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71 replies

Opinion on store jacking up price after an inquiry

M machineMember
Twice in the last 2 weeks this has happened to me. First, I found a wine I was interested in, listed at $49.95 on wine searcher and the store's website. I wanted to confirm that the store had the red (and not the blanc) and how many bottles they had, so I sent an inquiry. No response. I checked back a few days later, and the price was $57.95 (*NOTE that at the time I checked back, I did not recall that the original price on this site was $49.95 -- I had been looking on a few sites for this wine, when I saw the $57.95 I assumed that was the price this store had when I originally inquired; when I went back and checked my e-mails and found that I still had the web-page for the site open on my computer at home, I confirmed that the price had been listed at $49.95 a few days earlier). I again sent an inquiry through their online indicating I wanted to purchase and wanted some info, again I got no response. A few days later, I decided that I would send one more inquiry, and if they did not respond I would just order it (and indicate in the memo portion of my order that I only wanted the wine if it was the red version). No response that night, so the next day i went to order. Price had been raised to $67.95. I was extremely annoyed. This was not a recently released or in-demand wine at all. The other listings that I had seen for the wine had not changed, no inventory had disappeared from the other sites that I was looking at. It seemed to me that this store had seen that I had expressed interest and instead of responding to my inquiries had increased the price.

Then in the last week, I again searched for a MUCH higher priced item that I had been looking at for some time. I found it listed on winezap, wine searcher, and the store's website at price X. I phoned the store, the store confirmed the price to me, I expressed my interest and said I would likely order within a few days. I then e-mailed a question to the person to whom I had spoken at this store, asking for confirmation of certain details (I wanted confirmation IN WRITING of these details, because of the extremely high price of this item), and said that once they confirmed back I would let them know within a week if I could buy it. So, I certainly did not order it or say that I was 100% going to order it, but I was pretty clear on the phone that I wanted it and in my e-mail that I was interested once they confirmed the details in writing to me. Well, the person did not respond to my e-mail (sent on Wednesday) which annoyed me, and while I was browsing some other items, I checked the item again (they had 4 in stock when I called (that number was not listed on the website), this was something that had been listed for almost 1 year, and the price that this retailer had was similar to the prices that I had seen at other retailers over the past year). Shockingly, they had raised the price of this item by 62.5%. I just e-mailed the company, will wait for a response and then post the item and their response.

How would you feel if a store had an item in stock for a long time, you called them to say you were interested in the item, and they then jacked up the price by 62.5% before answering the question that you wanted an answer to before you purchased?
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E enoMember
I had that happen to me once, but with a local retail store. While shopping, I came across a wine that was on special. Unfortunately, the store was out of stock, so I asked the clerk if I could order a case at the advertised price. She said yes and ordered the case. A week later, the store called me and I went in to pick it up. They tried to ring it up at a price that was comparably higher than the advertised special. They tried to convince me that they could not give me the lower price because it was last weeks price. They finally gave in but acted as though they were doing me a huge favor. The bottom line is that retailers need to honor the agreement they made with the customer at the time of ordering/purchasing.

Machine, in your case, the merchant probably did not feel they were obligated in any way since you were not willing to give them a firm order (e.g. credit card). They probably get many inquiries (window shoppers) that are not willing to commit – not saying this was you, but your indecisive commitment may have lead them to believe you were not serious.
D differentdaveMember
I would first have to question you, machine. Why would you ever do business with someone or some company which you felt was unethical or burned you in the past? If the wine shop increased prices greatly over a very short period of time, it was for a reason. I assume a few points in next thought (you have a car and you live somewhere where there is more than one wine shop within 20 miles).
Why wouldn't you as a consumer, go to a different establishment. I have travel twice as far t avoid doing business with someone or I have sometimes had to pay a little more because of my principles, but so bet it. Would rather not deal with establishments like the one you mention versus saving a few dollars or a few minutes. Maybe its the place I am in my life (Married, whose rushing home) but this is such a no brainier and non-issue.
M machineMember
quote:
Originally posted by differentdave:
I would first have to question you, machine. Why would you ever do business with someone or some company which you felt was unethical or burned you in the past? If the wine shop increased prices greatly over a very short period of time, it was for a reason. I assume a few points in next thought (you have a car and you live somewhere where there is more than one wine shop within 20 miles).
Why wouldn't you as a consumer, go to a different establishment. I have travel twice as far t avoid doing business with someone or I have sometimes had to pay a little more because of my principles, but so bet it. Would rather not deal with establishments like the one you mention versus saving a few dollars or a few minutes. Maybe its the place I am in my life (Married, whose rushing home) but this is such a no brainier and non-issue.


