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531 replies

NBA 2015-2016

G g-manMember
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
Ray Allen is a fair comparison. I don't think Jesus makes First Team NBA while he was playing, does he?


your arguments makes no sense

first you compare curry to john paxton, hodges and kerr ..

now you're saying he's going to have a better longevity then ray allen.

go back to your crappy italian wines
doubleddoubledMember
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
Ray Allen is a fair comparison. I don't think Jesus makes First Team NBA while he was playing, does he?


your arguments makes no sense

first you compare curry to john paxton, hodges and kerr ..

now you're saying he's going to have a better longevity then ray allen.

go back to your crappy italian wines

I agreed with you on Ray Allen being a better comparison. My argument or question, which I haven't stated yet, is whether Curry is in the same discussion as Jordan, Lebron, Magic, and Kobe.
glennkglennkMember
quote:
Originally posted by Lakersguy:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:
73 wins- really thought it was a record that could not be broken. An unbelievable accomplishment.


The Warriors made the regular season so much fun this year. Their season and the unselfishness of stars like Tim and Dirk late in their careers provided the perfect balance to Kobe ( embarrassing season) dragging the Lakers down the last three years to the worst seasons in the history of the franchise including their time in Minneapolis.


Kobe had nothing to do with "dragging" the Lakers down for the past three years. Signing a broken Steve Nash and a bad back Dwight Howard gambling it could work and bring another championship to LA. It didn't work with either of those guys and Kobe got hurt every year. The other glaring reason is the team signs guys that can't play defense as subs.
Agree. W+A is very wrong in his assessment. The front office decisions are to blame for the quick decline in the Lakers. Nash was a terrible deal in hindsight and Dwight was a bad fit but it turns out he is a bad fit most places. They also have the worst coach in the league which is another front office issue. Does Kobe deserve to be the highest paid player in the league these last 2 years, absolutely not. Were the Lakers profitable on that deal? You bet they were.

It was a great way to finish out a great career. The Jazz helped a lot by not playing D but it was still a fun way to see him go out. I would not trade these last 20 years of Kobe for anyone else in his generation including Dirk, Duncan, even LBJ. It's been a great ride.
G g-manMember
quote:
Originally posted by GlennK:
The front office decisions are to blame for the quick decline in the Lakers.


umm isn't the front office decisions always the blame whenever a team fails?

In the history of sports has there ever been a failed front office decision that lead to a dynasty?

so tell me

what is kobe's win shares per $ spent the last 3 years he played.

considering he took up a massive 30+% of the teams cap space.

i'd call that dragging down the team.

numbers dont lie =)
W wine+artMember
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by GlennK:
The front office decisions are to blame for the quick decline in the Lakers.


umm isn't the front office decisions always the blame whenever a team fails?

In the history of sports has there ever been a failed front office decision that lead to a dynasty?

so tell me

what is kobe's win shares per $ spent the last 3 years he played.... Worst in the league.

considering he took up a massive 30+% of the teams cap space.... While other stars late in their career elected to take a 1/3 of what they could have to help their team compete.

i'd call that dragging down the team.... Without debate. The Lakers played better with him on the bench.

numbers dont lie =)
S stefaniawineMember
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
considering he took up a massive 30+% of the teams cap space.... While other stars late in their career elected to take a 1/3 of what they could have to help their team compete.


I hadn't thought of it to just then but Pete Rose is an interesting parallel. He was a massively negative player and a drain on his teams for the last 5 years he played chasing Cobb.

Not including the throwing games part. And I know, but just wait for it, he'll cop to that too at some point because you know damn well he did.
glennkglennkMember
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by GlennK:
The front office decisions are to blame for the quick decline in the Lakers.


umm isn't the front office decisions always the blame whenever a team fails?

