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I saw that on the news last night. A reporter interviewed someone and asked if the grade would cause them not to go there. The response "No, I'd still go because you know the food is going to be incredible."
That pretty much sums it up for me as well. While I haven't been there as the one time we tried around lunch time they were closed, it wouldn't cause me to give it a second thought.
That pretty much sums it up for me as well. While I haven't been there as the one time we tried around lunch time they were closed, it wouldn't cause me to give it a second thought.
quote:Originally posted by snipes:
I saw that on the news last night a reporter interviewed someone and asked if the grade would cause them not to go there. The response "No, I'd still go because you know the food is going to be incredible."
That pretty much sums it up for me as well. While I haven't been there as the one time we tried around lunch time they were closed, it wouldn't cause me to give it a second thought.
I am in the other camp. No way would I go. If I am paying $3 for street fare, sure... But $600/person, everything should be perfect. There is no excuse for it not to be- and that includes prep. Because when I am eating street fare, I can make my own determination about the cleanliness of the food- when it is prepared in a kitchen that I can't see, then I will go by the health grade and unless an A, I won't eat there. And considering some other posters' experience at French Laundry in Dec where they basically got surcharged for everything, it will be awhile before I go to a Thomas Keller restaurant outside of Ad Hoc.
quote:Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:quote:Originally posted by snipes:
I saw that on the news last night a reporter interviewed someone and asked if the grade would cause them not to go there. The response "No, I'd still go because you know the food is going to be incredible."
That pretty much sums it up for me as well. While I haven't been there as the one time we tried around lunch time they were closed, it wouldn't cause me to give it a second thought.
I am in the other camp. No way would I go. If I am paying $3 for street fare, sure... But $600/person, everything should be perfect. There is no excuse for it. And considering some other posters' experience at French Laundry in Dec where they basically got surcharged for everything, it will be awhile before I go to a Thomas Keller restaurant outside of Ad Hoc.
Now I agree with you on FL. Haven't been (up until recently it was on my list to hit at some point), but some of the recent posts/comments about their corkage policy left a bad taste in my mouth. Most likely I wouldn't BYO there in the first place, but their wine prices and policies seem a bit unfriendly. I'm happy to pay appropriately for the food, but don't mark the wines up so high that I'm forced to drink average wine with an exquisite meal.
per se hasn't been 300$ in a while btw snipes.
and wine prices are near 4x mark up.
and wine prices are near 4x mark up.
quote:Originally posted by snipes:quote:Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:quote:Originally posted by snipes:
I saw that on the news last night a reporter interviewed someone and asked if the grade would cause them not to go there. The response "No, I'd still go because you know the food is going to be incredible."
That pretty much sums it up for me as well. While I haven't been there as the one time we tried around lunch time they were closed, it wouldn't cause me to give it a second thought.
I am in the other camp. No way would I go. If I am paying $3 for street fare, sure... But $600/person, everything should be perfect. There is no excuse for it. And considering some other posters' experience at French Laundry in Dec where they basically got surcharged for everything, it will be awhile before I go to a Thomas Keller restaurant outside of Ad Hoc.
Now I agree with you on FL. Haven't been (up until recently it was on my list to hit at some point), but some of the recent posts/comments about their corkage policy left a bad taste in my mouth. Most likely I wouldn't BYO there in the first place, but their wine prices and policies seem a bit unfriendly. I'm happy to pay appropriately for the food, but don't mark the wines up so high that I'm forced to drink average wine with an exquisite meal.
I bought a case of 82 Philipponnat CdG for $425/bottle after buyer fee, and they have it on list for $2500... That is just absurd.
quote:Originally posted by g-man:
per se hasn't been 300$ in a while btw snipes.
and wine prices are near 4x mark up.
I can live with 4x.
quote:Originally posted by snipes:quote:Originally posted by g-man:
per se hasn't been 300$ in a while btw snipes.
and wine prices are near 4x mark up.
I can live with 4x.
not if you want a wine that matches the quality of the ofod
quote:Originally posted by g-man:quote:Originally posted by snipes:quote:Originally posted by g-man:
per se hasn't been 300$ in a while btw snipes.
and wine prices are near 4x mark up.
I can live with 4x.
not if you want a wine that matches the quality of the ofod
That is true. I'd be understanding with that type of markup on an $80 or $100 bottle, but after after that it starts getting outside my personal comfort zone and value prop. Now if that's not possible at Per Se, I'm happy to go someplace else as I don't view it as a destination restaurant. I'm sure some of that factored in to our decision to try for lunch time.