Maybe I am misinterpreting your post Dave, but to clarify this was 2 different stores. The second store is (to my knowledge) a much larger and well established business, and the item in question was not completely described on their website. I understand I had not completed the transaction from my end (i.e. had not ordered and had not made it 100% clear in my e-mail that I was going to order, though in my phone call in which I spoke to the store's Futures consultant I think my intention was far more clear). This is a bit of a specialty item, and I did need confirmation of something in writing prior to purchase. I do not believe that this was an item that they had to (or could) re-order, nor was it likely an item that they ever had a large supply of or were likely to get a number of inquiries on. I will post more details once the store responds to me and maybe this will be more clear, but again I did not actually order this item from the store, but did express a strong interest in ordering the item if they clarified certain details in writing to me, and instead of clarifying the details in writing, they failed to respond to me e-mail (even though it was sent directly to the person to whom I spoke) and significantly increased the price. I will let the store comment on what their reasoning was and provide that detail accordingly so that others can make their own decision on whether the store behaved in an ethical manner or not.
K ksc02Member
Machine: Stores reserve the right to modify prices at any given moment, and you'll commonly see this with wine pricing. It's very much a supply/demand driven commodity. I've ordered something in the past and was notified it was 'no longer available', only to show a week later at double the price +. Frankly, if you'd reserved it with a cc you'd have a beef. Until then, unfortunately, you've got no argument. Lesson learned. If you want it, get it.

Honestly, you're inquiry may have inspired them to compare their pricing on W-S and see that, indeed, they were 'under market' and they 'adjusted'. Almost all websites reserve the right to 'confirm' pricing and availability of an item with a follow up email. Again, lesson learned and adjust. Wink
J jeffleveMember
quote:
Originally posted by Machine:

Then in the last week, I again searched for a MUCH higher priced item that I had been looking at for some time. I found it listed on winezap, wine searcher, and the store's website at price X. I phoned the store, the store confirmed the price to me, I expressed my interest and said I would likely order within a few days. I then e-mailed a question to the person to whom I had spoken at this store, asking for confirmation of certain details (I wanted confirmation IN WRITING of these details, because of the extremely high price of this item), and said that once they confirmed back I would let them know within a week if I could buy it. So, I certainly did not order it or say that I was 100% going to order it,


Asking a question about a wine has no meaning. Saying you are thinking about it has no merit. If you want something for a specific price, buy it. The store, or stores are not at fault on this.
S steveyMember
You snooze you lose. A few months ago I saw the Sea Smoke Southing on a site with about 2 cases in inventory and the next day when I wanted to order, it was all gone. I hesitated and lost the opportunity. My fault, end of story. It was Sea Smoke after all.

Your descriptions are pretty vague. What wines were you trying to buy? You say the first wine was not "in demand" but yet the price went up twice in a short time, so it would seem you were wrong. But you won't name the wine, so all we can do is guess.

Then the 2nd wine of price X (!??) you say you found it on Winezap last week and then later in the same paragraph, you claim that the wine was listed for a year. How do you know it was listed for a year if you just found it on Winezap last week? Again, what is the wine and what was the price?

Without no details and just vague claims, all that can really be said is you snooze you lose. C'mon, I know you weren't born yesterday, just saying you will "let them know within a week if I could buy it" means absolutely nothing. You need to show them the money!
T torbMember
This sort of thing is very rare in Australia. Why? Because consumers will not put up with that sort of behaviour and if it happens, they would tell everyone they knew about the store trying to "rip them off."

In the original situations named in the first post, the majority of stores would honour the lower price.

In eno's case about the wine being ordered and the price not honoured, in Oz we have consumer legislation that covers that sort of thing. The store has to honour the price if they say they will do so, no ifs buts or maybes. They can say sorry the stock is all sold, but once they say will will order it, the price is locked in.
M machineMember
quote:
Originally posted by Stevey:
You snooze you lose. A few months ago I saw the Sea Smoke Southing on a site with about 2 cases in inventory and the next day when I wanted to order, it was all gone. I hesitated and lost the opportunity. My fault, end of story. It was Sea Smoke after all.

