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quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
I understand that point Rothko but if all three dragons just fly around roasting Lannisters and Greyjoys there is no drama in that battle. Martin always ups the drama and tests for his characters. I think one of the dragons die. I could be wrong but I'm sticking to it.


The real point is that the 3-headed dragon is needed because dragons will be needed to fight the Others (white Walkers/Night's King in the show) and will be flown by 3 characters - it is up for debate who those 3 are - largely believed to be Dany, Jon and the third is open to debate - many believe Tyrion - some believe Bran either directly or through Three-Eyed Raven powers - It is quite possible a dragon will die in the show (and possibly the books) but that runs up against the 3 Heads of the Dragon theories.

Time will tell
quote:
Originally posted by Jorgerunfast:
JC, but why a "3-headed dragon"?

I understand they'll need dragons, and will obviously start off with 3 of them, but just because one dies in battle doesn't mean there weren't three to begin with.... Confused



Lots of options - google it. For history read The World of Ice and Fire.

Historically - Aegon the Conqueror and his 2 sisters had 3 dragons with which they conquered Westeros. When Dany is in the House of the Undying - there are multiple references to the dragon having 3 heads.

Combining these and there are many other hints - came the widely held theory that the 3 dragons will have 3 riders . . .

Whether it will happen or not remains to be seen.
Where I'm losing you guys is that having one dragon killed doesn't ruin the 3-dragon theory.

3 Dragons fly into Westeros, kicking ass, burning up some delicious gyro meat, and destroying the Lannister and Greyjoy army. In the process, one dies, but the Lannister's and Greyjoy's are already dead / dying - so the 3 dragons prophecy still comes true... just that one dies in the end.

Anyway, yeah, we'll wait and see.

Good stuff!
quote:
Originally posted by Jorgerunfast:
Where I'm losing you guys is that having one dragon killed doesn't ruin the 3-dragon theory.

3 Dragons fly into Westeros, kicking ass, burning up some delicious gyro meat, and destroying the Lannister and Greyjoy army. In the process, one dies, but the Lannister's and Greyjoy's are already dead / dying - so the 3 dragons prophecy still comes true... just that one dies in the end.

Anyway, yeah, we'll wait and see.

Good stuff!


It is not a 3 dragon theory - it is that there are 3 people flying the 3 dragons. Dragon power does not mean the dragons fly around doing what they want. Dragons need riders. There are 3 meaning 3 people are needed. We are not there yet. If one is killed, that eliminates this theory/prophecy - which may well happen.

Lannister armies are not central to the real plot - this is a sideshow. Ice and Fire- White Walkers - the Others - that is where the big fight will be and what dragon fire might be useful for. Hell in the books, the Lannisters are barely even hanging on my a threat - Cersei is much much stupider, more incompetent and much much crazier - there is a whole other force (not existing in the show) that will likely have control of Kings Landing by the time the story is at this point
I don't think that Martin ever intended to have quite so many twists and turns as people expect in the TV show (or on the internet). It's like viewers will be upset if there aren't some more major surprises or sudden deaths, or beloved characters dying.

I think his original twist ending was the R+L=J reveal. I can remember reading the books for the first time, thinking it was a great story about Robb Stark getting revenge for Ned's death, and then being blown away by the Red Wedding and coming to realize that the story wasn't about Robb Stark at all, but about Jon Snow and the Others.
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
I don't think that Martin ever intended to have quite so many twists and turns as people expect in the TV show (or on the internet). It's like viewers will be upset if there aren't some more major surprises or sudden deaths, or beloved characters dying.

I think his original twist ending was the R+L=J reveal. I can remember reading the books for the first time, thinking it was a great story about Robb Stark getting revenge for Ned's death, and then being blown away by the Red Wedding and coming to realize that the story wasn't about Robb Stark at all, but about Jon Snow and the Others.


If you read the books more than once and the World of Ice and Fire - I think you would be surprised at how many twists and history were planned - The Prologue of the first book starts with the Others - which was a major sign that they were of critical importance. While I can't say I had any idea where the story was going either, I knew Jon was critically important right away
quote:
Originally posted by mjraica:
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
Very good season so far. Last night's battle was well done.

Was I the only one that thought that Dany was moving in on Jon Snow to kiss him? Part of me was hoping yes, and part of me was saying "no."


I thought so too. I'm feeling some sexual tension building there...

They appeared to be holding hands as they exited the cave. All in all, a pleasant first date for both of them.

How many times did Bron escape death? Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by gigabit:
quote:
Originally posted by mjraica:
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
Very good season so far. Last night's battle was well done.

Was I the only one that thought that Dany was moving in on Jon Snow to kiss him? Part of me was hoping yes, and part of me was saying "no."


I thought so too. I'm feeling some sexual tension building there...

They appeared to be holding hands as they exited the cave. All in all, a pleasant first date for both of them.

How many times did Bron escape death? Roll Eyes


I thought they were holding hands too at first, but it was just the camera angle. In the cave scene, it almost seemed like Dany was ready to bend the knee herself, if you catch my drift.

Ayra's scene was awesome. In a way, I think nobody other than Brienne ever took her seriously.

Stannis would be proud that Davos took up his Grammar-Nazi mantle.

So much sadness and suffering at the last battle scene, I literately cried and froze up the moment...... when Bron dropped his gold and contemplated. No Gold, No Castle, only a fat Lady Lolis. Razz Razz Razz
The Sansa/Arya reunion was flat...poor writing. I can't think GRRM signed off on that scene.

Even thought the battle had its moment, there was implausibility that made for some cheesy moments, such as Bronn handling the crossbow so effortlessly, and getting off, like, 5 shots. And cinematographically speaking, I would have like lento have seen a better wide angle shot of the battle.

