I'm going the what have you've been drinking threads and notice less and less bdx being mentioned.

Are folks saving those for retirement?

Do you guys just like other regions of wine nowadays?

Original Post

Now that you mention it, I do seem to be drinking less bordeaux during lockdown, possibly because I like to share bordeaux with fellow oenophiles.  I was planning to bring a 1995 Leoville Las Cases to an Easter dinner gathering, but since it was canceled, the bottle still stands.

It hasn’t been a conscious decision, but when I look at CT I see that when I want a Bordeaux blend or a Cab Sauv, more often than not I’ve been buying a handful of Cali producers. I’ve got 50 bottles of 2016-2018 Cali Cabs and Bordeaux blends in my inventory and zero from Bordeaux.

The last vintage of Bordeaux I bought was 2015, and even then it was only 4 producers and a total of 24 bottles.

 The Cali producers I buy are relatively reliable for the quality, consistency, balance and restraint of their wines, so I suppose I just don’t feel the need to buy Bordeaux. 

Also, at 63 I’ve pretty much stopped buying recent vintages of any wine that won’t be approachable for 15+ years. The only 2018 Cab/Bordeaux I bought was my 4 bottle allocation of Ridge Monte Bello (and I’ve since dropped off their list). I figured it was a no-brainer given its resale value.

@sunnylea57 posted:

It hasn’t been a conscious decision, but when I look at CT I see that when I want a Bordeaux blend or a Cab Sauv, more often than not I’ve been buying a handful of Cali producers. I’ve got 50 bottles of 2016-2018 Cali Cabs and Bordeaux blends in my inventory and zero from Bordeaux.

The last vintage of Bordeaux I bought was 2015, and even then it was only 4 producers and a total of 24 bottles.

 The Cali producers I buy are relatively reliable for the quality, consistency, balance and restraint of their wines, so I suppose I just don’t feel the need to buy Bordeaux. 

Also, at 63 I’ve pretty much stopped buying recent vintages of any wine that won’t be approachable for 15+ years. The only 2018 Cab/Bordeaux I bought was my 4 bottle allocation of Ridge Monte Bello (and I’ve since dropped off their list). I figured it was a no-brainer given its resale value.

I'm in the same situation (age-wise, etc.) as you, sunnylea.  I'm not buying newer vintages of Bdx or Port.  I tend to look for aged bottles (and some are really favorably priced).  I bought a handful of 2016, but will not be buying any more. 

The other thing is I just don't post TNs like I used to.  Even on CT, I generally make a private note.  I'll try to contribute more.

It's a combination of price and availability for me.  Getting into wine a little over 10 years ago, I feel like prices had already jumped really high for the good stuff and I didn't know enough about the region to find any great values.  Luckily the local winos have pretty nice Bordeaux holdings and I've got the opportunity to taste quite a few really nice ones, but I can probably count my Bordeaux holdings to no more than a case or a case and a half.  The other issue is availability.  Not so much Bordeaux, but just Napa cab availability.  I know more about that specific region, I have personal connections with a few of the producers, and at particular price points, I'm just more comfortable buying Napa than Bordeaux.  

@haggis posted:

I'm in the same situation (age-wise, etc.) as you, sunnylea.  I'm not buying newer vintages of Bdx or Port.  I tend to look for aged bottles (and some are really favorably priced).  I bought a handful of 2016, but will not be buying any more. 

The other thing is I just don't post TNs like I used to.  Even on CT, I generally make a private note.  I'll try to contribute more.

Likewise: most of my wine buying these days is back filling old vintages via auction. Not so much Bordeaux, though. 

I don't TNs here at all, and I also haven't posted recently in the "What Am I Drinking" thread. Last fall I started a separate IG account where I only posts wines I've been drinking. @arntfieldwines 

It’s not dead. It’s resting. Lovely plumage. 

Pining for the fiords. 

I’ll give a more intelligent response later. 

@flwino posted:

Agree on the over priced.  Have preferred other wines instead.. Burg's in particular

flwino - do you believe Burgundy provides better value than Bordeaux?

I would have said that ten years ago but since the rest of the world 'discovered' Burgundy the price escalation has been insane. 

@vint posted:

flwino - do you believe Burgundy provides better value than Bordeaux?

I would have said that ten years ago but since the rest of the world 'discovered' Burgundy the price escalation has been insane. 