Your descriptions are pretty vague. What wines were you trying to buy? You say the first wine was not "in demand" but yet the price went up twice in a short time, so it would seem you were wrong. But you won't name the wine, so all we can do is guess.

Then the 2nd wine of price X (!??) you say you found it on Winezap last week and then later in the same paragraph, you claim that the wine was listed for a year. How do you know it was listed for a year if you just found it on Winezap last week? Again, what is the wine and what was the price?

Without no details and just vague claims, all that can really be said is you snooze you lose. C'mon, I know you weren't born yesterday, just saying you will "let them know within a week if I could buy it" means absolutely nothing. You need to show them the money!


I will provide details once the guy I spoke to responds to my e-mail. This was an expensive product that several stores had for sale for a long time for the same price, I found it on winezap and wine searcher a long time ago and it remained there because the store continued to have inventory of this item. I do not think that they sold out of the item and had to re-order at a higher price from a wholesaler, I think that they had a low inventory of a very slow moving item for a very long time, over time the value increased but the price that they were selling it for did not increase, when I made my inquiry they noticed this (or simply noticed that they had a potential buyer) and (a) did not respond to the e-mail that I sent to a particular person after I had spoken to that person on the phone to verify certain information, and (b) raised the price.

I have e-mailed many stores indicating interest in many items, maybe I have been really lucky in getting responses, but I have found that if I contact someone indicating that I want to buy something, they generally respond to me quite quickly. The 2 cases in which stores have not done so are the 2 examples that I have provided, in which the stores (a) did not respond to my written requests, and (b) increased the prices after I had indicated that I was interested in buying the particular product. I am not suggesting that either store did anything illegal, but this is not a running out of inventory and having to reorder, or someone got there first and the product sold out issue...it is one in which I finally decided that I wanted a product, called a store to confirm inventory, they confirmed inventory and price and details over the phone, I told the salesperson that I would likely buy the product, I decided that to be safe I should get confirmation of the details of the product in writing, I did happen to mention in the follow up e-mail that I would likely decide within a week (much weaker language than I used in my phone call re. my intention to buy), but rather than respond to the e-mail I sent 5 days ago now, they incrased the price by 62.5%.

I understand that they are allowed to increase the price whenever they want, I understand that they could use inquiries like mine to be able to gouge people once they find out people are interested in the product (and again from what I recall they have had this product listed for a long time at the price at which I once again noticed it), but has anyone had this happen before and would you ever shop again at a store that appeared to do this to you?

Maybe once I post the actual product and store name the situation will be a little more clear.
M machineMember
quote:
Originally posted by TORB:
This sort of thing is very rare in Australia. Why? Because consumers will not put up with that sort of behaviour and if it happens, they would tell everyone they knew about the store trying to "rip them off."

In the original situations named in the first post, the majority of stores would honour the lower price.

In eno's case about the wine being ordered and the price not honoured, in Oz we have consumer legislation that covers that sort of thing. The store has to honour the price if they say they will do so, no ifs buts or maybes. They can say sorry the stock is all sold, but once they say will will order it, the price is locked in.


This also could not happen in Ontario, Canada because of the way our liquor monopoly the LCBO is run. All products purchased from all Agents are assigned a particular price and item #. Those items remain at that price unless they go on sale; the prices are not increased. If the LCBO orders additional stock and that stock has a different price, even if from the same Agents, those products will be assigned new product numbers to go with the new prices. If there are remaining bottles of the original orders and bottles from the new orders on the shelf, you will find the same bottles sitting beside eachother at different prices. They do this because of their return policy -- if I return a bottle of wine, I will get back what I paid for it, no more, no less (if I have a receipt); if I do not have a receipt and I want to exchange it, I will get the value of the wine as it remains in their inventory system, which will be the original price or a lower price if the product has subsequently been discounted. I would not have been able to buy Latour 2003 on futures at $435 and return or exchange it now for $2000 or whatever the current price is at the LCBO because the bottles currently available would have a different product number. This does create the absurd result of the same bottles sitting beside eachother on the shelf sometimes having vastly different prices, but given their return policy, the alternative would be that I could speculate on wine and then return it later for more money than I paid for it.
T torbMember
One other thing I should have mentioned. We don't have a monopoly (like Canada) or a 3 tier system like the US and there are no dominatnt wholesalers lining the pockets of politicians with campagin brides/contributions.