And for Christ sakes, you have an effing dragon....come in from the flank and cook the whole line in one pass...minimize your exposure. The enemy line will break and let your cavalry do the rest. I was thinking if Jaime possibly survives this, I'm going to start writing screenplays.

Other than that it was pretty good Razz
He only got two shots off. A practice shot (which almost hit), and the second shot which brought down the dragon. Excellent marksmanship for Bronn.

Still, since they had the scorpion wagon, where was the dedicated AA crew for that weapon? Why weren't they firing it?

Also, since they had the AA wagon, that meant that they anticipated seeing a dragon. Which means you should have anticipated the napalm attack on your bunched-up troops.

The fact is, without similar air support or very effective anti-aircraft (one scorpion is not sufficient AA), the Lannister army was toast (pun intended) from the get-go.
Ok so finally caught up this season.

Wtf, why does every army/navy get caught completely off guard?

Only Euron's half of the Iron Fleet knows how to scout?

The Lannister/Tarly army marchs from the Crownlands all the way to Highgarden and the Tyrells can't put up a decent defense? The Reach has the largest standing army in Westeros and the Tarlys are not the most powerful house. House Hightower is probably the most powerful non-great house. And the rationale for why they lost a siege in few days is "we're not good at fighting"?

Seasoned battle commanders like Jaime Lannister and Randyll Tarly are caught completely off guard by a Dothraki horde? Please.

Also, it seemed pretty unlikely that Jaime Lannister of all people, a man with no honor left in the eyes of the people, was able to convince someone like Randyll Tarly to betray a house he's been loyal to for his entire life to fight for someone like Cersei. Especially given that there was a Targaryen army off the coast, a King in the North, a defiant Dorne, and his sworn Lord in open rebellion. Self-preservation seemed illogical. And Tarly was not Roose Bolton or Walder Frey.

Despite the plot holes, I'm loving it.
Danyull,

Agree with you completely on the lack of scouts. Any decent army would have outriders, scouts and pickets at least 10-20 miles out. The Lannisters should never have been caught like that in the field. As King Robert once said, only a fool meets the Dothraki in the open field.

It's even harder for a fleet to fall upon another by surprise.

And I agree about House Tarly. They were bannermen to House Tyrell. I don't recall anything about Cersei promising to make them the replacement House for Highgarden, but maybe that happened.

Still, if everything was logical and militarily sound, it would be a much longer, more boring show.
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
Dudes, there are dragons, ice zombies and people being brought back to life. Can we chill on the lack of military realism?


Yes, but what I thought was very good about Martin's books was that while magic existed in his world, it was very rare. It's not like walking around in Hogwarts where even the paintings on the wall moved. For most people in Westeros, magic didn't even exist. No one in Westeros had seen a dragon (which technically isn't magical) in 300 years, or ice zombies in thousands of years. Asking a Westerosi to believe in an ice zombie is like asking you or me to believe in an animated mummy.

So, you should expect Westerosi armies to be very conventional in their tactics, for the most part. Of course, now that they've seen that dragons are real, they are going to have to adjust.
I can incorporate the fantasy aspects into the world easily.

But it just doesn't fit with how much political strategy is going around for everyone to be military eff-ups. It just seems like the show writers are lazy.

Euron is able to ambush two separate fleets on opposite sides of a continent? Westeros is at LEAST the size of California, it would take more than a few days to sail around Dorne, back up the Reach and up to the Westerlands at Casterly Rock. Come on.

Also, Dragonstone is pretty close to Kings Landing. How did they have no idea about Eurons gigantic fleet anchored off Kings Landing.
A much slower episode after last week's - which was to be expected.

However, some major bombs dropped last night.

Cersei claiming to be pregnant; some pretty wild news. My bet is that she somehow loses the baby, which finally pushes her over the edge of lunacy.

Littlefinger playing some 4D chess against Arya, and winning. Let's see how that all plays out, but I have a feeling next episode will feature some major Arya Vs. Sansa conflict. Question is, where is Bran in all of this?

Jon mother-fuckin' Targaryen!!! How is this all gonna play it?? Will he get along with his auntie?? When is Gilly gonna put two and two together, and how?

The GoT All-Star team heading out past the wall is gonna be amazing. Who's gonna die out there, and what's gonna happen with Gendry? Pretty cool to see him and Jon Snow Targaryen having a bro-crush.

Only 2 episodes left though, with a feature-length finale, should be pretty amazing.
Still enjoyable.

I thought it was a very bad decision to burn Randall and Dickon Tarly with dragonfire. First, that's not what you do to POWs, and second, using fire to kill them strikes too close to the Mad King. I also wonder what the Dothraki think of offering your enemies the option to "bend the knee." I imagine there might be some grumbling about that.

I liked the fact that Gilly read the scroll about the annulment and that Sam didn't pick up on it. I know the majority of the audience was screaming at him about that, but why would Sam care about the annulment of the marriage of a dead Targaryen prince and subsequent remarriage? He's focusing on the Night King. I imagine though, at some point in the future, he's going to say: "Wait a second, Gilly, what did you tell me about that annulment thing?" and it's all going to click. Until then, we the audience know it, but they don't.

Loved Davos' line about "still rowing" to Gendry. Nice acknowledgement of the Internet's effect on this series.

I don't really buy the "let's go get a wight and bring it back so everyone can see we are telling the truth" strategy. And I certainly don't buy the concept of sending all the leaders (including the King in the North, and the leader of the free folk) to go get one. That's what you have rangers in the Nights Watch for. The idea of an Ocean's Eleven team going out there seemed a bit much. I wondered whether I was witnessing the jumping of a shark.
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
Still enjoyable.

