mangiare posted:

For the record,  I don’t think he’s a racist.  Just a colossal fraud and an even bigger hypocrite.  

^THIS ^

and CSM and i hope the Canadian public see’s this as well. 

Rob, seems to be a real trend in politics these days 

I’m not following Canadian politics too much these days on account of having my plate full with U.S. and U.K. craziness. I assume these assessments are about more than this brown/blackface nonsense. What is going on?  I know Trudeau has been seen as painfully “woke” but apart from that, I had thought most liked him. What are the gripes?  I’m really curious to know — we’re just not getting any news about him or Canadian politics down here. Thanks!

Surprised that so many politicians have been rail roaded out of office for this.  when I was in high School in the 50's the old black face bands and banjo stuff was popular.  We had many blacks in school, and they said they enjoyed it.  Times have changed in 60 years

sunnylea57 posted:

Poor choices all around in this election. But there is no way in hell I will give my vote to smarmy Andrew Scheer - he who is determined to turn the clock back to 1950, especially if you’re a woman or LGBTQ. Eff you, Scheer.

Even if this was the case, and I’m not entirely sure it is, that’s certainly not a sentiment unique to the Conservatives.  Many of the higher ups in the liberal party have shown themselves to be less than progressive on lgbtq issues and Trudeau himself was less of a friend to women than he purported to be when it came down to brass tacks.  Moreover the constitution and the Supreme Court wouldn’t ever allow it to happen, assuming Scheer did have such a secret plan, and I personally don’t think he does as it’s really a non-starter of an issue in Canada. 

winetarelli posted:
mangiare posted:

For the record,  I don’t think he’s a racist.  Just a colossal fraud and an even bigger hypocrite.  

^THIS ^

and CSM and i hope the Canadian public see’s this as well. 

Rob, seems to be a real trend in politics these days 

I’m not following Canadian politics too much these days on account of having my plate full with U.S. and U.K. craziness. I assume these assessments are about more than this brown/blackface nonsense. What is going on?  I know Trudeau has been seen as painfully “woke” but apart from that, I had thought most liked him. What are the gripes?  I’m really curious to know — we’re just not getting any news about him or Canadian politics down here. Thanks!

For starters, he portrays himself as a feminist. But threw the 2 highest females out of his cabinet when they dared exhibit independent thought and didn’t do what they were told. And he’s made a habit of lecturing Canadians, and the rest of the world for that matter, on what is appropriate behaviour vis a vis race and diversity.  And there are at least 3 documented examples of him dressing up in blackface.   Again, I don’t think he’s a racist. It’s just awful judgement and a further example of his hypocrisy. Which is exacerbated by the fact that he and the Liberal party have called on Conservative candidates and MPs to resign for insensitive tweets because “people don’t change.”  But because he apologized, finally, and not terribly sincerely, he deserves a second chance.  But only him  

He’s privileged and spoiled and he doesn’t think the rules apply to him.  Not to mention he’s thoroughly unqualified for the job. 

Scheer has made his views on same sex marriage and abortion very clear. Granted it was years ago, but when asked about his personal views recently - repeatedly - he has prevaricated.

It’s simple for me: I will not support someone who has such socially conservative - no, strike that - socially regressive views.

I'd support Elizabeth May - she’s looking like the least offensive candidate - but the Green Party’s platform leaves a lot to be desired. Not that she has a hope of winning - although the Green Party should pick up some seats.

Sunnylea, I share your views and fundamentally agree with the fact that we are and should be an open and inclusive society. I'm very proud of our inclusiveness and cannot imagine any other way of living. 

 However, this is Canada and imo there is no way we can regress socially regardless of our political leader. It's really not in our DNA. I know this may sound naive but does our PM really  tilt the pendulum socially in any signifiant manner? We've experienced polar opposites between Harper and Trudeau and has anything signifiant really changed in any of our lives? slightly higher taxes? bigger deficit maybe? more lefty's preaching at universities? but big picture not really considering what's going on to the south of us. 

I do think we will fall further behind on an economic and political standpoint with an under qualified white water rafting instructor leading us. Options do not look encouraging.     

sunnylea57 posted:

Scheer has made his views on same sex marriage and abortion very clear. Granted it was years ago, but when asked about his personal views recently - repeatedly - he has prevaricated.