Luckily for me, I’m ambivalent about Bordeaux and dismissive of Burgundy.

I own about a hundred bottles of bordeaux but haven't bought a bottle since the 2010 vintage. 

I find bordeaux very good, often very intellectual but rarely "fun". I like to enjoy enjoying wine and too often bordeaux is wonderful but less enjoyable. Probably just a personal phase that I'll come out of (and then will have a lot of great wine to enjoy that is nearing maturity). 

@billhike posted:

Luckily for me, I’m ambivalent about Bordeaux and dismissive of Burgundy.

As am I with tooty-frooty boiled-lollipop new world pinots.  So there.  

I think the makeup of this board is people who have been interested in wine for a very long time. Our horizons are largely expanded; and our collective senses of value are much improved from initial foray into wine. Bordeaux doesn’t *generally* offer the value found in other regions; and we’re all pretty much so knowledgeable that there seem a myriad of possibilities out there. There is no reason to assume, price regardless, that Bordeaux would be any more popular than Northern Rhone on a board like this. 

But I also think (high end) Bordeaux lends itself to a type of drinking we’re just not doing these days: in-person wine tastings with simply prepared beef. It isn’t really a warming, food-for-the-soul type experience the way, for example, Rhones can be. Plus, a lot of us are cooking for more than one night, these days; making stews, lasagna, etc. and those sorts of dishes don’t generally lend themselves to Bordeaux, imo. I think if people were getting together offline to consume prime rib, you’d see more Bordeaux being opened. But, again, while there are some upper echelon relative values to be had in Bordeaux, those will still be competing with upper echelon wines from elsewhere on a board like this.  

All of that said...

 I’ve been missing Bdx blends and I’m going to do a little load-up on Poujeaux. For years it has been my favorite qpr Bordeaux blend, irrespective of origin.

@winetarelli posted:

 

 I’ve been missing Bdx blends and I’m going to do a little load-up on Poujeaux. For years it has been my favorite qpr Bordeaux blend, irrespective of origin.

Hey Winetarelli, I used to love Poujeaux and I don't think I have had any since it changed ownership. Any particular vintages you are enjoying or that are good for drinking now?

@winetarelli posted:

It’s not dead. It’s resting. Lovely plumage. 

Pining for the fiords. 

I’ll give a more intelligent response later. 

Monty Python marathon on TV in your area?!

@spo posted:

Hey Winetarelli, I used to love Poujeaux and I don't think I have had any since it changed ownership. Any particular vintages you are enjoying or that are good for drinking now?

2010 is awesome right now. But, for the price, I think 2012 and 2014 are also quite good. The vintage I’m reloading on is 2016. I’ve read good things, but I’ve not had it yet. 

@haggis posted:

Monty Python marathon on TV in your area?!

No. But I simply cannot hear of something being dead without thinking of it. Plus, you know, YouTube. 

-Biggus Dickus

I own about a hundred bottles of bordeaux but haven't bought a bottle since the 2010 vintage. 

I find bordeaux very good, often very intellectual but rarely "fun". I like to enjoy enjoying wine and too often bordeaux is wonderful but less enjoyable. Probably just a personal phase that I'll come out of (and then will have a lot of great wine to enjoy that is nearing maturity). 

That's really well put Rob. I would have just said Boredeaux is boring and has been dead to me for at least 10 years, but your response is better.

We had a french onion tart last night and Stef said she wanted a Bordeaux coincidentally so we had a 2015 Ch. L'Etoile de Clotte - St. Emilion Grand Cru  - According to CT it is the 9th bottle of Bordeaux we have had this year (at least from our cellar)

@steve8 posted:

That's really well put Rob. I would have just said Boredeaux is boring and has been dead to me for at least 10 years, but your response is better.

So when will you be selling or trading your 2000 Lafleur.

Still plenty of bordeaux for me, but I'm apparently a card carrying member of the anti-flavour wine elite...backfilling with older bottles of bordeaux and cali cab where possible.  Once I completely lose my taste buds I'll move into the sloppy parkerized mess regions that you guys seem to love LOLOL

@machine posted:

Still plenty of bordeaux for me, but I'm apparently a card carrying member of the anti-flavour wine elite...backfilling with older bottles of bordeaux and cali cab where possible.  Once I completely lose my taste buds I'll move into the sloppy parkerized mess regions that you guys seem to love LOLOL

Lol. I'm with you. Plus, there are only over 9000 different wines and 6000 different producers in Bordeaux. Totally dead region IMHO.