My memory is fuzzy as I believe shortly after that the crazy man in the Jaguar picked me up and took me to parts unknown.
Feel a need to chime in here!
EB56 and I went to French Laundry in December. We were joined by TPEWinedrinker during an "after-party." Unfortunately he was unable to join but we'll amend that situation soon enough!
Long story short, as TPE mentioned, we were up-charged for everything:
--Fresh truffles on your risotto: $150
--Upgrade your meat dish to kobe: $175 (or something like that)
Wine recommendations: Sommelier gladly recommended 1 bottle of red and 1 bottle of white at >$1800 per bottle. I considered going with a half bottle of Kongsgaard Judge but that was priced at $275! We ultimately had to give the SOMM a budget that we hoped he could work with
END RESULT:
--Food was great as you would expect from Keller. But I believe the delta between Keller and other up and coming chefs is narrowing.
--I kind of get the 4x mark-up. French Laundry markets itself (or is known as) a dining experience so I think most people don't even care about the markup. I considered it mildly annoying
Re: Per Se . . . have been there 2x. And, yes the food is great but there are other places in NYC that can easily match if not beat Per Se. And, if French Laundry were in NYC, I would be saying the same thing. While French Laundry and Per Se do have different menus, the style is practically identical and decidedly Keller (e.g., fresh ingredients prepared simply yet exquisitely)
EB56 and I went to French Laundry in December. We were joined by TPEWinedrinker during an "after-party." Unfortunately he was unable to join but we'll amend that situation soon enough!
Long story short, as TPE mentioned, we were up-charged for everything:
--Fresh truffles on your risotto: $150
--Upgrade your meat dish to kobe: $175 (or something like that)
Wine recommendations: Sommelier gladly recommended 1 bottle of red and 1 bottle of white at >$1800 per bottle. I considered going with a half bottle of Kongsgaard Judge but that was priced at $275! We ultimately had to give the SOMM a budget that we hoped he could work with
END RESULT:
--Food was great as you would expect from Keller. But I believe the delta between Keller and other up and coming chefs is narrowing.
--I kind of get the 4x mark-up. French Laundry markets itself (or is known as) a dining experience so I think most people don't even care about the markup. I considered it mildly annoying
Re: Per Se . . . have been there 2x. And, yes the food is great but there are other places in NYC that can easily match if not beat Per Se. And, if French Laundry were in NYC, I would be saying the same thing. While French Laundry and Per Se do have different menus, the style is practically identical and decidedly Keller (e.g., fresh ingredients prepared simply yet exquisitely)
quote:Originally posted by snipes:
I saw that on the news last night. A reporter interviewed someone and asked if the grade would cause them not to go there. The response "No, I'd still go because you know the food is going to be incredible."
That pretty much sums it up for me as well. While I haven't been there as the one time we tried around lunch time they were closed, it wouldn't cause me to give it a second thought.
Even if you got sick?
quote:Originally posted by E A Bowers [FlWino]:quote:Originally posted by snipes:
I saw that on the news last night. A reporter interviewed someone and asked if the grade would cause them not to go there. The response "No, I'd still go because you know the food is going to be incredible."
That pretty much sums it up for me as well. While I haven't been there as the one time we tried around lunch time they were closed, it wouldn't cause me to give it a second thought.
Even if you got sick?
Well no, if I got sick I wouldn't go back, nor would I go if I thought I would get sick. It comes down to do I think they run a consistently unsanitary kitchen, and my answer is no I don't.
This all begs the question . . . what did they get the "C" for?
Is this a mouse-droppings, cockroach thing. Poor refrigeration thing . . . line chef not washing his/her hands thing.
That all said, do you think this is a sign that Keller is stretched too thin? From everything I have read about him, this dude is a perfectionist
Is this a mouse-droppings, cockroach thing. Poor refrigeration thing . . . line chef not washing his/her hands thing.
That all said, do you think this is a sign that Keller is stretched too thin? From everything I have read about him, this dude is a perfectionist
quote:Originally posted by Parcival:
This all begs the question . . . what did they get the "C" for?
Is this a mouse-droppings, cockroach thing. Poor refrigeration thing . . . line chef not washing his/her hands thing.
That all said, do you think this is a sign that Keller is stretched too thin? From everything I have read about him, this dude is a perfectionist
"Violations listed in the latest health inspection included no hand-washing facility or soap in the food-prep area, hot and cold items held in improper temperatures, and eating or drinking in the food-prep area and tobacco use, all of which qualify as "critical" violations, according to the records."
