Have spent quite a bit on wine in last 2-3 years, including a fair bit on 05 Bordeaux futures. At LCBO, the very liberal return policy (the only real positive thing about the LCBO) allows you to return anything at any time for a full refund as long as you have a receipt (and the product appears to be in saleable condition). Well, my credit card was compromised a few months ago (some charges for flights at Ho Chi Minh airport...thanks Visa for competently approving these charges, likely due to my frequent trips to asia Roll Eyes). Now LCBO refuses to take back any of the wine because they say their policy does not allow them to credit a different credit card than was used to purchase the wine. I will contact head office and try to get this sorted out (because I probably have $4000 or more worth of bottles to go back to the store), but this is yet another chapter in the ongoing annoyance of LCBO store employees/management hassling me about any wine returns, and asking questions and giving resistance that are completely contrary to their written stated return policy. I always end up getting my way (so I guess this is just a rant), but the fact that none of the employees or management seem to be aware of their return policy really pisses me off and wastes a lot of my time.

p.s. reasons for the returns are (a) simply the fact that I can do it...why not order a bunch of futures early and then return those that get downgraded/that I taste and realize I don't like them for the $, (b) some wines generally just dont live up to the hype/ratings, and not worth keeping, and (c) highly rated products seem to sell out immediately upon release, so if you see something that looks like a good buy, you cant buy one and try it and then go back for more (because it will be sold out); only choice is to buy a case now, try it, and then return it if is does not match expectations. All of these things are 100% allowable according to their return policy, yet whenever I try to return I get hassled ("why are you returning this", "did you buy these from this store, if not then why are you returning them here", "why did you buy these if you were just going to return them", "these product are expensive, this is a very large return for us to have to process" (as if $ is a concern for the LCBO), etc., etc., etc...). These clowns are such a pain in the ass.
Original Post
I'm not at all surprised at the resistance you're facing. Please remember that individual stores are measured on the basis of their inventories and sales... so if you return a whole lot of product that they're not sure they can sell, they will be bitter.

With futures I do my best to ensure I cancel everything BEFORE I receive it. I know this doesn't give me a chance to try it, but it stops me from saddling product consultants that I rely on through the year with inventory they don't want.

Now, enough for the LCBO defending... the other part of this, of course, is that it's a union shop, and at the risk of offending many out there, I just don't think Union workers are in general as motivated to serve the customer as non-union. There are definite exceptions, such as the afore mentioned Product Consultants that help me out a great deal.
Why don't you make life easy on yourself and use the wines you want to return as a "piggy bank?" If you see something you want, bring back 4-6 bottles you don't want and exchange them for the ones that you do. This accomplishes two things:

1.) You don't have to worry about the LCBO not being able to charge back the wines to your now defunct credit card.

2.) You'll get less hassle because you're not returning $4000 worth of wine in one shot.

I'm leaving my response at that, since that directly addresses your issues. Think big picture here. The last thing any of us want to see is the LCBO revoke that returns policy as it's one of the few good things the monopoly gives us.

I also don't want to see this thread spiral into mud-slinging.

BTW, your line:

quote:
I always end up getting my way (so I guess this is just a rant), but the fact that none of the employees or management seem to be aware of their return policy really pisses me off and wastes a lot of my time.


... brings a quotation to mind (I'll paraphrase):

quote:
You'll get further with honey than vinegar.


As an aside, I can only imagine how pissed Summerhill was when some guy returned $40,000 worth of futures a few weeks ago.
quote:
Originally posted by futronic:
Why don't you make life easy on yourself and use the wines you want to return as a "piggy bank?" If you see something you want, bring back 4-6 bottles you don't want and exchange them for the ones that you do. This accomplishes two things:

1.) You don't have to worry about the LCBO not being able to charge back the wines to your now defunct credit card.

2.) You'll get less hassle because you're not returning $4000 worth of wine in one shot.

I'm leaving my response at that, since that directly addresses your issues. Think big picture here. The last thing any of us want to see is the LCBO revoke that returns policy as it's one of the few good things the monopoly gives us.

I also don't want to see this thread spiral into mud-slinging.

BTW, your line:

quote:
I always end up getting my way (so I guess this is just a rant), but the fact that none of the employees or management seem to be aware of their return policy really pisses me off and wastes a lot of my time.


... brings a quotation to mind (I'll paraphrase):

quote:
You'll get further with honey than vinegar.


As an aside, I can only imagine how pissed Summerhill was when some guy returned $40,000 worth of futures a few weeks ago.


