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I'm "buying backward" now, but only those vintages BEFORE 1998. Doesn't matter if it's red, white, Old World, New World.

I'm wanting to buy some really great wines that will be at their peak at any time from 2004 to 2010, from one bottle but no more than three of any wine and am looking for as many different recommendations as possible but only wines that the recommender has had him/herself.

It's an unusual quest, perhaps, but since I came to an appreciation of wines somewhat late in life, at 46 or so--and that was in 1996-1997--I wasn't following wines before then. If you have any suggestions, they will be greatly appreciated. I'll decide later what I can afford but if you have an idea of the price per bottle for any recommendation you make, please post that too.
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I posted a reply to MildBill's thread about what wine to buy for his grandaughter in which I posted my rough guide of Australian wines worth looking to for long term cellaring.

I would look for the following vintages from the following regions:
South Australia and Victoria Generally
1986, 1990, 1991 and 1996

Hunter Valley (NSW)
1983, 1991.

West Australia:
It's easier to list the lesser vintages: 1984, 1985, 1989, 1993, 1998.

Seppelts St Peter Shiraz was known as "Seppelts Great Western Shiraz" prior to 1998. Speaking of Sepplets I would recommend their Show Reserve Sparkling Shiraz from 1986, 1990 or 1991 as being exceptional wines that have a bit of a 'wow' factor. I think the 1986 may have been known as "Sparking Burgundy" not "Sparkling Shiraz". is a commercial wine auction house that regulalry gets lots of older Aussie premium wine. They have an international shipping service.

The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. -Herbert Spencer

[This message was edited by Pauly on Dec 23, 2003 at 02:42 AM.]
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I have a suggestion for a vertical that would include 3 wines. The Casa Lapostolle Clos Apalta. You should be able to get the '99 the '00 and the '01 pretty soon. I think all of these will be great right around the 2007-2010 range. I haven't had the '01 yet although it is available here but I know the '99 and '00 are outstanding and '01 is supposed to be an even better vintage. I will probably try the '01 in the next couple of weeks and post notes. Not sure if this is the kind of suggestion you're looking for but just something I would consider.

BTW, the PF Changs wine we had discussed I had posted notes here.
See if you can find these...

Hanzell 1998 Chardonnay great CA w/Burgundian vibe.

Older Grand Cru Chablis... Les Clos, Valmur, Vaudesir 1995/96/97 Billaud Simon, Dauvissat, Verget and of course Raveneau. Kick ass grand cru for $35-$110/ btl.

Jadot Batard, Chevalier Les Demoiselles & Le Montrachet. I bought some 96' Batard for $90 btl !!! Les Domeseless for $175/btl and Le Montrachet for $199.
Well, if you've read more than 3 of my posts, you can guess what I'm going to recommend..... vintage port!

Anything from 1977 or earlier will be in its prime between 2004-2010, and afterwards if you like. I've had the 77 Gould Campbell and Quarles Harris, the former is better than the latter but they are both good. I have other 77s but they are not yet at their best, it seems. Though I may open a (94 point) 77 Dow over the holidays.

The 1985s will also be ready then. I've had the 85 Graham and Kopke, again the former is much better than the latter but they are both good.

The 1983s should also be at their peak by then. I've had the 83 Dow and it is wonderful.

Other ports I've had from later vintages that would be good, if not at their best, would be the 1988 Malvedos (it might be at its best then) and 87 Taylor Vargellas.

Go for vintage port! Cool

snow sucks.......
Montrachet, Bman, thank you very much.

Bman, my lovely bride bought me an 85 Grahams this past Saturday . . . so, I'm well on the way there. I've had the 77 Dow on 3 different occasions, the last one in April or so of this year, and the last one was the best one and by the best, I mean phenomenal. You're dead on target about ports!

