Bad. Doctors recommend 6 to 8 ounces per day.

I am in the middle getting down my cholesterol and BP. Anything above 8 ounces is not looked upon as beneficial.
I usually do about half a bottle, but have dropped it when I can to 1 bottle for three nights consumption.

BTW, I have been drinking since 1981 and also have recently been told I have an enlarged liver.
Really, which "Doctor" is that? It's a hotly debated issue. A friend of mine at the NIH who did one of the later studies shows that cardiologists almost want to put alcohol on the food pyramid. The study shows benefits in the rage of 6-8 OZ of EtOH a day for men, that's a bottle and a half of fairly potent red!
A full bottle a day seems like an awful lot.

For one thing, it's about 600 calories, which would add over a pound of body fat per week unless you reduced your consumption of other foods. But if you're like me, you eat more when you drink.

For another, it's about five 5-ounce glasses, enough to raise the blood alcohol level of a 160-pound man to .12, or one-and-one-half times the legal limit for driving a non-commercial vehicle. The body metabolizes about one drink per hour, so that's enough to keep you buzzed for several hours and at the DUI level for at least a couple. Habitual drinkers think they are less affected by high BAC levels, but that's largely untrue (except as compared to non-drinkers).

And then there's the liver problems. True, physicians tout the beneficial effects of alcohol on the body, but not where it's contraindicated. The negative effects are heightened if you have liver disease or if you're taking meds that are hard on the liver, such as statins or niacin.

That said, I drink 1/2 bottle per day, as does my wife, despite me taking statins and having marginal fatty liver disease. It's a lifestyle choice I've made in part because I'm more concerned about dying from heart disease. Or at least that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. For now.

Dylan Thomas said it best: "An alcoholic is someone you don't like who drinks as much as you do."
quote:
Originally posted by RDCollins:
A full bottle a day seems like an awful lot.

For one thing, it's about 600 calories, which would add over a pound of body fat per week unless you reduced your consumption of other foods. But if you're like me, you eat more when you drink.

For another, it's about five 5-ounce glasses, enough to raise the blood alcohol level of a 160-pound man to .12, or one-and-one-half times the legal limit for driving a non-commercial vehicle. The body metabolizes about one drink per hour, so that's enough to keep you buzzed for several hours and at the DUI level for at least a couple. Habitual drinkers think they are less affected by high BAC levels, but that's largely untrue (except as compared to non-drinkers).

And then there's the liver problems. True, physicians tout the beneficial effects of alcohol on the body, but not where it's contraindicated. The negative effects are heightened if you have liver disease or if you're taking meds that are hard on the liver, such as statins or niacin.

That said, I drink 1/2 bottle per day, as does my wife, despite me taking statins and having marginal fatty liver disease. It's a lifestyle choice I've made in part because I'm more concerned about dying from heart disease. Or at least that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. For now.

Dylan Thomas said it best: "An alcoholic is someone you don't like who drinks as much as you do."


One killjoy in every thread.
I'm ignoring this thread. Frown Wink

A friend of a friend was recently told by his doctor to stop drinking. Early 40's, regular drinker, but not full blown alcoholic. His liver is on the edge. That story is stuck in my mind. That would suck. "Doc, can we negotiate this? I have 700 bottles of wine in my cellar." Eek
quote:
Originally posted by Ron Natalie:
Really, which "Doctor" is that? It's a hotly debated issue. A friend of mine at the NIH who did one of the later studies shows that cardiologists almost want to put alcohol on the food pyramid. The study shows benefits in the rage of 6-8 OZ of EtOH a day for men, that's a bottle and a half of fairly potent red!


Well I need to do the calculations more carefully but from memory I agree that's between one and two thirds [6 oz of pure alcohol equivalent] and two and a quarter bottles [8 oz] of 14% ABV [Alcohol By Volume] wine.

All the studies I have read [UK, US, Dutch] would refer that to as weekly not daily consumption if statistically certain types of cardio benefit are being shown - with increased rates of death from accident and other causes like cancer and liver and kidney disease at the same level.

All these studies show a significant reduction in risk of all cause mortality for very moderate drinking versus zero consumption of alcohol but the graph climbs thereafter with mainly respiratory and certain heart disease appearing to stay down up to a moderate drinking [way less than a bottle a day] before rising again with all other causes.