The piggy bank idea was going to be my backup plan. Today I was picking up a $540 classics order and tring to return 3 bottles of 1999 Monbousquet ($120 per). I told them that if they could not process the return then I would immediately return my classics order (pain on my new visa), then exchange the Monbo to pay part of the classics order and then pay for the rest. They just ended up doing a head office return (which means I will get a cheque mailed to me)...but took me 25 minutes of standing there to get it taken care of.

Re. Honey/Vinegar, I am always quite nice, but get a little short after facing the same thing over and over again. Should just take things back to Bayview Villiage, no hassles there ever...but if they did not ever have the wines in their system, they cant take them back (to my knowledge)
I make almost all of my purchases at one of two stores here and never get a hassle on returns provided the bottle is in the sysytem, even if I don't have a receipt. Of course, the most I'm returning is stil less than $200 (most of the time), and I have had some bad experiences at other stores. But I'm so well known at the two I regularly visit that I cannot imagine them hassling me. I do try to do my returns on a Sunday or weekday though (when it's less busy), and NEVER on a Friday evening or after noon on a Saturday.
quote:
Originally posted by Greg H:
I find exchanging - take 3 back ( like I did today )_ and get 6 - pretty simple. No receipts needed or expected. Since I track in www.cellartracker.com - I know my original cost (just in case)
Receipt is always the way to go. LCBO sometimes delists products that have only a few bottles in the system by up to 50% and in doing so puts potential returns or exchanges for that product in jeopardy unless you have a receipt. Quoting Cellartracker's not going to help you. Blindly letting them quote the value of your returns and you might be losing money on the transaction, even on exchanges.
quote:
Originally posted by Machine:
The piggy bank idea was going to be my backup plan. Today I was picking up a $540 classics order and tring to return 3 bottles of 1999 Monbousquet ($120 per). I told them that if they could not process the return then I would immediately return my classics order (pain on my new visa), then exchange the Monbo to pay part of the classics order and then pay for the rest. They just ended up doing a head office return (which means I will get a cheque mailed to me)...but took me 25 minutes of standing there to get it taken care of.


My suggestion would be to use the piggy-bank approach for leftover Classics stuff that appears on shelves and what shows up for Vintages releases. Trust me, it's going to be much less grief in the long term. You don't piss off the store staff, nor have to worry about LCBO head office sending you cheques.

quote:
Should just take things back to Bayview Villiage, no hassles there ever...but if they did not ever have the wines in their system, they cant take them back (to my knowledge)


This is not true. The "system" is the LCBO as a whole. Regardless of whether a bottle was ever available at Bayview, the product still scans and you can return it. One issue you may run into, however, is if you're trying to return a bottle from many years ago whose product number has aged out of the system. If that's the case, you either need the receipt or they will have to contact the LCBO head office to get the last known price (which takes a day or two). That happened to me a few months ago when I returned a corked bottle of 1997 Marchesi di Barolo Barbaresco Riserva. The CSPC aged out of the system (new vintages came with a new CSPC). I left the bottle with the people at Summerhill and they called me back the next day letting me know the return price and that I could come back at my convenience to process the exchange and get something else. No problems whatsoever.

Naturally, if you have the receipt, then this whole process can be bypassed.
quote:
Should just take things back to Bayview Villiage, no hassles there ever...but if they did not ever have the wines in their system, they cant take them back (to my knowledge)


quote:
This is not true. The "system" is the LCBO as a whole. Regardless of whether a bottle was ever available at Bayview, the product still scans and you can return it. One issue you may run into, however, is if you're trying to return a bottle from many years ago whose product number has aged out of the system. If that's the case, you either need the receipt or they will have to contact the LCBO head office to get the last known price (which takes a day or two). That happened to me a few months ago when I returned a corked bottle of 1997 Marchesi di Barolo Barbaresco Riserva. The CSPC aged out of the system (new vintages came with a new CSPC). I left the bottle with the people at Summerhill and they called me back the next day letting me know the return price and that I could come back at my convenience to process the exchange and get something else. No problems whatsoever.

Naturally, if you have the receipt, then this whole process can be bypassed.


When I called cust. service about returning classics orders, they said that if I don't return to the store at which I took delivery, the store in question might not have the product listed in their system (they were pretty adamant about this, so I will ask again on Monday...my problem is that the closest store to me has a small Vintages section and no wine cellar, so I feel bad returning anything that is out of the price range of wines they would normally stock). I suggested Bayview Villiage beacause once when I was returning there and mentioned problems like those I mentioned on this thread, they just told me if I have any problems then I should just bring it to their store. Hwy. 7 and Yonge is closest big store to me, but have had problems there also.

