Skip to main content

quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
quote:
Originally posted by SD-Wineaux:
Ultimately, I'll wait for the next damn book. I'll buy the blu-ray when it comes out, but I've never found any movie or AV production that could out-do a well constructed book.


Well, you are making an assumption that the next book will be well constructed. The last two were... disappointing... to most people.


Those people were wrong.



+1

I'm personally not so keen on the whole plot thread involving the dragons, but other than that, I put this series on par with Tolkien's best. I have enjoyed each book, though some perhaps a little bit more than others.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
Shocking, but obvious.

HBO might finish series without waiting for the books

From the article: "Last night’s premiere raked in over 6.6 million viewers, the most for the network since the finale of The Sopranos in 2007"

If you count DVR, ONDemmand, and HBO Go watching, all things that were not as prevalent 7 years ago, that would presumably make it the most watched episode in the history of HBO.

Probably deservedly, imo.
quote:
Originally posted by Seaquam:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
quote:
Originally posted by SD-Wineaux:
Ultimately, I'll wait for the next damn book. I'll buy the blu-ray when it comes out, but I've never found any movie or AV production that could out-do a well constructed book.


Well, you are making an assumption that the next book will be well constructed. The last two were... disappointing... to most people.


Those people were wrong.



+1

I'm personally not so keen on the whole plot thread involving the dragons, but other than that, I put this series on par with Tolkien's best. I have enjoyed each book, though some perhaps a little bit more than others.

NO BOOK SPOILERS, PLEASE!!!!
Smile
quote:
Originally posted by Seaquam:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
quote:
Originally posted by SD-Wineaux:
Ultimately, I'll wait for the next damn book. I'll buy the blu-ray when it comes out, but I've never found any movie or AV production that could out-do a well constructed book.


Well, you are making an assumption that the next book will be well constructed. The last two were... disappointing... to most people.


Those people were wrong.



+1

I'm personally not so keen on the whole plot thread involving the dragons, but other than that, I put this series on par with Tolkien's best. I have enjoyed each book, though some perhaps a little bit more than others.

I really enjoyed the books, but not quite as much as Lord Of The Rings (there is a lifetime of bias built into that statement).

I do believe, however, that Martin has done a masterful job of creating an incredibly diverse, interesting world.

I never thought I would read a story with more characters than those found in Tolkein's Middle Earth.
quote:
Originally posted by SD-Wineaux:
Ultimately, I'll wait for the next damn book. I'll buy the blu-ray when it comes out, but I've never found any movie or AV production that could out-do a well constructed book.

I find comparing books and movies to be meaningless. However almost all of my top movies were written directly for for the screen.
From the LA Times: Games of Thrones renewed for two more seasons.
quote:
The two new seasons will be the fifth and sixth and will tackle events in the fourth and fifth books in author George R.R. Martin's series "A Song of Ice and Fire."

"A Feast for Crows" and "A Dance With Dragons" are notable in the series for following different sets of characters in the same time frame. While the show's producers, Benioff and Weiss, have not said how they will handle the events of those books on screen, it's likely the character stories will be reconfigured to keep all the characters (at least those still alive) in every season.


As predicted in this thread.
quote:
Originally posted by gigabit:
I preferred the previous actor that played Daario Naharis. His look and mannerisms were, imo, much more consistent with the character from the books.

This new actor looks and speaks like a knight from Westeros, not a Tyroshi sellsword and leader of the Stormcrows.


Agreed although neither of them have the right hair. In the show, they are the Second Sons not the Stormcrows I think
quote:
Originally posted by gigabit:
I preferred the previous actor that played Daario Naharis. His look and mannerisms were, imo, much more consistent with the character from the books.

This new actor looks and speaks like a knight from Westeros, not a Tyroshi sellsword and leader of the Stormcrows.

Yes, I can't see Dannery having the hots for him either. Oh well, a slight fall in perfection.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by Whoopdido:
Kahleesi is my favorite character in the show but I hate to say I'm getting a little bored with her storyline. Will she start doing something different pretty soon?

Tomorrow.

Actually as the thread properly says--no book spoilers.


Good end of episode last night . . . eager to see how they pick up next week
Saw some recent internet buzz about last night's episode . . . one entitled "the most f#%!ed up scene ever."

They were referring to the scene in front of the casket (not to give anything away here). Funny thing, I have so come to expect things like this from Game of Thrones, I let this slide through my consciousness without much of a thought -- which may in and of itself be f'd up!
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
Saw some recent internet buzz about last night's episode . . . one entitled "the most f#%!ed up scene ever."

They were referring to the scene in front of the casket (not to give anything away here). Funny thing, I have so come to expect things like this from Game of Thrones, I let this slide through my consciousness without much of a thought -- which may in and of itself be f'd up!


I know what you mean. That scene didn't shock me in any way, shape or form. It barely even registered in my mind. I was just like "hmmm...that's cool." Honestly, at this point, how anybody could be shocked by anything this show comes up with is beyond me...at least in terms of depravity. Nothing anything any of these characters could do would surprise me in the least.
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
I dunno.... Shocked? Nah. But the combination of who, what, how and particularly where/when sure was creepy.

PH


Definitely a creep-factor going on. But, that's become the signature of the show! Remember when the dear king was given an otherwise lovely lady to torture . . . now that scene creeped me out even more!
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
Saw some recent internet buzz about last night's episode . . . one entitled "the most f#%!ed up scene ever."

They were referring to the scene in front of the casket (not to give anything away here). Funny thing, I have so come to expect things like this from Game of Thrones, I let this slide through my consciousness without much of a thought -- which may in and of itself be f'd up!

