Minneapolis Bordeaux wine dinner friday April 11th at Basil's restaurant

Come on now we have two people from parker boards coming for crying out loud!

mpls,

I don't spend much time on these forums, but do lurk occasionally and happened to see your post. My wife and I live near Madison, and we love Bordeaux. We can't make it up there this time, perhaps another time. We'd also be glad to put something together if you ever find yourself in our area. I'd contact you off-list, but don't know how to do that via this site.

Pierre

pierre, I can set up an offline at the spur of the moment anytime. I do alot of them at the country club I work at where there is no corkage fee and we have a private room with riedel glasses. My e-mail is JRATER64@MSN.COM and my name is Johnny Rater. Let me know if you will be in the twin cities sometime.

I will be bringing the 2000 Grand Mayne

JG

If I may make a suggestion, bring bordeaux from more approachable years like 2001, 1999, 1998 and some of the better bottles from 1997. This way, you won't find the bottles too closed or shut down. In a good year like 2000, you need a good 10 years minimum before the wines are remotely approachable.

Up to four so just 2 more spots open

Nice to hear from you mimik! I'm going to decant my Lafon Rochet 2000 all day before I go to work.

quote:

Originally posted by Mimik:
If I may make a suggestion, bring bordeaux from more approachable years like 2001, 1999, 1998 and some of the better bottles from 1997. This way, you won't find the bottles too closed or shut down. In a good year like 2000, you need a good 10 years minimum before the wines are remotely approachable.

A week ago a friend and I enjoyed a 2000 Chauvin that was drinking quite nicely. Indeed, it probably still has a couple years to go before hitting its peak, but I found no shame or disappointment in drinking it now. ... granted, Chauvin hardly qualifies as one of the more compact and dense "big boys."

Johnny,
Can't wait to be in town again for next X-Mas! I can still taste that veal osso bucco...so good!

when are you thinking of doing the dinner?

april 11

Nice to hear from you Brashley I hope you and all yours are doing fine!

mpls,

All is well with Ash and I. We send our warm wishes your way as well...hopefully Minny will warm up for ya'll pretty soon! I'm looking forward to reading the TN's from your upcoming event. Is there a particular vintage you're all thinking of focusing on?

Brashley,

It looks like we won't make it out your way this summer but would love to see you again next winter. I think most of us are going 2000. I wish I had some older wines but 2000 will be fun to try.

Yep, 2000 seems to be the vintage. I don't have any Bordeaux younger than that in my cellar anyway.

Niiiice! Perhaps I will crack my 2000 du Tertre the same evening, and do a toast to my fine MN brethren.

one spot left.

Michael M. is joining us.

sooooooo...how was it!?! Inquiring minds would love to know

Hi brashley! Was a good night. First off my wine, 2000 Lafon Rochet St Estephe. Parker, Tanzer and WS all gave it 91 pts, but my bottle was off, not cooked but bitter, green pepper and herbal and woody so If I had to rate it would be 80 pts. Bought it from premier cru so I'd be wary of buying more of this wine. 2004 Chateau Lascombes Margaux was next. Earthy, tannic with cedar and herbs, with time fleshed out with some cherry fruit, but not a long finish. 87 pts. 1991 Leoville Las Cases St Julien had massive concentration with blackberry and bing cherry fruit. Soft velvety tannins and good length on the finish. 90 pts. 2000 chateau Olivier Pessac Leognan. Earthy, Smokey nose, with leather and pepper note. Sweet red fruits in the mouth, really fleshed out over time. A great Qpr for the price. 90 pts. 2000 Chateau Grand Mayne St Emilion. Most fruit forward Bordeaux of the night. Dark brooding color in the glass. Alot of blackberries in the mouth. A muscular wine, very rich in the mid palate with a long finish. 92 pts. 1997 Chateau Grand Puy Lacoste Pauillac. Earthy and disjointed. smokey cedar oak and dill on the nose with red berries in the mouth with a short finish and soft tannins. 85 pts. The food portions at Basil's were huge. The ceasar salad came in a bowl big enough for four people. And yes I had their lamb osso buco which was a huge portion too. Their was no one left in the restaurant after about 8:30. But the food was very good for a hotel restaurant. The golf course at Edina opens tomorrow so I'm going to be a very busy boy for the next six months! Take care Brash! Johnny.