We have genuine free trade in wine and you can buy wine online from anywhere in the country and have it delivered to any location with no drama. As long as its paid with by a credit card, proof of age isn't even required.
purplehazepurplehazeMember
quote:
Originally posted by TORB:
We have genuine free trade in wine and you can buy wine online from anywhere in the country and have it delivered to any location with no drama.


TORB...

What's the deal with European wines in Oz? I ran a WineSearcher query on several chateaux from Bordeaux, some Rhone, Champagne and others and was blown away by either the lack of availability or extremely high pricing.

PH
M machineMember
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
quote:
Originally posted by TORB:
We have genuine free trade in wine and you can buy wine online from anywhere in the country and have it delivered to any location with no drama.


TORB...

What's the deal with European wines in Oz? I ran a WineSearcher query on several chateaux from Bordeaux, some Rhone, Champagne and others and was blown away by either the lack of availability or extremely high pricing.

PH


PH, have you done the same type of search north of the border? Huge markups, almost no availability of any mature wines. I imagine that a very large number of Canadian wine lovers purchase in the US for storage just across the border so they can make frequent short trips to pick up wine (which is controlled of course by the $400 customs limit with a 48 hour trip required and a max. of 2 750 ml bottles of wine brought back across the border). I have bought a fair number in the US for storage in NYC, Feb. will be my 3rd trip down in less than 10 months, get 6 bottles our of storage each time, 4 to bring back (2 each), 1 to drink in the hotel room, 1 to bring to a BYOB restaurant. Just got some 2000 Evangile for $225, maybe not a great bargain, but costs $695 per bottle at the gov't monopoly in Ontario. Average markup is between 40 and 100% per bottle, comparing US prices to Ontario prices.
purplehazepurplehazeMember
I've known for a long time the inequities you folks suffer trying to get European wines and have occasionally noted the apparent advantage you have in getting some of the Oz stuff.

I haven't heard anyone from above the border touting their "genuine free trade," status however, and I'm wondering if TORB's claim applies solely to their domestic stuff or if his claim to free trade applies to wines from outside Australia as well.

PH
M machineMember
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
I've known for a long time the inequities you folks suffer trying to get European wines and have occasionally noted the apparent advantage you have in getting some of the Oz stuff.

I haven't heard anyone from above the border touting their "genuine free trade," status however, and I'm wondering if TORB's claim applies solely to their domestic stuff or if his claim to free trade applies to wines from outside Australia as well.

PH


I know that we also don't seem to get any bargains for wines produced in the US, even with the moves in our currencies over the last year (and I understand that pricing agreements may have been set prior to these moves, and that the current currency climate may not be reflected in prices for some time). I just got a call from the agent that brings in Diamond Creek Volcanic Hill cab, price was about double the price that I have seen it offered south of the border. Painful.
M machineMember
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
Oh well.........I'm sure that you can get great prices on Canadian wine!! Razz

PH


Not really, I cannot believe how expensive it is...better bargains can be had purchasing wines from just about anywhere else (any country that makes good wine I mean). Very sad. Ice wine is good though, if you like that stuff (I do). Have also had some BC wines that I would not have pegged as Canadian. But I am still a noob with all of this, so really not sure if my tastes are in line with experienced wine drinkers...just have not had many chances to drink properly aged quality wine.
T torbMember
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
What's the deal with European wines in Oz? I ran a WineSearcher query on several chateaux from Bordeaux, some Rhone, Champagne and others and was blown away by either the lack of availability or extremely high pricing.

PH

PH,

Did you run winesearcher or the pro version? If it was the non pro version it shows stuff all.

In terms of price, there is a 43% tax on wine in Oz that applies to local and imported wines, so that makes the imported stuff expensive.

I was referring to "free trade" within Australia (although foreign wines are not penalised tax wise,) without the bloody stupid restrictions you have been certain states.
A aussieMember
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:

TORB...

What's the deal with European wines in Oz? I ran a WineSearcher query on several chateaux from Bordeaux, some Rhone, Champagne and others and was blown away by either the lack of availability or extremely high pricing.

PH


PH, you can get just about any Bordeaux of note if you know where to look - I get mine en primeur (easier to secure an allocation of what you want) from a local importer who deals mostly with European wines. Prices are certainly higher than what you pay in the States, though that's predominantly a result of our ridiculous "Wine Equalisation Tax" (read bloody Government rip-off) As an example, I usually buy Leoville Barton most vintages at around $80 US a bottle ('01,'02,'04).