This was depicted much differently in the book: not only is the timeline of Jaime's return from the war different (he wasn't present at Joffrey's death) but when the two of them were together in the Sept, Cersei was just as lustful as Jaime.
quote:
Originally posted by gigabit:
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
Saw some recent internet buzz about last night's episode . . . one entitled "the most f#%!ed up scene ever."

They were referring to the scene in front of the casket (not to give anything away here). Funny thing, I have so come to expect things like this from Game of Thrones, I let this slide through my consciousness without much of a thought -- which may in and of itself be f'd up!

This was depicted much differently in the book: not only is the timeline of Jaime's return from the war different (he wasn't present at Joffrey's death) but when the two of them were together in the Sept, Cersei was just as lustful as Jaime.


Yeah, many "book people" seem to be up in arms over that scene. I understand that it's different and that it probably changes the Jaime character a bit, but I get a little annoyed when people get so bent out of shape over changes from books. TV shows and movies are just adaptations. They can't be literal translations, or else this series would going on for like 50 years. They have to make changes just to get the show to flow properly. However, I can't disagree with those that say that this particular change was completely unnecessary. Then again, I guess I trust the show runners that they made this change for a good reason.

Even though Jaime has had a rough go of it lately and he's probably gotten "better", he's still not a good person and last Sunday's show just proved that.
quote:
Originally posted by Whoopdido:
Even though Jaime has had a rough go of it lately and he's probably gotten "better", he's still not a good person and last Sunday's show just proved that.

As terrible as his actions were, I believe that they were done out of anger toward Cersei, as if trying punish her for her cold demeanor and repeated insults.

I believe that when the entire story is finally written, Jaime will succumb to his conscience (a conscience that has been telling him that his family completely corrupt and he has greater potential to realize) and emerge as a hero.
quote:
Originally posted by gigabit:
quote:
Originally posted by Whoopdido:
Even though Jaime has had a rough go of it lately and he's probably gotten "better", he's still not a good person and last Sunday's show just proved that.

As terrible as his actions were, I believe that they were done out of anger toward Cersei, as if trying punish her for her cold demeanor and repeated insults.

I believe that when the entire story is finally written, Jaime will succumb to his conscience (a conscience that has been telling him that his family completely corrupt and he has greater potential to realize) and emerge as a hero.


I can see that. The woman "knight" (forget her name) that brought him home seems to have pushed him into a different direction. And, then being spurned by his sister for taking too long to come home easily could have solidified this shift in this mindset
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
quote:
Originally posted by gigabit:
quote:
Originally posted by Whoopdido:
Even though Jaime has had a rough go of it lately and he's probably gotten "better", he's still not a good person and last Sunday's show just proved that.

As terrible as his actions were, I believe that they were done out of anger toward Cersei, as if trying punish her for her cold demeanor and repeated insults.

I believe that when the entire story is finally written, Jaime will succumb to his conscience (a conscience that has been telling him that his family completely corrupt and he has greater potential to realize) and emerge as a hero.


I can see that. The woman "knight" (forget her name) that brought him home seems to have pushed him into a different direction. And, then being spurned by his sister for taking too long to come home easily could have solidified this shift in this mindset

Yes, I believe that Brienne's morality had a strong impact on him.

I believe that he has realized that he doesn't want to end up a miserable, inebriated, self-loathing, power-hungry wretch like his sister, or the greedy, heartless, manipulative person that is his father.

When all is said and done, I believe that he will cause people to respect, not fear and mistrust, the name Lannister.
quote:
Originally posted by gigabit:
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
quote:
Originally posted by gigabit:
quote:
Originally posted by Whoopdido:
Even though Jaime has had a rough go of it lately and he's probably gotten "better", he's still not a good person and last Sunday's show just proved that.

As terrible as his actions were, I believe that they were done out of anger toward Cersei, as if trying punish her for her cold demeanor and repeated insults.

I believe that when the entire story is finally written, Jaime will succumb to his conscience (a conscience that has been telling him that his family completely corrupt and he has greater potential to realize) and emerge as a hero.


I can see that. The woman "knight" (forget her name) that brought him home seems to have pushed him into a different direction. And, then being spurned by his sister for taking too long to come home easily could have solidified this shift in this mindset

Yes, I believe that Brienne's morality had a strong impact on him.

I believe that he has realized that he doesn't want to end up a miserable, inebriated, self-loathing, power-hungry wretch like his sister, or the greedy, heartless, manipulative person that is his father.

When all is said and done, I believe that he will cause people to respect, not fear and mistrust, the name Lannister.


Or, since he's a main character that fans do seem to like, (even if he's extremely flawed) Martin will just end up killing him off. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
He was great. After a couple of so-so episodes, last night got things cooking again.

PH

Agreed. I really don't care for the White Walker / Wall / Bran / Jon Snow plotlines... much more interested in the "game of thrones".

Several episodes ago I called that Jamie was going to fight on Tyrion's behalf in combat to prove his innocence. Certainly looks that is what is shaping up! (Again, many of us, myself included, have not read the books, so no idea.) So disappointed in Shea, though. What a bitch.
quote:
Originally posted by winetarelli: I really don't care for the White Walker / Wall / Bran / Jon Snow plotlines... much more interested in the "game of thrones".

Why do you assume that what's going on up there isn't a part of the game of thrones? I figure pretty much that everything that's going on in Westeros is pretty much related to the fight for the Iron Throne.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by winetarelli: I really don't care for the White Walker / Wall / Bran / Jon Snow plotlines... much more interested in the "game of thrones".