I would be grateful for a reference to the study you mention since it is so far removed from anything I have seen.

However at a simpler level the amount of alcohol that can be safely consumed [whatever that amount might be] will depend on factors such as gender, size, fitness level, exercise taken routinely and at the time of ingestion of the alcohol [like dance], general health, medication being taken, and food and water intake - generally and in relation to the ingestion of the alcohol.

And at a practical level, on the %ABV of the wine you drink since there is clearly a factor of 2 difference between drinking a bottle of classic German QmP Riesling at 8% ABV and a hearty Zin at 16%.

It will also depend on the reasons people drink and their individual propensity to addiction and it would seem likely that drinking well over a bottle a day of strong wine would increase the general likelihood of dependence.

Depending on the timing, that level of consumption could also affect the ability to drive for a significant part of the day or night.

On the other hand I really like wine and drink regularly, although for reasons of weight control and general wellbeing I try to keep it to around 3 bottles of wine a week with a couple of alcohol free days in each week – except on holiday when extra exercise, usually long swims, offset [I like to believe] the extra intake.

There is no simple general rule for safely drinking a ‘toxic’ substance since for some it should be zero and for others considerably more than that. IMO we usually know what our personal level is unless we really are passed the point of no return.
6-8 oz of EtOH a day!!!!???? That would be around a 12 pk of 5% alcohol 12oz beers/day or approximately 2 bottles of 13% wine. No physician would say its ok to chronically consume a 12 pk of beer or 2 bottles of wine a day.

consuming over 3 drinks a day (chronically) and you start getting into some pretty high risk demographics.

per the NIH, too much is:
A woman who has more than 3 drinks at one time or more than 7 standard drinks a week.
A man who has more than 4 drinks at one time or more than 14 standard drinks a week.

Just like all excesses, you won't fall over next week or next year, but keep it up for 20 yrs, and see how easy it is to dry out for 6 months before you can be put on the liver transplant list.

when you see these 110 yr old italians heading down to the trattoria for their daily fix of bread and wine, its for a glass, not a bottle.
My wife and I, on average, have a bottle of red a day. (Sometimes we skip a day or even two--even three days--with no wine at all. Then we certainly "make it up" later.)
I am more concerned with the costs of having a bottle of a great tasting red per day than the health risks. Hmmmm, ... let's say a $50 bottle is consumed. (I know, I know, ....sounds high but sometimes one opens a $22 bottle and the next night one opens a
$85 bottle so .... let's just average it out to fifty). So 365 days X 50 = $18,250 per year. I have some employees that work for me that this figure is almost their YEARLY income before taxation.
By the way, ... my calculations are on a SHARED bottle of wine with your spouse... so really it is 1/2 a bottle of wine (or maybe,more like 60/40 male//female consumption). But if you are consuming two bottles of wine per day between two of you ... wow... this can be expensive.
Also, ... keep in mind every man has to die (Dire Straits/Mark Knopfler song/lyrics come to my mind) and I would rather die when I am 84 years old of a tired liver and having spent over sixty years of that life enjoying great wine (accompanied with great music--->somehow music sounds better with wine and vice versa... funny how that is...) than living to be 100 and not having any enjoyment in life.
quote:
Originally posted by woodchuck:
quote:
Originally posted by Ogopogo DUDE:
So 365 days X 50 = $18,250 per year. I have some employees that work for me that this figure is almost their YEARLY income before taxation.

Give them a raise. Then you won't feel so bad.

.... trust me, i do not feel bad nor sorry for any of my employees ... I am the one that spent ten years of university to get where i am today.
OK, a bottle a day, but when does the consumption start? At breakfast and continues throughout the day until bedtime? Or, does drinking start at 5PM local time? 750 mL spread over 12 hours is different than the same amount consumed in, say, 3 hours.
quote:
Originally posted by Ogopogo DUDE:
quote:
Originally posted by woodchuck:
quote:
Originally posted by Ogopogo DUDE:
So 365 days X 50 = $18,250 per year. I have some employees that work for me that this figure is almost their YEARLY income before taxation.

Give them a raise. Then you won't feel so bad.

.... trust me, i do not feel bad nor sorry for any of my employees ... I am the one that spent ten years of university to get where i am today.