Rhones and Champagne are also easy to get, with a good range of domaines from various chain stores and importers/small retailers. You just need to know where to go.
I instantaccessMember
Machine,

Price (in the US, at least) is whatever the buyer and seller agree on. If I recall correctly, an advertisement is not an offer, it is an invitation to you, the buyer, to make an offer. If a merchant pulls any nonsense when you offer to pay the advertised price, your recourse is to find a better merchant. It sounds harsh, but that is the market (unless a state has enacted any "consumer protection" laws).

With regard to eno's situation, simple contract law would hold that if buyer and seller orally agreed (or agreed in writing) on the price at the time the order was placed, that price controls regardless of what the merchant says when the wine is delivered. No government regulation is needed to deal with it; it's a breach of contract if the merchant will not deliver at the agreed upon price.
Last edited by instantaccess
M machineMember
quote:
Originally posted by Instant Access:
Machine,

Price (in the US, at least) is whatever the buyer and seller agree on. If I recall correctly, an advertisement is not an offer, it is an invitation to you, the buyer, to make an offer. If a merchant pulls any nonsense when you offer to pay the advertised price, your recourse is to find a better merchant. It sounds harsh, but that is the market (unless a state has enacted any "consumer protection" laws).

With regard to eno's situation, simple contract law would hold that if buyer and seller orally agreed (or agreed in writing) on the price at the time the order was placed, that price controls regardless of what the merchant says when the wine is delivered. No government regulation is needed to deal with it; it's a breach of contract if the merchant will not deliver at the agreed upon price.


I understand the concept of offer and acceptance. I understand that on this very expensive and slow moving item, if a potential customer expressed a very strong interest in purchasing that item when asking a question to the seller, that seller could then legally increase the price of that item prior to a purchase happening, leaving the potential customer with a choice of paying more money or not buying. My question was in no way related to these concepts, I thought I had made that pretty clear in my prior posts. I called the store, spoke to two different people that confirmed their inventory and price, and had to speak to the futures consultant to confirm certain details about the item. I wanted confirmation in writing, so I then e-mailed the person to whom I had spoken. He did not respond to me. In fact, I have made follow up inquiries to their customer service, they said that they would forward those inquiries to the futures consultant today, and he has still not responded to me. How many of you have expressed interest in purchasing an $8,000 item, have spoken to someone at the store about purchasing that item, asked that person for some further detail on that item, and then sent a follow up e-mail to that person so that the details could be confirmed in writing, only to have that person not respond to you? Does this sound like typical behaviour of a person/store that is interested in selling an $8,000 item? Sure seemed odd to me, until I later checked their website and found that they had raised the price to $13,000. I think there is close to a 0% chance that the store sold out of the $8,000 item in question (they had 4 in inventory when I called on Tuesday of last week) and had to reorder at a much higher price from a wholesaler. In fact I doubt that they could reorder the item from a wholesaler if they wanted to, at least this is what I have been told by another very large retailer. My belief is that they jacked up the price on the 4 inventory items that were advertised for sale at $8,000 after I inquired and expressed my interest, and to boot they did not provide any response to my written inquiries (at least the futures consultant to whom I spoke did not respond to my direct e-mails yet...perhaps he was away but this leaves a bad taste in my mouth). I dont care whether what they did was legal (i.e. I accept that it was legal), my inquiry is whether you think that this is ethical and whether you would do business with a company that appeared to have done what this store appears to have done. I will give the store a chance to respond to me before I post the name of the store and the actual item in question. Do you think that I should refrain from posting the name of the store and the e-mails that went back and forth? I have no interest in posting any details that are not factual.

There are lots of sellers/resellers out there with a lot of one or two bottle inventories for items that are in demand. Many do not have online order systems, you have to e-mail them to place an order. If you express your interest in an e-mail and ask about ordering and they then say sorry the price is 62.5% higher than what was listed, would you shop from them again? Seems that they are open to do this, but I would not waste time with that type of retailer after such an incident (unless it was blatantly obvious that the price on the site was wrong...but I don't really want to deal with sites that have incorrect prices either).
J jeffleveMember
quote:
Originally posted by Machine:
quote:
Originally posted by Instant Access:
Machine,

Price (in the US, at least) is whatever the buyer and seller agree on. If I recall correctly, an advertisement is not an offer, it is an invitation to you, the buyer, to make an offer. If a merchant pulls any nonsense when you offer to pay the advertised price, your recourse is to find a better merchant. It sounds harsh, but that is the market (unless a state has enacted any "consumer protection" laws).