Montrachet, I'm going to research your suggestions. With a name like that, I think you've got some ideas I've not investigated before. This will expand my experience as a result. This is going to be a lot of fun. Is the older Chablis you recommended oak free? I am thinking I've read Chablis isn't as heavy with the oak as California. I'll check on that too so don't feel obligated to reply. Thank you.
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Over the past couple of years I have tasted many wines which I felt both lived up to the "great" standard and were *almost* ready to drink. (Read: I'd drink 'em because they are so delicious now, but they might be even better in a couple of years)

(Note: many of the '99 Cabs will be at their best in about 2008 or so, is my guess -- though they were all DELICIOUS)
(1999 Bryant Family would, but you won't find this for less than $375, and I just couldn't reccomend doing that to yourself, especially given that I like some of these other wines as much)
1999 Dalla Valle Cab
1999 Fisher Wedding Vinyard Cab
1999 Etude Cab
1995-2000 Phelps Insignia with particular attention to 1997, and also lots of attention to 1999.
1999 Karl Lawrence Cab
2000 Ojai Roll Ranch Syrah
2001 Siduri Pisoni Pinot Noir
2001 Martinelli Moonshine Ranch Pinot Noir
1999 Domaine Serene Grace Vinyard Pinot Noir
1999 Bacio Divino
2001 Behrens and Hitchcock Petite Sirah Spring Mountain

1997 Ucelliera Brunello di Montalcino
1997 Antinori Brunello di Montalcino
1997 Altesino Brunello di Montalcino
1999 Tua Rita Giusto di Notri
2000 Tua Rita Giusto di Notri
1999 San Giusto a Retenanno "Percarlo"
1995 Quinterelli Amarone
1998 Tomasso Bussola TB Amarone
1998 Sandrone Cannubi Boschis Barolo
1998 Pira Marenca Barolo

1970 Montrose (at peak right now)
1986 Talbot
1995 Montrose
1995 Pichon-Lalande
1999 DRC Vosne-Romanee
1996 Rene Engel Clos Vougeot
1993 Groffier Bonnes Marres (at peak now and over next couple of years)
2001 Pegau CdP
1997 Jaboulet Hermitage "La Chapelle" (best at around 2008 or 2009, I would say)
1997 Jaboulet Cote-Rotie "Les Jumelles"
2000 Weinbach Riesling Schlossberg St. Chaterine L'Inedit!
1990 Charles Heidsiek Blanc de Blanc
1990 Salon
1990 Veuve Clicquot La Grande Dame
1990 Dom Perignon (not as good as the three listed above it, but still exellent)

1995 Roda I Rioja Riserva
2001 MP Integrity
2001 JJ Prum Spatlese Wehlener Sonnenuhr
2001 JJ Prum Auslese Wehlener Sonnenuhr
2001 JJ Christoffel Kabinett Urtziger Urtzgarten

I think most Chablis see either a very small % or no new oak. Even Grand Cru. On the other hand, I had a Peter Michael(CA) 01' Le Carrier Chardonnay recently which had significant oak yet Parker made no mention of it in his review. I avoid oaky Chards like the plague. Anybody want to buy my three remaining Peter Michael Le Carrier? Chablis, on the other hand, are very pure expressions of the grape and the minerally soil it grows in. No other Chardonnay taste like Chablis.

Hanzell Vineyards from the Somoma side of the Mayacamus mountains also sees very little new oak. It is very elegant, Puligny M like, minerally and flavorfull CA Chardonnay. I have been buying up the 98'locally @$45/btl which is drinking great and should last at least 3-5 more years.
The following suggestions are based on what I have in my cellar. The ratings and the anticipated drinking ranges are either from Robert Parker or Wine Spectator. I don't know how successful you would be in finding these wines.

97 Arrowood Cab Reserve Special - RP 97 his tasting notes compared the aromics to the 1966 Latour.

The new release Peter Michael (very hard to get) Chardonnay's are rated 93 WS and will be at peak drinking in 1-3 years.

1997 Napa/sonoma Cabs - many of these wines are or will be peaking now through the next few years. I espcially like the following:

Kathryn Kennedy
Peter Michael Les Pavots
Chateau St Jean Cing Cepages
Whitehall Lane

I have found the WS vintage charts a good guide when shopping for wine from vineyards that I don't know.

The best Chablis grand cru is mainly matured in oak.
If you prefer unoaked: some winemakers choose for a more upfront freshness and choose against wood.