By the way, were there any goodies in that return to Summerhill????
Weird about the returning of Classics items. I really don't think it should be a big deal. If your store is a small one, then I probably wouldn't bring it back there since you don't want to put the store out too much (developing a good relationship with your PCs is a good thing!). Bring it back to the 7/Yonge store as they have a larger selection.

There was a bunch of 2004 and 2005 Bordeaux at Summerhill if I recall (didn't pay much attention).

I did grab some 2003 La Tour Blanche and 2001 Suduiraut Sauternes in halves though.

I'm pretty sure everything is gone at this point. You'd have to go into the store to check, however, as everything was returned in the generic 997700 CPSC code.
quote:
Now LCBO refuses to take back any of the wine because they say their policy does not allow them to credit a different credit card than was used to purchase the wine.

If your credit card was cancelled and replaced another one by your bank, you should ask the store to call their Visa department to confirm this. Then they are supposed to honour the replacement card.

CIBC's Aeroplan card has been compromised so many times and so many ways, that I have had it replaced several times now. And last fall, they replaced thousands of them with the Infinity card because of another security breach. I've never had a problem getting the LCBO to accept the new card for a refund.

BTW, I have several times been given a hard time about returning wine by a beligerant sales clerk. I've learned to avoid getting into an argument - it just makes them dig in even harder. I usually just ask for the store manager which often restores the discussion to a reasonable tone. (Last January, one of the clerks at Summerhill was refusing to return the bottle because it felt cold. I pointed out that it was nearly -15C outside and that I had left my home an hour earlier, but I had to speak to the manager to get it accepted.)
I've done large returns without receipts before and have just asked them to put the total on a gift card for me. That way I'm not forced to exchange for items I don't really want since I usually have bought everything I want already. Just don't lose the gift card!

Oh and I've never returned to where I've purchased. I almost always return items to Summerhill, Bayview or QQ.
quote:
Originally posted by on the wine:

If your credit card was cancelled and replaced another one by your bank, you should ask the store to call their Visa department to confirm this. Then they are supposed to honour the replacement card.


That is exactly what Visa told me. LCBO said no, but I expect that if I tried this at Hwy 7 or Bayview Villiage or Summerhill then they might have let it go through. The cold bottle thing is ridiculous, what exactly did they think was wrong with it? Guess I better not return a bottle of white or bubbly that has been in the fridge.

Gift card idea would also suffice, I will ask cust. service about this tomorrow.

If I learn anything interesting enough to post (or if I get undue resistance) I will follow up.
quote:
Originally posted by Duojet:
Others with better diplomacy skills have addressed your problem, but returning $4,000 worth of wines because you can defies logic.

I can see how this being repeated regularly will lead to adverse changes to the LCBO's policy.


Why is returning $4,000 worth of wine a big deal? They had no problem selling me approx. $30K of wine in the last 30 months; if something does not live up to my expectations/the price, I don’t see why I should not return it. I bought six 2005 Montrose on Futures (about $1,000 total), looked like a good choice, lots of people like it, but when I got a chance to taste it, I did not like it. Should I be stuck with it? Add in a case of 6 Don Melchor, 12-2006 Mitolo Gam,12-2006 Serre Nuove Dell’ Ornellaia, and a few other similar examples adds that did not live up to expectations, I get up to $4,000 pretty quickly with only a few wine selections.

Because of the way that the LCBO sells wine (via futures, via classics releases/new releases that very often sell out immediately), there is little choice but to either buy all the wines you think you want initially (and often before having had a chance to taste), or risk not being able to get that wine. Sure the GAM and Serre Nuovo are still around I think, but could have sold out quickly, and I knew I really liked prior vintages for the price so I bought a case of each (plus a few bottles). For futures/classics, once you receive the wine, if it is not to your liking, you can return it. This is the LCBO policy, you can return anything for any reason to any store as long as you have a receipt and it is in saleable condition, and I made purchases knowing this policy (but being unaware of their no-returns-to-a-new-visa-if-your-card-was-stolen policy). Their return policy is in my opinion the #1 benefit of the LCBO. If they change the policy, it will change my purchasing behaviour and I will end up with fewer returns and also with less wine in my cellar (if I miss out on something I want b/c it was sold out before I could taste it and go back to buy more, I won’t replace it by buying something that I wanted less)…but I expect they will still sell the high-demand products to the many other people in line.