I thought it was a very bad decision to burn Randall and Dickon Tarly with dragonfire. First, that's not what you do to POWs, and second, using fire to kill them strikes too close to the Mad King. I also wonder what the Dothraki think of offering your enemies the option to "bend the knee." I imagine there might be some grumbling about that.

I liked the fact that Gilly read the scroll about the annulment and that Sam didn't pick up on it. I know the majority of the audience was screaming at him about that, but why would Sam care about the annulment of the marriage of a dead Targaryen prince and subsequent remarriage? He's focusing on the Night King. I imagine though, at some point in the future, he's going to say: "Wait a second, Gilly, what did you tell me about that annulment thing?" and it's all going to click. Until then, we the audience know it, but they don't.

Loved Davos' line about "still rowing" to Gendry. Nice acknowledgement of the Internet's effect on this series.

I don't really buy the "let's go get a wight and bring it back so everyone can see we are telling the truth" strategy. And I certainly don't buy the concept of sending all the leaders (including the King in the North, and the leader of the free folk) to go get one. That's what you have rangers in the Nights Watch for. The idea of an Ocean's Eleven team going out there seemed a bit much. I wondered whether I was witnessing the jumping of a shark.


Drama has replaced strategery but that's ok. There's obviously a really important story element that has to involve Jon Snow and his SEAL team 6 in beyond the wall that should be epic.

I think it's a little odd that we're going to go from Jon Snow to Jon Targaryen. An annulment would be really weird plot hole as Rhaegar had 2 children by Elia Martell and seemingly nobody else knew about it. Essentially divorcing a princess of Dorne to marry someone else seems like a hard secret to keep. Hopefully they explain it.

So succession-wise, that puts Jon Targaryen > Danaerys Targaryen. The Father of Dragons???
quote:
Originally posted by Danyull:
I thought it was interesting that Danaerys was not more interested in Drogon's interest in Jon Snow.

I thought that scene was rather odd: Why did she fly up and land in front of him like that? Why not further back? Well, of course, the writers had to find a moment when Jon would interact with the dragons, and Danaerys needed to be nearby to see for herself. I suppose she couldn't just have walked the dragon up on a leash for Jon to pet it. Smile

As a result, I think she suspects that there is some Targaryen blood in his veins. How else could he become so intimate with the dragon, so quickly?

The bigger question running through her mind is: How incestuous would it be to hook up with Jon (which, we all know, is what she has wanted since they locked eyes in that cave)? Would it be as incestuous as...say...a couple of Lannister siblings procreating thrice?
Ok. So... is Tyrion a Targeryen/Snow?

He also was able to communicate with / keep docile the dragons (in the cave where they were chained). His mother also died giving birth to him. Do non-Targeryen women die when giving birth to Targeryen men? (Dany's still-born fetus looked dragon-like, but she was able to carry it.) Is that why that line has so much incest? Tywin always hated Tyrion. Right before Tyrion killed him, Tywin claimed that Tyrion was not his son. Was he being literal? Could the Mad King have impregnated Tyrion's mother? There are three dragons. Are there only two dragon riders / living Targeryens? And if there are 3 Targeryens alive, and we have met all three, it doesn't seem plausible that it be anyone else. Ep1, S1 Tyrion claims to Jon that dwarfs are treated like bastards by their fathers. What if he was treated like a bastard because he is one?
I thought it was a great episode. Lots of suspense: Is Jon going to die? Is Beric going to die? Is Tormund going to die? Oh my, look who just died!

All that to capture a single wight. To paraphrase Saving Private Ryan, that had better be a real special wight - like it had better discover the cure for cancer or something.

So much for the idea of the three heads of the dragon and the three dragon riders.
I read somewhere that the "three heads of the dragon" was still a possibility in that Jon and Dany were gonna make a baby, but who knows.

I never thought I'd be so sad over the death of a dragon - that scene was beautifully done.

Aside from that, I actually thought it was a pretty poorly written episode. Granted, yes, it was great for moving the storyline forward but the Hound throwing the stones was so predictable and a really lazy way of moving things forward, the dragon's saving the men on the island was too "milked" IMO, they would've been dead by then, Uncle Benjen was lame and too "out of nowhere", the Sansa v. Arya thing feels lazy, etc.

So yeah, good episode in terms of plot revelations and moving things forward - but I felt like a lot of it was lazily written.

With all that being said, looks like CLEGANEBOWL is confirmed!!!
Gig, agreed - one of the things about the writing that made the episode seem sloppy to me.

It would've made more sense if Tyrion had convinced Dany that the WW's were true, or even that Dany had a vision or dream, and decided to head out on her own and surprise everyone. But the whole "you run back to the wall! Dispatch the raven! Fly to the battle (which you have to find)!" all before the water freezes again was just lazy.

Again, I know we aren't debating how "realistic" the show is, but some things just leave too big of a gap and could have seemingly been addressed with smarter writing.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorgerunfast:
Gig, agreed - one of the things about the writing that made the episode seem sloppy to me.

It would've made more sense if Tyrion had convinced Dany that the WW's were true, or even that Dany had a vision or dream, and decided to head out on her own and surprise everyone. But the whole "you run back to the wall! Dispatch the raven! Fly to the battle (which you have to find)!" all before the water freezes again was just lazy.

Again, I know we aren't debating how "realistic" the show is, but some things just leave too big of a gap and could have seemingly been addressed with smarter writing.


Basically, Gendry role in the episode was old school booty call text.

