Preferred Attire For A Nice Night Out?

quote:

Originally posted by jorgerunfast:

quote:

Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:
I am the picture taken in Paris, outside of the Celine runway show: listen with the volume up- you will get a good laugh. http://www.nytimes.com/interac...t-feature/index.html

absolutely marvelous! slick!

Thanks! My buddy in Australia found that one night online and woke me up at 3am saying, "You made the NYTimes!" It made me smile. Guess that's the extent of my 15 minutes.

I blame Obama and the media for making me an American slob.

quote:

Originally posted by billhike:
I blame Obama and the media for making me an American slob.

lol

I usually have to wear a suit to work, so I prefer to lose the tie whenever I can. Luckily, other than the private Rainier Club, I know of no other dining place nearby that might require one.
Slacks, dress shirt, and blazer are my preferred choice for fine dining. However, my intimate group of friends always have a dinner around the holidays when some come back to Seattle to visit family. On those occasions, I usually go black tie, and alternate between my black and white tuxedo jackets. The funny thing is, when I excuse myself to use the restroom, I have been mistaken by other diners for a server when wearing my white, and a maitre d' when wearing my black.

quote:

Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:

I am not in any way telling anyone TO wear a suit and tie to dinner- plenty of times when I am not going to a fancy restaurant I keep it casual with merely a sportcoat, but I have NEVER felt uncomfortable wearing one in even a relaxed dinner setting, even when no one else is dressed similarly. I take satisfaction in being myself, and would much rather be the most overdressed than underdressed.

okay good, because, fair warning, I'm on vacation when I see you on thursday. You'd be lucky if I shaved.

You visit NY in the cooler weathers though, i'll be wearing a tie when dinner approaches.

quote:

Originally posted by g-man:

quote:

Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:

I am not in any way telling anyone TO wear a suit and tie to dinner- plenty of times when I am not going to a fancy restaurant I keep it casual with merely a sportcoat, but I have NEVER felt uncomfortable wearing one in even a relaxed dinner setting, even when no one else is dressed similarly. I take satisfaction in being myself, and would much rather be the most overdressed than underdressed.

okay good, because, fair warning, I'm on vacation when I see you on thursday. You'd be lucky if I shaved.

You visit NY in the cooler weathers though, i'll be wearing a tie when dinner approaches.

No worries at all my friend... No one in the bay area gives a damn about the way they dress. SF's idea of fashion is North Face and New Balance.

quote:

SF's idea of fashion is North Face and New Balance

my mommy taught me that it is not nice to say mean things, even if they are true.

G

quote:

Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:

quote:

Originally posted by g-man:

quote:

Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:

I am not in any way telling anyone TO wear a suit and tie to dinner- plenty of times when I am not going to a fancy restaurant I keep it casual with merely a sportcoat, but I have NEVER felt uncomfortable wearing one in even a relaxed dinner setting, even when no one else is dressed similarly. I take satisfaction in being myself, and would much rather be the most overdressed than underdressed.

okay good, because, fair warning, I'm on vacation when I see you on thursday. You'd be lucky if I shaved.

You visit NY in the cooler weathers though, i'll be wearing a tie when dinner approaches.

No worries at all my friend... No one in the bay area gives a damn about the way they dress. SF's idea of fashion is North Face and New Balance.

that and hiking in the muir woods and having to worry about making it back on time, feels a bit odd to me ;-)

I can be a slob on holidays, but being late to an event is one thing I can't stand.

quote:

Originally posted by g-man:
...but being late to an event is one thing I can't stand.

between that, and my preferred attire for a nice night out, i'm not so sure we'd hit it off...

quote:

Originally posted by thirsty man:

quote:

SF's idea of fashion is North Face and New Balance

my mommy taught me that it is not nice to say mean things, even if they are true.

G

You are right Thirsty Man... I'll give myself a time-out.

Being late?

That is a subject for a different thread.

quote:

Originally posted by g-man:
but being late to an event is one thing I can't stand.

I would much rather be under dressed than the douche bag who shows up 20 minutes late and spends half the dinner talking on his/her cell phone.

quote:

Originally posted by jburman82:

quote:

Originally posted by g-man:
but being late to an event is one thing I can't stand.