With regard to eno's situation, simple contract law would hold that if buyer and seller orally agreed (or agreed in writing) on the price at the time the order was placed, that price controls regardless of what the merchant says when the wine is delivered. No government regulation is needed to deal with it; it's a breach of contract if the merchant will not deliver at the agreed upon price.


I understand the concept of offer and acceptance. I understand that on this very expensive and slow moving item, if a potential customer expressed a very strong interest in purchasing that item when asking a question to the seller, that seller could then legally increase the price of that item prior to a purchase happening, leaving the potential customer with a choice of paying more money or not buying. My question was in no way related to these concepts, I thought I had made that pretty clear in my prior posts. I called the store, spoke to two different people that confirmed their inventory and price, and had to speak to the futures consultant to confirm certain details about the item. I wanted confirmation in writing, so I then e-mailed the person to whom I had spoken. He did not respond to me. In fact, I have made follow up inquiries to their customer service, they said that they would forward those inquiries to the futures consultant today, and he has still not responded to me. How many of you have expressed interest in purchasing an $8,000 item, have spoken to someone at the store about purchasing that item, asked that person for some further detail on that item, and then sent a follow up e-mail to that person so that the details could be confirmed in writing, only to have that person not respond to you? Does this sound like typical behaviour of a person/store that is interested in selling an $8,000 item? Sure seemed odd to me, until I later checked their website and found that they had raised the price to $13,000. I think there is close to a 0% chance that the store sold out of the $8,000 item in question (they had 4 in inventory when I called on Tuesday of last week) and had to reorder at a much higher price from a wholesaler. In fact I doubt that they could reorder the item from a wholesaler if they wanted to, at least this is what I have been told by another very large retailer. My belief is that they jacked up the price on the 4 inventory items that were advertised for sale at $8,000 after I inquired and expressed my interest, and to boot they did not provide any response to my written inquiries (at least the futures consultant to whom I spoke did not respond to my direct e-mails yet...perhaps he was away but this leaves a bad taste in my mouth). I dont care whether what they did was legal (i.e. I accept that it was legal), my inquiry is whether you think that this is ethical and whether you would do business with a company that appeared to have done what this store appears to have done. I will give the store a chance to respond to me before I post the name of the store and the actual item in question. Do you think that I should refrain from posting the name of the store and the e-mails that went back and forth? I have no interest in posting any details that are not factual.

There are lots of sellers/resellers out there with a lot of one or two bottle inventories for items that are in demand. Many do not have online order systems, you have to e-mail them to place an order. If you express your interest in an e-mail and ask about ordering and they then say sorry the price is 62.5% higher than what was listed, would you shop from them again? Seems that they are open to do this, but I would not waste time with that type of retailer after such an incident (unless it was blatantly obvious that the price on the site was wrong...but I don't really want to deal with sites that have incorrect prices either).


If you wanted the item, you should have stepped up and paid for it. The retailer did nothing wrong. You waited and lost out. Next time you want something, buy it and you will not have the same problem.
M machineMember
quote:
Originally posted by Pomerollvr:

If you wanted the item, you should have stepped up and paid for it. The retailer did nothing wrong. You waited and lost out. Next time you want something, buy it and you will not have the same problem.


Would you step up and pay $8,000 for something without getting written confirmation of an aspect of the product that was somewhat in question? You must have a lot of spare cash lying around.

I agree that the retailer did nothing legally wrong, but when I expressed my strong interest and asked for confirmation in writing of what I had just spoken to him about over the phone, I would not expect that he/they would take the opportunity to do what they appeared to have done. If you want do continue to do business with retailers that behave in this manner, I say again you must have a lot of spare cash lying around.

Unfortunately, I do not have a lot of spare cash lying around, so I am displeased with what has happened.
F finzMember
i think those with the 'you snooze you lose' comments are not addressing the situation asked.
I understand Machines question/situation to be similar to the following: you walk into McDonalds, you ask are your ice cream cones are real ice cream or ice milk? they give a response, you say "hmmm....let me think about it", then all of the sudden the price on the board for ice cream cones doubles. Do you order the ice cream cone?