quote:

Originally posted by mpls wine guy:
Hi brashley! Was a good night. First off my wine, 2000 Lafon Rochet St Estephe. Parker, Tanzer and WS all gave it 91 pts, but my bottle was off, not cooked but bitter, green pepper and herbal and woody so If I had to rate it would be 80 pts. Bought it from premier cru so I'd be wary of buying more of this wine.

mwg,

Sounds like the classic dumb phase to me when the wine is just disjointed. Often the fruit will shut down and your tasting note reflects this to me. I have seen wines when dumb only showing one grape on the palate, and often it could be the Cab Franc even if less than 10% of the final blend.

Give the wine time.

I agree with wine+art on the Lafon. Of the 1996s I've had, and I bought over 12 bottles, they are still relatively primary. 2000s are shut down and St. Estephes, especially, are wine for the long haul.

quote:

Originally posted by wine+art:
Sounds like the classic dumb phase to me when the wine is just disjointed. Often the fruit will shut down and your tasting note reflects this to me. I have seen wines when dumb only showing one grape on the palate, and often it could be the Cab Franc even if less than 10% of the final blend.

Give the wine time.

I have no doubts in what you are saying and am not trying to stir anything up but out of curiosity, you would require some expected belief about the profile of the wine to assert that it is in a dumb phase right? If so, then a natural consequence is that any blind evaluation of a wine will be an an unfair assessment. Quite interesting.

Johnny,

You guys really ran the gamut of vintages, didn't you! Sounds like ya'll had a great time. I'm glad you guys had the '04 Lascombes...it's been on my radar, but maybe I'll pass for pricetag around $50.

Golf? in MN? already!?! ... if that's not evidence of global warming I don't know what is.

I hope all is well with you and your family. Until next time, take care

quote:

Originally posted by WEc:

quote:

Originally posted by wine+art:
Sounds like the classic dumb phase to me when the wine is just disjointed. Often the fruit will shut down and your tasting note reflects this to me. I have seen wines when dumb only showing one grape on the palate, and often it could be the Cab Franc even if less than 10% of the final blend.

Give the wine time.

I have no doubts in what you are saying and am not trying to stir anything up but out of curiosity, you would require some expected belief about the profile of the wine to assert that it is in a dumb phase right? If so, then a natural consequence is that any blind evaluation of a wine will be an an unfair assessment. Quite interesting.

WEc, not positive on what you are saying, but will try to respond.

your quote, " would require some expected belief about the profile"

Not really. If the wine looks young in appearance, smells like a Bordeaux, shows no traces of TCA, but is void of fruit which would be expected in any younger wine regardless, then thinking it may be closed or dumb is a natural assessment... right?

Did I answering your question?

Thanks for the advice everyone, I'll hold my other bottles for a few more years.

quote:

Originally posted by wine+art:

quote:

Originally posted by WEc:

quote:

Originally posted by wine+art:
Sounds like the classic dumb phase to me when the wine is just disjointed. Often the fruit will shut down and your tasting note reflects this to me. I have seen wines when dumb only showing one grape on the palate, and often it could be the Cab Franc even if less than 10% of the final blend.

Give the wine time.

I have no doubts in what you are saying and am not trying to stir anything up but out of curiosity, you would require some expected belief about the profile of the wine to assert that it is in a dumb phase right? If so, then a natural consequence is that any blind evaluation of a wine will be an an unfair assessment. Quite interesting.

WEc, not positive on what you are saying, but will try to respond.

Your quote, " would require some expected belief about the profile"

Not really. If the wine looks young in appearance, smells like a Bordeaux, shows no traces of TCA, but is void of fruit which would be expected in any younger wine regardless, then thinking it may be closed or dumb is a natural assessment... right?