Why do you assume that what's going on up there isn't a part of the game of thrones? I figure pretty much that everything that's going on in Westeros is pretty much related to the fight for the Iron Throne.

I'm not talking assumptions... I'm talking storylines. So far... there is no correlation. I'm assuming it is relevant, too. But so far it is taking place completely independent of all of the other action and also has a different feel and scope.
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by Whoopdido:
I thought that last night's episode was the best episode of the entire series. Really well done all around.


True if you eliminated the Danaerys/Mereen and Ramsay Snow scenes -

Dinklage was masterful.

As for story lines and importance, mum is the word


I've seen a lot of people complaining about the Theon scenes. They were the worst scenes of the night, but I still didn't think they were all that bad.

I thought the Dany scenes were great. The dragon reveal was awesome and I like that she's finally starting to get put in her place a bit. We forget that she's still basically a kid who has no idea what she's doing. Crucifying the masters was a REALLY dumb move as far as politics goes and she's getting called out for it. And she's just now getting a small idea of what it's like to be a leader. For the whole series she's just been marching around with this idea in her head that she's destined to rule the world. Now, she's getting a glimpse of what it's really like...listening to 200 "subjects" bitch to her.

I always like the Khaleesi scenes, but was getting a little bored with her since she was doing the same stuff over and over, so it was nice to get a little something different. Obviously, the stuff in King's Landing was killer and best case would have been to get an entire episode just devoted to that, but the other 3 storylines all moved forward and were interesting enough.
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
Different strokes - I tire of Dany's story line in the books and I tire of her story line in the show but perhaps they will do better with Mereen


Agreed. I tire of her a little too, but I think I'm just waiting for the (hopefully) eventual payoff. And I just liked last night's because it was something different for her. I think it's going to be quite some time still (I'm not a book reader, so I really have no clue) but I can't wait for her to roll into King's Landing with an army and 3 huge ass dragons. Assuming that even happens at all...I think it does, but who knows, it probably won't be until what, season 6 probably.

I know a fair amount of time passes in the books, so I just hope it's enough time that when she eventually gets to King's Landing those dragons are frickin huge. If Bran's vision was any indication, it seems like that'll be the case.
quote:
Originally posted by Whoopdido:
I thought that last night's episode was the best episode of the entire series. Really well done all around.

By the way, if you've seen any of the "season 4 previews" you get a glimpse of who fights for Tyrion and against who.

I never watch "Next time on..." or anything else that shows parts of future shows.
quote:
Originally posted by winetarelli:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by winetarelli: I really don't care for the White Walker / Wall / Bran / Jon Snow plotlines... much more interested in the "game of thrones".

Why do you assume that what's going on up there isn't a part of the game of thrones? I figure pretty much that everything that's going on in Westeros is pretty much related to the fight for the Iron Throne.

I'm not talking assumptions... I'm talking storylines. So far... there is no correlation. I'm assuming it is relevant, too. But so far it is taking place completely independent of all of the other action and also has a different feel and scope.

I've always given even money that Jon Snow will wind up on the Iron Throne.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
I saw GRRM at my favorite breakfast spot here in Santa Fe.

He is truly one strange looking person. Smile

Our biggest fear is he'll drop dead before he finishes the book series.


He did not look too healthy.

He bought and restored the Jean Cocteau Cinema and Coffee House here in Santa Fe. A great indie movie house!
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
I saw GRRM at my favorite breakfast spot here in Santa Fe.

He is truly one strange looking person. Smile

Our biggest fear is he'll drop dead before he finishes the book series.


He did not look too healthy.

He bought and restored the Jean Cocteau Cinema and Coffee House here in Santa Fe. A great indie movie house!

I'm hip to that and of course love its name.
quote:
Originally posted by gigabit:
I thought Pedro Pascal stole the show, last episode.

He was great. Peter Dinklage, to me, was the star.

Speaking of Pedro Pascal, though, I'm still confused as to why his lover is being played by Indira Varma, who is a reasonably accomplished actress. She has had nothing to do all season and I'm wondering if her character gets expanded later or what. I haven't read the books, so I don't know. (And don't tell me, I'm just contemplating.)
quote:
Originally posted by winetarelli: I'm still confused as to why his lover is being played by Indira Varma, who is a reasonably accomplished actress. She has had nothing to do all season and I'm wondering if her character gets expanded later or what. I haven't read the books, so I don't know. (And don't tell me, I'm just contemplating.)

Paycheck. Exposure. Her resume shows many mini-series with her doing on average 6 episodes.
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by Parcival:
What happened to this past Sunday -- no show? Did they skip a week or did I completely miss this?


They always skip memorial day weekend I believe


Good to know. Like PH, I thought that somehow I was just missing this in my channel surfing. Looking forward to see what happens to Tyrion
Only people I've seen complaining about last night's episode were hardcore book readers. I tell them it's an ADAPTATION, not a literal translation.

It's gonna be a long wait until April 2015, especially when there are so many interesting plot lines that are starting to intersect.

*** I haven't read any of the books. ***
quote:
Originally posted by winetarelli:
Happy Father's Day!

The end was a little confusing... how Tyrion wound up there when I though he was on his way to meet Varys... and did Varys know that was going to happen? He certainly figured out some shit went down at the end.

I didn't get why Arya didn't kill the Hound... as his friend.


It'a been a while since I read the books, but IIRC Varys was basically in on helping Tyrion escape and kill his father. They really condensed a lot of what was in the books to wrap up a bunch of story lines in this episode, but as fusion storm says - it's adaptation. It was close enough to the books to be recognizable. As for Arya and the Hound, maybe that was the point, that even though they had shared friendly moments but were not friends. My question would be why she didn't kill him, given that he was on her list - can't remember how the book handled that one.