So while some are admonishing Machine for losing out, I think he hasn't lost anything, while the store has lost a $32,000 sale. As Machine pretty clearly indicated, this is not a high volume item. It would seem unlikely that since the store has been unable to move this inventory at 8k/ea, its even more unlikely to move the inventory at 13k/ea.

The strike while the iron is hot crowd seems to be assuming the following:
Machine found a severely underpriced item
His inquiry alterted the retailer to their error
Machine is complaining that he missed out on a great bargin

I don't think the evidence presented so far support any of these assumptions. The fact that several other locations listed the same item for a similar price actually refutes this assumption.

If the store really believes their price was outdated or in error, I think it would be good business to a) make a new, possibly life long, deep-pocketed customer, b) move a boat load of inventory, by explaining the situation that "we realized we hadn't updated our prices on that item", but would be willing to sell you one at the prior price if you purchase 1 (or the remaining 3) at the new price. Half of the issue is the silence and not responding to a customer interested in spending a huge wad of money.

Otherwise, the situation certainly seems a bit underhanded. And as everyone has indicated, until the transaction is agreed upon, the seller has every right to continue to hold expensive inventory strangling his cash flow and increase his carrying costs. More power to them.

On a related note, I once offered the asking price and submitted a purchase agreement for some vacant land that was just listed. After several days the advertised price went up 20% with still no response back from the seller regarding the submitted PA. They tried the line about incredible demand for the land and they realized they priced it too low. Well 4 years later the land is still vacant and their still trying to sell it. Perhaps if they decided to let us know personally the price had gone up rather than letting us find out over the internet first, we'd had been more ameanable to doing business with them.
I instantaccessMember
finz,

The price increase indicates that the store believes it will have little problem obtaining the new, higher price.

Price is merely a reflection of market information and not an arbitrary number set by the store to "gouge" people.

If the store is wrong, the wine won't sell. If the store is right, it will make some other customer very happy.

If the store really believed it "lost out" it would not have raised the price.

Finally, if other retailers had the wine at a lower price, why not just buy it from them? I think what many here are saying is that in a free market we all have choices regarding where we buy our wine. If you don't like the practices or prices of a retailer, find another.
Last edited by instantaccess
W wecMember
Machine/finz,

I can't help but feel a little sorry for the two of you. You speak loud and clear, but you remain unheard.

What he is trying to say is this: If he was provided with sufficient information to begin with, the transaction would be done. Since insufficient information was available, in acquiring this information, they jacked the price. The circumstances leading to the increased price is just a matter of gouging or in some cases, even false advertising.

Suppose Retailer XYZ ran an ad saying this:

2004 Tignanello WS 95 - Our price $65.00!! Buy Now!

What would you think? What I would think is, hmmm... is this a 375 or a 750? If it is a 375, that's not a very good price but if it were a 750, that's a great deal. Why don't I contact them and find out which it is. When they tell you it is 750, you go and try and place an order and the price is now $100. Wouldn't you feel kind of ripped?

Machine: Yes, I agree with you. It is not very good business practice. Would I turn my back on them because of this? Depends on how much I want what they have. Frown I know this is not saying much, but that is still the bottom line.
I instantaccessMember
WEc,

I think we all hear them loud and clear. As a matter of the common law (unless local statutes say otherwise) a merchant is within his right to raise the price on an advertised item.

I think what most people are saying here is that if you don't like how you are being treated by the merchant, find another. Wine prices are constantly changing based on little more than what some guy from Maryland or some lifestyle magazine has to say.

I wouldn't feel ripped under your hypo b/c I didn't pay for anything. I would simply find all those other merchants Machine said were selling the wine at the lower price.
L lentiniMember
quote:
Originally posted by Machine:
Twice in the last 2 weeks this has happened to me. First, I found a wine I was interested in, listed at $49.95 on wine searcher and the store's website. I wanted to confirm that the store had the red (and not the blanc) and how many bottles they had, so I sent an inquiry. No response. I checked back a few days later, and the price was $57.95 (*NOTE that at the time I checked back, I did not recall that the original price on this site was $49.95 -- I had been looking on a few sites for this wine, when I saw the $57.95 I assumed that was the price this store had when I originally inquired; when I went back and checked my e-mails and found that I still had the web-page for the site open on my computer at home, I confirmed that the price had been listed at $49.95 a few days earlier). I again sent an inquiry through their online indicating I wanted to purchase and wanted some info, again I got no response. A few days later, I decided that I would send one more inquiry, and if they did not respond I would just order it (and indicate in the memo portion of my order that I only wanted the wine if it was the red version). No response that night, so the next day i went to order. Price had been raised to $67.95. I was extremely annoyed. This was not a recently released or in-demand wine at all. The other listings that I had seen for the wine had not changed, no inventory had disappeared from the other sites that I was looking at. It seemed to me that this store had seen that I had expressed interest and instead of responding to my inquiries had increased the price.