So much easier to asking someone "u up?" now.
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
I thought it was a great episode. Lots of suspense: Is Jon going to die? Is Beric going to die? Is Tormund going to die? Oh my, look who just died!

All that to capture a single wight. To paraphrase Saving Private Ryan, that had better be a real special wight - like it had better discover the cure for cancer or something.

So much for the idea of the three heads of the dragon and the three dragon riders.

LOL, Saving Private Ryan. I agree with what many people said of the Episode. The writing is rushed without the sense of witty dialogue in S1-6. Speaking of the subject, I do hope for Littlefinger and Varys Reunion. But only if Ayra doesn't faceoff~ with him first.


A few standout moments this episode

- Fast travel skyrim style
- Jon's stupid plan
- Ayra-Sansa rift caused by Littlefinger, but Bran the creepy kid seemingly did nothing to stop it.
- why didn't the Olympian Night King use the Javalin in the first place
- Dany's pointless arguements with Tyrion

+ Dragons and lots of slashing wights
+ Exchange between Tormund and Sandor Clegane (TWO THUMBS UP)
+ Polar bear
+ Beric's fire sword
+ Other funny dialogues like. "This one has been killed 6 times, you don't see him complaining".


Looking forward to the fan-rumored Cleganebowl next week !!!
I never read the books but heard some collapse under their own weight and it seems like Martin was having a hard time wrapping it up. I think some of the criticisms here about time passing too fast would have been fixed by a little banner that says 2 nights later or 3 months later, but that would have looked cheesey. Also didn't the sun go down when they were on the island indicating time had passed? The battle scenes are cool and insanely tense because anyone can die at anytime in this show. I also like it when they just sit around and talk. I wish there were two 12 episode seasons because this show deserves it but somehow they cannot seem to come up with a happy medium between telling their detailed story and getting to the point and ending it. Looking forward to the spinoffs.
I still say there is too much foreshadowing of Tyrion being fathered by the mad king for it not to be addressed.

I'd love to see Arya kill Littlefinger then loose the game of faces with Sansa. Or, at least, I think that is one of the possible setups.

I maintain my position that Bran is a waste of time; and an ill-concieved character. If they had wanted to explain why he is named "after" 'Bran the Builder' (the builder of The Wall) they needed to do it sooner.
quote:
Originally posted by VinT:
There is a ridiculous amount of GoT tourism now in Northern Ireland. Every seawall, pasture and castle, whether known previously or not, is now jammed with gawkers taking selfies. I supposed it's a boon to the local economy but irritates the locals to no end.
Sorry for the drift. Carry on!

My understanding is that Dubrovnik, Croatia has seen a marked increase in actual median income not only due to explicit GoT tourism but also due to the tremendous uptick in awareness of the beautiful city that GoT has brought.
So now we go back to our small and pitiful lives for another year or so...

The season finale was satisfying.

It also got me to thinking. SPOILERS AHEAD

So the way the Night King got the Wall down was with the dragon. What was his plan for getting through the Wall before he learned about the existence of the dragons and was able to resurrect one (which took place only a short while ago)? He's been marching towards the Wall for a long time - was he just going to wing it when he got there?

It made me wonder if the Night King has a touch of Bran's ability to see into the past/future. Don't forget that the Night King was able to see and touch Bran when Bran did his "second sight" thing a few seasons ago. As far as I can recall, he's the only one who's been able to directly interact with Bran (Ned Stark heard Bran briefly at the Tower in Dorne but shrugged it off).

So, if the Night King is able to use second sight himself, then maybe he was able to foresee that he would use the ice dragon at the Wall. Which meant that he knew he was going to be able to get his hands on one, and how. Which explains why he was able to get those huge chains - he made them ahead of time because he knew he'd need them to pull the dragon out after he killed it.

His plan from the get-go was that he was going to bring the Wall down with a dragon. He just hasn't been able to see far enough ahead to see what will ultimately happen (or maybe he has, and he realizes he has no choice but to follow his fate).

Anyways, that's my theory.
It was a good finale - I enjoyed it particularly Bran, Arya and Sansa teaming up to give Littlefinger what he has deserved for so long.

On the other hand, the Cersei/Dragonpit scene was too long in my opinion.

Finally, what exactly is the Ice Dragon blowing - it cannot be fire - that is entirely inconsistent with the Others - and if the wall is made of Ice and Stone and spells, how exactly would an ice blast from an ice dragon destroy it so easily? Just saying. Still was a cool scene.

And Bran and Sam hashing out Jon's lineage. Anyway - a largely enjoyable episode.
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:

Finally, what exactly is the Ice Dragon blowing - it cannot be fire - that is entirely inconsistent with the Others - and if the wall is made of Ice and Stone and spells, how exactly would an ice blast from an ice dragon destroy it so easily? Just saying. Still was a cool scene.



Icy Hot. It's cold but its hot!
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:

Finally, what exactly is the Ice Dragon blowing - it cannot be fire - that is entirely inconsistent with the Others - and if the wall is made of Ice and Stone and spells, how exactly would an ice blast from an ice dragon destroy it so easily? Just saying. Still was a cool scene.



Icy Hot. It's cold but its hot!


Cool, when I pull a muscle I will be sure to summon the Night King and his Ice Dragon for some Icy Hot.

Also, was happy to see Theon get some screen time. Alfie Allen really is good.
quote:
Originally posted by VinT:
There is a ridiculous amount of GoT tourism now in Northern Ireland. Every seawall, pasture and castle, whether known previously or not, is now jammed with gawkers taking selfies. I supposed it's a boon to the local economy but irritates the locals to no end.
Sorry for the drift. Carry on!