My opinion however is that the ones with oak will last longer (when the grape quality allows responsable use of the wood). "Last longer" doesn't mean I want to throw in some sarcasm in this rather geriatric thread...
Don't know if you like Bordeaux, but two under $100 exemplary Bordeaux are 1996 Pichon Lalande and 1996 Ducru Beaucaillou.. try Sherry-Lehman, or Zachy's, or (use the dash).

Otherwide I'd go back to 1990 Bordeaux, but with price appreciation, you're looking at 92-94 point wines in the $75-$100 range. Or go all out at $135 for 1989 Lynch Bages or 1989 or 1990 Pichon Baron, all 95+ point Bordeaux. They'll be vry good now but perfect within 3-4 years.

Other 1990 I like are Canon La Gaffeliere ($90), Haut Marbuzet ($85), Troplong Mondot or Angelus ($180 both unfortunately).
I don't pickup any oaky flavors or aroma in the the Chablis I drink, even Grand Cru.

Per Clive Coates from his... The Wines And Domains of France....

"Others, such as the much respected growers Francois Raveneau and Rene Dauvissat use oak, BUT it is OLD NOT new, and it imparts no oaky taste to the wine."

"Chablis should be as natural a wine as possible,its flavors as subtle and delicate and its essential gun-flinty, steely character should not be swamped by the supplimentary aromas which result from vinifying or maturing in oak."

Again... no emphasis on NEW oak in Chablis. Try them you'll love their non oaky presentation of Chardonnay.
Pauly, Emilio, montrachet61, bman [1977 Taylor, and another 1985 Grahams], Rik, Whiner15, Tommays [welcome to the boards, Tom), DunninLA, Rhone Warrior, (and anyone I've overlooked and thos who may yet reply) thank you for the excellent suggestions and I am researching a lot of wines now, as a result. I've had some offline suggestions too.


1 bottle 1977 Taylor Port
1 bottle 1985 Ridge Montebello
1 bottle 1985 Grahams Port (in addition to the one my wife bought me this week)
2 bottles 1986 Lynch Bages
2 bottles 1989, Clerc Milon
1 bottle 1992 Forman Cabernet

I'm planning on 1 or 2 bottles of the following:
1989 or 1990 Pichon Baron, 1990 Pichon Lalande. Others in the suggestions list are being looked at too. Some things depend on price and availability and who I can consolidate my purchases from as well. All of today's purchases are from K&L.

We should be born at 80 and live life backward. It would make buying wine easier, and more enjoyable too. This mid life wine crisis is my "back to the future" campaign, so to speak. My wife should appreciate I'm chasing older bottles of wine instead of younger babes!

No need to worry about a mid-life crisis.

I can see into the future, and believe me, you will live a very long life. In fact, you will become immortal.

You will be revered and your name spoken with the likes of Ceasar, Spartacus and Russell Crowe.

A space will be reserved for your profile on Mount Rushmore.

A special 'curvee' will be created in your honor and deemed, 'DOM PERIGNON GOYINS.'

Furthermore, I see......I see.....

Pardon me, I see that my glass is empty. Eek

[This message was edited by DebAnne on Dec 25, 2003 at 10:35 AM.]

[This message was edited by DebAnne on Dec 25, 2003 at 10:37 AM.]
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Hail Ceasar Goyins? That was a fun posting, DebAnne. You cracked me up. Smile Didn't they nail Spartacus to a cross from which he didn't come down? I think I'll settle for Russell Crowe!
Rhone, K&L had 1982 Pontet-Canet. The info I found suggested that the Ponte-Canet would be on the decline. I'll guess the first and super seconds are in wonderful condiition. I'll keep my eyes open.
Montrachet, K&L didn't have items you suggested, unless I missed them in the inventories.
DunninLa, I've found your 89 and 90 suggestions (Pichon Baron) at Premier Cru. I'm going to see what I can add to my list from Premier Cru.

DH, you are correct about Spartacus; however, you mustn't be dismayed as suffering is required of greatness or to quote Napoleon, "imperative, I would say!"

