Crazy stuff - here
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Fantastic! 
WILM:
Are you selling? I don't have much Lafite (single bottles of 95, 96, 00, 01 and 02) and never purchased wine to flip, but if someone came to my door and offered me these prices I would be crazy not to seriously consider.
Are you selling? I don't have much Lafite (single bottles of 95, 96, 00, 01 and 02) and never purchased wine to flip, but if someone came to my door and offered me these prices I would be crazy not to seriously consider.
I feel the same way. It is becoming tempting.
Anyone else thinks this resembles the housing bubble?
yes and no. big difference being that the houses were purchased with highly leveraged funds, and with the pure intention of turning a profit.
unless i'm mistaken, these bottles need to be paid for in full at auction end, so at the very end the owner still owns something. the asset may be over-valued, but you own it. in the case of the housing bubble, nobody but the banks owned anything.
i definitely think there's a huge bubble, and we may see some correction. but i doubt we will see a massive implosion unless the very wealthy buyers of these wines go completely bankrupt, along with the next 1,000 extremely wealthy people standing a line right behind them who were just outbid.
unless i'm mistaken, these bottles need to be paid for in full at auction end, so at the very end the owner still owns something. the asset may be over-valued, but you own it. in the case of the housing bubble, nobody but the banks owned anything.
i definitely think there's a huge bubble, and we may see some correction. but i doubt we will see a massive implosion unless the very wealthy buyers of these wines go completely bankrupt, along with the next 1,000 extremely wealthy people standing a line right behind them who were just outbid.
Jorge, my point is the prices are at the point where the "next 1,000 extremely wealthy people standing a line right behind them who were just outbid" are no longer there. The prices are going up to the point where there are no buyers, like housing. The fact that houses were purchased with leveraged funds was irrelevant until they ran out of buyers to flip to. At some point the same thing will happen here. The cellars will fill up and there wont be any more buyers at that price point.
There is no rationalization in auction prices any longer. If that spreads to retail a collapse will soon follow.
Here is an example from last weekend in Chicago. I went to the HDH live auction. I had my eye on a couple of lots. I did my researcher before hand and had extensive notes on avg auction prices, what they were going for at retail, ect. A 2 bottle lot of 1985 Krug went for $950, not including the 20% buyers premium. There are bottles on wine searcher for well under $350. I was sitting at the table next to the guy who won and every time he raised his paddle I had to resist the urge to reach over and slap it out of his hand.
I buy some really expensive wine. Im not bragging, but I do. I buy more expensive wine than anyone I know except some of people on this board. I am now priced out of Lafite and the rest of the first growths arent far behind. Eventually the Asian market will find the next cool thing and prices will plummet.
There is no rationalization in auction prices any longer. If that spreads to retail a collapse will soon follow.
Here is an example from last weekend in Chicago. I went to the HDH live auction. I had my eye on a couple of lots. I did my researcher before hand and had extensive notes on avg auction prices, what they were going for at retail, ect. A 2 bottle lot of 1985 Krug went for $950, not including the 20% buyers premium. There are bottles on wine searcher for well under $350. I was sitting at the table next to the guy who won and every time he raised his paddle I had to resist the urge to reach over and slap it out of his hand.
I buy some really expensive wine. Im not bragging, but I do. I buy more expensive wine than anyone I know except some of people on this board. I am now priced out of Lafite and the rest of the first growths arent far behind. Eventually the Asian market will find the next cool thing and prices will plummet.
I do think that the Lafite bubble will burst at some point. In the meantime, my internal debate is whether to sell my (somewhat meager) stock of Lafite at these outrageous prices.
I probably won't, in the end. But who can resist such profits?
I probably won't, in the end. But who can resist such profits?
If the emerging markets are still at infancy then only stands to reason that there's a ton more growth and a ton more multi-millionaires to be churned out.