Then in the last week, I again searched for a MUCH higher priced item that I had been looking at for some time. I found it listed on winezap, wine searcher, and the store's website at price X. I phoned the store, the store confirmed the price to me, I expressed my interest and said I would likely order within a few days. I then e-mailed a question to the person to whom I had spoken at this store, asking for confirmation of certain details (I wanted confirmation IN WRITING of these details, because of the extremely high price of this item), and said that once they confirmed back I would let them know within a week if I could buy it. So, I certainly did not order it or say that I was 100% going to order it, but I was pretty clear on the phone that I wanted it and in my e-mail that I was interested once they confirmed the details in writing to me. Well, the person did not respond to my e-mail (sent on Wednesday) which annoyed me, and while I was browsing some other items, I checked the item again (they had 4 in stock when I called (that number was not listed on the website), this was something that had been listed for almost 1 year, and the price that this retailer had was similar to the prices that I had seen at other retailers over the past year). Shockingly, they had raised the price of this item by 62.5%. I just e-mailed the company, will wait for a response and then post the item and their response.

How would you feel if a store had an item in stock for a long time, you called them to say you were interested in the item, and they then jacked up the price by 62.5% before answering the question that you wanted an answer to before you purchased?


Good grief! Pull the trigger and buy the wine the first time you see it!
W wecMember
quote:
Originally posted by Instant Access:
WEc,

I think we all hear them loud and clear. As a matter of the common law (unless local statutes say otherwise) a merchant is within his right to raise the price on an advertised item.

I think what most people are saying here is that if you don't like how you are being treated by the merchant, find another. Wine prices are constantly changing based on little more than what some guy from Maryland or some lifestyle magazine has to say.

I wouldn't feel ripped under your hypo b/c I didn't pay for anything. I would simply find all those other merchants Machine said were selling the wine at the lower price.


Having a legal right or not is NOT the issue. Just like I have the legal right to fart in the face of the guy sitting in the aisle seat in a movie theater as I climb the stairs. But wouldn't you think that that is wrong?

Edit: I added this part.
And what you are saying is don't sit in the aisle seat vs. what machine is saying is if you sat in the aisle seat, would you expect that sort of behavior from your fellow movie-goers?
J jeffleveMember
quote:
Originally posted by Machine:
Twice in the last 2 weeks this has happened to me. First, I found a wine I was interested in, listed at $49.95 on wine searcher and the store's website. I wanted to confirm that the store had the red (and not the blanc) and how many bottles they had, so I sent an inquiry. No response. I checked back a few days later, and the price was $57.95



quote:
Originally posted by Machine:
quote:
Originally posted by Pomerollvr:

If you wanted the item, you should have stepped up and paid for it. The retailer did nothing wrong. You waited and lost out. Next time you want something, buy it and you will not have the same problem.


Would you step up and pay $8,000 for something without getting written confirmation of an aspect of the product that was somewhat in question? You must have a lot of spare cash lying around.

I agree that the retailer did nothing legally wrong, but when I expressed my strong interest and asked for confirmation in writing of what I had just spoken to him about over the phone, I would not expect that he/they would take the opportunity to do what they appeared to have done. If you want do continue to do business with retailers that behave in this manner, I say again you must have a lot of spare cash lying around.

Unfortunately, I do not have a lot of spare cash lying around, so I am displeased with what has happened.


In your first post, you said the item was $49.95. How did it jump to $8,000? Which is it, $49.95 or $8,000?

What is the specific item you are talking about?

What is the "written confirmation of an aspect of the product" you were seeking? What were you asking about?

What is the name of the store? And while you're at it, what is the name of the wine that jumped for $49.95 to $8,000?

And, why are you so vague about everything?
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