In the history of sports has there ever been a failed front office decision that lead to a dynasty?

so tell me

what is kobe's win shares per $ spent the last 3 years he played.... Worst in the league.

considering he took up a massive 30+% of the teams cap space.... While other stars late in their career elected to take a 1/3 of what they could have to help their team compete.

i'd call that dragging down the team.... Without debate. The Lakers played better with him on the bench.

numbers dont lie =)
So if Kobe took less money you think the Laker results would have been materially different? Who was out there that could and would have signed that would have had a material impact? Sign a bunch of mid level guys to just miss the playoffs? What is the point in that? I like what actually happened better. We have 3 young players with potential and hopefully if the ping pong balls go our way a top 3 pick this year. Plenty of cap room going forward to hopefully land a KD and/or RW type player in the next couple of years.
L lakersguyMember
The amount of money Kobe was paid and salary cap has nothing to do with the Lakers failure. Dr. Buss, who has passed, always took better care of his players than anyone else. Playing in LA still is a high value target for a player, but not as high as it use to be because of social media and 24 hr news cycle. Players can make endorsement money anywhere now. Paying Kobe 50 million for two years was a hell of an investment for the Lakers that kept them the number one or two valued NBA franchise. Gambling on a couple of superstars backfired with losses of draft picks and some questionable bench player signings. I think it will be multiple years before the Lakers contend again which saddens me.
G g-manMember
quote:
Originally posted by GlennK:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by GlennK:
The front office decisions are to blame for the quick decline in the Lakers.


umm isn't the front office decisions always the blame whenever a team fails?

In the history of sports has there ever been a failed front office decision that lead to a dynasty?

so tell me

what is kobe's win shares per $ spent the last 3 years he played.... Worst in the league.

considering he took up a massive 30+% of the teams cap space.... While other stars late in their career elected to take a 1/3 of what they could have to help their team compete.

i'd call that dragging down the team.... Without debate. The Lakers played better with him on the bench.

numbers dont lie =)
So if Kobe took less money you think the Laker results would have been materially different? Who was out there that could and would have signed that would have had a material impact? Sign a bunch of mid level guys to just miss the playoffs? What is the point in that? I like what actually happened better. We have 3 young players with potential and hopefully if the ping pong balls go our way a top 3 pick this year. Plenty of cap room going forward to hopefully land a KD and/or RW type player in the next couple of years.


well to start

you would have gotten CP3
patespo1patespo1Member
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
Ray Allen is a fair comparison. I don't think Jesus makes First Team NBA while he was playing, does he?


your arguments makes no sense

first you compare curry to john paxton, hodges and kerr ..

now you're saying he's going to have a better longevity then ray allen.

go back to your crappy italian wines

I agreed with you on Ray Allen being a better comparison. My argument or question, which I haven't stated yet, is whether Curry is in the same discussion as Jordan, Lebron, Magic, and Kobe.


Not yet, Penny, TMac, Etc had a few great seasons and then injuries brought them down. The greats do it for a career.
patespo1patespo1Member
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:
this guy deserves a pulitzer. brilliant.


Was there any doubt he would jack-up 50 shots last night?

i put the over/under at 46 amongst my friends... absolutely crazy. 60 points, 50 shots... steph curry: 46 points on 24 shots.


10 years makes a difference =) I hsould know, I need to get me some chest pads when i play bball.

kobe @ same age as curry
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=260122013

guess what, steph was still more efficient last night than kobe in his 81 game, as steph avg 1.917 points per shot attempt. kobe avg 1.760 points per shot attempt.


well yea, if you make more 3 pters per attempt, you'd make more pts per attempt. Not really a relevant comparison.

It'd be very hard to argue against kobe in his 81 pt game. The guy literally carried the lakers to a win.

you could very easily argue that the warriors would have still won this game even if kerr decided to rest curry the final game.

credit where credit is due, guys an ass, a total douche, but in his prime, the guy could ball.


V
+1, very well put
G g-manMember
quote:
Originally posted by TPEwinedrinker:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:


well yea, if you make more 3 pters per attempt, you'd make more pts per attempt. Not really a relevant comparison.


actually, you are wrong, as Kobe's FT attempts are the equalizer for Steph's 3 pt prowess. Seriously, however way you look at it, Steph in win #73 was more efficient than Kobe.


but steph didnt score 81. arguing about efficiency is only a small part of the argument about kobe in his prime vs kobe 10 years afterwards.

Kobe did carry the 81 game when no one else on his team was able to hit a shot.

The defense was literally double and triple teaming him in the 4th quarter. he was making like a stupid 65% of his FGs going into the 3rd quarter.


Take Steve Kerr's career with the bulls
he made a whopping 1.33pts/attempt
compared to stephs 1.35pts/attempt
are you going to argue that steve kerr was just as good as steph curry because he was just as efficient?