True.  He also said that the issue is settled in Canada and that he would respect the rule of law and has no interest in re-opening the same sex marriage or abortion issues.  I don’t agree with his personal views that he espoused in 2005 (and that he most likely still holds let’s be honest) but I take him at his word that he’ll do what he said on these 2 issues.  Because they are settled as a matter of law. The debate is over. 

Taking a politician at his word (especially a weasel like Scheer)? Holding your nose and closing your eyes and thinking "how much harm can he really do?" That hasn't worked so well with Dougie. Or his brother before that. Or... Or... 

And thinking that a politician can't swing the social pendulum? 😬 We're not immune just because "Canada". Except for the big cities, we're a more regressively conservative (I'm being polite, but the first track from Randy Newman's "Good Old Boys" album comes to mind) country than we like to think.

I think I'm a social liberal and generally a fiscal conservative. But I also consider our education and health care systems to be social programs, and they're being pillaged under the guise of "fiscal responsibility".

Trudeau has messed up. And personally, he has been hypocritical. But he and his party have also achieved quite a bit. I'll copy and paste a few of the accomplishments:

"...moved to legislate pay equity in the federal sector, made the national anthem gender-neutral, enshrined in law protections for transgender people, and required gender-based analysis to be conducted on major policies... pledged to increase international aid spending for women’s health and promoted the status of women portfolio to a full department for Women and Gender Equality (WAGE) ... legalization of marijuana ... bringing in more than 40,000 Syrian refugees ... In 2018 Canada resettled more refugees than any other country. While this embrace of asylum seekers, refugees, and immigrants hasn’t been without issues, the target for millions of new Canadians in the coming years will have a real and lasting impact on the country ... Secured a pan-Canadian agreement on reducing emissions and rolled out a carbon tax. The Liberals also put money towards low carbon infrastructure, protected more marine and costal areas, and passed legislation to overhaul environmental assessment processes..."

Speaking of hypocrites, Scheer said this when the racists comments and beliefs of some in his party came to light: "As long as someone takes responsibility for what they've said and addresses the fact that in 2019 something that may have been said in the past are inappropriate today, that if anything that they've ever said in the past caused any type of hurt or disrespect to one community or another and have apologized for that, I accept that."

Yet this is what he said about Trudeau: "I was extremely shocked and disappointed ... wearing blackface is an act of open mockery and racism. It was just as racist in 2001 as it is in 2019. And what Canadians saw this evening is someone with a complete lack of judgement and integrity, and someone who's not fit to govern this country."  😂 😂

Scheer will NOT get my vote.

Ever since the MTH board was removed I have stayed away from political threads on this forum, but this one has drawn me in.

I have never been a fan of Trudeau (aka Ron Wood Jr.). We wouldn't even be discussing him if it wasn't for his last name and that happens to be one that I don't care much for because I thought his father was an egotistical dick. While I don't disagree with Sunnylea's list of Liberal accomplishments since the party has been in power, RWJr has proven to be a poor leader. My biggest problem with him has been his broken promise of transparency, of which the nadir is the SNC affair and everything that goes with it, including the omnibus passage of the Deferred Prosecution bill, the resignations of the two key female cabinet ministers, the lies and now the refusal to allow the RCMP to investigate. The blackface incidents pale in comparison to SNC imo, but they certainly show the silver-spoon-up-the-ass place he comes from. He should resign and the Liberals should acclaim Freeland as leader and PM, although that could make this election a little chaotic for them.

Scheer. Is he really the best the Cons could dig up? I do agree with Mangiare and CSM about his position on abortion and same-sex marriage. We know he's against both but he's said he accepts the current laws. Definitely a hypocrite towards Trudeau's blackface past given his forgiveness of  some of his candidates for similar or worse transgressions. More importantly, the Cons policies on many issues are extremely vague, even 4 weeks away from the election.

I don't know who I'm going to vote for yet although it doesn't really matter much. The Liberals could nominate Curious George in our riding and still win by thousands of votes. I'd like to see a minority government, except that rarely works out because most of our politicians don't really give a shit about the service they are supposed to be providing to us so compromise is not in their vocabulary.

Why I like the idea of a liberal minority is that they might hopefully see that they lost a majority because of Trudeau and replace him and the Conservatives will see that Sheer even campaigning against the blackface snowboard instructor can't win and replace him. Then when we have a snap election in the next year or so we get some new blood.