Last edited by mimik

I find bordeaux very good, often very intellectual but rarely "fun". I like to enjoy enjoying wine and too often bordeaux is wonderful but less enjoyable. 

Agree wholeheartedly.

@machine posted:

Still plenty of bordeaux for me, but I'm apparently a card carrying member of the anti-flavour wine elite...backfilling with older bottles of bordeaux and cali cab where possible.  Once I completely lose my taste buds I'll move into the sloppy parkerized mess regions that you guys seem to love LOLOL

I feel Parkerization has been evident in Bordeaux for a long time now...as can be seen in alcohol levels alone. The aged examples (pre 2000/2005?) can still be great.

 

I've stopped buying Bordeaux because of pricing.  You can buy properly aged examples for less than the current releases in many cases.  Also, because it doesn't taste like Bordeaux anymore.  Too sweet, too much oak and too much alcohol.  Parker strikes again. 

There is too much other great, interesting wine out there, that is food friendly and doesn't break the bank to focus on Bordeaux much these days.  That being said, when it's going to be a memorable meal, I usually reach for a nice aged bottle of Bordeaux to pair with it.  

@abryce posted:

Agree wholeheartedly.

I feel Parkerization has been evident in Bordeaux for a long time now...as can be seen in alcohol levels alone. The aged examples (pre 2000/2005?) can still be great.

 

Yeah.  You can find Parkerization anywhere and everywhere.  But I think of Bordeaux (and Cali Cab) as ground zero.  

@csm posted:

That being said, when it's going to be a memorable meal, I usually reach for a nice aged bottle of Bordeaux to pair with it.  

And there it is in a nut shell.  

A serious, if not fun wine, but when the time/occasion calls, up there with the best.

I recently won a few bdx on auction, a 2005, '09 and a '10, more value range stuff, and try to keep at least a few bottles around.  I'll probably never buy current releases as I'm not a buy/hold purchaser and don't have patience, but 'deals' are still to be had on the 2ndary market and I'll look forward to drinking nice bottles with friends.

All that and I love, love, love a decent Sauternes.

I agree with a lot of the sentiments, I seem to be saving my Bdx for those sharing occasions but on regular nights I just drink cali  reds.  

Some Bordeaux is certainly Parkerized, some chateau more notably than others, but I haven't found that any of my 2005's would qualify, nor the select few i got from 06/0809/10/14, but I haven't bought very much of it since 2005 (and sold some 2005's that were sketchy like angelus and pavie).  The 2014 Figeac I just popped certainly isn't, perhaps surprisingly!  I think Cali and perhaps CDP have been far more substantially amended as a result of Parker liking big goopy glop, but love to get older cali whenever it presents itself.

@g-man posted:

I agree with a lot of the sentiments, I seem to be saving my Bdx for those sharing occasions but on regular nights I just drink cali  reds.  

I'll show you my Bordeaux,  if you show me yours. 

@machine posted:

Still plenty of bordeaux for me, but I'm apparently a card carrying member of the anti-flavour wine elite.

Could not have said it better myself!  

Similar situation to Sunnylea here but still buying a few qpr bottles that don't require a lot of ageing.  Am getting more selective with those too.  Maybe the occasional back fill item if the price is right but those are becoming less frequent as well.  Beyond the age and ageing factor, I've always preferred elegance & complexity over power and find this preference to increase with time.  I still enjoy the occasional Bordeaux but open the less often than in the past.  I'm more inclined to go for Barolo, Barbaresco, Barbera, Burgundy (Red & White) or N Rhone.  

 

If you think Bordeaux is dead, you're drinking the wrong Bordeaux. For reliability, quality, and aging potential, it's unmatched anywhere in the world.

 

Bordeaux are in my opinion the best wines you can have . But you dont open up a bottle of barton ,las cases or even Margaux every day . so i guess people are drinking more burgundy or other stuff . For bordeaux you need a good company time and good mood. They are my absolute favorite but i didnt drunk any in last 2-3 weeks. AS soon as we can make tasting there will be some Grand cru classes absolutly. Stay safe

@board-o posted:

If you think Bordeaux is dead, you're drinking the wrong Bordeaux. For reliability, quality, and aging potential, it's unmatched anywhere in the world.

 

Not counting vintage port, of course.... 

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