That 81 pt outburst, to me, was definitely one of the finest games I saw from a basketball player. That game literally defines when a player needs to put a team on his back and carry them.
G g-manMember
fun stat
"Charlotte scores 14.7 more points per 100 possessions when Lin is on the court—roughly the same gap that sits between the Golden State Warriors and Los Angeles Lakers' offensive units during the regular season. They're outscored by a brain-melting 32.5 points per 100 possessions when he sits"-http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/jeremy-lin-charlotte-hornets-miami-heat-nba-playoffs-042616
patespo1patespo1Member
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
fun stat
"Charlotte scores 14.7 more points per 100 possessions when Lin is on the court—roughly the same gap that sits between the Golden State Warriors and Los Angeles Lakers' offensive units during the regular season. They're outscored by a brain-melting 32.5 points per 100 possessions when he sits"-http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/jeremy-lin-charlotte-hornets-miami-heat-nba-playoffs-042616


Heard the talking heads on one of the networks saying that Lin drew so many fouls in Game 4 partially because of the video and NYT article about how he DOESNT' get foul calls. So now the refs are going the other direction. Someone is always going to bitch about the calls, well, except the Warriors and their fans because they get all of the calls their way bart
J jcocktostenMember
quote:
Originally posted by patespo1:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
fun stat
"Charlotte scores 14.7 more points per 100 possessions when Lin is on the court—roughly the same gap that sits between the Golden State Warriors and Los Angeles Lakers' offensive units during the regular season. They're outscored by a brain-melting 32.5 points per 100 possessions when he sits"-http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/jeremy-lin-charlotte-hornets-miami-heat-nba-playoffs-042616


Heard the talking heads on one of the networks saying that Lin drew so many fouls in Game 4 partially because of the video and NYT article about how he DOESNT' get foul calls. So now the refs are going the other direction. Someone is always going to bitch about the calls, well, except the Warriors and their fans because they get all of the calls their way bart


Charlotte was already getting all the calls in Games 1-2 - Heat crushed them yet they still managed to draw far more fouls and get to the line far more often. Total joke
G g-manMember
well charlottes game plan went from being #4 in total 3 pts attempted to this heat series where they became either the #1 or #2 team driving into the paint.

you're bound to get more calls if you're going into the paint

to put into perspective "Lin's played 69 fewer minutes than Russell Westbrook, but they both have 46 drives"
J jcocktostenMember
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
well charlottes game plan went from being #4 in total 3 pts attempted to this heat series where they became either the #1 or #2 team driving into the paint.

you're bound to get more calls if you're going into the paint

to put into perspective "Lin's played 69 fewer minutes than Russell Westbrook, but they both have 46 drives"


Yes blindly driving into the paint, crashing into someone and flailing your arms gets foul calls apparently in this day and age. Total joke-fest.
G g-manMember
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
well charlottes game plan went from being #4 in total 3 pts attempted to this heat series where they became either the #1 or #2 team driving into the paint.

you're bound to get more calls if you're going into the paint

to put into perspective "Lin's played 69 fewer minutes than Russell Westbrook, but they both have 46 drives"


Yes blindly driving into the paint, crashing into someone and flailing your arms gets foul calls apparently in this day and age. Total joke-fest.


except jlin acutally goes for the hoop unlike a few other of his contemporaries
J jcocktostenMember
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
well charlottes game plan went from being #4 in total 3 pts attempted to this heat series where they became either the #1 or #2 team driving into the paint.

you're bound to get more calls if you're going into the paint

to put into perspective "Lin's played 69 fewer minutes than Russell Westbrook, but they both have 46 drives"


Yes blindly driving into the paint, crashing into someone and flailing your arms gets foul calls apparently in this day and age. Total joke-fest.


except jlin acutally goes for the hoop unlike a few other of his contemporaries


Have nothing against him - he has played great and apparently not a single player on the Heat can stay in front of him - but the number of foul calls has been ridiculous
G g-manMember
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
well charlottes game plan went from being #4 in total 3 pts attempted to this heat series where they became either the #1 or #2 team driving into the paint.

you're bound to get more calls if you're going into the paint

to put into perspective "Lin's played 69 fewer minutes than Russell Westbrook, but they both have 46 drives"


Yes blindly driving into the paint, crashing into someone and flailing your arms gets foul calls apparently in this day and age. Total joke-fest.


except jlin acutally goes for the hoop unlike a few other of his contemporaries


Have nothing against him - he has played great and apparently not a single player on the Heat can stay in front of him - but the number of foul calls has been ridiculous


because charlotte went from the #4 3 pt shooting team to the #1/2 team playing in the paint.