From here on, I found the story deteriorating in terms of quality in the books. Hopefully the next season(s) improve it with the 'adaptations'. By the last book, I found it not very interesting at all. The show however has kept the pace moving well so far. One adaptation was that we were spared the long tedious descent into the mountain below the tree for the young Stark boy.
quote:
Originally posted by VinCentric:
quote:
Originally posted by winetarelli:
Happy Father's Day!

The end was a little confusing... how Tyrion wound up there when I though he was on his way to meet Varys... and did Varys know that was going to happen? He certainly figured out some shit went down at the end.

I didn't get why Arya didn't kill the Hound... as his friend.


It'a been a while since I read the books, but IIRC Varys was basically in on helping Tyrion escape and kill his father. They really condensed a lot of what was in the books to wrap up a bunch of story lines in this episode, but as fusion storm says - it's adaptation. It was close enough to the books to be recognizable. As for Arya and the Hound, maybe that was the point, that even though they had shared friendly moments but were not friends. My question would be why she didn't kill him, given that he was on her list - can't remember how the book handled that one.

From here on, I found the story deteriorating in terms of quality in the books. Hopefully the next season(s) improve it with the 'adaptations'. By the last book, I found it not very interesting at all. The show however has kept the pace moving well so far. One adaptation was that we were spared the long tedious descent into the mountain below the tree for the young Stark boy.

I get why Arya didn't accede to the Hound's demand/request/plea. She knew that his "friendship" was not exactly genuine, and that with the ransom from her aunt off the table, she could be jettisoned by him quite quickly. Plus, she was aware that he had an infection from being bitten previously, and with his multiple wounds incurred in what looked to be a pretty remote and rugged area, the likelihood that he would suffer until his demise was what she preferred over a quick "prick" from her Needle.

There's also the "symmetry" aspect of the brothers Clegane both in grave condition with an unclear outlook of their continued existence going into next season.

As for Varys, he's always been pretty intuitive. Tangibly, he's presented with a Tyrion who's scratched up, bloodied and probably sweating/shaking from the adrenaline of killing two people he was so close with. Intangibly, Varys probably had been pacing for some time expecting Tyrion to show up a bit quicker than when he finally knocked twice. Varys had to have known something had happened from when Jaime had said Tyrion would show to when Tyrion did actually show up.
The changes they made to the Tyrion scenes at the end were significant and messed up the story. Not mentioning Tysha (his first wife) and the fact she was not really a whore etc., changed the context significantly. Was still good but would have made much more sense with at least some mention of it even if they did not want to bring the Jaime side of it. That is what led him to feel completely isolated, the killing of Shae, and the provocation from Tywin etc. This way he leaves on good terms with Jaime and does not have the total isolation so makes less sense.

The Weirwood man was disappointing as he should only have one eye and a large blood red mark on his face (which is a major clue as to who he originally is) and the tree is supposed to be literally growing through him.

Finally, no Coldhands and no LS?
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
The changes they made to the Tyrion scenes at the end were significant and messed up the story. Not mentioning Tysha (his first wife) and the fact she was not really a whore etc., changed the context significantly. Was still good but would have made much more sense with at least some mention of it even if they did not want to bring the Jaime side of it. That is what led him to feel completely isolated, the killing of Shae, and the provocation from Tywin etc. This way he leaves on good terms with Jaime and does not have the total isolation so makes less sense.

The Weirwood man was disappointing as he should only have one eye and a large blood red mark on his face (which is a major clue as to who he originally is) and the tree is supposed to be literally growing through him.

Finally, no Coldhands and no LS?

This is all wrong. "The story" is the TV show Game of Thrones. It is based on a series of books called A Song of Fire and Ice. While it certainly needs to remain faithful to the source material is does not need to slavishly follow it. I actually think it is often superior to the books. It is so excellent a series I'm expecting the producers to fix much of what makes books four and five such a slog. (I believe they will take those two books and but them in a more chronological order for two seasons.)

To be specific: It's pretty clear why Tyrio killed Shae and his father. As to Weirwood it's his prophecy that is key (no spoiler here, it's pretty obvious it important) and as to the tree growing through him, to quote Hillary Clinton, "What difference does it make?"

I've always said the most insignificant film review is, "It wasn't as good as the book." Separate art forms.
quote:
Originally posted by fusionstorm:
I get why Arya didn't accede to the Hound's demand/request/plea. She knew that his "friendship" was not exactly genuine, and that with the ransom from her aunt off the table, she could be jettisoned by him quite quickly. Plus, she was aware that he had an infection from being bitten previously, and with his multiple wounds incurred in what looked to be a pretty remote and rugged area, the likelihood that he would suffer until his demise was what she preferred over a quick "prick" from her Needle.

There's also the "symmetry" aspect of the brothers Clegane both in grave condition with an unclear outlook of their continued existence going into next season.

The point is each changed the other. She's become hardened while he softened. I don't think he would have abandoned her and took him at his word that he was her protector. She however learned how to survive in this harsh world, (and Westeros is nothing is not harsh) especially as a young girl.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
The changes they made to the Tyrion scenes at the end were significant and messed up the story. Not mentioning Tysha (his first wife) and the fact she was not really a whore etc., changed the context significantly. Was still good but would have made much more sense with at least some mention of it even if they did not want to bring the Jaime side of it. That is what led him to feel completely isolated, the killing of Shae, and the provocation from Tywin etc. This way he leaves on good terms with Jaime and does not have the total isolation so makes less sense.