I don't see this slowing down anytime soon
Still, those prices are hard to resist not taking advantage of
I don't see this slowing down anytime soon
Still, those prices are hard to resist not taking advantage of
If you had six bottles of Lafite, 1996 and 2000, where would you sell them? Maybe thats another thread, sorry
Hi All.
I am a regular reader of the forums, even though I don't participate often.
I am always interested in 1st growth for my collection. If any of you are interested in selling you can reach me at WineJones at Gmail.com
send me your list and price. I don't believe in the auction values, but I have no problem paying fair market for well stored bottles. I figure that most of you walk the walk as much as talk the talk.
I look forward to hearing from you.
I am a regular reader of the forums, even though I don't participate often.
I am always interested in 1st growth for my collection. If any of you are interested in selling you can reach me at WineJones at Gmail.com
send me your list and price. I don't believe in the auction values, but I have no problem paying fair market for well stored bottles. I figure that most of you walk the walk as much as talk the talk.
I look forward to hearing from you.
I'm just glad I bought what I did, when I did it. I hate to think what the bottles of 1897 and 1912 would have sold for if they were offered from the chateau. I could have retired! I'm very happy I have some stashed away for future consumption with friends.
Hello Friend!quote:Originally posted by DoktaP:
I'm just glad I bought what I did, when I did it. I hate to think what the bottles of 1897 and 1912 would have sold for if they were offered from the chateau. I could have retired! I'm very happy I have some stashed away for future consumption with friends.
quote:Originally posted by jburman82:
Jorge, my point is the prices are at the point where the "next 1,000 extremely wealthy people standing a line right behind them who were just outbid" are no longer there. The prices are going up to the point where there are no buyers, like housing. The fact that houses were purchased with leveraged funds was irrelevant until they ran out of buyers to flip to. At some point the same thing will happen here. The cellars will fill up and there wont be any more buyers at that price point.
There is no rationalization in auction prices any longer. If that spreads to retail a collapse will soon follow.
Here is an example from last weekend in Chicago. I went to the HDH live auction. I had my eye on a couple of lots. I did my researcher before hand and had extensive notes on avg auction prices, what they were going for at retail, ect. A 2 bottle lot of 1985 Krug went for $950, not including the 20% buyers premium. There are bottles on wine searcher for well under $350. I was sitting at the table next to the guy who won and every time he raised his paddle I had to resist the urge to reach over and slap it out of his hand.
I buy some really expensive wine. Im not bragging, but I do. I buy more expensive wine than anyone I know except some of people on this board. I am now priced out of Lafite and the rest of the first growths arent far behind. Eventually the Asian market will find the next cool thing and prices will plummet.
but that's the thing, from what i'm gathering, there are still plenty of people willing to pay the high prices. the Krug auction only got to $950 because there was someone right behind him willing to pay $900.
i don't think there's any argument that prices are extremely high, but at this point in time, the demand continues to exist.
like theweb said, so many markets are growing so rapidly around the world, that i just don't see a slowdown. China's GDP was considered "sluggish" this last reported quarter with just under 10% growth, India grew just under 7% during the "global economic meltdown" of 2009, and Brazil is a sleeping dragon.
a lot more people are able to play in the wine market now at a level where prices don't matter, and that's what drives things completely out of wack.
what i'm truly curious about, and completely clueless, is whether or not the people buying these wines are buying them to flip, or buying them because they have boatloads of money and are just collecting trophies / something nice to make sangria with.
if the people buying these wines are "investing" in them, then i can see a pretty big collapse, but from what i've read, the buyers are just rich people who don't care. they're buying wine as a luxury, not as an investment. if they can flip it a year later, great, if they can't then they'll just drink it up and not care less.
either way, totally sucks... all i can afford now are the yellowtail replicas
btw, working on heat tix for saturday....
I made some inquiries today and have commissioned a high end picture framer to design an ornate wall mounted picture frame that will hold a bottle of lafite in the centre of the frame, held by almost invisible twine.