Well, at least that's what Armand Assante said as Napoleon in the 1987 tv movie, 'Napoleon & Josephine.'

Oh, and by the way, no need to worry about those pesky historians. I am a writer and I have influence. I'll see that you are treated fairly.

Now back to your concerns about wine to consume in one's declining years: May I suggest.....

1. one glass of fine claret in the evening,
after the theater

2. an occasional Glenlivet after golf and as an
aperitif before lunch. But just one, mind
you! Well, perhaps two depending on your golf

3. More red wine in your die! Remember Brando in
'The Godfather,' sitting in the garden and
telling Michael that he's drinking more in his
mature years and Michael saying, "it's good for
you, Pop." You wouldn't want to contradict
Michael, wouldn't be wise.

4. And, of course, Champagne. Drink only the best;
no time to spend on mediocrity, as you are
getting on.

Keep Tattinger, Veuve Cliquot, LaurentPerrier,
Billcart Salmon and Bollinger in your cellar.

Well, I must leave you now and tend to my goose. 'Merry Christmas' and bear these words in mind:

'I drink once, I drink twice, I drink three times; now I understand the rules of mathematics.'

I...don't know...what that means......., but I'm beginning to wonder who has absorbed more of this wine, me or the goose! Confused

[This message was edited by DebAnne on Dec 25, 2003 at 12:39 PM.]

[This message was edited by DebAnne on Dec 25, 2003 at 12:40 PM.]

[This message was edited by DebAnne on Dec 25, 2003 at 02:06 PM.]
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2 bottles of 1988 Mouton-Rothschild

DebAnne, you're on a roll! Smile By the way, I posted a topic to your attention and on this forum regarding a couple wine books you may want to consider.

DunninLa, I am DEFINITELY going to buy 2 bottles of the Pichon Baron 89 vintage as soon as all three of the following are in alignment: 1) my wallet recovers, 2) I have room in my cellar at home (I have remote storage for several cases but small bottle purchases don't work for my long term locker) 3) and I finish researching other suggestions that have been made above. If I can get several items from one vendor, it saves on the shipping charges and co-ordinating with my crazy travel schedule.

[This message was edited by DHGOYINS on Dec 26, 2003 at 01:05 PM.]
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Thanks DH,

I'm going out tomorrow to look for the books.

I noticed you mentioned two Rothschilds among your 'declining years' of Spirits.

Once I purchased a Rothschild Mouton Cadet. It was horrible. But don't allow that to discourage you. We all have different tastes and as you are getting on, well.....just don't let that discourage you. Red Face

I sampled a wonderful burgundy at a wine tasting last month: Domaine De Pousse D'or Pommard "Les Jarolieres." Lovely color, aroma & taste and very soft. You might want to check this out.

In the meantime, I trust that you've taken special care in the storage of your 'mid-life' spirits: locks, keys; etc.

And watch the neighbors. Smile Sure they're great fun to have in the house, but wine is wine and a most precious commodity. Guard that liquor cabinet!

By the way, ever thought of getting a rottweiler? A great dane will do. Cool
DHG, beware the 1990 Pichon Lalande..something went wrong in the winery, rumor is a bunch of free run juice was accidentally discarded. It is not a good example of Bordeaux or PL.

I had the 1990 Sociando Mallet yesterday. A most excellent 93 point (RP) wine that you can enjoy today, or in 15 years. Big, sweet, complex, with a long finish. THIS is what make $18.00 (what I paid in 1993) Bordeaux great. Try to find a couple bottles, probably at around $100.00
DebAnne, after I bought those 2 Mouton's online, I did some further research and based on some notes I read, cancelled the order. This was a 100 point wine when first evaluated. A few years later, Suckling reviewed it with left handed compliments and a rating of 94 that I inferred he almost felt compelled to give it even that high of a score simply as a 100 pointer going to 90 would be politically incorrect.