The Weirwood man was disappointing as he should only have one eye and a large blood red mark on his face (which is a major clue as to who he originally is) and the tree is supposed to be literally growing through him.

Finally, no Coldhands and no LS?

This is all wrong. "The story" is the TV show Game of Thrones. It is based on a series of books called A Song of Fire and Ice. While it certainly needs to remain faithful to the source material is does not need to slavishly follow it. I actually think it is often superior to the books. It is so excellent a series I'm expecting the producers to fix much of what makes books four and five such a slog. (I believe they will take those two books and but them in a more chronological order for two seasons.)

To be specific: It's pretty clear why Tyrio killed Shae and his father. As to Weirwood it's his prophecy that is key (no spoiler here, it's pretty obvious it important) and as to the tree growing through him, to quote Hillary Clinton, "What difference does it make?"

I've always said the most insignificant film review is, "It wasn't as good as the book." Separate art forms.


I disagree with you. If you think I am "all wrong", fine. You have your opinion, I have mine. I agree it is the TV show which should be judged on its own merits. However, this narrative change (both aspects of it) significantly changed the reason for what he did in a way that does not make as much sense. Oh, my dad is a jerk and my whore humiliated me. Fine, he loved her it was bad, Tywin hated him ... The trial was outstanding. However, the back story is what explained all of this and why Tyrion cracks and they referenced it in Season 1 at length so why not bring it out. I also think that this particular change (one of the few I have quibbled with) detracts from the point of what happens with Tyrion. Yes, you understand why he did it, I have no problem following the narrative, however, the story oversimplified the action -

As to the Weirwood - perhaps you don't know what historical figure the character is, maybe you do, but his appearance is important unless they are eliminating who he actually is - in which case you are right it does not matter

I never compared the show to the books qualitatively.
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
The changes they made to the Tyrion scenes at the end were significant and messed up the story. Not mentioning Tysha (his first wife) and the fact she was not really a whore etc., changed the context significantly. Was still good but would have made much more sense with at least some mention of it even if they did not want to bring the Jaime side of it. That is what led him to feel completely isolated, the killing of Shae, and the provocation from Tywin etc. This way he leaves on good terms with Jaime and does not have the total isolation so makes less sense.

The Weirwood man was disappointing as he should only have one eye and a large blood red mark on his face (which is a major clue as to who he originally is) and the tree is supposed to be literally growing through him.

Finally, no Coldhands and no LS?

This is all wrong. "The story" is the TV show Game of Thrones. It is based on a series of books called A Song of Fire and Ice. While it certainly needs to remain faithful to the source material is does not need to slavishly follow it. I actually think it is often superior to the books. It is so excellent a series I'm expecting the producers to fix much of what makes books four and five such a slog. (I believe they will take those two books and but them in a more chronological order for two seasons.)

To be specific: It's pretty clear why Tyrio killed Shae and his father. As to Weirwood it's his prophecy that is key (no spoiler here, it's pretty obvious it important) and as to the tree growing through him, to quote Hillary Clinton, "What difference does it make?"

I've always said the most insignificant film review is, "It wasn't as good as the book." Separate art forms.


I disagree with you. If you think I am "all wrong", fine. You have your opinion, I have mine. I agree it is the TV show which should be judged on its own merits. However, this narrative change (both aspects of it) significantly changed the reason for what he did in a way that does not make as much sense. Oh, my dad is a jerk and my whore humiliated me.

I don't think any non-book reader doesn't know he killed Shae because she betrayed him and that he killed his father because, as Tyrion said, his father never accepted him as his son and pretty much wanted him dead.
quote:
I never compared the show to the books qualitatively.

Eek Confused
I meant a general comparison, of simply saying oh yeah, the books are just better. I think it is fair to notice changes and comment on them though - hard to avoid if you have read the books. I think Benioff and Weiss have done an amazing job overall and the cast has largely been incredible. Enough book talk, I really enjoyed Season 4. Very curious for next season.
I'm happy not to have read the books... though it does make me wonder...

Anyway, iirc, they are condensing books 4 and 5 into one single season, and they have always suggested the tv series might deviate a little from where the books go.

As long as Tyrion doesn't go anti-Jamie (ie., go from a lovable character to an evil one) I'll be ok.

Also- I loved season 1; and I really liked seasons 2 and 3. But this past season was just out-control-good. Easily the best so far, imo.
quote:
Originally posted by winetarelli:
I'm happy not to have read the books... though it does make me wonder...

Anyway, iirc, they are condensing books 4 and 5 into one single season, and they have always suggested the tv series might deviate a little from where the books go.

As long as Tyrion doesn't go anti-Jamie (ie., go from a lovable character to an evil one) I'll be ok.

Also- I loved season 1; and I really liked seasons 2 and 3. But this past season was just out-control-good. Easily the best so far, imo.


The biggest difference from book to show in my view is the show simply can't replicate the POV narrative of the book. Each chapter is told from the perspective of a POV character so the story is incomplete and skewed creating an even further lack of confidence in the story for the reader and additional insight into the thoughts/emotions of the POV character. It is one of the main reasons that I think to many viewers the Jon character does not resonate as well on the show as on the page.

Faulkner's As I Lay Dying is the first book (that I can remember) that I read that does something similar.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorgerunfast:
Finally caught up... Is Arya going to Bravos? What's in Bravos?

I haven't read the books and haven't read of any spoilers about this. But a likely clue was in the "Previously on Game of Thrones" segment before the start of the show. Jaqen H'ghar gives Arya the iron coin while telling her "if the day comes when you must find me again, just give that coin to any man from Braavos and say these words.....valar morghulis" (translates to "all men must die" in High Valyrian). She does this to the Braavosi ship captain, who responds "valar dohaeris" ("all men must serve") and grants her safe passage on his ship.