There is a direct causation of foul calls to distance from the hoop. Closer to hoop > foul calls.
J jcocktostenMember
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
well charlottes game plan went from being #4 in total 3 pts attempted to this heat series where they became either the #1 or #2 team driving into the paint.

you're bound to get more calls if you're going into the paint

to put into perspective "Lin's played 69 fewer minutes than Russell Westbrook, but they both have 46 drives"


Yes blindly driving into the paint, crashing into someone and flailing your arms gets foul calls apparently in this day and age. Total joke-fest.


except jlin acutally goes for the hoop unlike a few other of his contemporaries


Have nothing against him - he has played great and apparently not a single player on the Heat can stay in front of him - but the number of foul calls has been ridiculous


because charlotte went from the #4 3 pt shooting team to the #1/2 team playing in the paint.

There is a direct causation of foul calls to distance from the hoop. Closer to hoop > foul calls.


And selling BS contact to the refs
InsightInsightMember
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
well charlottes game plan went from being #4 in total 3 pts attempted to this heat series where they became either the #1 or #2 team driving into the paint.

you're bound to get more calls if you're going into the paint

to put into perspective "Lin's played 69 fewer minutes than Russell Westbrook, but they both have 46 drives"


Yes blindly driving into the paint, crashing into someone and flailing your arms gets foul calls apparently in this day and age. Total joke-fest.

OMG, the irony of this from any Heat fan after DWade got every phantom foul call imaginable in the 2006 Finals versus Dallas........ doh
InsightInsightMember
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
Gman and I were having fun debating the officiating - I am neither surprised nor angry.

And I'm having fun with a Heat fan using terms like "total jokefest", "ridiculous" and "selling BS contact" to describe an inordinate amount of fouls being called when the same situation in the Heat's favor enabled them to steal their first NBA title.
G g-manMember
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
Despite being outscored in the paint and rebounded, Charlotte wins Game 5. Totally deserving as well. Courtney Lee - what a play getting the offensive rebound and nailing the 3


funny that jb should mention that single play ... wade was most certainly getting benefit of the doubt calls that game.
S stefaniawineMember
Heat winning a series means nothing to anyone outside of south Florida, and to 90% of the people in south Florida.

Charlotte winning a series sells millions, probably tens of millions in merchandise for the NBA in Asia. You think Lin's going to get some foul calls? Really surprised?

I loved the comment about the Warriors getting 'all the calls'. Really? Have you watched any games this year? The NBA routinely called fouls at 2 x1 or even 3x1 or 4x1 against the Warriors. It was the only way to keep games close. In a fairly called league the Warriors would have won 80 games and had games they won by 60+ points.

The NBA is fun, but come on, the fix is in and has been for decades. Officials keep games close and help teams that need help. It's not as bad as 10 years ago when you could pick the brackets based on the potential tv ratings, but if you're going to bitch about officiating you need to find something else to watch on tv. IT's never going to be fair or honest.
J jburman82Member
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
Despite being outscored in the paint and rebounded, Charlotte wins Game 5. Totally deserving as well. Courtney Lee - what a play getting the offensive rebound and nailing the 3


funny that jb should mention that single play ... wade was most certainly getting benefit of the doubt calls that game.


Didn't watch the whole game. Just the last 3 minutes. No clue what else happened.
InsightInsightMember
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
Despite being outscored in the paint and rebounded, Charlotte wins Game 5. Totally deserving as well. Courtney Lee - what a play getting the offensive rebound and nailing the 3


funny that jb should mention that single play ... wade was most certainly getting benefit of the doubt calls that game.


Didn't watch the whole game. Just the last 3 minutes. No clue what else happened.

Homer's not gonna homer? Jumped off the bandwagon already?

catmouse Razz
J jburman82Member
Whoa. How am I a homer? Is it because I defended LBJ when he was here and said he was the best player in the league and Miami would win multiple title? Its not homer if you're right. bart

This Heat team was never a title contender, even with Bosh. I like to talk a little smack but any Heat fan who thinks they are winning a title with this iteration of the team is fooling themselves. Interesting offseason ahead though. Is Riley going to double down and resign Whiteside to a max deal and hope for healthy Bosh and internal growth from Winslow and Richardson or he does he let Whiteside walk and try to bring in a free stud free agent? Two if he convinces Bosh to retire?
patespo1patespo1Member
quote:
Originally posted by fusionstorm:
I'm referring to you not watching the game, except for the final 3 mins. If you're busy, DVR it and watch the whole thing. C'mon!