To comply with your position, I assume that I will have to buy one bottle, wait for it to arrive, taste it, and try to buy more. This is not feasible to me for the wines I am interested in. Alternatively, I will have to buy a case of something that I think I want a case of, but if I don’t end up liking it I should just keep it regardless. I don’t see any other alternatives based on your criticism, if there are some please advise. Not really sure what defies logic her.
I run into this in my line of work and the creditcard companpies as (well as the industry I work in ) do not allow you charge one card and refund a different card. We usually process the refund to the original card notify the customer who inturn lets the credit card company know of the refund details. They usually have the refund transfered to their new credit card.

Gibby
quote:
Originally posted by Machine:
quote:
Originally posted by Duojet:
Others with better diplomacy skills have addressed your problem, but returning $4,000 worth of wines because you can defies logic.

I can see how this being repeated regularly will lead to adverse changes to the LCBO's policy.


Why is returning $4,000 worth of wine a big deal? They had no problem selling me approx. $30K of wine in the last 30 months; if something does not live up to my expectations/the price, I don’t see why I should not return it. ...I don’t see any other alternatives based on your criticism, if there are some please advise. Not really sure what defies logic her.


I agree with Machine who is just playing by the rules. Their return policy is clearly stated [per LCBO website]... "There is no limit to the number or value of products which may be returned at any given time." Case closed.

If this leads to a change in policy, then I'd argue LCBO had this in their back pocket anyway to pull out as the lame excuse to further price gouge. And if store performance are measured without factoring in returns, then I'd argue their accounting system is as in need of update as their website.
quote:
Originally posted by Stevey:
quote:
Originally posted by Machine:
quote:
Originally posted by Duojet:
Others with better diplomacy skills have addressed your problem, but returning $4,000 worth of wines because you can defies logic.

I can see how this being repeated regularly will lead to adverse changes to the LCBO's policy.


Why is returning $4,000 worth of wine a big deal? They had no problem selling me approx. $30K of wine in the last 30 months; if something does not live up to my expectations/the price, I don’t see why I should not return it. ...I don’t see any other alternatives based on your criticism, if there are some please advise. Not really sure what defies logic her.


I agree with Machine who is just playing by the rules. Their return policy is clearly stated [per LCBO website]... "There is no limit to the number or value of products which may be returned at any given time." Case closed.

If this leads to a change in policy, then I'd argue LCBO had this in their back pocket anyway to pull out as the lame excuse to further price gouge. And if store performance are measured without factoring in returns, then I'd argue their accounting system is as in need of update as their website.


To be clear I wish I had not purchased many of those that I am returning in the first place, but for the Montrose, the Don Melchor, orders from classics catalogues, and from higher demand new releases, the choice was either buy or risk being shut out. I hate having to trudge back to the store to return, and I hate the hassles that I always get. Maybe if I was paying US prices there would be a lot less incentive to return bottles, but I try to get my money's worth and when it does not happen then I expect the LCBO to hold up their side of the bargain. It should be noted that some stores are much better than others; some personnel just don't know their own policies (and I did not know the stolen visa policy).
quote:
Originally posted by Machine:
quote:
Originally posted by Duojet:
Others with better diplomacy skills have addressed your problem, but returning $4,000 worth of wines because you can defies logic.

I can see how this being repeated regularly will lead to adverse changes to the LCBO's policy.


Why is returning $4,000 worth of wine a big deal? They had no problem selling me approx. $30K of wine in the last 30 months; if something does not live up to my expectations/the price, I don’t see why I should not return it. I bought six 2005 Montrose on Futures (about $1,000 total), looked like a good choice, lots of people like it, but when I got a chance to taste it, I did not like it. Should I be stuck with it? Add in a case of 6 Don Melchor, 12-2006 Mitolo Gam,12-2006 Serre Nuove Dell’ Ornellaia, and a few other similar examples adds that did not live up to expectations, I get up to $4,000 pretty quickly with only a few wine selections.

Because of the way that the LCBO sells wine (via futures, via classics releases/new releases that very often sell out immediately), there is little choice but to either buy all the wines you think you want initially (and often before having had a chance to taste), or risk not being able to get that wine. Sure the GAM and Serre Nuovo are still around I think, but could have sold out quickly, and I knew I really liked prior vintages for the price so I bought a case of each (plus a few bottles). For futures/classics, once you receive the wine, if it is not to your liking, you can return it. This is the LCBO policy, you can return anything for any reason to any store as long as you have a receipt and it is in saleable condition, and I made purchases knowing this policy (but being unaware of their no-returns-to-a-new-visa-if-your-card-was-stolen policy). Their return policy is in my opinion the #1 benefit of the LCBO. If they change the policy, it will change my purchasing behaviour and I will end up with fewer returns and also with less wine in my cellar (if I miss out on something I want b/c it was sold out before I could taste it and go back to buy more, I won’t replace it by buying something that I wanted less)…but I expect they will still sell the high-demand products to the many other people in line.