So yes, it is highly likely she's headed to Braavos and will meet up with the Faceless Men (the assassins group that Jaqen is part of).

If you're interested in trying to suss out any further possibilities, here are all scenes on the show to date involving Jaqen:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y31RoHC15pM
quote:
Originally posted by Jorgerunfast:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by Jorgerunfast:
Finally caught up... Is Arya going to Bravos?

Yes.

What's in Bravos?

You'll have to wait until next year.

What's the story with The Mountain? Is he going to come back some super-beast?

You'll have to wait until next year.


I bet you're a lot of fun at parties.


Razz

Just ask San Diego group I offlined with last month when I told them that all of the music they liked sucked. They were highly amused.

But really, I don't like giving spoilers.
quote:
Originally posted by eyesintime:
Just started watching season 3 on DVD. I've enjoyed the first two episodes, but doesn't seem quite as good so far as the first two seasons. Just wondering overall how people felt season 3 stacked up against 1 and 2?


My overall impression of the seasons so far goes like this:

Season 1: #2
Season 2: #3
Season 3: #4
Season 4: #1

I liked season 3, and it picks up a little nearer the end, but it is easily my least favorite of the seasons -- it seems like even the action in it is really just exposition serving as a bridge to the supreme awesomeness that is season 4. Still, I thought it was decent... and if you'll notice where season 4 ranks (and it is imperative, obviously, that you watch all of season 3 before starting season 4) it is definitely worth continuing. Definitely.
quote:
Originally posted by winetarelli:
quote:
Originally posted by eyesintime:
Just started watching season 3 on DVD. I've enjoyed the first two episodes, but doesn't seem quite as good so far as the first two seasons. Just wondering overall how people felt season 3 stacked up against 1 and 2?


My overall impression of the seasons so far goes like this:

Season 1: #2
Season 2: #3
Season 3: #4
Season 4: #1

I liked season 3, and it picks up a little nearer the end, but it is easily my least favorite of the seasons -- it seems like even the action in it is really just exposition serving as a bridge to the supreme awesomeness that is season 4. Still, I thought it was decent... and if you'll notice where season 4 ranks (and it is imperative, obviously, that you watch all of season 3 before starting season 4) it is definitely worth continuing. Definitely.


Thanks for your thoughts Winetarelli. I was definitely planning on finishing the season and actually watched two more episodes late last night. Your assessment of season 3 really put into words what I was feeling about the season so far -- it is just kind of moving along. One thing I have noticed about season 3 that I didn't notice in previous seasons (though it's been awhile since I watched those) is some almost tongue-in-cheek scenes that, at least right now, don't really have anything to do with the plot and seem a little "beneath" the quality of the series. Those plus the "just-moving-along" aspect of the season so far had me wondering if the quality was dropping. Good to hear season 4 is so good.
Trailer certainly did nothing to tamp down any excitement about the new season starting next month. I read a frame by frame analysis of the trailer, and there were a couple of departures from the books noted (I haven't read the books). The new characters that are being introduced to the series will likely be very fascinating.
The slowly building up of nuclear level weapons as the dragons are growing at a ferocious rate under daenerys in the city of meeren.

meanwhile in the free cities, a small group ventures out and tries to strike a seperate deal with daenerys much against prince aegon targaryens authority.

just kidding... thought i'd interject with our foolish politics state side =)
quote:
Originally posted by spo:
Great episodes so far. They feel like they are over way too quickly.

+1

This is the first season where I'm watching each week rather than binging through a season at once. Not sure which I enjoy more but right now I may say binging because to your point, after 50 minutes I want more than watching credits.
quote:
Originally posted by Vino Bevo:
quote:
Originally posted by spo:
Great episodes so far. They feel like they are over way too quickly.

+1

This is the first season where I'm watching each week rather than binging through a season at once. Not sure which I enjoy more but right now I may say binging because to your point, after 50 minutes I want more than watching credits.


Couldn't agree more. I heard the show is using abit of chapters from Book 3,4,5. So book readers will have the feeling its jumping all over the place. Speaking of the book (Don't worry. No Spoilers here), George RR Martin's book editor Jane Johnson was quite ticked off about some divergence from the book. Mainly how Loras Tyrell was marginalized into a very minor character, and a "certain" recent death on Season 5 that was not warranted.

And my beef is that the producers cutted out a lot of Stannis's witty one liners. For a Lobster-like character who never smiles, the guy actually got a great sense of humor IMO.

In fairness tho, I did love Ser Bronn's expanded role in the show.
Q: Who's that ?
A: Jamie Fooking Lannister.
They are deviating from the books a lot and it cannot be helped. Some of the changes have been good, others have not made much sense but whatever - I try to judge the show on its own as much as possible.

So far I am enjoying the season. Personally, I would always prefer more Arya and less Dany - true also in the books for me. On re-reads, I often skip Dany chapters.

Regardless, this season has been pretty enjoyable so far with the exception of the Sons of Harpy episode which blew chunks and made absolutely no sense.
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
They are deviating from the books a lot and it cannot be helped. Some of the changes have been good, others have not made much sense but whatever - I try to judge the show on its own as much as possible.

So far I am enjoying the season. Personally, I would always prefer more Arya and less Dany - true also in the books for me. On re-reads, I often skip Dany chapters.

Regardless, this season has been pretty enjoyable so far with the exception of the Sons of Harpy episode which blew chunks and made absolutely no sense.