No way Bosh is going to retire of his own volition. He wants to play right now! No idea if he's physically going to ever be cleared to play.


Cmon, Heat fans didn't show up until the 2nd Quarter of Finals games, and left after the 3rd Quarter....you think they will watch a first round game? Roll Eyes
patespo1patespo1Member
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
I wonder how many Cav fans were burning his jersies or cussing him out when LBJ left and now root for him? Razz


All of them.


This is the correct answer. And if Satan himself could bring one of the Cleveland sports teams a title, he would be a hero, and I would be the first to pat him on the back.
J juicyMember
quote:
Originally posted by patespo1:
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
I wonder how many Cav fans were burning his jersies or cussing him out when LBJ left and now root for him? Razz


All of them.


This is the correct answer. And if Satan himself could bring one of the Cleveland sports teams a title, he would be a hero, and I would be the first to pat him on the back.


One person can not win a title. That has been proven many times. Takes a great team to win a title. Talent,endurance, depth, health, and with replay, luck is less a part of the equation.

Go Warriors!!!
patespo1patespo1Member
Cavs have had a problem all season with not stepping on their opponents throat when they have them down by double digits. Almost cost them last night, most likely will against a better opponent.

The Spurs-OKC end of the game had multiple things happening (Waiters pushed off, Ginoboli was over the line with his feet and hands while guarding, Westbrook had his jersey grabbed while cutting for the ball). I think 3 or 4 different fouls could've been called on that one play, so letting them play on may have been best thing to do.
bomba503bomba503Member
14 years ago today "We sitting in here -- I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we in here talking about practice. I mean, listen: We talking about practice. Not a game. Not a game. Not a game. We talking about practice. Not a game. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game like it's my last. Not the game. We talking about practice, man."
InsightInsightMember
quote:
Originally posted by BOMBA503:
Love him or hate him it would be hard to argue anyone ever played the game harder. Being from Philly my friends and I relive that interview often. I remember it like it was yesterday.

Pound for pound, AI might be the greatest offensive force in modern NBA history.

But he didn't play nearly at that activity level on the defensive end. Way too many attempts to cherry pick the passing lanes, and not nearly enough effort (and physical mass) to defend his man, fight thru screens, etc.

Michael Jordan still gets my vote for hardest working/most competitive player ever from end line to end line and back.
G g-manMember
quote:
Originally posted by fusionstorm:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
Jordan never had to carry the scrubs AI had to carry throughout his entire career

Ill give him a pass on guarding the post up big guards

Bulls before Pippen and Horace Grant joined the roster weren't world beaters.......


george gervin is better than any player ai ever played with during his career on philly
InsightInsightMember
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by fusionstorm:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
Jordan never had to carry the scrubs AI had to carry throughout his entire career

Ill give him a pass on guarding the post up big guards

Bulls before Pippen and Horace Grant joined the roster weren't world beaters.......


george gervin is better than any player ai ever played with during his career on philly

33 y/o Ice Man in his final season was not better than Jerry Stackhouse in his 2 seasons with AI, or Andre Iguodala, or Chris Webber when he averaged 20.9 pts and 9.9 rebounds per game over 75 games during the 2005-2006 season.

Yes, the Sixers didn't have strong rosters overall during AI's time there. But to say he never had ANY talent lining up with him isn't true.
J jburman82Member
quote:
Originally posted by Rob_Sutherland:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
Heat and Raptors are apparently equal teams. 4 games - 3 overtimes and the non-overtime game was decided by 4 points. Has that ever happened?

Does not matter, Cavs will destroy either team


Totally agree. That was an ugly game last night though. After these play-offs will Derozen still get the max?


He has a hurt thumb which is affecting his shooting. Dude is getting max.
patespo1patespo1Member
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
Can't we just fast-forward to the Finals?


I've found the OKC-Spurs series interesting so far, and whoever wins vs. Warriors next round should be pretty good as well.