Totally true - we did not do any GOT touring in Northern Ireland as: (1) Of our group of 5, I was the only one who watches the show (and reads the books), and (2) I don't really care that much about where things are filmed. But our guide, when we discussed GOT, pointed lots out to me anyway. We saw where a few scenes were filmed:

A. Arya climbing out of the canal onto the steps in Braavos was filmed in a town called Glencloy

A pub with some of the carved doors in located near Ballintoy Harbor

And a bunch of Iron Islands Scenes and Renley Baratheon's camp were filmed near the Rope Bridge - Carrick-a-Rede
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:

Finally, what exactly is the Ice Dragon blowing - it cannot be fire - that is entirely inconsistent with the Others - and if the wall is made of Ice and Stone and spells, how exactly would an ice blast from an ice dragon destroy it so easily? Just saying. Still was a cool scene.



Icy Hot. It's cold but its hot!


Cool, when I pull a muscle I will be sure to summon the Night King and his Ice Dragon for some Icy Hot.

Also, was happy to see Theon get some screen time. Alfie Allen really is good.

C'mon, folks. The Ice Dragon obviously freezes excited bromide in an argon matrix......
quote:
Originally posted by fusionstorm:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:

Finally, what exactly is the Ice Dragon blowing - it cannot be fire - that is entirely inconsistent with the Others - and if the wall is made of Ice and Stone and spells, how exactly would an ice blast from an ice dragon destroy it so easily? Just saying. Still was a cool scene.



Icy Hot. It's cold but its hot!


Cool, when I pull a muscle I will be sure to summon the Night King and his Ice Dragon for some Icy Hot.

Also, was happy to see Theon get some screen time. Alfie Allen really is good.

C'mon, folks. The Ice Dragon obviously freezes excited bromide in an argon matrix......


Is this a reference from something?

Otherwise dragons are making liquid lazers?
quote:
Originally posted by Danyull:
quote:
Originally posted by fusionstorm:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:

Finally, what exactly is the Ice Dragon blowing - it cannot be fire - that is entirely inconsistent with the Others - and if the wall is made of Ice and Stone and spells, how exactly would an ice blast from an ice dragon destroy it so easily? Just saying. Still was a cool scene.



Icy Hot. It's cold but its hot!


Cool, when I pull a muscle I will be sure to summon the Night King and his Ice Dragon for some Icy Hot.

Also, was happy to see Theon get some screen time. Alfie Allen really is good.

C'mon, folks. The Ice Dragon obviously freezes excited bromide in an argon matrix......


Is this a reference from something?

Otherwise dragons are making liquid lazers?

Never seen the movie "Real Genius", bruh???
quote:
Originally posted by fusionstorm:
quote:
Originally posted by Danyull:
quote:
Originally posted by fusionstorm:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:

Finally, what exactly is the Ice Dragon blowing - it cannot be fire - that is entirely inconsistent with the Others - and if the wall is made of Ice and Stone and spells, how exactly would an ice blast from an ice dragon destroy it so easily? Just saying. Still was a cool scene.



Icy Hot. It's cold but its hot!


Cool, when I pull a muscle I will be sure to summon the Night King and his Ice Dragon for some Icy Hot.

Also, was happy to see Theon get some screen time. Alfie Allen really is good.

C'mon, folks. The Ice Dragon obviously freezes excited bromide in an argon matrix......


Is this a reference from something?

Otherwise dragons are making liquid lazers?

Never seen the movie "Real Genius", bruh???


Was born the year before, sorry.
quote:
Originally posted by Danyull:
quote:
Originally posted by fusionstorm:
quote:
Originally posted by Danyull:
quote:
Originally posted by fusionstorm:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:

Finally, what exactly is the Ice Dragon blowing - it cannot be fire - that is entirely inconsistent with the Others - and if the wall is made of Ice and Stone and spells, how exactly would an ice blast from an ice dragon destroy it so easily? Just saying. Still was a cool scene.



Icy Hot. It's cold but its hot!


Cool, when I pull a muscle I will be sure to summon the Night King and his Ice Dragon for some Icy Hot.

Also, was happy to see Theon get some screen time. Alfie Allen really is good.

C'mon, folks. The Ice Dragon obviously freezes excited bromide in an argon matrix......


Is this a reference from something?

Otherwise dragons are making liquid lazers?

Never seen the movie "Real Genius", bruh???


Was born the year before, sorry.

So you've yet to see the following b/c they were made before you were born?

The Godfather
The Godfather, Part II
Star Wars trilogy (original)
Apocalypse Now
Alien
Airplane
Blazing Saddles
2001: A Space Odyssey
Raiders of the Lost Ark
Rocky
Shane
Midnight Cowboy
Raging Bull
Blade Runner
Casablanca
Animal House
Enter the Dragon (and every other Bruce Lee film)
Drunken Master
The Seven Samurai
Yojimbo
Last Tango in Paris

Just to name a few of many......
quote:
Originally posted by fusionstorm:
quote:
Originally posted by Danyull:
quote:
Originally posted by fusionstorm:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
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Originally posted by Rothko:
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Originally posted by Jcocktosten:

Finally, what exactly is the Ice Dragon blowing - it cannot be fire - that is entirely inconsistent with the Others - and if the wall is made of Ice and Stone and spells, how exactly would an ice blast from an ice dragon destroy it so easily? Just saying. Still was a cool scene.



Icy Hot. It's cold but its hot!


Cool, when I pull a muscle I will be sure to summon the Night King and his Ice Dragon for some Icy Hot.

Also, was happy to see Theon get some screen time. Alfie Allen really is good.