I would much rather be under dressed than the douche bag who shows up 20 minutes late and spends half the dinner talking on his/her cell phone.

Note to self...

I am very bad when it comes to timing when an event is called for at a person's house, though I have gotten better. At a restaurant... I know things happen, and I can be late, but if I think I'll be more than 5 minutes late I will call the other people to inform them and apologize.

Talking on a cell phone at the dinner table, on the other hand, at a restaurant or at a home, is the height of rudeness, imo. My ex-girlfriend's father used to do this and I would be shocked every single time: how does he not know this is not ok?

As the person who started this thread I will say, for me, I am consistent with how I dress... I do not own a single pair of jeans and I have not bought a t-shirt in the past decade. The flip side of that is that a disturbingly large percentage of my recent clothing purchases has been from the sport section of Brooks Brothers and the last time I wore a tie to something other than a wedding was several years ago. (An fyi: seriously, the 70% silk/ 30% cotton sweater/shirts at Brooks Brothers are on sale half the time and really ridiculously inexpensive for what they are... I do not want to say how many I have, but it is a big number.)

I'm always interested in questions/discussions surrounding sartorial splendour.

Maybe no one wants to say it but it partially depends on the individual - their look, body type, style, etc.

As for me, stylish shoes, dress jeans, button down shirt, sportcoat. But I could also just as easily rock the smoking jacket, a bow tie or scarf - though not all at the same time.

That said, I've never once let how someone else is dressed affect my demeanor or enjoyment of any particular evening out.


To each her own.
h

quote:

Originally posted by GlennK:
I also thought it was interesting that most of the locals were in jeans at 2 and 3 Michelin starred restaurants in Spain and Italy. I think what they consider "dressed up" has evolved into stylish. The US, UK and parts of France seem to be stuck on a suit and tie being dressed up and that's it.

We went to Michel Rostang in Paris last year. I wore a jacket and tie, as did the other male patrons. The women were all dressed beautifully. Two young guys came in in jeans and collared polo shirts and were seated. I found that inappropriate.

As far as late goes, people who are habitually late are inconsiderate and feel their time is more valuable than that of their companions. We won't go to dinner with them if that is hteir norm.

quote:

Originally posted by Board-O:
We went to Michel Rostang in Paris last year. I wore a jacket and tie, as did the other male patrons. The women were all dressed beautifully. Two young guys came in in jeans and collared polo shirts and were seated. I found that inappropriate.

No doubt. Paris is a more formal town for sure. When we went to Taillevent it was the same thing. I had on nice slack, shirt and a jacket. It was about half and half for ties in the room, but no jeans.

Spain is totally different. We went to Arzak and I was the only person with a coat on. Most of the locals were in nice jeans, shirts and sweaters and of course very stylish shoes.

In DC you pretty much see everything. For me a pair of dark dressy jeans (no Gap stone washed ripped jeans) with a long sleeve button shirt tucked in and a decent pair of shoes is good enough and will blend in at 95% of the restaurants. Same outfit with a sweater for fall and a sport jacket in early winter.

I did wear a sports coat and tie to Joel Robouchon, but didn't wear one to E by Jose Andres when I was in Las Vegas.

The last time I wore a jacket in San Diego was at a private club that required it. Jeans? Never to a decent restaurant.

quote:

Originally posted by GlennK:

quote:

Originally posted by Board-O:
We went to Michel Rostang in Paris last year. I wore a jacket and tie, as did the other male patrons. The women were all dressed beautifully. Two young guys came in in jeans and collared polo shirts and were seated. I found that inappropriate.

No doubt. Paris is a more formal town for sure. When we went to Taillevent it was the same thing. I had on nice slack, shirt and a jacket. It was about half and half for ties in the room, but no jeans.

Spain is totally different. We went to Arzak and I was the only person with a coat on. Most of the locals were in nice jeans, shirts and sweaters and of course very stylish shoes.

The michelin starred restaurant I was referring to (where I wore jeans), was in San Sebastian.

