quote:
Originally posted by WEc:
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
Nope. At least not according to the USDA.


ad verecundiam x 1 Wink

quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
Twice nope'd, WEc!


ad verecundiam x 2 Wink


I'm confused, WEc. Are you asserting that the USDA and their Canadian counterpart aren't authorities in the classification of meat?

PH
quote:
Originally posted by indybob:
I can overpower most fish,
Wow, so a veggie diet makes you that strong? Big Grin How about Great Whites?
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
quote:
Originally posted by WEc:
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
Nope. At least not according to the USDA.


ad verecundiam x 1 Wink

quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
Twice nope'd, WEc!


ad verecundiam x 2 Wink


I'm confused, WEc. Are you asserting that the USDA and their Canadian counterpart aren't authorities in the classification of meat?

PH


Sure, the USDA and the Canadian board are authorities in the classification of meat. But it is not clear to me that the term red meat when tossed around in conversation is actually associated to the classification. For all I know, red meat are two english words and hence I could equally appeal to the OED ( here) which clearly states:
red meat, dark-coloured meat, as beef or lamb (as opposed to chicken, veal, etc.)

Beyond this, there are two variations of ad verecundiam fallacies but they take on the same logical forms where subject X is an expert in the field Y.
X is an expert in Y.
X says A.
Therefore A.

The difference is whether the statement A, itself, is relevant to the field of Y. Of course, in the absence of this relevance, this fallacy is immediate (i.e., drink Pepsi cause Michael Jackson endorses it) but even in the event that A is relevant to Y, this is still a fallacy (The chief economist at the Bank of ABC said that interest rates will fall and so therefore interest rates will fall!)
quote:
Originally posted by VT2IT:
If the veal was allowed to grow up, would not the resulting meat be red? Wink


If you allowed the egg to hatch wouldn't the resulting meat be poultry? Wink
OK, so I try to limit my red meat to 2 meals per week. That includes meat in sauces, chinese food, RB sandwiches etc. I feel that I'm able to keep this average, sometimes things can't be helped and I'll have more, but I'm good at cutting back the next week to keep that average.

My question is what other foods do you eat with big red wines? It seems like the amount of red wine so far out numbers the foods that you can eat with it. Pinot is a bit more versatile obviously. Other than beef and lamb dishes and red sauced italian foods, what other foods do you drink cabs, merlots and their counterparts with?
quote:
Originally posted by WEc:
The difference is whether the statement A, itself, is relevant to the field of Y. Of course, in the absence of this relevance, this fallacy is immediate (i.e., drink Pepsi cause Michael Jackson endorses it) but even in the event that A is relevant to Y, this is still a fallacy (The chief economist at the Bank of ABC said that interest rates will fall and so therefore interest rates will fall!)


Then it would also hold that it would be a fallacy when WEc says, "Pork and veal are not red meats." Wink If I'm going to look to an authority in the classification of meat, it ain't going to be either WEc or the OED!! Razz

PH
quote:
Originally posted by Aja1:
OK, so I try to limit my red meat to 2 meals per week. That includes meat in sauces, chinese food, RB sandwiches etc. I feel that I'm able to keep this average, sometimes things can't be helped and I'll have more, but I'm good at cutting back the next week to keep that average.

My question is what other foods do you eat with big red wines? It seems like the amount of red wine so far out numbers the foods that you can eat with it. Pinot is a bit more versatile obviously. Other than beef and lamb dishes and red sauced italian foods, what other foods do you drink cabs, merlots and their counterparts with?


Veal.
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
quote:
Originally posted by WEc:
The difference is whether the statement A, itself, is relevant to the field of Y. Of course, in the absence of this relevance, this fallacy is immediate (i.e., drink Pepsi cause Michael Jackson endorses it) but even in the event that A is relevant to Y, this is still a fallacy (The chief economist at the Bank of ABC said that interest rates will fall and so therefore interest rates will fall!)


Then it would also hold that it would be a fallacy when WEc says, "Pork and veal are not red meats." Wink If I'm going to look to an authority in the classification of meat, it ain't going to be either WEc or the OED!! Razz

PH


This, is perhaps one of your more commendable posts as opposed to the frat boy behavior you sometimes exhibit. Wink

FWIW, siding with the USDA interpretation of red meat is almost akin to answering the doctor's questionnaire truthfully. I am known to be a victim of irrational rationalizations.
quote:
Originally posted by Aja1:
Veal.



That's red meat in my book...sadly.[/QUOTE]

Aja1,

I do believe that there is no ad verecundiam in your statement. Your assertion is valid, for yourself ("in my book"). As regard to who is the ultimate authority on veal (red meat or not red meat), that’s seems to be up for grabs. Anyhow, I do not think that there is much of a choice of food to pair with Cab or any bold red, but red meat.
I eat cow about twice a month.

I eat chicken probably 3 times a week.

The other meals are either turkey, fish, or vegetarian type dishes.

Don't eat pork. Exotics on occasion (ostrich, buffalo etc) maybe twice a year.