I was only kidding Smile I know what you mean though.
A bottle a day is too much for me and, I believe, the vast majority of men regardless of age. I will drink a bottle during the week in the course of three nights and another bottle on the weekend in the course of two nights. Anything in excess of three bottles in a week will usually have bad consequences such as sluggishness at work, a hangover, or reduced resistance to viruses and germs.

Less drinking also heightens my enjoyment of wine. During the holidays, in particular, I notice that I don't look forward to it or savor the experience as much when it's part of every day - sometimes beginning right after noon. Last night I poured a half-bottle of a very nice cabernet down the sink. It was the last survivor of the dozen or so bottles popped Christmas and was beginning to turn. I couldn't bring myself to drink it just for the sake of not wasting a couple of glasses wine.

Draw the line at where it interferes with your daily life including work, relationships, time missed doing homework with the kids, and other valuable time lost either drinking or recovering from drinking. When you get to my age, you may also be more attuned to the "silent" health consequences of alcohol. You don't necessarily have to feel bad in the morning to be robbing yourself of the quantity and quality of life. I believe these things, but don't always practice them myself. Apologies for the "preachy" tone...
I don't drink alot of wine during the week but on sundays I cook for me and my roomate steve and over the course of the day we will drink 2 bottles. Not in the summer because we golf on sunday but in the winter when we are inside watching football all day and night. I don't have a hangover and we eat with the wines. I'll bet in alot of countries people drink a bottle a day and are healthy. I think junk and fast food and diet sodas are alot worse than a bottle of wine a day. And I work out at the ymca an hour every day in the morning. Razz
Every which way that I looked, there were articles regarding how bad it is to drink and to smoke... So, I decided to give up reading.

PS - I did give up smoking a decade ago... Except for a cigar on special occasions - Maybe 3 or 4 cigars a year.
quote:
Originally posted by mpls wine guy:
I don't drink alot of wine during the week but on sundays I cook for me and my roomate steve and over the course of the day we will drink 2 bottles. Not in the summer because we golf on sunday but in the winter when we are inside watching football all day and night. I don't have a hangover and we eat with the wines. I'll bet in alot of countries people drink a bottle a day and are healthy. I think junk and fast food and diet sodas are alot worse than a bottle of wine a day. And I work out at the ymca an hour every day in the morning. Razz


Larry Hagman enjoyed two bottles of champagne every day. He showed up to work on time. He was a very successful person. After over 20 years it cost him his liver.

The less fortunate stop functioning all together. Alcoholism is a horrible addiction.
quote:
Originally posted by mattm:
If you are singlehandedly drinking 28-30 bottles per month, you should probably seriously cut back, go to rehab or contact AA.


If you are responding to the Larry Hagman comment, then you math is a bit off. That would be 56-62 bottles per month. Eek
If anyone takes comfort in knowing that your alcohol consumption is average or below average compared to those who have commented on this thread, think again. Anyone posting here is, almost by definition, a wine zealot, and therefore probably not representative of the average citizen. To determine health risk is beyond the scope of this forum.

Drinking a bottle of wine per day is far more than the average citizen. The best way to determine the health ramification is to talk to your doctor who can put your consumption patterns into some perspective based on the other factors that determine health risk. You may want to see if your liver is enlarged or your liver enzyme levels are elevated.

Getting health/drinking advice on this forum is dangerous.
Any beneficial effect that wine has - which is debated in itself (see for example Jamie Goode's text on antioxidants and such in his book Wine Science) is very overstated. 1-2 glasses every day is OK, but this ONLY applies to individuals around and over the age of 50.
quote:
Also, ... keep in mind every man has to die (Dire Straits/Mark Knopfler song/lyrics come to my mind) and I would rather die when I am 84 years old of a tired liver and having spent over sixty years of that life enjoying great wine (accompanied with great music--->somehow music sounds better with wine and vice versa... funny how that is...) than living to be 100 and not having any enjoyment in life.



I'll drink to that!
Obviously 1 bottle of wine a day is too much, but if no one keeps count, then who's counting? Alcohol intake is associated with a U shape curve for longevity. Too little means too little, too much means too much... but as long as you're truly living a happy life does it really matter?
Life is short + Wine is made to be drank = 1 bottle a day is fine.