I don't really understand the criticalality (sp?) of the violations.
It sounds to me like empty soap dispenser, raw meat at room temperature, and someone smoking in between lunch and dinner service. I think the devil is in the details (which we don't have), and people are making a big deal because it's Per Se.
It sounds to me like empty soap dispenser, raw meat at room temperature, and someone smoking in between lunch and dinner service. I think the devil is in the details (which we don't have), and people are making a big deal because it's Per Se.
quote:Originally posted by DoubleD:
I don't really understand the criticalality (sp?) of the violations.
It sounds to me like empty soap dispenser, raw meat at room temperature, and someone smoking in between lunch and dinner service. I think the devil is in the details (which we don't have), and people are making a big deal because it's Per Se.
No hand washing facility in a food prep area is serious business... Plus, it had been a recurring problem according to the article as they were also dinged heavily in both 2011 and 2013, but cleaned up their act before the official grade.
The low grade for things like they're stating doesn't bother me. I'd still eat there. Using spoiled food, pest infestations, etc. are more of a concern for me. I leave meats on the counter in my house sometimes for quite a time - you're not going to develop salmonella in a chicken breast in 1.5 hours.
quote:Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:quote:Originally posted by Parcival:
This all begs the question . . . what did they get the "C" for?
Is this a mouse-droppings, cockroach thing. Poor refrigeration thing . . . line chef not washing his/her hands thing.
That all said, do you think this is a sign that Keller is stretched too thin? From everything I have read about him, this dude is a perfectionist
"Violations listed in the latest health inspection included no hand-washing facility or soap in the food-prep area, hot and cold items held in improper temperatures, and eating or drinking in the food-prep area and tobacco use, all of which qualify as "critical" violations, according to the records."
those are non critical violations
the major ones they got dinged on
1) Hot food item not held at or above 140º F.
2) Cold food item held above 41º F (smoked fish and reduced oxygen packaged foods above 38 ºF) except during necessary preparation.
ny has a "ding" system
major violations are 8-12 points i believe
minors are 2-6 points
the two above are what nailed them with i think 24 pts of violation
quote:Originally posted by g-man:quote:Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:quote:Originally posted by Parcival:
This all begs the question . . . what did they get the "C" for?
Is this a mouse-droppings, cockroach thing. Poor refrigeration thing . . . line chef not washing his/her hands thing.
That all said, do you think this is a sign that Keller is stretched too thin? From everything I have read about him, this dude is a perfectionist
"Violations listed in the latest health inspection included no hand-washing facility or soap in the food-prep area, hot and cold items held in improper temperatures, and eating or drinking in the food-prep area and tobacco use, all of which qualify as "critical" violations, according to the records."
those are non critical violations
the major ones they got dinged on
1) Hot food item not held at or above 140º F.
2) Cold food item held above 41º F (smoked fish and reduced oxygen packaged foods above 38 ºF) except during necessary preparation.
ny has a "ding" system
major violations are 8-12 points i believe
minors are 2-6 points
the two above are what nailed them with i think 24 pts of violation
Sounds like we all need to arrange an offline !
The $150 corkage already had me a bit turned off to this place. 11 Madison it is.
quote:Originally posted by Parcival:
Feel a need to chime in here!
EB56 and I went to French Laundry in December. We were joined by TPEWinedrinker during an "after-party." Unfortunately he was unable to join but we'll amend that situation soon enough!
Meadowood for sure next time we are in Napa.
I'm not sure how rating systems compare, but in LA some of our favorite restaurants have occasionally gotten a "B" and we have no problem eating there. But a "C", never.
while $2500 is absurd, $425/btl is a price for this wine that I haven't seen in years. Well done, TPE!quote:Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:
I bought a case of 82 Philipponnat CdG for $425/bottle after buyer fee, and they have it on list for $2500... That is just absurd.
quote:I am in the other camp. No way would I go. If I am paying $3 for street fare, sure... But $600/person, everything should be perfect.
This is where I think Americans are too sensitive.
Look, the chef is going to be a hard working guy. So does he have an EZ-Pee? If so, check. Why should he have to step out of the kitchen? Or go in the sink during the most busy time? They can dump the EZ-Pee when the sink isn't so full of dishes. What do you thing the food-truck guys do? Or the newsstand guys who give you your change with their grimy little hands?