C'mon, folks. The Ice Dragon obviously freezes excited bromide in an argon matrix......


Is this a reference from something?

Otherwise dragons are making liquid lazers?

Never seen the movie "Real Genius", bruh???


I loved this movie when I was growing up - and have no idea how many times I have seen it but it is a lot. May have been the first Val Kilmer movie I saw.
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Originally posted by fusionstorm:
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Originally posted by Danyull:
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Originally posted by fusionstorm:
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Originally posted by Danyull:
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Originally posted by fusionstorm:
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Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
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Originally posted by Rothko:
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Originally posted by Jcocktosten:

Finally, what exactly is the Ice Dragon blowing - it cannot be fire - that is entirely inconsistent with the Others - and if the wall is made of Ice and Stone and spells, how exactly would an ice blast from an ice dragon destroy it so easily? Just saying. Still was a cool scene.



Icy Hot. It's cold but its hot!


Cool, when I pull a muscle I will be sure to summon the Night King and his Ice Dragon for some Icy Hot.

Also, was happy to see Theon get some screen time. Alfie Allen really is good.

C'mon, folks. The Ice Dragon obviously freezes excited bromide in an argon matrix......


Is this a reference from something?

Otherwise dragons are making liquid lazers?

Never seen the movie "Real Genius", bruh???


Was born the year before, sorry.

So you've yet to see the following b/c they were made before you were born?

The Godfather
The Godfather, Part II
Star Wars trilogy (original)
Apocalypse Now
Alien
Airplane
Blazing Saddles
2001: A Space Odyssey
Raiders of the Lost Ark
Rocky
Shane
Midnight Cowboy
Raging Bull
Blade Runner
Casablanca
Animal House
Enter the Dragon (and every other Bruce Lee film)
Drunken Master
The Seven Samurai
Yojimbo
Last Tango in Paris

Just to name a few of many......


I have watched half of those, and at least heard of the rest. Is Real Genius supposed to be a great movie?
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Originally posted by fusionstorm:
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Originally posted by Danyull:
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Originally posted by fusionstorm:
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Originally posted by Danyull:
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Originally posted by fusionstorm:
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Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
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Originally posted by Rothko:
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Originally posted by Jcocktosten:

Finally, what exactly is the Ice Dragon blowing - it cannot be fire - that is entirely inconsistent with the Others - and if the wall is made of Ice and Stone and spells, how exactly would an ice blast from an ice dragon destroy it so easily? Just saying. Still was a cool scene.



Icy Hot. It's cold but its hot!


Cool, when I pull a muscle I will be sure to summon the Night King and his Ice Dragon for some Icy Hot.

Also, was happy to see Theon get some screen time. Alfie Allen really is good.

C'mon, folks. The Ice Dragon obviously freezes excited bromide in an argon matrix......


Is this a reference from something?

Otherwise dragons are making liquid lazers?

Never seen the movie "Real Genius", bruh???


Was born the year before, sorry.

So you've yet to see the following b/c they were made before you were born?

The Godfather
The Godfather, Part II
Star Wars trilogy (original)
Apocalypse Now
Alien
Airplane
Blazing Saddles
2001: A Space Odyssey
Raiders of the Lost Ark
Rocky
Shane
Midnight Cowboy
Raging Bull
Blade Runner
Casablanca
Animal House
Enter the Dragon (and every other Bruce Lee film)
Drunken Master
The Seven Samurai
Yojimbo
Last Tango in Paris

Just to name a few of many......
I have seen Real Genius but the only other movies I have seen on this list is Raiders and The Godfather movies. I've heard of most of them. I was born in 1976.
Just got through binge watching season 7. Seems to me that since they are now past GRRM's books, the new writers(producers?) are trying to simplify and streamline the narrative. A lot of loose ends were tied up or looped back into the main storyline. Perhaps because there were only 7 episodes, or perhaps because so much more money is being spent on SFX?
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Originally posted by mneeley490:
Just got through binge watching season 7. Seems to me that since they are now past GRRM's books, the new writers(producers?) are trying to simplify and streamline the narrative. A lot of loose ends were tied up or looped back into the main storyline. Perhaps because there were only 7 episodes, or perhaps because so much more money is being spent on SFX?


I'm also about ready to finish season 7, probably tonight. I read the books a number of years ago and just signed up for HBO recently and have powered through the first six seasons. Agree with the quickening of tying up of loose ends and frankly it's nice to see things that I have no idea how they will turn out. Still a couple seasons worth of work to tie everything up.

What I found interesting / annoying while working my way from Season 1 Episode 1 is how much filler has been jammed in there as the seasons progressed. I understand the why, but it's interesting when Season 1 was 62 minutes of straight show, then it gradually went to recap of previous episodes and writer commentary post episode all the way to a weak 7 episode current season.
jcocktosten posted:

Good episode - lots of reunions desired by fans - Could use less Euron, ugh.

In one sense, I agree about Euron. I hate him. But it seems he may have a bigger role to play in how this all ends. I don’t fully see where any of the Greyjoy’s fit in, to be honest. But, it does seem they’ll all have a part to play. And hating Euron... to some extent it’s like wanting less Joeffery. Not saying he is as bad as Joeffery, necessarily. But he isn’t less interesting than Joeffery. (It isn’t like Cersei who is a horrible person, yet a more complex and interesting character whom I enjoy watching on screen for her interesting-ness.)  The show may simply need uncomplicated despicable characters, too. 

Loved some of those reunions. Especially the very last one. 

The pieces on the board are starting to gather.  When you only have four locations in the opening sequence (The Wall; the Last Hearth; Kings Landing; and Winterfell), the show is starting to tighten up.