I think that part of the magic of wine and how it is "healthy" is it's effect on your stress level for the day and how it can naturally lower that. THAT is good for your heart. If you are sitting around stressing about if you should have had that last glass after an already stresssfull day at work... THAT is not healthy.
quote:
Originally posted by Ogopogo DUDE:
quote:
Originally posted by woodchuck:
quote:
Originally posted by Ogopogo DUDE:
So 365 days X 50 = $18,250 per year. I have some employees that work for me that this figure is almost their YEARLY income before taxation.

Give them a raise. Then you won't feel so bad.

.... trust me, i do not feel bad nor sorry for any of my employees ... I am the one that spent ten years of university to get where i am today.


yeah and they spent years of their lives to help make you rich. Razz
I think that the better question is: "Why do you drink a bottle of wine each day?"

Do you truly enjoy and appreciate it if you drink it each day? If so, then go for it.

However, if the reason for drinking it daily is to intoxicate yourself, then you have reason for concern.

Any medicinal benefits quickly dissolve if the comsumption is excessive - IMO.

There are very few interests in my life that even come close to the passion that I have for wine, but I don't drink it every day. For me, it is one of Life's greatest treasures that is enjoyed to its fullest with good food, friends, and family. It would lose much of its allure if I consumed it daily.
Another very important variable is body mass. A healthy 220 lb man NEEDS to drink nearly twice as much wine as a 110 lb woman to get similar benefits. Apart from the alcohol, red wines add polyphenols which have many additional health benefits. So, I am 6'2" and 230, and drink two 6-8 oz glasses per night. I do away with a bottle every other day. The measure of too much is by blood alcohol level. Generally it's a good idea to let your doctor know how much you drink (he drinks more than me) and stay on top of you liver function.
Exactly. How can anyone say a bottle is too much or not without knowing who is consuming it? A male 6'5" and in decent physical condition is very different from a female 5'2" who is in average or mediocre condition. And whether the weight is muscle or fat also matters.

All of the studies I have seen show that men tend to get more benefit from alcohol, in moderation. My wife and I drink a bottle a day between us - she'll have a glass or two and I have the rest. I'm approximately twice her size and male, so that's the correct rationing, or so I tell her.

And it doesn't have to be a wine experience every night either. You just open it with dinner.

And finally, it also depends on what else you drink, if anything. I don't drink harder alcohol and almost never drink beer, which people drink while sitting in front of the TV. So if you're smaller, sedentary, and drink alcohol in various forms, a bottle of wine a day is a very different experience from that of someone else.
I'm a bit worried that folks are jumping on the "wine will prolong your life" bandwagon, and neglecting other healthy things. I've read the research, and while it is very encouraging for MODERATE wine drinkers, it should (as GregT and others point out) not be seen as a substitute for healthy lifestyle. Things like eating a healthy, fruit/vegetable rich diet, regular vigorous exercise, and not smoking will outweigh the benefits of a glass or three of wine each day.

Me, I do all those things above, and have cut my wine consumption down from approx five-six bottles a week, to three. I'm feeling better, and my checkbook is fatter.
My wife and I will sometimes drink a bottle over a day, especially during the weekends (though, I usually drink 5/8 to her 3/8). I do not find this excessive, though we do this only 3 days a week on average.

I think if you are drinking a bottle a day alone, you may be bordering on having a problem. But, hey, who am I to judge?

Funny you should mention the checkbook though. I just got done paying for an online order as my wife was checking the account balance on her laptop. She looked at me and said, "Hey, I thought we were done this month." I said man that was quick to clear and assured her I was transferring the money into the account to cover it. I could only imagine how things would be if we drank 2-3 times as much wine as we do, but then we may be so drunk we wouldn't realize it.
My wife and i share about three bottles a week at about a 20% (wife) - 80% (Me) ratio. Lately I've felt thats a little more than I'd like to be drinking and so I've committed to bringing that down to two bottles a week.