DunninLa, thanks for the heads up on the 90 Lalande. As for your S. Mallet, that's awesome you have such a great wine now! I will see what I find.
1996 Corton Charlemagne. I had Bouchard Pere's version about 6 months ago. The only Corton Charlemagne I ever had. From a great vintage, and it still had miles and miles to go. Should be drinking nicely 2007 or so. Extra bonus - My wife had to stop drinking it after about 1 1/2 glasses, said she was to buzzed. It did have a tremendous kick to it. I have seen some Bonneau du Martray in one of the new York City catalogs, wither Zachy's or Sherry Lehman.
Guy, thanks for those suggestions. To be honest, I had never heard of Corton Charlemagne. I had to pull out my Oxford Companion to Wine to get a handle on it.

And, as a result of the suggestions others made upline and yours, I renewed my full access subscription to the WS online's ratings so I could get WS' reviews and also see others tasting notes when they are posted on the full subscription servcice.

This thread will eventually go dormant, and when it does. I'm going to print it to a PDF file and save all the suggestions. I've been researching many, as you can see above, but have plenty of time to research further as I've spent plenty (for me) in December and need to take a rest. There's a world of wine out there, but I take these suggestions as more personalized and give them greater interest as a result. I've got to drink my home cellar down a tad to get to move some more wines in and doing that isn't easy since these are premium wines I reserve for special meals, which I am not home often enough, alas, to prepare as often as I would like.
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Distressed that a young fella like you wants to stop buying wines younger than 1998 (well, almost)!

The mid-life bit must have been pretty severe! Most Americans now make it to 75 (average) so you have quite some time and the '98s will be getting tired by then. What about looking at drinking your wines at a 10 to 12 YO peak ... you can leave the odd one to see if they'd last to 20.

You are old, Father William,
And your hair has turned to white.
Do you think, doing handsprings,
At your age ... is quite right?
Vinserve! You wascal! I've been wondering where you were . . . still makin' those beer runs to Thailand, eh? Smile

I fully expect to live to 100, but the ol' senses may be shot by then. Probably at 90, cult wines like Thunderbird (don't have that stuff in NZ, I'll bet!) will taste like the best Sauternes. And, I DO want to remember that I had something good to drink, so, if I can drink the good wines before 70, I may remember them for a decade.

DebAnne, the hair is indeed turning white, at least at the temples. I'd love to claim being distinquished looking, but it just "ain't" so! Smile
Hi DHGoyins,

I have a wonderful resource to suggest in your quest. And one that may continue to prove helpful through the years.

During the holidays, I was looking for a source for wine gifts for a variety of friends. I came across Abrosia, a site devoted to older Cabs and other varietals. The great thing about the site is that it is supported by folks on the phones who really know the wines and have tasted them all on a yearly basis. Check out They know their wines and are nice people!

Another suggestion is one of a personal nature. As I am a vintner myself in the Russian River area of Sonoma County, I have a strong bias to any of the fine boutique Pinot noirs grown in this area. I will not mention my own, for obvious reasons, but will suggest Tandem 2001 Pisoni or Keefer, Iron Horse Thomas Road (any vintage), and also check out Dutton Goldfield or Hartford Court.

Let us know the wines that you choose.


Just had a thought. If you're looking for some special wines, I'd also steer your attention to the Penfolds Special Bin reds. These are one off parcels of very good wine that the Penfolds winemakers thought were too special to blend into their mainstream blends. The recent ones that you should be looking for are:
1996 Bin 42 Kalimna Cabernet Sauvignon
1990 Bin 90A Shiraz - Cabernet Sauvignon
1990 Bin 920 Cabernet Sauvignon - Shiraz

Look to be paying around $250 AUD (roughly $150 USD) for them. If you want to look for something really special, and significantly more expensive, try hunting for the 1962 Bin 60A or the 1967 Bin 7

The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. -Herbert Spencer
Pauly, thanks for those suggestions! None of the wines from the 60's hit the radar on But a Grange did for a $1,000! I bought a 96 Grange in the summer of 2003 and am marking time (many years, it would seem) to try it. I found one of the wines from the 90s at $300, and one on auction but didn't follow that one through to the auction site.

I'm keeping these suggestions in a PDF file for future reference. My wallet has been turned inside out since my recent "back to the future" campaign. It's going to be a few months, maybe late in the year, before I can get serious again for purchasing and then I'll have another go at it!

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