Having not read the books, I cannot comment on what will happen... but since they are deviating anyway...


I think they are setting things up for Tyrion to become Dany's primary advisor.

There hasn't been nearly as much Dany sex/nudity which makes her storyline less interesting, but I still like it.

Agreed, I love Arya and hope she continues to play a major role and they don't switch actors if she becomes "a girl".

I like the season so far and/but Stannis is a much more likable character this season so far which I find interesting. They managed to turn Jamie into a sympathetic character (and sortof The Hound, too) so I suppose anything is possible.

I'm glad Bran isn't in this season. I have no use for him nor his storyline.

I've loved the buddy duo routine of Bronn and Jamie, though.

As soon as I saw Indira Varma last season I knew she had to have more than a few lines. I'm interested to see where that storyline goes -- but I have my reservations.

Overall, not as amazing as season 4 so far, but still very strong -- and plus no Bran!

Also, since I know that this season may pass some aspects of where the books are -- and I haven't read the books, and I know that nothing has been revealed in the books anyway -- by the end of this season I'm betting we see Jon Snow not burned by fire.
Last edited by winetarelli
quote:
Originally posted by gigabit:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
Personally, I would always prefer more Arya and less Dany - true also in the books for me. On re-reads, I often skip Dany chapters.

Both she (Daenerys) and Cersei have become very tedious characters.


Show or book? They are trying to make show Cersei much more sympathetic than the books - and more rational and less insane and paranoid
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by gigabit:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
Personally, I would always prefer more Arya and less Dany - true also in the books for me. On re-reads, I often skip Dany chapters.

Both she (Daenerys) and Cersei have become very tedious characters.


Show or book? They are trying to make show Cersei much more sympathetic than the books - and more rational and less insane and paranoid

Wait. They are trying to make show Cersei more sympathetic?! Wow. TV Cersei is about as unsympathetic a character as I've seen on TV (short of Joffrey and the Boltons). I'd hate to see book Cersei.
quote:
Originally posted by winetarelli:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by gigabit:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
Personally, I would always prefer more Arya and less Dany - true also in the books for me. On re-reads, I often skip Dany chapters.

Both she (Daenerys) and Cersei have become very tedious characters.


Show or book? They are trying to make show Cersei much more sympathetic than the books - and more rational and less insane and paranoid

Wait. They are trying to make show Cersei more sympathetic?! Wow. TV Cersei is about as unsympathetic a character as I've seen on TV (short of Joffrey and the Boltons). I'd hate to see book Cersei.


Yup. At least 100 times worse in the books, if not more. Lena Headley's performance is probably why they went this route. By this point in the books, she has basically gone bat sh++ crazy
The great thing is they're going away from the books and working directly toward the ending they've discussed with George Martin. In doing so they are exposing many of the time-wasters that he created in books 4 & 5. They are either going to combine both of them into one season or combine both of them over a season and a half. The show is quickly becoming superior to the books--most of this due to Martin's editor not being able to stand up to him.
I enjoy the TV series and frankly like the fact they aren't getting into the murk of Books 4 and 5 as much.

I agree that the Dany chapters are really dull. I just don't care what is going on in Mereen. It's like Martin is just killing time to let the dragons grow up so Dany can take them across the sea when she invades Westeros (FYI for those who haven't read books - that's not a spoiler, that's just my supposition).
quote:
Originally posted by Rothko:
What do you think about the selection of Lena Headley as Cersei?

She isn't what I pictured Cersei to look like, and I personally think she's better looking as a brunette, but I've enjoyed her acting and I think she's really defined the role.

After her work on the cut short, Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, I was glad to see her again. And she has played the role perfectly.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
If it's no to the second, it's definitely a yes to the first. Can't have it both ways.


Wrong - discussing personality does not spoil events - if you consider that a spoiler than no reference to the books would ever not constitute a spoiler.

Rothko - I think she has been great - although her performance is more steel and less fire than the original - or is that too much of a spoiler for you too The Old Man.
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
The great thing is they're going away from the books and working directly toward the ending they've discussed with George Martin. In doing so they are exposing many of the time-wasters that he created in books 4 & 5. They are either going to combine both of them into one season or combine both of them over a season and a half. The show is quickly becoming superior to the books--most of this due to Martin's editor not being able to stand up to him.


i whole heartedly agree

i dont know how i snoozed through books 4 and 5
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
The great thing is they're going away from the books and working directly toward the ending they've discussed with George Martin. In doing so they are exposing many of the time-wasters that he created in books 4 & 5. They are either going to combine both of them into one season or combine both of them over a season and a half. The show is quickly becoming superior to the books--most of this due to Martin's editor not being able to stand up to him.


i whole heartedly agree

i dont know how i snoozed through books 4 and 5


+1. My interest took an increasing dive in books 4 and 5.

Every once in a while the show/movie is better than the book. 'A good year' is another imo. Very different genre, but the movie was much better than the book imo.
Absolutely agree. Once they had Sansa going to Winterfell with the Boltons, this was the only logical outcome and it was totally predicable.

The uproar seems to be 2 fronts:

1. The showrunners have overused and been tone dead to rape (ie. the Jaime/Cersei debacle from last season) and there was no real point to it in this instance; and

2. Sansa's character arc was growing from being less of a victim to a more active participant and doing this and then focusing on Theon rather than Sansa made no sense and was detrimental to the character growth.

I don't get 1 and on 2 while I don't agree as I think those fans vastly overestimate Sansa - I do at least see their point
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
2. Sansa's character arc was growing from being less of a victim to a more active participant and doing this and then focusing on Theon rather than Sansa made no sense and was detrimental to the character growth.