To comply with your position, I assume that I will have to buy one bottle, wait for it to arrive, taste it, and try to buy more. This is not feasible to me for the wines I am interested in. Alternatively, I will have to buy a case of something that I think I want a case of, but if I don’t end up liking it I should just keep it regardless. I don’t see any other alternatives based on your criticism, if there are some please advise. Not really sure what defies logic her.


If you're trying impres me by how much you've spent on wines, you've failed. Clearly, you have a sense of entitlement and no rational argument will work. Good luck getting your money.
quote:
Originally posted by Duojet:
quote:
Originally posted by Machine:
quote:
Originally posted by Duojet:
Others with better diplomacy skills have addressed your problem, but returning $4,000 worth of wines because you can defies logic.

I can see how this being repeated regularly will lead to adverse changes to the LCBO's policy.


Why is returning $4,000 worth of wine a big deal? They had no problem selling me approx. $30K of wine in the last 30 months; if something does not live up to my expectations/the price, I don’t see why I should not return it. I bought six 2005 Montrose on Futures (about $1,000 total), looked like a good choice, lots of people like it, but when I got a chance to taste it, I did not like it. Should I be stuck with it? Add in a case of 6 Don Melchor, 12-2006 Mitolo Gam,12-2006 Serre Nuove Dell’ Ornellaia, and a few other similar examples adds that did not live up to expectations, I get up to $4,000 pretty quickly with only a few wine selections.

Because of the way that the LCBO sells wine (via futures, via classics releases/new releases that very often sell out immediately), there is little choice but to either buy all the wines you think you want initially (and often before having had a chance to taste), or risk not being able to get that wine. Sure the GAM and Serre Nuovo are still around I think, but could have sold out quickly, and I knew I really liked prior vintages for the price so I bought a case of each (plus a few bottles). For futures/classics, once you receive the wine, if it is not to your liking, you can return it. This is the LCBO policy, you can return anything for any reason to any store as long as you have a receipt and it is in saleable condition, and I made purchases knowing this policy (but being unaware of their no-returns-to-a-new-visa-if-your-card-was-stolen policy). Their return policy is in my opinion the #1 benefit of the LCBO. If they change the policy, it will change my purchasing behaviour and I will end up with fewer returns and also with less wine in my cellar (if I miss out on something I want b/c it was sold out before I could taste it and go back to buy more, I won’t replace it by buying something that I wanted less)…but I expect they will still sell the high-demand products to the many other people in line.

To comply with your position, I assume that I will have to buy one bottle, wait for it to arrive, taste it, and try to buy more. This is not feasible to me for the wines I am interested in. Alternatively, I will have to buy a case of something that I think I want a case of, but if I don’t end up liking it I should just keep it regardless. I don’t see any other alternatives based on your criticism, if there are some please advise. Not really sure what defies logic her.


If you're trying impres me by how much you've spent on wines, you've failed. Clearly, you have a sense of entitlement and no rational argument will work. Good luck getting your money.


Wow you really are completely clueless arent you. My point in mentioning the amount spent was to demonstrate that my returns are only a small percentage of what I have purchased. Why didn't you explain what exactly defied logic about my return? What is your basis for suggesting that I have a sense of entitlement in trying to return wines that (except for the Visa issue) is 100% consistent with the LCBO's return policy? What rational argument have you made that would counter my position? Your original post was pointless and your reponse to my response was completely nonresponsive. You obviously lack the cranial capacity to be involved in this discussion, maybe you should just move on.
I think the real issue here is that the LCBOs return policy has created a safety net for which many of us has come to rely on. I am sure many of us have made speculative or glutonous purchases, knowing in the back of our minds we can always return it. It's like a sickness. We over buy to satisfy our addiction and when you wake up the next day and see your credit card bills sometimes the wine all of a sudden doesn't taste as good as initially thought. No worries, I'll just return it.
Mr. Machine, why call people clueless? Rant, rant, rant! Be careful, the LCBO could shut you down the next time you place large orders which will partially be returned. Rational? Sure , why sell you wine when you seem to return it, policy or not. You also could have sold the Montrose privately and profited, but you are probably against selling wine for a gain, but I forgot, the 2005 Montrose is crap, who would buy it? stick with the Malbec's that fill your cellar. Want to buy a La Tache 2005? $2000 plus all your Montrose.
quote:
Originally posted by jovin:
Mr. Machine, why call people clueless? Rant, rant, rant! Be careful, the LCBO could shut you down the next time you place large orders which will partially be returned. Rational? Sure , why sell you wine when you seem to return it, policy or not. You also could have sold the Montrose privately and profited, but you are probably against selling wine for a gain, but I forgot, the 2005 Montrose is crap, who would buy it? stick with the Malbec's that fill your cellar. Want to buy a La Tache 2005? $2000 plus all your Montrose.