There is clearly a difference between Dallas and Houston regarding dress and many other things. Houston is definitely more casual and I would say more relaxed.

Besides elegant dining and business dining, being in a suit is a bit overdressed or for more elderly diners. Jackets with slacks works in many situations these days. I think the jacket with jeans is a bit overdone and doesn't fit with fine dining. Wearing athletic shoes is in very poor taste unless you are being very casual (ie you would be ok wearing tee shirts). At least put on some Top Siders!

I am not a dressy person, but it is ridiculous to see people eating at "nice" restaurants in jeans and t-shirts (no matter how decorative) or tennis shoes.

quote:

Originally posted by wine+art:
Being late?

That is a subject for a different thread.

Agreed! It bugs the crap out of me when my wife does not get ready in time in order to avoid being late. any thing later than 10 minutes deserves a phone call.

quote:

Originally posted by GlennK:

quote:

Originally posted by Board-O:
We went to Michel Rostang in Paris last year. I wore a jacket and tie, as did the other male patrons. The women were all dressed beautifully. Two young guys came in in jeans and collared polo shirts and were seated. I found that inappropriate.

No doubt. Paris is a more formal town for sure. When we went to Taillevent it was the same thing. I had on nice slack, shirt and a jacket. It was about half and half for ties in the room, but no jeans.

Spain is totally different. We went to Arzak and I was the only person with a coat on. Most of the locals were in nice jeans, shirts and sweaters and of course very stylish shoes.

Paris indeed understands style, overall.
Your point of stylish shoes is far too overlooked.

Thank you, Glenn.

Good thread and some good posts.

Agreed, how one is deported and groomed often makes the key difference.

Agreed, time of year and location makes a difference.

Agreed, love to wear some of my bespoke clothing. Fit can make such a difference. A bespoke sportscoat that fits the person perfectly will look far better than an ill fitting Armani, Kiton, etc.

What I think is missing today, for the most part, is respect for your fellow diners. Cell phones were mentioned and this is probably the ultimate sign of that. However, showing up in wrinkled baggy cargo shorts with flip flops at an upscale restaurant, simply shows a lack of respect for the other diners that (presumably) dressed appropriate for the occasion. Today's constant, "Who are you to judge..?" and "It's my right.." have gotten in the way of simply thinking about your fellow human beings.

People just need to think of the social setting and act and dress accordingly.

quote:

Originally posted by winetarelli:

I am very bad when it comes to timing when an event is called for at a person's house, though I have gotten better. At a restaurant... I know things happen, and I can be late, but if I think I'll be more than 5 minutes late I will call the other people to inform them and apologize.

yea at the restaurant it's really just respect and courtesy to inform your guest that you'll be late because things do happen, though sometimes they're an hour and a half late. (though I was in a situation where a friend and I agreed to meet up at a restaurant that was #2 on a ny byob list. Turns out the #2 restaurant changed between the time I looked and when he looked and he doesn't carry a cell phone. That was awkward)

I agree on the house thing though, house events are more of an open window time frame ;-) .. tho at my house you might miss the opening of a few good bottles that usually start such events

quote:

Originally posted by g-man:
it's really just respect and courtesy to inform your guest that you'll be late because things do happen

If it's a recurring problem, it's a lack of respect and courtesy.

quote:

Originally posted by jburman82:

quote:

Originally posted by g-man:
but being late to an event is one thing I can't stand.

I would much rather be under dressed than the douche bag who shows up 20 minutes late and spends half the dinner talking on his/her cell phone.

i promise not to be late for dinner when I meet you in Florida, and no cell phone talk, trust me, texting however is a tad different

no, it isn't

quote:

Originally posted by Chilicat:
. . . However, showing up in wrinkled baggy cargo shorts with flip flops at an upscale restaurant. . .

Did you see me at Ruth Chris last week?

Dressing up for dinner is all well and good but I hardly think it says what kind of person you are. Take someone like myself. I have worn a uniform for over a decade. I only have two suits, one tux and dont invest in clothes at all. I have no need to. I prefer to spend my money on important things like wine. I live in Florida. I wear flip flops EVERYWHERE unless I am in my suit. I wear shorts and flip flops to nice restaraunts in the off season and jeans and flip flops in season.