The likelihood of getting two new, qualified leaders to run in the next election is massively low but we currently have no qualified leaders to potentially run the country so...

What I wouldn't do for John Tory as PM...

robsutherland posted:

Why I like the idea of a liberal minority is that they might hopefully see that they lost a majority because of Trudeau and replace him and the Conservatives will see that Sheer even campaigning against the blackface snowboard instructor can't win and replace him. Then when we have a snap election in the next year or so we get some new blood.

The likelihood of getting two new, qualified leaders to run in the next election is massively low but we currently have no qualified leaders to potentially run the country so...

What I wouldn't do for John Tory as PM...

This ^^  👍🏼👍🏼

It’s very unfortunate the PC’s couldn’t find a progressive and dynamic mind to lead their party. 

The sports writer Cathal Kelly published an interview with Scheer in the Globe today and I’m not sure I how feel about it.  Over the past year, I keep thinking there must be more to this guy and I’m just missing something but after reading it, doesn’t look like it. 

Sunnylea, anything is better for our province than Wynne and McGuinty. 

mangiare posted:

 

Sunnylea, anything is better for our province than Wynne and McGuinty. 

I would argue that out Grade 10 drop-out, former hash dealer of a premier is no better than the last retched two (or really how far back do we go? Ontario hasn't been blessed with good management, maybe David Peterson in the late 80's?). 

robsutherland posted:

Why I like the idea of a liberal minority is that they might hopefully see that they lost a majority because of Trudeau and replace him and the Conservatives will see that Sheer even campaigning against the blackface snowboard instructor can't win and replace him. Then when we have a snap election in the next year or so we get some new blood.

The likelihood of getting two new, qualified leaders to run in the next election is massively low but we currently have no qualified leaders to potentially run the country so...

What I wouldn't do for John Tory as PM...

Well said. Except for John Tory as I don’t know his politics but after Rob Ford, anyone would look like an angel.

Steve 8 flagged this discussion to me, knowing that I'm a political junkie, and wondering why I hadn't jumped in.  Fact is it never occurred to me that there could be a discussion on Canadian politics here.  Happy to see it!  But I expect that he (and others) may wish he'd never brought it to my attention!

My view is that there are only two parties who can form the government after Monday, the Conservatives or the Liberals.  As a life-long slightly left-of-centre (by Canadian standards) progressive voter there is no question which party will get my vote.  It's a stark choice:  a progressive government or one that is very much not.
 
Under Scheer's leadership, it looks like the Conservatives are back to being the Reform Party.  His bold-faced lies regarding increasing the GST, a 50% tax on new houses and his academic credentials remind me of the previous government's late-election desperation as shown in their Barbaric Cultural Practices Hotline. Add in the hiding of his American citizenship, which he has apparently gone to great lengths to maintain right up until the time he was caught hiding it make his personal transgressions at best no better than those of Trudeau when it comes to misbehaviour. 
 
In any case, there is too much focus on leaders in Canadian elections.  Despite what many think, aside from Stephen Harper, Prime Ministers give their Cabinet members lots of room to run things as they see fit. I know, having worked for two of them and having participated in policy-making for many others. And Trudeau gives his Ministers more latitude than most (notwithstanding the SNC Lavalin matter), according to a contact who knows very well how he and Cabinet Ministers work.
 
More important to me is the policies the parties will implement, or at least those they say they will implement.  Or those they won't.  This election the most important issue for me is climate change, especially as a parent and new grandfather.  Of the two parties that can form the next government, the choice on that issue could not be more stark:  do something or so nothing.  Again, no points for guessing which party is which! 
 
And yes, the deficit is a concern but our budget balance as a percentage of GDP, at 0.8%, is the second lowest in the G7 after Germany, unemployment is at its lowest in decades, and our interest rates and inflation remain low. And for good measure, this is what the OECD, as impartial an observer as there can be on these things, had to say about the Canadian economy in its last report: "Well-being is high in Canada, and the economy has regained momentum, supported by a rebound in exports and strengthening business investment.  Macroeconomic policies are gradually becoming less stimulatory, and budget policies are sustainable in the long term, although difficulties remain at the provincial level."
 
So, vote for another party if voting for Trudeau will keep you awake at night, or you are a social conservative, or you love or hate your local candidate.  But for me it comes down to which party, the Liberals or Conservatives, will be best for Canada going forward.  For me, it's the Liberals.

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