As to point 2 certainly the route to her strength is naturally not a straight line. I don't think it's really been a picnic for any of the strong characters. Unfortunately, in Westeros, rape is common, and for Ramsey, who enjoys subjugation and causing suffering, a natural method.

As for the actress Sophie Tucker, "When I read that scene, I kinda loved it. I love the way Ramsay had Theon watching."
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
Decidedly mixed episode in my opinion.

We don't agree. I'm shocked.


I don't see how that is possible objectively:

Good

A. Kings Landing scenes were awesome -

B. Aemon scene was fabulous

C. Stannis scene good

D. Excellent move getting Tyrion to Dany - although the fighting scene and much of the interaction with the slavers made no sense -

E. Winterfell - mostly good although the Brienne shot was sort of pointless -


Bad:

A. Dorne scenes - horrible again

B. Jon Snow/Tormund/Aliser - whatever - fine but the whole story does not make much sense.

C. Gilly/Sam/Ghost - why exactly was Ghost there? Not ranging with Jon? Where has Ghost been all season? Oh, more potential rape - fantastic followed by post-attempted rape, consensual sex. Super.

As for the Mereneese problem in the Books - the show has given up any obligation to make any coherent sense regarding distance and the time it takes to travel so simplifying some of the issues is no problem - so Jamie and Bronn can stroll into Water Garden, Jorah and Tyrion can magically get to Mereeen etc.

Still it was a good episode overall but with some major weaknesses. Pretty universal reaction from what I have seen.
Two characters that were quickly becoming rather boring/predictable, Cersei and Daenerys, FINALLY, have had their roles altered by circumstance or interaction with other characters!

The scenes between Daenerys and Tyrion were sensational! Peter Dinklage continues to shine, very brightly, in his role.

I had a strong feeling that, during last night's episode, Theon would tell Sansa that her brothers were alive. I wonder if that will allow for an update on Rickon's whereabouts and a continuation to Bran's storyline (before this season concludes).

The battle at the end of last night's episode was absolutely incredible! It must have nearly exhausted HBO's CGI budget for this season, but it was well worth it. (Yep, Valarian steel counters the White Walkers. Hmmm, I wonder which other characters in the Seven Kingdoms might be carrying such a sword?)

I can't wait for the final two weeks!
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
quote:
Originally posted by gigabit:

I had a strong feeling that, during last night's episode, Theon would tell Sansa that her brothers were alive. I wonder if that will allow for an update on Rickon's whereabouts and a continuation to Bran's storyline (before this season concludes).



HBO has said they are not in this season at all.

I suppose that makes sense, as neither of them has appeared yet, why add them to the myriad other storylines that still need progression?
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
Still did not make much sense - I thought they also suggested in the show that he was part of if not the leader - I could be wrong


Well, he wasn't exactly their leader, but he was the head of one of the great houses of Mereen. So kinda like a Kardashian.

They probably killed him for being a collaborator and insider with Daenarys instead of being on their side.
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by Danyull:
Uggghhh...

I hate how Stannis went from a hard but principled leader into an anus.


To set this up, somehow the best military commander in Westeros had his entire supply line destroyed by a psycho with 20 men - perfectly logical. Eek


Or some of the most elite soldiers in Essos are easily killed by a mob of rich people with short swords. And the beloved common people that outnumber them 10:1 don't want to get involved.
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by Danyull:
Uggghhh...

I hate how Stannis went from a hard but principled leader into an anus.


To set this up, somehow the best military commander in Westeros had his entire supply line destroyed by a psycho with 20 men - perfectly logical. Eek


It's not. But the weather was the perfect storm (no pun intended) for defenses to be less than ideal, especially when the majority of Stannis' army is made up of sellswords who aren't used to life in cold climates.

What was illogical to me was how the camp could go up in flames so quickly when there's icy conditions everywhere. The amount of accelerant needed to accomplish that would require way more than 20 men to transport and deploy.
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
If what I think is going to happen actually happens, Im done with the show.


If it is something that actually happened in the 5th book, then I imagine its such a major thing, they at least have to make it happen....or at least make it seem like it will happen. If we are thinking of same thing, I'd say the last episode set it up.
quote:
Originally posted by Pinotlvr:
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
If what I think is going to happen actually happens, Im done with the show.


If it is something that actually happened in the 5th book, then I imagine its such a major thing, they at least have to make it happen....or at least make it seem like it will happen. If we are thinking of same thing, I'd say the last episode set it up.


The stare and walk away last episode combined with Sam's talk with the little f%&ker has me convinced.

Im tired of them killing the only characters I like. If they kill him, there is only one character left(Tyrion) I like. Im not watching an hour of TV for just for his 5 minutes of screen time each week.

JC, if they kill him and bring him back to life thats just ridiculous.
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
quote:
Originally posted by Pinotlvr:
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
If what I think is going to happen actually happens, Im done with the show.


If it is something that actually happened in the 5th book, then I imagine its such a major thing, they at least have to make it happen....or at least make it seem like it will happen. If we are thinking of same thing, I'd say the last episode set it up.


The stare and walk away last episode combined with Sam's talk with the little f%&ker has me convinced.

Im tired of them killing the only characters I like. If they kill him, there is only one character left(Tyrion) I like. Im not watching an hour of TV for just for his 5 minutes of screen time each week.

JC, if they kill him and bring him back to life thats just ridiculous.


Watch for Ghost - This is no spoilers so I am not saying anything else on it until after next week-
I'll give it a shot but Im so resigned to whats going to happen Im not looking forward to the finale at all