Smart move for Cersei to welcome Euron into her bed; now she has plausible deniability that the child she is carrying is Jamie's.  Not that I think she's going to live long enough to deliver it.

Sansa being worried about feeding the Army is a nice nod to the logistics that most shows never consider.  How do you feed, quarter, transport, and equipment southern armies for combat operations in the North?   Ask the Germans in WWII about that. 

Makes you appreciate how easy the Night King has it.  He doesn't have to worry about feeding, quartering or clothing his troops.  Every battle he fights adds more soldiers to his army, while reducing the enemy.  Frankly, the Army of the Dead is pretty much invincible.  Unless you kill the head honcho, then everybody else dies.    

Last edited by Rothko

The final books will never be written.

I think that George RR Martin has written himself into a corner with the last books with far too many open and expanding plot lines, and is neither interested nor motivated nor contractually obligated to complete them. 

He's been living the good life as a wildly successful writer (not that I blame him at all) and he isn't getting any younger.

He really should just hire a team of writers to finish up the novels for him, and just attend high-level meetings to work out the final plots and goals.

This one was very disappointing.  

The dragons being ambushed by a fleet is about as realistic as the US battleships ambushing the Japanese planes on December 7, 1941.

Cersei not killing Tyrion is completely irrational and against her character.  Didn't she just hire Bronn to kill him and Jaime?  And there he is, standing right below the gates.  And while she's willing to send a message by killing Missandei, she isn't willing to kill Tyrion?  Does he just turn around and walk away.

And Jon Snow tells his sisters his big "secret" which, as Varys points out, is no longer a secret but is information.  And Sansa immediately blabs; so much for the power of her word.

Really, I was tempted to turn off the tv.

Rothko posted:

This one was very disappointing.  

The dragons being ambushed by a fleet is about as realistic as the US battleships ambushing the Japanese planes on December 7, 1941.

Cersei not killing Tyrion is completely irrational and against her character.  Didn't she just hire Bronn to kill him and Jaime?  And there he is, standing right below the gates.  And while she's willing to send a message by killing Missandei, she isn't willing to kill Tyrion?  Does he just turn around and walk away.

And Jon Snow tells his sisters his big "secret" which, as Varys points out, is no longer a secret but is information.  And Sansa immediately blabs; so much for the power of her word.

Really, I was tempted to turn off the tv.

I wasn’t as disappointed as you. But it definitely felt like “Ok. We need the following things to happen in episodes 5 and 6, so let’s do everything to set those episodes up, irrespective of ultimate storytelling quality.”

Looking forward to next week, though. 

This season has been disappointing, so far. 

At this point, the characters have become tired and predictable; the story-line implausible; the script weak; and editing very poor.   (We waited two years for this?)

How many shots of Tyrion pouting, Danaerys glaring, and Cersei scowling must we endure?

Frankly, I don't care how it ends; I just want it to end.

SPOILER ALERT:

Well that puts this great show in the impossible position of trying to get redemption or revenge in one episode. It was kind of like--what exactly have we been watching Daenery for years for? Notice there was no close-up or even a full frame view of her during the rampage. While I don't know what to make of this penultimate episode I still put this as the third best mini-series after The Wire and Battlestar Galactica.

I said eight years ago they'd never be able to pull this off, and with all those kids actors that often don't turn out well as adult actors and the very large cast that would have to be available year after year, I really didn't think they'd be able to keep it together.  Add in often great cinematography, special effects and smart directing it's a series that should stand near the top of similar efforts for a long time.

Last edited by The Old Man

I actually thought that episode was a bit weak-sauce. Too much slow motion, too much repetitive shots, especially in the second half. <spoiler alert> I expected the last word of the episode to be “Daenerys Targaryen”. I would put at least even odds on Arya doing a twofer. And, “you know nothing, Jon Snow” seems super appropriate here. I was also saddened by Tyrion turning in Varys. But, still enjoyable. A lot has to happen in one episode. 

Overall, it is hard for me to rank this vompared to other TV dramas. But, in terms of entire runs, the only TV drama I’ve seen that I would put even near GOT is The Americans. Which did actually land the plane nearly perfectly. 

sunnylea57 posted:

I wanted Cersei to yell down at them, "I fart in your general direction!"

I'm with Gig and Rothko in the disappointed camp. The writers seemed to be in a big hurry to end this series.And the belief suspension required is off the scales. Gregor with a sword through the head?

And that is not the way I wanted Cersei to die. Something much slower and far more painful. I am assuming she is dead, which may not be the case.

steve8 posted

I'm with Gig and Rothko in the disappointed camp. The writers seemed to be in a big hurry to end this series.And the belief suspension required is off the scales. Gregor with a sword through the head?

And that is not the way I wanted Cersei to die. Something much slower and far more painful. I am assuming she is dead, which may not be the case.

The Mountain is undead. This knife action and the Mountain's state of existence is pure H.P. Lovecraft. Martin is a fan.

Cersei is dead, and not making viewers/readers happy is the way it goes in Martin's world.

Last edited by The Old Man

I am catching up as I could not watch the last 2 episodes when we were in Portugal -I largely know what happens and sort of dread watching but . . .