I'm going to hang it in my cellar - I've always said fine wine is in the same category as fine art, so might as well have Lafite art on my wall
I'm going to hang it in my cellar - I've always said fine wine is in the same category as fine art, so might as well have Lafite art on my wall
Lafite is now the Cristal of Bordeaux, I guess.
Vegas serves more '82 Petrus per year than was made in total.
Cristal is the sparkling wine of hippity hoppers.
Lafite is idiomatic Chinese for "Let's do business."
I blame Robert Parker.
Vegas serves more '82 Petrus per year than was made in total.
Cristal is the sparkling wine of hippity hoppers.
Lafite is idiomatic Chinese for "Let's do business."
I blame Robert Parker.
quote:Originally posted by WineJones1:
Hi All.
I am a regular reader of the forums, even though I don't participate often.
I am always interested in 1st growth for my collection. If any of you are interested in selling you can reach me at WineJones at Gmail.com
send me your list and price. I don't believe in the auction values, but I have no problem paying fair market for well stored bottles. I figure that most of you walk the walk as much as talk the talk.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Based on the article (and if my conversion factor of 1.6 $ to pound is correct) a bottle of 00 Lafite would be selling for about $12k
! that would get my attention. Otherwise, I will hang on to the few that I have and enjoy them myself someday. Welcome to the forums.quote:Originally posted by Red guy in a blue state:
WILM:
Are you selling?
Not quite. I just sent off a case of 2000 Carruades in OWC to auction to ride the coat tails of big brother Lafite.
quote:WineJones1
Hmm...your name sound vaguely familiar. Any old timers see a resemblance?
Was there a small island involved? And maybe some art?
quote:Originally posted by jburman82:
Anyone else thinks this resembles the housing bubble?
How can I short wine?...
quote:Originally posted by The Analyst:quote:Originally posted by jburman82:
Anyone else thinks this resembles the housing bubble?
How can I short wine?...
www.live-ex.com
I'm failry certain that there are a couple of houses in the UK that will take the other side.
quote:Originally posted by wineismylife:quote:WineJones1
Hmm...your name sound vaguely familiar. Any old timers see a resemblance?
Did JWI get banned?
It's probably a regular poster here posting under another name.
quote:Originally posted by The Cabernet of Doctor Caligari:
Cristaliswas the sparkling wine of hippity hoppers.
(not that anybody cares). . .
quote:Originally posted by wineismylife:quote:WineJones1
Hmm...your name sound vaguely familiar. Any old timers see a resemblance?
Nah, I am fairly sure it's a certain ITB guy from Carlsbad.....
Back on topic.....
Early return shows that Sotheby's Lafite chateau direct auction result is a one time anomaly. That particular auction was held in Hong Kong on Oct 29th. The day after on 30th, Sotheby's had another auction in Hong Kong featuring a collection from SK Group Networks(South Korean Company). While the Lafite prices in this auction was still higher than market, it did have a significant drop overnight. For example, the 2003 Lafite was down 32% comparing the two auctions. The residual crowd from the day before probably drove the price above market on the 30th.
Acker just had their auction in Hong Kong on November 5th, looks like the Lafite prices are back to "normal".....
Early return shows that Sotheby's Lafite chateau direct auction result is a one time anomaly. That particular auction was held in Hong Kong on Oct 29th. The day after on 30th, Sotheby's had another auction in Hong Kong featuring a collection from SK Group Networks(South Korean Company). While the Lafite prices in this auction was still higher than market, it did have a significant drop overnight. For example, the 2003 Lafite was down 32% comparing the two auctions. The residual crowd from the day before probably drove the price above market on the 30th.
Acker just had their auction in Hong Kong on November 5th, looks like the Lafite prices are back to "normal".....
ANyone mention the '82 Lafite, case went somewhere in the neighborhood of high 70's for a case, thanks to our asian friends!
This almost reminds me of the 1980's, when the Japanese economy was soaring and land values in Tokyo alone exceeded the entire U.S.
Everyone was bemoaning the decline and fall of the U.S.
