Harvey Steiman's "Dab of Viognier" article...

I do like it, at least the few I've tried. Laughing Magpie, for instance, is very nicely done.

I've tried the D'Arenberg Laughing Magpie and found it interesting.
It would be nice that Australia would do that to all of their Shiraz. I think that it would give it their OWN style. Just like Bordeaux with the mixing of Cab Sauvignon and Franc with Merlot.

Luc,

They picked up this idea from the northern Rhone. I think their style is fairly unique as is.

Big M,
that I know, what I meant to say is that, Shiraz is diferent than Syrah and adding Viognier would make THEIR wine unique and diferent than Rhône's.
Cheers!!

quote:

Originally posted by haggis:
I do like it, at least the few I've tried. Laughing Magpie, for instance, is very nicely done.

Agreed. I love the stuff and it is still fairly inexpensive.

I have to admit, the laughing magpie is a great wine.

Maybe adding viognier is the way to go for Ozzie shiraz.

quote:

Originally posted by carriedca:


Maybe adding viognier is the way to go for Ozzie shiraz.

How about skipping the Shiraz altogether and giving us some damn good complex Viognier?
Don't get me wrong, there are lots of excellent Aussie Shiraz, but after awhile they all taste like, well... Aussie Shiraz (with few $$$$ exceptions). How much of Shiraz can one person have?

2nd, 3rd, 4th or whatever it is on the laughing magpie. I actually like it better than the dead arm. Unfortunatly my local store is all sold out. I would love to find some in 375's I heard they exist, does anybody know where they can be found?

quote:

D'Arenberg Laughing Magpie

Has anyone had the 2003, is it good as well?

Some of the SV blends can be terrific but the problem with many of them is that they turn wine into an apricot dominant wine that is revoltingly sweet.

Whilst may people do like the Laughing Magpie, I am not one of them. If you want to see what a great SV belnd is like, try Torbreck Run Rig or thier The Decendants, Clonakilla, Yalumba Hand Picked SV, Heathcoate Winery Mail Coach, Standish Wine Co The Relic, Yarra Yarra Shiraz. These wines are at varying price points and are examples of wines that have (reasonably) subtle Viognier added.

quote:

Originally posted by rrfbfan:
2nd, 3rd, 4th or whatever it is on the laughing magpie. I actually like it better than the dead arm. Unfortunatly my local store is all sold out. I would love to find some in 375's I heard they exist, does anybody know where they can be found?

They are often out of stock but try here.

quote:

Originally posted by TORB:
Some of the SV blends can be terrific but the problem with many of them is that they turn wine into an apricot dominant wine that is revoltingly sweet.

Whilst may people do like the Laughing Magpie, I am not one of them. If you want to see what a great SV belnd is like, try Torbreck Run Rig or thier The Decendants, Clonakilla, Yalumba Hand Picked SV, Heathcoate Winery Mail Coach, Standish Wine Co The Relic, Yarra Yarra Shiraz. These wines are at varying price points and are examples of wines that have (reasonably) subtle Viognier added.

Agreed that RunRig and Descendents are great wines, but I'd much rather pay USD35 for Laughing Magpie than USD85-140 for the Torbreck.

quote:

Originally posted by spo1977:

quote:

D'Arenberg Laughing Magpie

Has anyone had the 2003, is it good as well?

03 is good, but not as good (IMO) as the 02.

I have noticed a large difference on the price of the 2002 to the 2003.

'03s not as good as '02.

Grun,

I agree... this concept seems to take away dullness from Aussie Shiraz. I cannot even remember the last time I purchased a bottle of Aussie shiraz.

LJ

quote:

Originally posted by haggis:
Agreed that RunRig and Descendents are great wines, but I'd much rather pay USD35 for Laughing Magpie than USD85-140 for the Torbreck.

Prices in Oz are
Laughing Magpie $23 (case buy)
The Decendants $125
Run Rig $225

So we are not talking about a multiplier of 2.5 between the LM and the Torbreck; we have a 5 times multiplier for the Decendants and its 10 times for the Run Rig.

quote:

Originally posted by TORB:
Some of the SV blends can be terrific but the problem with many of them is that they turn wine into an apricot dominant wine that is revoltingly sweet.

Whilst may people do like the Laughing Magpie, I am not one of them. If you want to see what a great SV belnd is like, try Torbreck Run Rig or thier The Decendants, Clonakilla, Yalumba Hand Picked SV, Heathcoate Winery Mail Coach, Standish Wine Co The Relic, Yarra Yarra Shiraz. These wines are at varying price points and are examples of wines that have (reasonably) subtle Viognier added.

I agree with everything TORB says. My only additional comment is that the S/V blend is very new to Oz and I some of the manufacturers are on the learning curve, and I expect S/V blends to be better across the board in 3 or 4 years time.

quote:

Originally posted by TORB:

quote:

Originally posted by haggis:
Agreed that RunRig and Descendents are great wines, but I'd much rather pay USD35 for Laughing Magpie than USD85-140 for the Torbreck.

Prices in Oz are
Laughing Magpie $23 (case buy)
The Decendants $125
Run Rig $225

So we are not talking about a multiplier of 2.5 between the LM and the Torbreck; we have a 5 times multiplier for the Decendants and its 10 times for the Run Rig.

That's my point: I can drink that cheery bird more often that the Torbreck (as much as I'd like to be able to regularly drink a Scottish-named wine!).

I haven't read the article but some clarification. The practice of combining Viognier and Syrah started in the Northern Rhone, Cote Rotie in particular. Notice I said 'combining'. In Cote Rotie Viognier was traditionally co-planted with Syrah and picked at the same time. The grapes where then ferminted together.

The legal limit in Cote Rotie is 20% Viognier. For many years this was simply called a 'dodge' by the wine press. A way for the local growers to get away with adding the cheaper Viognier and not having to replant. Much of this type of stuff goes on in Italy where all kinds of inferior grapes are allowed to be mixed in the fields in a political gift to growers.

In the 1980's Guigal came out with the La, La's and La Turque in particular had Viognier. The conventional wisdom began to change and winemakers explored what Viognier was brining to the blend. The term "co-factors" began to be used and Viognier was credited with locking in deeper color in Syrah and in giving a lift to floral flavors. Bringing out violet in particular from the Syrah as well as adding some peach and apricot notes from the Viognier.

Many insist the benefits of Viognier are only possible with co-fermintation. They say that simply adding the Viognier does not produce the floral lift and deeper color, only adds the apricot and peach of Viognier. Torb, Pauly or Aussie probably know more than I but I believe most Aussie Shiraz is blended not co-ferminted.

Personally I really like the wines that are co-ferminted. I had a 2002 Lagier Meredith last night for instance, that had deep color and a nice violet note to go with meaty blackberry, iron, spicy pepper and provencial herbs. IT's more subtle to me than those that have been blended.

TL,

The vast majority of better quality SV blends coming out of Oz are co-fermented. Normally the ones where Viognier is added after fermentation are simply dreadful; the Viognier content is about as subtle as a train smash, producing wine that is the anthesis of harmonious.

The one exception is Run Rig where the Viognier is added just prior to bottling to “freshen up” the wine. As good as the wine is, and it is bloody good, I did not like the 2001 as the Viognier was too apparent; however I loved the 2002 as it was a lot more subtle.

As an aside, were the grapes are co-planted, picking must be a nightmare as the two varieties would surely ripen a fair way apart.