Cavs are pretty dialed in right now, but I see them dropping one game vs. Heat/Raptors winner, just because they will lose focus at some point. The Toronto / Heat series has been brutal to watch.
J jburman82Member
quote:
Originally posted by patespo1:
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
Can't we just fast-forward to the Finals?


I've found the OKC-Spurs series interesting so far, and whoever wins vs. Warriors next round should be pretty good as well.

Cavs are pretty dialed in right now, but I see them dropping one game vs. Heat/Raptors winner, just because they will lose focus at some point. The Toronto / Heat series has been brutal to watch.


Unless Whiteside or Valantunous(sp?) comes back I think its a clean sweep. Without those two the teams will get demolished on the boards.
A azwieseMember
Steph was crazy good in OT. Thank goodness the 3's started falling for him. His first 9 attempts were pretty ugly.

For me, the play of the game was that 3 by Harrison Barnes near the end of the 4th qtr. Just an amazing play. The replay from the camera at midcourt had a great angle and showed Barnes setting the pick, stepping towards the 3pt line with his back to the hoop, and Curry passing it from under the hoop before Barnes had even turned around. The Dubs run some amazing plays. And that one worked to perfection. Huge shot for Barnes.
InsightInsightMember
quote:
Originally posted by Azwiese:
Steph was crazy good in OT. Thank goodness the 3's started falling for him. His first 9 attempts were pretty ugly.

For me, the play of the game was that 3 by Harrison Barnes near the end of the 4th qtr. Just an amazing play. The replay from the camera at midcourt had a great angle and showed Barnes setting the pick, stepping towards the 3pt line with his back to the hoop, and Curry passing it from under the hoop before Barnes had even turned around. The Dubs run some amazing plays. And that one worked to perfection. Huge shot for Barnes.

As many scintillating 3s and other baskets Steph made last night, that Barnes 3 with 50 seconds to go in regulation was the most important bucket of the night IMO. He misses there (which he's been doing for most of the playoffs), and it's highly likely the series is tied 2-2.

And for those few misguided individuals who wonder why Mark Jackson has yet to get a coaching gig, that play is something he could've never drawn up. Only a keen basketball mind can draw that up knowing the defense will collapse on Steph and leave Barnes to double team the shooter in the corner.
InsightInsightMember
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
Not defending Mark Jackson, but the Blazers would probably prefer to have Barnes take that shot. I don't see any brilliance with that play. A brilliant play would free up Curry or Klay to take the shot. No?

DD, I'll give you a pass, since you didn't have to suffer through the Mark Jackson era of "iso ball/hero ball".

Drawing up a play in the latter stages of the game isn't just about "hey guys, do this and do that, and it will be guaranteed to work no matter what the opposing team does". Terry Stotts, were it not for the Dubs setting the single-season record for wins, would've been the Coach of the Year. Kerr knows that Stotts is instructing his players to key on Steph and Klay, and basically put their fate in letting Dray/HBarnes/Iggy take the shot. If you watch that play again, you can see how much defensive attention Steph (2 guys marking/chasing him, and Lillard lets HBarnes leak out to the 3 pt line while he becomes the 3rd Blazer to be paying his full attention to Steph driving thru the lane) gets after he receives the ball, and that the Blazers were trying to prevent Steph from passing to Klay in the corner. Iggy was wide open at the top, and Dray's man was playing well off of him as well.

Kerr knew full well that Steph and Klay would essentially occupy at least 4 of the 5 defenders out there, and designed a play where the other Warriors were all ready to receive the ball and shoot. So Kerr felt that a wide open HBarnes (or Dray, or Iggy) was preferable to either Steph or Klay shooting a contested shot.
G g-manMember
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
Not defending Mark Jackson, but the Blazers would probably prefer to have Barnes take that shot. I don't see any brilliance with that play. A brilliant play would free up Curry or Klay to take the shot. No?


It's a good point that a brilliant coach would have come up with some crazy play to free up a curry

But being a numbers team. I'm sure they looked at the fact that when curry drives and checks out to an avg spot up shooter they would have a 57% chance of making it in. Barnes is actually better than your avg spot shooter raisng those chances to somewhere around the 60ish mark
Compared to curry shooting, an insane mark, 49-50% contested 3 PT shot the numbers still dictate you pass it off to Barnes

It was the same play i told tpe two years back when we were n Miami watching the spurs final where I told him Manu was getting g the ball on the last shot
doubleddoubledMember
Fusionstorm, it all comes down to execution. If Barnes missed that shot, the Blazers claim that was their plan. Teams pretty much have to pick their poison. Having Curry with the ball to kick it out to an open man is a common play.