I dont feel I am disrespecting my fellow diners. I look nice but am never the best dressed in the place. The thing is, I just dont care what other diners think. I am not trying to be too cool here but I dont care. I am not a lawyer of businessman trying to close deals. I am not trying to impress anyone. I'm just there for a nice relaxing dinner. Wearing a coat, tie and closed toes shoes isnt relaxing to me.

quote:

Originally posted by jburman82:

quote:

Originally posted by Chilicat:
. . . However, showing up in wrinkled baggy cargo shorts with flip flops at an upscale restaurant. . .

Did you see me at Ruth Chris last week?

Dressing up for dinner is all well and good but I hardly think it says what kind of person you are. Take someone like myself. I have worn a uniform for over a decade. I only have two suits, one tux and dont invest in clothes at all. I have no need to. I prefer to spend my money on important things like wine. I live in Florida. I wear flip flops EVERYWHERE unless I am in my suit. I wear shorts and flip flops to nice restaraunts in the off season and jeans and flip flops in season.

I dont feel I am disrespecting my fellow diners. I look nice but am never the best dressed in the place. The thing is, I just dont care what other diners think. I am not trying to be too cool here but I dont care. I am not a lawyer of businessman trying to close deals. I am not trying to impress anyone. I'm just there for a nice relaxing dinner. Wearing a coat, tie and closed toes shoes isnt relaxing to me.

i have to admit I frequent a few steakhouses so often, that I've been caught in shorts, flip flops and tshirt in the middle of summer having dinner there.

I have purposefully stayed out of this discussion for the last bit - specifically since TDub and I spent a beers worth of time discussing whether it should be illegal to ride your bike naked.....

I am not a fan of having to wear a suit. That said, I sometimes wear a suit because I want to get dressed up - i just don't like "having" to dress up. I will ditch the tie for any reason at any time. I rarely wear one with friends (weddings and funerals excepted).

At a fine dining establishment, the most casual I will go is dress shoes, dark dressy jeans, button down shirt and a jacket. Many times I will switch the jeans for slacks. I will only wear a suit if I am coming from Court or another matter that already had me in a suit (unless it is supposed to be romantic for my wife - then, I'll wear whatever she wants - which is generally a suit).

I will say I am more inclined to wear a suit now than I was 10 years ago. I believe the main factor is that I started to have my suits made for me, instead of buying off the rack. Now that they "fit" properly (and are made out of better material), I am more comfortable and inclined to wear one more often. If you wear suits and have never had one tailor made for yourself, you should try it.

For some reason, I never did get into the shoes. For me, the main concern is comfort, followed by looks. I guess that is an outgrowth of having a horrible knee and back problems.

to continue my rambling - I do not care how my friends dress when we are out. I am just happy to be with them. I hate being late, however, since I was married and we had our first child, "we" have never been on time. Alone, "I" am rarely late. People on cell phones in fine dining establishments drive me crazy. If you have to take a call (and it does happen), then step outside.

G

quote:

Originally posted by jburman82:

quote:

Originally posted by Chilicat:
. . . However, showing up in wrinkled baggy cargo shorts with flip flops at an upscale restaurant. . .

Did you see me at Ruth Chris last week?

Dressing up for dinner is all well and good but I hardly think it says what kind of person you are. Take someone like myself. I have worn a uniform for over a decade. I only have two suits, one tux and dont invest in clothes at all. I have no need to. I prefer to spend my money on important things like wine. I live in Florida. I wear flip flops EVERYWHERE unless I am in my suit. I wear shorts and flip flops to nice restaraunts in the off season and jeans and flip flops in season.

I dont feel I am disrespecting my fellow diners. I look nice but am never the best dressed in the place. The thing is, I just dont care what other diners think. I am not trying to be too cool here but I dont care. I am not a lawyer of businessman trying to close deals. I am not trying to impress anyone. I'm just there for a nice relaxing dinner. Wearing a coat, tie and closed toes shoes isnt relaxing to me.

I could say much to this but it rather proves what I was saying and it is a pointless argument and I do not wish to get into an exchange of words. As you said, you don't care.