I really don't get the surprise about Dany burning King's Landing - from both the books and show - to me this has seemed fairly obvious - watching episode 4 - it was clearly going to happen - her entitlement which was always there has only gotten greater as the show has proceeded.  Perhaps its just me, but when I re-read the books I normally skip all Dany chapters as I simply can't stand her or her story line

Scenes with Jon in episode 4 clearly show what her reaction is going to be in episode 5 - so all this talk about D & D not earning the payoff and ruining her character etc. seem like a lot of BS to me. Are the last 2 seasons rushed?  Of course - but I am of the camp of giving them a break. I love the books (as I love most good fantasy series) and what they have done making the world care so much about it is an amazing feat as far as I am concerned.

jcocktosten posted:

I am catching up as I could not watch the last 2 episodes when we were in Portugal -I largely know what happens and sort of dread watching but . . .

I really don't get the surprise about Dany burning King's Landing - from both the books and show - to me this has seemed fairly obvious - watching episode 4 - it was clearly going to happen - her entitlement which was always there has only gotten greater as the show has proceeded.  Perhaps its just me, but when I re-read the books I normally skip all Dany chapters as I simply can't stand her or her story line

Scenes with Jon in episode 4 clearly show what her reaction is going to be in episode 5 - so all this talk about D & D not earning the payoff and ruining her character etc. seem like a lot of BS to me. Are the last 2 seasons rushed?  Of course - but I am of the camp of giving them a break. I love the books (as I love most good fantasy series) and what they have done making the world care so much about it is an amazing feat as far as I am concerned.

I'm with you..all the fuss seems a bit silly.  It is only a TV show after all.  But agree the writing is weaker without Martin driving the bus....they are writing for a TV audience, not a reading audience.

gigabit posted:
jcocktosten posted:

And it would have made much more sense for Jon to choose to go North rather than the Unsullied and Grey Worm deciding it for some reason

Speaking of the Unsullied, how is it that they and the Dothraki magically multiplied into thousands and hundreds of soldiers?

That was my other question - especially the Dothraki . . .

None of it really matters - I am ultimately happy and despite all the complaints (many legit. and many manufactured) - I giveBenioff and Weiss, Cogman, the directors and the actors credit for their momentous achievement and while I have quibbles for sure - I am reasonably satisfied.  

I am reasonably satisfied by the ending, although I have some issues:

I really wanted to see Jon Snow go full Targaryen and take over command of Drogon after Dany's death, fly down and crisp the Unsullied and Dothraki and then declare himself the rightful king of the Seven Kingdoms.

When Sansa declared that the North would be a separate kingdom (because it had been one for centuries before), I wanted to new Prince of Dorne to perk up and say "Uhh, yeah, us too.  We were the only kingdom not conquered by the Targaryens, so we are going our own way also."   And then all the other ones deciding they too would rather be independent.

The Wheel isn't broken.  It's in fine condition.  Here's what's going to happen.  Bran will rule wisely and well, and all the other Houses will rebuild or consolidate their power during the peace.  The Small Council will run the day to day business.  When Bran dies, the Electoral College will appoint a new king.  In time, either this new king or one of his successors will have a son, and will say to himself "I'd like to start a dynasty."  The Small Council will scheme amongst themselves, and the high Houses will start to jockey for power and position, just as they did when Robert died.  Eventually, there will be a new dynasty and we will be right back to where we were.  They should have had Bran say to Sam "I like your idea about the people voting.  I have this idea about a thing called Parliament I'd like to discuss with you."

Are Sansa and Tyrion still married?  I'm not aware that they got a divorce, despite Sansa's second and illegal marriage to Ramsey.  

Is Tyrion the Lord of Casterly Rock now?

Dorne should be the true superpower in Westeros now.  Aren't they the only ones with an intact army left?

Jon Snow going back to the Night's Watch, and I guess becoming the Lord Commander again, was interesting.  What is the Night's Watch role now?  It was too bad they didn't show Tormund with a smoking hot Wildling woman and then turning to Jon Snow and saying "Her twin sister thinks you're cute."

I would have liked a final ending that had either a nest of dragon eggs in Volantis hatching while Drogon watched or one of Craster's sons in the far North opening his eyes and they are "Night King blue".

The Old Man posted:
spo posted:

I wish this show had gone 10-13 seasons like George RR Martin thought it should. HBO 👎

There is no way in the world they could have sustained the show for that long.

Even if they couldn't sustain for another 1 season, they could have received a blank cheque for 10 episodes. D&D decided to finish it in 6. 

At this point in time, GRRM has stated that he is looking to finish the books by July 2020 or something like that. I can only hope in 10 years they do a redo past S6, because the writing got worse and worse. 

spo posted:
The Old Man posted:
spo posted:

I wish this show had gone 10-13 seasons like George RR Martin thought it should. HBO 👎

There is no way in the world they could have sustained the show for that long.

Why do you think that? Not even 10 seasons? 

First this is a very difficult show to produce year and year just because of the logistics and weather. Now through in a very large cast, who pretty much can't be replaced (I think only one major character was recast early in the show.) The two girls--now women--both struggled with various mental issues over the years. Sophie Turner had to deal with years of people hating on her character (though I'm not one of them) until Sansa's major character change.

It's much easier to go 12 seasons on The Big Bang when everyone lives around LA and you're not outside battling the elements.

Last edited by The Old Man
spo posted:

 Some game of thrones news. I heard one of the Game of Thrones spinoff/prequels got cancelled but they will make a show about the Targaryens. I hope they find some good writers.

benioff and Weiss made a confession about not really understanding game of thrones that well ....

I loved GoT and I'm a defender, but not lover, of the final season, but I have no interest in watching anymore tales of Westeros.

spo posted:

 Some game of thrones news. I heard one of the Game of Thrones spinoff/prequels got cancelled but they will make a show about the Targaryens. I hope they find some good writers.

benioff and Weiss made a confession about not really understanding game of thrones that well ....

Is it? Wow I didn't know this. Yeah I hope they find good writers for it.

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