I didn't watch enough of Mark Jackson coach, but isolation plays were pretty common back then when he played and that's how he learned to coach. You give your best player the ball on a one-on-one match up. To be fair to Jackson, the team he coached was very raw and just started playing together. And, I think Luke Walton could've drawn up the same play. Let's not drink all the Warriors Kool-Aid and put Kerr in the top coaching echelons just yet. Wink
Last edited by doubled
G g-manMember
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
Fusionstorm, it all comes down to execution. If Barnes missed that shot, the Blazers claim that was their plan. Teams pretty much have to pick their poison. Having Curry with the ball to kick it out to an open man is a common play.


And if the blazers adhered more to the numbers. they acutally should have tried to let curry shoot the contested 50% shot instead of lettin barnes get the kick out > 60% shot
InsightInsightMember
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
Fusionstorm, it all comes down to execution. If Barnes missed that shot, the Blazers claim that was their plan. Teams pretty much have to pick their poison. Having Curry with the ball to kick it out to an open man is a common play.

I didn't watch enough of Mark Jackson coach, but isolation plays were pretty common back then when he played and that's how he learned to coach. You give your best player the ball on a one-on-one match up. To be fair to Jackson, the team he coached was very raw and just started playing together. And, I think Luke Walton could've drawn up the same play. Let's not drink all the Warriors Kool-Aid and put Kerr in the top coaching echelons just yet. Wink

Thanks for affirming my point, DD. Jackson doesn't have the chops to coach an NBA team past a certain point. No way do the Warriors win a championship with Jackson at the helm.

As for the "raw" aspect, I'd highly disagree. The team as currently constructed was pretty much all there during the Jackson years. All of them were high IQ players who'd played significant roles for D1 programs. Do you think that Steph was taught iso ball at Davidson, Klay at Wash St, Dray at Michigan St, Barnes at UNC, Iggy at U of AZ, Bogut at Utah, David Lee at Florida, etc.? All those guys came out of programs where plays and sets were the norm, not the exception. So they get to the NBA, and Jackson has to "dumb down" their offense b/c they lack the background? No way.

There's a reason why Bogut, Barnes and DLee were happy to see Jackson go. And why Jackson has thrown Steph under the bus on multiple occasions. Only Dray seems to still be cordial with Jackson (I was literally 10 feet away from them when Dray came over and gave Jackson some dap after the Dubs had clinched the WC title against HOU last year), and even Dray would attribute his development, success and size of his bank account to Kerr and not Jackson (as well as DLee getting injured).
S scbeermanMember
Billy Donovan has successfully made the jump from college to the NBA. Beating a 67 win Spurs team is a big accomplishment, especially since it is coached by the masterful Popovich. Now if OKC could upset Golden State, that would put Billy D in a total new light. I want Billy to make it in the NBA because my fear is that he returns to college to coach either UNC or Duke.
F fcsMember
quote:
Originally posted by VinT:
quote:
Originally posted by fcs:
Thinking Miami runs out of gas today in Game 7 vs Toronto. Still a great series to watch, D-Wade has been playing like a 25 y.o.

A prophetic post if there ever was one.


Great team play by Toronto, and the shooting percentage was fantastic. If you guys can keep that going, the Cavs are in for a real test!
doubleddoubledMember
OKC definitely caught a break about the non-traveling call.

I didn't understand Kerr's comments that alluded to rushing their shots at the end of the game. It looked like Klay/Curry shot in the same way throughout the entire game - if you can see the basket, take the shot. The only difference is that the ball wasn't going in.

I hope KD can improve his 10 for 30 shooting. OKC can't win again with that performance.
G g-manMember
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleD:
OKC definitely caught a break about the non-traveling call.

I didn't understand Kerr's comments that alluded to rushing their shots at the end of the game. It looked like Klay/Curry shot in the same way throughout the entire game - if you can see the basket, take the shot. The only difference is that the ball wasn't going in.

I hope KD can improve his 10 for 30 shooting. OKC can't win again with that performance.


i have the admit the travel call is not i see often in the nba

i mean, look at this!
espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14041517

though... maybe it's only okc not getting the travel calls
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