This also takes into consideration that I tend to have a few 1/4 glass samples through the week when on buying trips.
there is no definitive answer.

you'll get a range of responses from physicians from 'thats ok', 'thats probably ok, but you may want to cut back a little', 'thats too much you should cut back'.

as with all is this healthy/excessive, the bigger factor is the length of time the behavior is conducted. Even extreme consumption over the short term is unlikely to have long term effects (think weekends in college), but what seems like 'moderate' use over many years can be very detrimental.

you'll hear lots of stories about the contrary examples (so and so drinks a bottle a day and lived to be 95), but those are the exceptions, the dead aren't here to tell you it doesnt always work out for the best. (and at their funerals no one was shocked they died so early, "the guy drank like a fish, but bless his heart he was the funniest SOB at the 19th hole").
quote:
Originally posted by finz:
there is no definitive answer.

you'll get a range of responses from physicians from 'thats ok', 'thats probably ok, but you may want to cut back a little', 'thats too much you should cut back'.

as with all is this healthy/excessive, the bigger factor is the length of time the behavior is conducted. Even extreme consumption over the short term is unlikely to have long term effects (think weekends in college), but what seems like 'moderate' use over many years can be very detrimental.

you'll hear lots of stories about the contrary examples (so and so drinks a bottle a day and lived to be 95), but those are the exceptions, the dead aren't here to tell you it doesnt always work out for the best. (and at their funerals no one was shocked they died so early, "the guy drank like a fish, but bless his heart he was the funniest SOB at the 19th hole").


iof you like to pay a higher insurance premium the answer is no.
quote:
Originally posted by Omnistuff:
I drink a 750ml bottle of red wine rated at 8% alcohol per evening. Is this too much for good health?

I'd like a definitive answer if there is one. Thanks.


I think I'd get tired of that much Riesling.
quote:
Originally posted by BRR:
quote:
Originally posted by Omnistuff:
I drink a 750ml bottle of red wine rated at 8% alcohol per evening. Is this too much for good health?

I'd like a definitive answer if there is one. Thanks.


I think I'd get tired of that much Riesling.


Hah. Especially Red Riesling! Ack

PH
quote:
Originally posted by spo:
I told my doctor I drink a 1/2 bottle of wine 2-3 times a week at most. He told me it was too much at one time and he would rather I drink a glass or two everyday. I was surprised.


so 1.5 glasses/day * 7 days/week = 10.5 glasses a week (ok)
6 glasses/bottle * 1/2 bottle/time * 3 times/week = 9 glasses/week (less ok?)

and he thinks he was making a recomendation that would reduce your intake?
quote:
Originally posted by DoktaP:
I told my doctor I was having to much wine, women and song: so, he told me to give up singing! Big Grin


That reminds me of a great line in "Never Say Never Again":

M: Too many free radicals. That's your problem.

James Bond: "Free radicals," sir?

M: Yes. They're toxins that destroy the body and the brain, caused by eating too much red meat and white bread and too many dry martinis!

James Bond: Then I shall cut out the white bread, sir.
quote:
Originally posted by finz:
quote:
Originally posted by spo:
I told my doctor I drink a 1/2 bottle of wine 2-3 times a week at most. He told me it was too much at one time and he would rather I drink a glass or two everyday. I was surprised.


so 1.5 glasses/day * 7 days/week = 10.5 glasses a week (ok)
6 glasses/bottle * 1/2 bottle/time * 3 times/week = 9 glasses/week (less ok?)

and he thinks he was making a recomendation that would reduce your intake?


No, he seemed to think too much at one time with an overall lower consumption was worse than steady moderation but more wine overall.
quote:
Originally posted by davec:
quote:
Originally posted by finz:
6 glasses/bottle * 1/2 bottle/time * 3 times/week = 9 glasses/week


6 glasses/bottle? Who's pouring, Harlan at the Wine Experience Grand tasting? We don't have glasses that small.


He was refering to servings. A bottle of wine will have 6-8 servings based on amount of alcohol.

Puleeeze! The conversation gives the impression that the bottle of wine is consumed all at once, sending your liver into overdrive. Wine is to be savored, a delicious addition to a healthy and enjoying meal. It's metabolized over time with the other foods.

There are other factors involved that may lead to the diseases blamed on the consumption of alcohol in general, but that is not why we're on a Wine Spectator forum.

"Puleeeze! The conversation gives the impression that the bottle of wine is consumed all at once, sending your liver into overdrive. Wine is to be savored, a delicious addition to a healthy and enjoying meal. It's metabolized over time with the other foods."

Did you happen to notice that the last post in this thread was seven years ago? And it was petering out for a few years before that. All the people who drank so much wine are all passed out somewhere and the room is empty!

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