I called him clueless because the content of his posts indicated that he was clueless, just as the content of your post also does so. No kidding it is a rant, that is the point, clueless. You think the LCBO will shut me down because I am returning a little over 10% of my purchases? Refer to 'clueless' again, clueless. Yes I could have sold Montrose privately for a profit of $20-30 per bottle, you really must be a high roller if you would suggest this as an option. As far as I know it is also illegal for private consumers to re-sell alcohol in this province unless it is done at the annual Vintages auction (with fees high enough to result in a loss on any sales). If you want to engage in illegal activities to make $20-30 per bottle, go ahead clueless. Where did I say Montrose is crap clueless? Where did I say noone would buy it, did I not indicate the exact opposite clueless? It was not my cup of tea, and not worth $170 per bottle to me. I am fully entitled to return the wine for a complete refund, per LCBO policy. Would you not do the same, clueless? If I did not have it and did want it, I would be quite pleased to see 6 bottles on the shelf at the futures price, would you not agree with this? What gave you the impression that my cellar has any Malbec in it, and would it be worth insulting me if I did enjoy such wine?

I will trade you one 2005 Conti St Vivant plus the 6 Montrose for the la Tache.
Yes, Popcorn indeed!

quote:
Originally posted by jovin:
...Be careful, the LCBO could shut you down the next time you place large orders which will partially be returned. ...


Why would they shut him down? He's playing by LCBO's own rules and the way they release new products absolutely encourages the buy more and return later strategy. The LCBO would have to be pretty ignorant not to see this coming.
quote:
Originally posted by Stevey:
Yes, Popcorn indeed!

quote:
Originally posted by jovin:
...Be careful, the LCBO could shut you down the next time you place large orders which will partially be returned. ...


Why would they shut him down? He's playing by LCBO's own rules and the way they release new products absolutely encourages the buy more and return later strategy. The LCBO would have to be pretty ignorant not to see this coming.


LCBO confirms:

1. The store was mistaken about stolen credit card policy. I was told that the loss of a cc is such a common occurrence, it would be unreasonable to maintain a policy that did not allow returns in such cases.

2. It is policy for consumers to be able to return any products to any store

3. It should not be my concern that a store might have trouble reselling returned products, because if they have trouble then they can transfer to another store or back to the warehouse (but given #4 below I will not have to bring them back to my small local store, and would not want to burden them with bottles selling for more than those that they typically stock)

4. As someone else posted, it is not correct that classics/futures must be returned to the store at which delivery was taken.

I am fine if someone wants to criticize me for returning bottles, but the 2 that did really did not say anything of substance, did not say anything constructive, and attributed statements/facts to me that were inconsistent with what I posted, or were simply not facts that were presented for them to know or understand. Sorry to waste peoples time with this thread an with responding to those posters that are unlikely to be able to engage in a reasonable, if slightly heated, logical discussion.
quote:
Originally posted by theweb:
I have also returned product from time to time, but I'm not sure I understand the wisdom of airing what you are returning on this Forum.

Maybe there should be a new thread started each month called "WHAT ARE YOU RETURNING" Big Grin


I was only posting to make note of the hassle/problem...could have happened if I returned 1 bottle of something. Airing what I was returning was only peripherally related to the issue, in part because of the total value of what I planned to return.

I would love to see a WHAT ARE YOU RETURNING thread, lots of goodies that many of us would like to purchase for futures prices/earlier release prices, but normally only hear about these after it is too late to be able to buy them. Knowing of returns in good condition at prior prices would be very useful info.
quote:
Originally posted by Machine:
quote:
Originally posted by theweb:
I have also returned product from time to time, but I'm not sure I understand the wisdom of airing what you are returning on this Forum.

Maybe there should be a new thread started each month called "WHAT ARE YOU RETURNING" Big Grin


I was only posting to make note of the hassle/problem...could have happened if I returned 1 bottle of something. Airing what I was returning was only peripherally related to the issue, in part because of the total value of what I planned to return.