Have the prep cooks washed this morning? If so, check. Why should they keep washing their hands all day long? That's bad for the skin.
Are there mouse droppings in the kitchen? Or are there actual mice?
Really?
Are you sure they aren't just baby rats who lost their way from the subway?
And are traps set out? If so, check. The traps mean at least the place is doing something.
Are there cockroaches?
If so, are some Roach Motels or D-Con set out? If so, check. If Muhammad Ali said D-Con is the way to go, who am I to argue? Kills roaches dead!
People just get too worked up over unimportant things.
Sheesh.
Now go pay your $1000 bill for dinner.
Perfection is for gods.
BTW, next time you're in France, especially at a nice restaurant, go to the restroom and check out the "Turkish" toilet. Two footprints and a hole in the floor. First time I saw one of those was one of the most upsetting days of my life.
quote:BTW, next time you're in France, especially at a nice restaurant, go to the restroom and check out the "Turkish" toilet. Two footprints and a hole in the floor. First time I saw one of those was one of the most upsetting days of my life.
I've seen lots of Turkish toilets, but most have been in Turkey. Can't recall going into even a nice bistro in Paris (or anywhere else in France) and seeing one. Central Italy and parts of Spain, maybe. But never in France that I can recall.
As for Per Se... I would probably choose Daniel over it anyway...
quote:Originally posted by winetarelli:quote:BTW, next time you're in France, especially at a nice restaurant, go to the restroom and check out the "Turkish" toilet. Two footprints and a hole in the floor. First time I saw one of those was one of the most upsetting days of my life.
I've seen lots of Turkish toilets, but most have been in Turkey. Can't recall going into even a nice bistro in Paris (or anywhere else in France) and seeing one. Central Italy and parts of Spain, maybe. But never in France that I can recall.
As for Per Se... I would probably choose Daniel over it anyway...
Some of the small bistros on side streets, older establishments still have the Turkish toilets. Just have to watch where you step.
quote:Originally posted by winetarelli:quote:BTW, next time you're in France, especially at a nice restaurant, go to the restroom and check out the "Turkish" toilet. Two footprints and a hole in the floor. First time I saw one of those was one of the most upsetting days of my life.
I've seen lots of Turkish toilets, but most have been in Turkey. Can't recall going into even a nice bistro in Paris (or anywhere else in France) and seeing one. Central Italy and parts of Spain, maybe. But never in France that I can recall.
The only one I ever saw was in the train station in Milan about 20 years ago.
quote:Originally posted by GregT:quote:I am in the other camp. No way would I go. If I am paying $3 for street fare, sure... But $600/person, everything should be perfect.
This is where I think Americans are too sensitive.
Look, the chef is going to be a hard working guy. So does he have an EZ-Pee? If so, check. Why should he have to step out of the kitchen? Or go in the sink during the most busy time? They can dump the EZ-Pee when the sink isn't so full of dishes. What do you thing the food-truck guys do? Or the newsstand guys who give you your change with their grimy little hands?
Have the prep cooks washed this morning? If so, check. Why should they keep washing their hands all day long? That's bad for the skin.
Are there mouse droppings in the kitchen? Or are there actual mice?
Really?
Are you sure they aren't just baby rats who lost their way from the subway?
And are traps set out? If so, check. The traps mean at least the place is doing something.
Are there cockroaches?
If so, are some Roach Motels or D-Con set out? If so, check. If Muhammad Ali said D-Con is the way to go, who am I to argue? Kills roaches dead!
People just get too worked up over unimportant things.
Sheesh.
Now go pay your $1000 bill for dinner.
Perfection is for gods.
I don't get most of this post, nor your signature line either.
Sometimes GregT gets his tongue so firmly planted in his cheek that it seems like he's got a plug of Red Man in there...
As far as his sig, it originated from a "conversation" between indybob, Adam10 and some goofball named Mr Cabernet
:
Clicky....
PH
As far as his sig, it originated from a "conversation" between indybob, Adam10 and some goofball named Mr Cabernet
:Clicky....
PH
quote:Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
As far as his sig, it originated from a "conversation" between indybob, Adam10 and some goofball named Mr Cabernet
PH
I'd forgotten all about that exchange. Thanks for the link to memory lane, PH
quote:Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
Sometimes GregT gets his tongue so firmly planted in his cheek that it seems like he's got a plug of Red Man in there...
As far as his sig, it originated from a "conversation" between indybob, Adam10 and some goofball named Mr Cabernet
Clicky....
PH