The only thing I will point out is that there is a far wider range of choices than between wrinkled baggy cargo shorts with flip flops and a coat and tie. My post in no way indicated a coat and tie was my expectation of showing respect to one's fellow diners. It did, however, indicate I find it highly unlikely the wrinkled cargo shorts and flip flops do. Putting on a nice pair of jeans and shoes is really not a burdensome social expectation.

quote:

Originally posted by thirsty man:
For some reason, I never did get into the shoes. For me, the main concern is comfort, followed by looks. I guess that is an outgrowth of having a horrible knee and back problems.

Off topic with the thread, but why not go bespoke, just like your suits?

quote:

Originally posted by aml:

quote:

Originally posted by thirsty man:
For some reason, I never did get into the shoes. For me, the main concern is comfort, followed by looks. I guess that is an outgrowth of having a horrible knee and back problems.

Off topic with the thread, but why not go bespoke, just like your suits?

While I know folks with bespoke shoes comparing clothes to shoes for this is not quite the same. Good shoe makers, be they Alden, C&G, Edward Green, Vass have multiple lasts that fit different types of feet. So you can get pretty close "off the rack" as it were. Then you have leather's property of molding itself a little to the individual foot. So basically, you can get pretty darn close and then leather's ability to "break in" takes care of the rest.

quote:

Originally posted by Chilicat:

quote:

Originally posted by jburman82:

quote:

Originally posted by Chilicat:
. . . However, showing up in wrinkled baggy cargo shorts with flip flops at an upscale restaurant. . .

Did you see me at Ruth Chris last week?

Dressing up for dinner is all well and good but I hardly think it says what kind of person you are. Take someone like myself. I have worn a uniform for over a decade. I only have two suits, one tux and dont invest in clothes at all. I have no need to. I prefer to spend my money on important things like wine. I live in Florida. I wear flip flops EVERYWHERE unless I am in my suit. I wear shorts and flip flops to nice restaraunts in the off season and jeans and flip flops in season.

I dont feel I am disrespecting my fellow diners. I look nice but am never the best dressed in the place. The thing is, I just dont care what other diners think. I am not trying to be too cool here but I dont care. I am not a lawyer of businessman trying to close deals. I am not trying to impress anyone. I'm just there for a nice relaxing dinner. Wearing a coat, tie and closed toes shoes isnt relaxing to me.

I could say much to this but it rather proves what I was saying and it is a pointless argument and I do not wish to get into an exchange of words. As you said, you don't care.

The only thing I will point out is that there is a far wider range of choices than between wrinkled baggy cargo shorts with flip flops and a coat and tie. My post in no way indicated a coat and tie was my expectation of showing respect to one's fellow diners. It did, however, indicate I find it highly unlikely the wrinkled cargo shorts and flip flops do. Putting on a nice pair of jeans and shoes is really not a burdensome social expectation.

Chilicat, I just dont feel what I wear shows any kind of respect or disrespect to my fellow diners. Showing up late, talking on cell, getting overly drunk and beligerent all show disrespect. I dont do those.

Sorry, I'm not going to put on jeans until season starts and never closed toe shoes. I just dont find them comfortable.

I will give one caveat. I will get dressed up when on vaction with my wife. Yes, even closed toe shoes.

Also, this will show you guys how much I am into clothes and fashion. What is bespoke?

quote:

Originally posted by thirsty man:
I have purposefully stayed out of this discussion for the last bit - specifically since TDub and I spent a beers worth of time discussing whether it should be illegal to ride your bike naked.....

G

I don't see why it would be illegal to ride your bike naked if I paste an NC-17 sticker on my a$$ for all to see.

I hate neckties. Hermes, Schmermes! The idea of going out to eat and drink then and preparing by tying something around my neck is ludicrous.

PH

quote:

Originally posted by jburman82:
Also, this will show you guys how much I am into clothes and fashion. What is bespoke?

It's a term which now means "custom made" that came from British tailor shops. Essentially it's a shortening of the phrase "been spoken for" as in, a gentleman wants a suit made in a certain cloth, which had then "been spoken for".