And the Japanese were paying outrageous prices for U.S. assets, like properties in Hawaii and NY (Rockefeller Center was a well-known buy). Well, that didn't last long, and the bubble burst.
So, if the Asians want to spend outrageous amounts for Lafite, let them. Maybe it will help adjust the trade balance.
Everyone was bemoaning the decline and fall of the U.S.
And the Japanese were paying outrageous prices for U.S. assets, like properties in Hawaii and NY (Rockefeller Center was a well-known buy). Well, that didn't last long, and the bubble burst.
So, if the Asians want to spend outrageous amounts for Lafite, let them. Maybe it will help adjust the trade balance.
Good Grief! Nuances of taste are expensive! Basically, people are paying for the Lafite name and Label, and not the juice. Lafite isn't even among my favorites of the First Growths, and often comes in last place, for me.
I hope you don't mind me asking, but I been considering selling as well. Which auction house did you send your wine to. How much did it sell for and how much did they charge you. Were you happy with the transaction??? Thanks
quote:Originally posted by wineismylife:quote:Originally posted by Red guy in a blue state:
WILM:
Are you selling?
Not quite. I just sent off a case of 2000 Carruades in OWC to auction to ride the coat tails of big brother Lafite.
quote:Originally posted by Rothko:
This almost reminds me of the 1980's, when the Japanese economy was soaring and land values in Tokyo alone exceeded the entire U.S.
Everyone was bemoaning the decline and fall of the U.S.
And the Japanese were paying outrageous prices for U.S. assets, like properties in Hawaii and NY (Rockefeller Center was a well-known buy). Well, that didn't last long, and the bubble burst.
So, if the Asians want to spend outrageous amounts for Lafite, let them. Maybe it will help adjust the trade balance.
Rothko, missed you at the BCLC 30th annoversary party. We'll have to catch up soon.
quote:Originally posted by Beachrooster:
I hope you don't mind me asking, but I been considering selling as well. Which auction house did you send your wine to. How much did it sell for and how much did they charge you. Were you happy with the transaction??? Thanksquote:Originally posted by wineismylife:quote:Originally posted by Red guy in a blue state:
WILM:
Are you selling?
Not quite. I just sent off a case of 2000 Carruades in OWC to auction to ride the coat tails of big brother Lafite.
wiml, hope you don't mind me answering this.
Beachrooster, wiml's case of Carruades de Lafite is part of our Winter Live Auctions on December 5th. I work for Spectrum Wine Auctions which is just down the street from you, we are located in Irvine.
Seller's commission starts at 10% and goes down based on the total value of your consignment.
I am currently traveling and will be back in the office next week. If you would like to shoot me an e-mail or give me a call, we can chat further on what you would like to do.
Regards.
Powell Yang
e-mail: "my moniker" at spectrumwine dot com
888.982.1982 ext 187
Beachrooster, what Powell said. So far, we're good to go. Once the auction closes, checks are cut, etc...I'll report back but everything is A-OK so far.
So far, we're good to go. Once the auction closes, checks are cut, etc...I'll report back but everything is A-OK so far. quote:Originally posted by wineismylife:
Beachrooster, what Powell said.
In case you weren't paying attention last night, your case of 2000 Carruades de Lafite hammered at $5,000
Wow! Speechless here
That's just insane. Good for you wiml.
quote:Originally posted by Gigond Ass:
That's just insane. Good for you wiml.
+1 on both counts
I guess selling our lafite is one way of getting some of our money back from the Chinese
Wow. Go wilm!
I was at one of my LWSs the other day. they are consigning a collection of various Bordeaux, mostly from 03 and 04. He had already sold most of it to a buyer from Hong Kong. I asked about my one bottle of 00 Lafite. He said that I could easily sell it for about $2400 minus commission. very tempting....
I was at one of my LWSs the other day. they are consigning a collection of various Bordeaux, mostly from 03 and 04. He had already sold most of it to a buyer from Hong Kong. I asked about my one bottle of 00 Lafite. He said that I could easily sell it for about $2400 minus commission. very tempting....