I would love to see a WHAT ARE YOU RETURNING thread, lots of goodies that many of us would like to purchase for futures prices/earlier release prices, but normally only hear about these after it is too late to be able to buy them. Knowing of returns in good condition at prior prices would be very useful info.


Not a bad idea actually Smile
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Originally posted by theweb:
quote:
Originally posted by Machine:
quote:
Originally posted by theweb:
I have also returned product from time to time, but I'm not sure I understand the wisdom of airing what you are returning on this Forum.

Maybe there should be a new thread started each month called "WHAT ARE YOU RETURNING" Big Grin


I was only posting to make note of the hassle/problem...could have happened if I returned 1 bottle of something. Airing what I was returning was only peripherally related to the issue, in part because of the total value of what I planned to return.

I would love to see a WHAT ARE YOU RETURNING thread, lots of goodies that many of us would like to purchase for futures prices/earlier release prices, but normally only hear about these after it is too late to be able to buy them. Knowing of returns in good condition at prior prices would be very useful info.


Not a bad idea actually Smile


You get credit for the idea...but too bad about the long drive from Sarnia to Summerhill store to find those goodies!
quote:
Originally posted by Mimik:
So in honour of the future "what are you returning" thread, I'd like to thank whoever returned some 2001 leoville barton and some 2003 chateau Tour Blanche and some 2001s Suduirauts to the Bayview LCBO a week ago or so.

Thank you!!


Sarnia to Summerhill is around the corner compared to Montreal to Bayview !!!!! Big Grin

Gibby
Machine - Are you always so defensive and hostile to anyone who disagrees with your rants?

You returned approximately 15% of your wine purchases - not because of any of the wines were corked or defective – but because you think the LCBO's policy allows you to. In reality, you're taking advantage of the system and not considering that your actions are costing the LCBO (and me, as a customer, by extension) and depriving legitimate collectors from high demand wines with limited supplies.

The onus is on you to buy the right win and be accountable for your purchases - not to claim a "mulligan" or an “oopsie” because Parker has changed his score on a couple of Bordeaux he tasted en primeur or because you don't like how a wine that's meant to be aged for a few more years currently tastes.
It is at moments like this that I pride myself in being Canadian. We can have a heated debate and still remain civil about it.

My 2 cents. I think a lot of the dissent occurs around how one qualifies the return policy of bottles to the LCBO; either as a right or as a privilege. If it is seen as a right, then Machine is correct in bitching about what he experienced. If you see the returns as a privilege, then one can understandably consider such a move as being aggressive.

Personally, the LCBO offers a way better return policy than the SAQ. Here, you have 30 days to return for refund an unopened bottle for cash/credit, and up to a year for cash/credit if it is faulty(receipt in hand). Without a receipt, only credit is available to you as an option and generally within a year of its being sold.

So while I see it more as a privilege, I think that even Machine, you would agree that if all of a sudden tons of people did the same thing that you did, would you not expect maybe a change in policy by the LCBO?
quote:
Originally posted by Duojet:
Machine - Are you always so defensive and hostile to anyone who disagrees with your rants?

You returned approximately 15% of your wine purchases - not because of any of the wines were corked or defective – but because you think the LCBO's policy allows you to. In reality, you're taking advantage of the system and not considering that your actions are costing the LCBO (and me, as a customer, by extension) and depriving legitimate collectors from high demand wines with limited supplies.

The onus is on you to buy the right win and be accountable for your purchases - not to claim a "mulligan" or an “oopsie” because Parker has changed his score on a couple of Bordeaux he tasted en primeur or because you don't like how a wine that's meant to be aged for a few more years currently tastes.


I am defensive and hostile to people who make assinine and baseless accusations without logic and without providing any evidence or reason to backup what they say, i.e. you. If you buy large amounts of wine that you decide are not to your taste or you believe were overrated and not worth the money, and you do not return them to the LCBO for a refund, you are an absolute idiot.

You seem to be suggesting that I am not a legitimate collector because I return wines that I do not like or were downgraded; this is absolutely ludicrous. Is it your contention that if I buy a case of wine and it turns out that I do not like the wine, I must drink that wine, even when the LCBO has no official problem with me returning the wine for a full refund? Would I also not be a legitimate collector if I chose to sell wines that I purchased but did not enjoy? How about if I made gifts of such wines? I buy wines I think I will like, I keep wines that I am certain I like, that way I end up with a cellar filled with wines that I know (or regarding which I am fairly certain that) I like. So why exactly am I not a legitimate collector?