The term bespoke has nothing to do with fashion. In fact, it's the complete opposite.

quote:

Originally posted by jburman82:

quote:

Originally posted by Chilicat:

quote:

Originally posted by jburman82:

quote:

Originally posted by Chilicat:
. . . However, showing up in wrinkled baggy cargo shorts with flip flops at an upscale restaurant. . .

Did you see me at Ruth Chris last week?

Dressing up for dinner is all well and good but I hardly think it says what kind of person you are. Take someone like myself. I have worn a uniform for over a decade. I only have two suits, one tux and dont invest in clothes at all. I have no need to. I prefer to spend my money on important things like wine. I live in Florida. I wear flip flops EVERYWHERE unless I am in my suit. I wear shorts and flip flops to nice restaraunts in the off season and jeans and flip flops in season.

I dont feel I am disrespecting my fellow diners. I look nice but am never the best dressed in the place. The thing is, I just dont care what other diners think. I am not trying to be too cool here but I dont care. I am not a lawyer of businessman trying to close deals. I am not trying to impress anyone. I'm just there for a nice relaxing dinner. Wearing a coat, tie and closed toes shoes isnt relaxing to me.

I could say much to this but it rather proves what I was saying and it is a pointless argument and I do not wish to get into an exchange of words. As you said, you don't care.

The only thing I will point out is that there is a far wider range of choices than between wrinkled baggy cargo shorts with flip flops and a coat and tie. My post in no way indicated a coat and tie was my expectation of showing respect to one's fellow diners. It did, however, indicate I find it highly unlikely the wrinkled cargo shorts and flip flops do. Putting on a nice pair of jeans and shoes is really not a burdensome social expectation.

Chilicat, I just dont feel what I wear shows any kind of respect or disrespect to my fellow diners. Showing up late, talking on cell, getting overly drunk and beligerent all show disrespect. I dont do those.

Sorry, I'm not going to put on jeans until season starts and never closed toe shoes. I just dont find them comfortable.

I will give one caveat. I will get dressed up when on vaction with my wife. Yes, even closed toe shoes.

Also, this will show you guys how much I am into clothes and fashion. What is bespoke?

Bespoke is when a tailor or craftsman makes an article of clothing just for you. This is beyond even "made to measure," where they still use a certain amount of modelling, and where you go through multiple fittings.

So, if what you are wearing shows neither respect nor disrespect...baseball hat inside a funeral home? Inside church? To the comfort argument, well, what if you are only comfortable nude? Shirtless? Just unwashed and dirty clothes?

As I said in my first post people feel it is their "right" to wear whatever they want where ever they want. You agreed by saying you do not care what other diners think of you. I am not arguing with your position. In fact, I indicated it is the dominant position in the US right now. So basically, we are in agreement with what most people think and feel over this topic.

I readily admit I am an anachronism in thinking how I chose to present myself shows respect for those around me.

quote:

Originally posted by aml:

quote:

Originally posted by thirsty man:
For some reason, I never did get into the shoes. For me, the main concern is comfort, followed by looks. I guess that is an outgrowth of having a horrible knee and back problems.

Off topic with the thread, but why not go bespoke, just like your suits?

I have gone that route and have not had good luck in finding shoes that are comfortable to wear when I am on my feet for 10 hours a day in trial. I have had better luck trying on 20 pairs and then ordering one from that "line" that is in my size (I am weird 13 E-EE-EEE depending upon maker. I often have to get an insert because of my arch as well). That said, I am not suggesting that I buy gnarly orthopedic shoes only, just that style is not my priority in buying shoes.

quote:

Originally posted by Chilicat:
So, if what you are wearing shows neither respect nor disrespect...baseball hat inside a funeral home? Inside church? To the comfort argument, well, what if you are only comfortable nude? Shirtless? Just unwashed and dirty clothes?

I am simply talking about dining out. For weddings, funerals and church I have to much self respect to show up looking like a bum to someone else's special event.

I dont think we all have a right to wear whatever we want. However, I do think there is more than one way to skin a cat and there is more than one look that is presentable when dining out at a nice place.