I'm currently reading the Omnivore's Dilemma. As a result, I'm seriously thinking of switching to grass fed cow instead of corn fed cows.
quote:
Originally posted by tanglenet:

I'm currently reading the Omnivore's Dilemma.


I'm reading that, too. I think it's time to boycott corn. And ethanol? There's some pork for you. It takes more gasoline to produce than you get usable fuel in return. By the way, just try to find bread or bagels without high-fructose corn syrup. It's nice to know that our representatives in congress have found a way to subsidize the addition of gratuitous calories in our diet.
quote:
Originally posted by Spenser:
quote:
Originally posted by tanglenet:

I'm currently reading the Omnivore's Dilemma.


I'm reading that, too. I think it's time to boycott corn. And ethanol? There's some pork for you. It takes more gasoline to produce than you get usable fuel in return. By the way, just try to find bread or bagels without high-fructose corn syrup. It's nice to know that our representatives in congress have found a way to subsidize the addition of gratuitous calories in our diet.


I'm still on the section on corn. Pretty enlightening and frightening reading.

At Whole Foods out here, you can buy bread without the corn additives.
quote:
Originally posted by Spenser:
By the way, just try to find bread or bagels without high-fructose corn syrup.

Finding bread with HFCS isn't too bad but I've found that even if you've read the label of one brand of bread and found that it did not have HFCS in it, the next time you buy it it may. It's kind of frustrating to me that I need to read the label every time. Bagels aren't a problem for me - I buy them from a local Jewish bagel shop that makes them on premises. It seems that buns are impossible to find without HFCS.
Since it seems few of you are eating red meat, I started wondering what it is you do eat. So, I tallied up the main protein dishes(when I could tell) in the latest 'What's for dinner?' thread. My findings:

Beef 22
Seafood 17
Lamb 7
Fowl 7
Pork 6
Veal 2
Rabbit 1
Spam 1 (thanks Bella)

It seem there is a little more beef eatin' going on than I would have anticipated from reading this thread.

Certainly not an exhaustive study, but food for thought. Wink
cdr must have had a near death experience. He started a thread that has gone 4 pages without mocking anybody at all. No arguments either. Confused
quote:
Originally posted by spo:
cdr must have had a near death experience. He started a thread that has gone 4 pages without mocking anybody at all. No arguments either. Confused


Smile Big Grin Maybe there can at last be peace between the various 'vores.
I think our friends the cow and the pig are getting a bad rap on this thread. A filet of beef and a pork loin are actually pretty lean cuts of meat depending on how they are prepared. In addition, I have a buddy that is a line cook at a seafood restaurant and he said people would be shocked at how much butter restaurants use when cooking fish. I was thinking of this statement this weekend when I was at a local steakhouse and a coworker of mine claimed he was going to get the halibut because it was “healthy”. When the dish came out I could see the butter oozing out of the fish. Now I’m not saying it was worse than my filet that was swimming in butter, but fish in a restaurant is not as “healthy” as most people think.
quote:
I was thinking of this statement this weekend when I was at a local steakhouse and a coworker of mine claimed he was going to get the halibut because it was “healthy”. When the dish came out I could see the butter oozing out of the fish. Now I’m not saying it was worse than my filet that was swimming in butter, but fish in a restaurant is not as “healthy” as most people think.


Totally. Seafood is usually soaked in butter most of the time. Especially in those iron deep dish plates. People are like "Oh it's so buttery and creamy" "I never had flounder so good" Clueless Roll Eyes

Not to mention the people who think they are doing themsleves a favor at mcdonalds avoiding an evil quarter pounder but order a fried fish sandwich with tarter sauce. That's worse!

Yes - when it comes to red meat, the cut and quality definitely matters. I guess that applies to all food. Quality is the key.
Smile
I love red meat and the rarier the better. I eat it as often as I can my cholesteral is lower than a deadman's and I go for the lowest fat content usually bison or filet mignon. Say what you will but I believe that it is all in the mind or in your genes. I'm lucky and I can eat whatever I want "in moderation" and still keep my levels in check. I think a lot of people listen to the "hype" and let their mind rule over their better instincts. EVERYTHING IS FINE IN MODERATION.
quote:
Originally posted by mpls wine guy:
It hit 20 degrees today in Mpls! Razz
Wow, I don’t think I have ever been in weather that cold. I’m not kidding. I think it was 80 this weekend in SoCal. I’m not rubbing it in I promise Smile
Never, I'm that kind of vegetarian. It doesn't stop me from posting wine and food pairings and recipes on the blog, though. My boyfriend is a wine lover and he hunts.
Kathleen Lisson
Not too often, but I do love it when I choose to indulge. I have meat once a day max and a steak once a week max.

Humans have only had unrestricted access to red meat for 100 years or so. I don't think our bodies are designed to handle it twice a day.
Once the weather gets friendly here my neighbor who grills out almost every night is going to let me use his grill and smoker so I will indulge more often but I'll limit the portions.

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