Can you explain to me exactly how returning high-demand wines with limited supplies to the LCBO deprives "legitimate" collectors from these wines? If they are so high demand, then when I return them they will presumably by purchased very quickly, by purchasers happy to get them at initial offering prices. If you buy them when I return them, you and your fellow clueless legitimate collector buddies can buy those wines, and you will not have been deprived of them. If you buy them, what have you lost, what have I taken away from you? If you buy them, what has the LCBO lost, would they not have still made the sale? If I buy them and keep them, what has the LCBO lost?

Maybe you are suggesting that by buying more than a bottle at a time, I have deprived you and your legitimate collector buddies from getting your precious, precious wine. If I was able to buy them, would you have not been similarly able to buy them instead of me, or side by side with me? If you were similarly able to buy them instead of me or side by side with me, then how have I deprived you of these wines? If I buy them and return them and you do not buy them, clearly they were not so high demand. In that case, the LCBO may have to wait longer to sell them, but if the price that they were charging was inflated in relation to my perceived quality of the wine, or too high compared to the eventual final rating consensus among professional reviewers and others that I trust, then the LCBO should expect that I follow their clearly and repeatedly stated policy that consumers can return any wines to any store at any time for any reason as long as they have a receipt and the wines are in saleable condition. What is your method of collection, do you have a lovely cellar full of wines that you do not like, for which you paid too much, but which you are unwilling to return? What if I like some of those wines, are you not depriving me of those wines by failing to return them to the store? If there is any merit whatsoever to anything that you have said in any of your posts, please point it out to me, because I do not see it.

And please don't try to pull the 'how the wine currently tastes' b.s. with me (you are not Board-O and I am not Drab), I know the taste/structure profile that I am interested in, tasting notes are based on what the wines taste like when they were tasted, and are usually accompanied by predictions of future quality based on current characteristics. I buy wines that are reputed to have current characteristics that match the taste profile that I prefer now, if I taste the wines and they do not have such a taste profile, I may choose to then return the wines, and I don't see anything wrong with that. If you see something wrong with that then there is clearly something wrong with you.

As I said before you are completely clueless, and obviously do not have the cranial capacity to be involved in this discussion. Furthermore, your pathetic attempt at reasoning out some criticism against me is so laden with contradiction, ignorance, and stupidity that I find it hard to even believe that you are truly here to make a point on something...and in fact I suggest that you are nothing more than a troll. Go back under your bridge troll, see if another troll will grant you a wish, and please ask for a brain.

p.s. 4000/30000 is not 15%.
quote:
Originally posted by Mimik:
It is at moments like this that I pride myself in being Canadian. We can have a heated debate and still remain civil about it.

My 2 cents. I think a lot of the dissent occurs around how one qualifies the return policy of bottles to the LCBO; either as a right or as a privilege. If it is seen as a right, then Machine is correct in bitching about what he experienced. If you see the returns as a privilege, then one can understandably consider such a move as being aggressive.

Personally, the LCBO offers a way better return policy than the SAQ. Here, you have 30 days to return for refund an unopened bottle for cash/credit, and up to a year for cash/credit if it is faulty(receipt in hand). Without a receipt, only credit is available to you as an option and generally within a year of its being sold.

So while I see it more as a privilege, I think that even Machine, you would agree that if all of a sudden tons of people did the same thing that you did, would you not expect maybe a change in policy by the LCBO?


Perhaps there would be a change in policy, perhaps not. If the wines being returned were quality, high-demand wines that were reasonably priced, any returned wines would quickly be purchased by other consumers, with no effect on the LCBO's bottom line, besides the administrative costs of processing returns. If the wines being returned were not quality, high-demand wines that were reasonably priced, then the LCBO should have priced them differently, or should not have purchased them from suppliers in the first place, and not be surprised that people are returning the wines. I am not returning wines that I perceive to be delicious and well priced.

If the LCBO does change their policy, I will buy a lot less wines, and so will a lot of other people in my opinion. I do in fact drink a lot of wines that have borderline acceptable QPR's; if I bought a case of such a wine, I might end up keeping it even though I could return it (too lazy to return, having such wines is a good excuse to drink more wine, pop a bottle or two during the week, etc.); if I bought a case, it was because I had confidence in LCBO's return policy to support me if the wine did not meet my expectations; if they did not have the policy I would not have bought a case of the wine; if I bought one bottle with borderline QPR I would not then go buy 11 more bottles; so if LCBO changes their return policy I will buy less of such wines. I have a lot of wine because I buy wines I like and keep the ones that I like (and some that are borderline as I said); if I had less access to wines that I knew I liked and believed to be at a good price, I would not replace those missed purchases with lesser wines, and would have a smaller cellar.

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