etc., can be pretty complex in a sense, but if they are straightforward dishes in which the meat flavors are still be quite dominant, you can match a really nice full-bodied wine with them. (Balances the two.)

You shouldn't overlook the weight of the wine/food because that's something else to play with. Your full-bodied wine with your braised dish above, for example, matches weight with weight. On the other hand, leaner wines can offer nice counterpoints to fattier dishes like fried food. But again, it's not like you need to really sweat any of that - if the wine doesn't go with your food too well, just enjoy them separately.


GretT,

You're always helpful. This is good info, thanks. Hey, I have an opinion to ask of you and indybob. I will post it on this same thread as a reply to indybob's last post.
quote:
Originally posted by indybob:
Pancho,

That was a great post, and very rewarding to read. Glad you enjoyed the meal! Not too many things more satisfying than good food and drink.

Cheers,


indybob and GregT,

I have $350 that want I to spend on 3 bottles of the same wine that I want to keep for 7 to 10 years. Actually, I want to drink one sooner, just to know the inital taste that I am dealing with. My preference is a red and something that you fellas would buy to keep for that long. I know that $350 bucks is not much for 3 bottles of quality red wine. However, if it's possible, I would appreciate your suggestions. What would you buy given those parameters?
Sancho,

My first recommendation, based on wines you seem to enjoy, would be to go with something like a good Aussie Shiraz. Like Kilikanoon Oracle, Penfolds RWT, or Clarendon Hills Hickinbotham, all at 60-80 bucks each. But, that said, my personal recommendation would be to get a 2001 Frescobaldi Castelgiocondo Brunello (online for about $70 bucks, or less, and rated WS 94pts), and you can save your money for good QPRs. Anymore, I'm realizing that there is LOTS of great 15 dollar wines to enjoy. Back to the Frescobaldi, It's a monster now, and you can try it when it's a tannic beast, and as it mellows for the next ten years.

And, take the $350 and get four bottles to stretch into 15 years. . .
quote:
GretT,

You're always helpful.


I can guarantee that you'll get some disagreement on that! But thanks.

As to your other question - it's really hard to answer w'out knowing your preferences, but it's a fair question.

First, know that not all wines improve. Some hang on, some die out, and a very few really improve with time. By improve, I don't mean that they just get a little softer, I mean that they evolve into something more complex and hopefully, better.

Given the two parameters of your budget and your desire to drink something right away too, here's a stab at it - you can try Ridge zinfandels like Lytton or Geyserville - they have track records of lasting many many years. And they become something VERY different with age, even tho you can drink them right away. They're only around $30-$40. Last week I had a 1995, week before that a 1989. Nice wines.

Or you can get something Spanish. A new style Rioja like the 2001 Roda I is about $60 and drinks well now and for years to come, evoloving over time. Great stuff! Or something like a 2001 Ribera del Duero, say Alion. About $60, GREAT today, good for decades. The 2004s are good too, but are likely to be more expensive these days.

Or both, since they'll come in under your budget and will definitely reward cellaring. If you come to NYC, let me know and we'll open some so you can see.

The reason I suggested those is that they drink well now, they change, and they're good illustrations of how a wine develops.

There are probably thousands of other possibilities. Many many more say from Italy, France, Washington, etc., For example, some of the right Bank Bordeaux from a vintage like 1998. Some very good stuff there.

There's a lot of things that are much more expensive, but I don't think paying a lot more necessarily gives you a more rewarding experience. Good luck


You could certainly look at some Bordeaux, not the First or Second Growths maybe, but the problem is that they might not be all that great right now.
Nice,

GregT's suggestions are really good I think. The Bordeaux idea is excellent, although I'm not sure you're palate would agree. Many of the 92-93 pointers would be great to track for the next ten years I think. And, would leave you with $$$ so spare.
quote:
Originally posted by Sancho Panza:

indybob and GregT,

I have $350 that want I to spend on 3 bottles of the same wine that I want to keep for 7 to 10 years...I know that $350 bucks is not much for 3 bottles of quality red wine. However, if it's possible, I would appreciate your suggestions. What would you buy given those parameters?


Since when did $3.5 Benjamins become not much money. You can bank roll more than three "quality red wines" for that kind of bank. Don't think you have to spend a lot to get great wine. It's easy (easier) to find a great bottle of wine if you have more than $100 to spend, but the fun part of wine is finding bottles just as good for 1/3 or 1/2 that price. Happy hunting. Smile

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