Did I answer your question?

quote:

Originally posted by wine+art:

quote:

Originally posted by WEc:

quote:

Originally posted by wine+art:
Sounds like the classic dumb phase to me when the wine is just disjointed. Often the fruit will shut down and your tasting note reflects this to me. I have seen wines when dumb only showing one grape on the palate, and often it could be the Cab Franc even if less than 10% of the final blend.

Give the wine time.

I have no doubts in what you are saying and am not trying to stir anything up but out of curiosity, you would require some expected belief about the profile of the wine to assert that it is in a dumb phase right? If so, then a natural consequence is that any blind evaluation of a wine will be an an unfair assessment. Quite interesting.

WEc, not positive on what you are saying, but will try to respond.

Your quote, " would require some expected belief about the profile"

Not really. If the wine looks young in appearance, smells like a Bordeaux, shows no traces of TCA, but is void of fruit which would be expected in any younger wine regardless, then thinking it may be closed or dumb is a natural assessment... right?

Did I answer your question?

Thanks. Yes and No.

When I read the brief TN that mwg provided on the Lafon Rochet it immediately reminded me of Ontario Reds. And this is precisely why I have disliked reds from the Niagara region. So was I being presumptuous or could it be that the wine is in a dumb phase? At what point do you draw the line?

Cheers!

quote:

Originally posted by WEc:

quote:

Originally posted by wine+art:

quote:

Originally posted by WEc:

quote:

Originally posted by wine+art:
Sounds like the classic dumb phase to me when the wine is just disjointed. Often the fruit will shut down and your tasting note reflects this to me. I have seen wines when dumb only showing one grape on the palate, and often it could be the Cab Franc even if less than 10% of the final blend.

Give the wine time.

I have no doubts in what you are saying and am not trying to stir anything up but out of curiosity, you would require some expected belief about the profile of the wine to assert that it is in a dumb phase right? If so, then a natural consequence is that any blind evaluation of a wine will be an an unfair assessment. Quite interesting.

WEc, not positive on what you are saying, but will try to respond.

Your quote, " would require some expected belief about the profile"

Not really. If the wine looks young in appearance, smells like a Bordeaux, shows no traces of TCA, but is void of fruit which would be expected in any younger wine regardless, then thinking it may be closed or dumb is a natural assessment... right?

Did I answer your question?

Thanks. Yes and No.

When I read the brief TN that mwg provided on the Lafon Rochet it immediately reminded me of Ontario Reds. And this is precisely why I have disliked reds from the Niagara region. So was I being presumptuous or could it be that the wine is in a dumb phase? At what point do you draw the line?

Cheers!

Do Ontario wines smell like Bordeaux, look like Bordeaux or have the weight of Bordeaux?

I have never had a wine from Canada with the exception of off dry, so really do not know.

quote:

Originally posted by wine+art:
Do Ontario wines smell like Bordeaux, look like Bordeaux or have the weight of Bordeaux?

I have never had a wine from Canada with the exception of off dry, so really do not know.

Well, does a Bordeaux in a dumb phase actually smell like Bordeaux? Is the weight and look of Bordeaux uniform across the board?

Sure it smells like a Bordeaux. It sure does not smell like a Burgundy!

Are the weight and color the same on all Bordeaux wines, no, but many. Not really the point here, but not sure what is now except you have become obtuse.

quote:

Originally posted by wine+art:
Sure it smells like a Bordeaux. It sure does not smell like a Burgundy!

Are the weight and color the same on all Bordeaux wines, no, but many. Not really the point here, but not sure what is now except you have become obtuse.

I don't understand how my sincere queries warranted such a response from you. Asserting that a wine does not smell like a Burgundy, unfortunately, does not necessarily imply that it smells like a Bordeaux. My original question in a nutshell:

Two bottles of wine, one quality wine that is in a "dumb phase" and another bottle of wine that is just generally deprived of fruit aromas and elements. In smell, appearance and mouthfeel, the two are almost equivalent. How do you differentiate the two? Is it possible to mistaken a "fruitless" wine to be in a dumb phase?