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I think that there has been less oakiness in Cal. chard, at least that's what I read. I rarely drink this type of wine.    Old world wines haven't changed much, so far as I can tell (you mention Italians, for example).  A beautiful white Burgundy is still a beautiful white Burgundy.

What has changed the most in the world of wine is the breadth of choices and the increase in consumption.  Winemaking techniques have modernized and improved.  New worthy wine regions are emerging.  Sparking wine from England?  Quality wine from Greece?  Unheard of when I started drinking wine in earnest around 45 years ago.

Last edited by irwin

I didn’t start drinking and enjoying CdP until 2008 or so, and by that time most new releases were supposedly much riper and more fruit-forward than before. Several of the lovely gents in the TWC are in the camp that seemingly turned their backs on the region. Maybe one of them will chime in. I’m still waiting for VinT to ship me all of his Beaucastel. It is my birthday month after all.

@irwin posted:

I think another thing which has changed is that in the old days you rarely saw a wine with over 13.5% alcohol.  Now, 14, 14.5 and even 15% are not that uncommon.  (Earthquake Petit Syrah 2016 has 15.5% alcohol!)

@mneeley490 posted:

Bingo.

This... BUT, things aren't static.

10, 15 years ago high octane CA Pinot was all the rage.  Martinellis were well over 15%.  I forget what Kosta Brownes were, but up there.  And, as importantly, everything was just tremendous fruit.  Everything at a "high end" CA Pinot tasting was an absolute fruit bomb.  I'm sure those wineries are still doing well.  But, wineries like Anthill, Tyler, Rhys and Cobb are now also thriving and supporting a more balanced and elegant version of CA Pinot that wasn't really even a part of the discussion 12 years ago.

@billhike posted:

I didn’t start drinking and enjoying CdP until 2008 or so, and by that time most new releases were supposedly much riper and more fruit-forward than before. Several of the lovely gents in the TWC are in the camp that seemingly turned their backs on the region. Maybe one of them will chime in. I’m still waiting for VinT to ship me all of his Beaucastel. It is my birthday month after all.

Uh oh...I liquidated my Beau collection about four years ago.

I haven't purchased a single CdP since.

@winetarelli posted:

This... BUT, things aren't static.

10, 15 years ago high octane CA Pinot was all the rage.  Martinellis were well over 15%.  I forget what Kosta Brownes were, but up there.  And, as importantly, everything was just tremendous fruit.  Everything at a "high end" CA Pinot tasting was an absolute fruit bomb.  I'm sure those wineries are still doing well.  But, wineries like Anthill, Tyler, Rhys and Cobb are now also thriving and supporting a more balanced and elegant version of CA Pinot that wasn't really even a part of the discussion 12 years ago.

Doesnt rhys sit in the mid 14s?

Littorai always was part of the discussion, they're in the 13% range

@g-man posted:

Doesnt rhys sit in the mid 14s?

Littorai always was part of the discussion, they're in the 13% range

Can’t say about all the Rhys, but most (maybe all) of the ones I’ve had have definitely been below 14. Some below 13. (I was also using abv to indicate a more old-world sensibility, as opposed to the more bombastic character of certain other producers’ wines.) If it matters, I go after the various Santa Cruz Mountains bottlings.

You’re right about Littorai; for whatever reason, they just never showed up at the Pinot tastings I went to in the mid-late ‘00s.

Last edited by winetarelli

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