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Game of Thrones [The TV Show Only; Please No Spoilers Based Upon the Books]

S slipperypeteMember
quote:
Originally posted by winetarelli:
It is also possible that he is dead and that his blood is the "king's blood" needed for Melissandre to do her work.


hm.... That's a possibility I haven't considered before. It seem unlikely since there is no indication (on the TV show at least) he has king's blood or Melisandre's knowledge of it. In anycase, we'll have to see in 10 months.
S seaquamMember
quote:
Originally posted by Slippery Pete:
quote:
Originally posted by winetarelli:
It is also possible that he is dead and that his blood is the "king's blood" needed for Melissandre to do her work.


hm.... That's a possibility I haven't considered before. It seem unlikely since there is no indication (on the TV show at least) he has king's blood or Melisandre's knowledge of it. In anycase, we'll have to see in 10 months.



I hadn't considered that either. I usually think of Ned Stark as a Lord, so Jon has noble blood but not royal blood.

However, I do recall some references to 'the king in the North,' the area which House Stark ruled, so maybe Jon does actually have royal blood. Hmmm...
J jburman82Member
There are also rumors he's the son of Robert and Ned's sister or some Targarean and Ned's sister which would make his blood kings blood.

I'm coming around to he will get revived. It's just too big a story shift this late in the process to do. If he is dead how do they bring the white walkers back into the story until they overrun the wall and kill everyone? Does Sir Allister really take a leading role now. He's such a flat, one dimensional character I can't see him being a lead.
S spoMember
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
There are also rumors he's the son of Robert and Ned's sister or some Targarean and Ned's sister which would make his blood kings blood.

I'm coming around to he will get revived. It's just too big a story shift this late in the process to do. If he is dead how do they bring the white walkers back into the story until they overrun the wall and kill everyone? Does Sir Allister really take a leading role now. He's such a flat, one dimensional character I can't see him being a lead.


He has to be dead and gone.

The key to defeating the white walkers is the girl with the dragons. Not the Night's watch, they are little more than a bunch of f#@K ups. While people may think her story is going nowhere she will become relevant.
J jburman82Member
quote:
Originally posted by spo:
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
There are also rumors he's the son of Robert and Ned's sister or some Targarean and Ned's sister which would make his blood kings blood.

I'm coming around to he will get revived. It's just too big a story shift this late in the process to do. If he is dead how do they bring the white walkers back into the story until they overrun the wall and kill everyone? Does Sir Allister really take a leading role now. He's such a flat, one dimensional character I can't see him being a lead.


He has to be dead and gone.

The key to defeating the white walkers is the girl with the dragons. Not the Night's watch, they are little more than a bunch of f#@K ups. While people may think her story is going nowhere she will become relevant.


Dont really agree he has to be dead and gone. They have spent so much time buidling his character, more than any other on the show with the possible exception of Danny, I cant see them totally changing course in their story telling.

I agree dragons are probably the key but there are three of them who need riders. If Jon's lineage is Targarean then he could ride one of them making him pretty darn indespensible. The who story is called a song of Fire and Ice which pretty much sums up Jon's parents(Targarean/Stark).

If he is really dead Martin is dick who is only interested in fing with people.
S spoMember
Jburman82, the last 5 seasons of the show have had no problem killing off key character after key character so I don't or didn't see a reason for his death to be any different.The world still goes on and another person enters.

But... I have not read the books and you're comments are interesting. I had not even thought about or realized any of that.

I still think he is dead though... but I thought Stannis would kill the Boltons and Jon Snow would end up in a situation where he had to help Stanis.

I am looking forward to season 6.
J jburman82Member
quote:
Originally posted by spo:
Jburman82, the last 5 seasons of the show have had no problem killing off key character after key character so I don't or didn't see a reason for his death to be any different.The world still goes on and another person enters.

But... I have not read the books and you're comments are interesting. I had not even thought about or realized any of that.

I still think he is dead though... but I thought Stannis would kill the Boltons and Jon Snow would end up in a situation where he had to help Stanis.

I am looking forward to season 6.


I havent read the books either but I did go down the rabbit hole after the episode. I even listened to a few GOT podcasts. doh
J jcocktostenMember
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
quote:
Originally posted by spo:
Jburman82, the last 5 seasons of the show have had no problem killing off key character after key character so I don't or didn't see a reason for his death to be any different.The world still goes on and another person enters.

But... I have not read the books and you're comments are interesting. I had not even thought about or realized any of that.

I still think he is dead though... but I thought Stannis would kill the Boltons and Jon Snow would end up in a situation where he had to help Stanis.

I am looking forward to season 6.


I havent read the books either but I did go down the rabbit hole after the episode. I even listened to a few GOT podcasts. doh


There cannot be any spoilers anymore as the show has reached and/or passed the books in some spots now.

Obviously GRRM and the showrunners do not shy away from misdirection and killing characters thought to be important. Stop reading if you are not interested in fan theory, do not want to be told of any book details in case you want to read them and have some surprises and specualtion from the crumbs that have been laid out. As said, there are countless sites and threads where these issues have been discussed for the last 4 years since the last book came out.


The way the books are structured, there is Prologue that often involves minor or never before seen characters in a situation generally not part of the direct narrative that sets forth a scene that is intended to give information that is highly important later in the story. In A Dance With Dragons, the prologue involves Varamyr Sixskins - a skinchanger who we encountered earlier mounted on a snow bear who also controlled other animals. The scene is of his death (following the battle of the wall he is stabbed by a wildling child after he steals the kid's mother's coast and perhaps killed her - I don't recall precisely) - The Prologue is entirely about him warging into one of his wolves as he dies and provides flashbacks of the lessons he learned about skin-changing from his mentor who he ultimatyely kills and his back story. These prologues have purposes in the story and as Bran is getting instruction from Blooraven by the tree, the purpose of this is to give information to the readers on death and warging. In the books, Jon has often seen through Ghost's eyes; tasted what Ghost eas eating etc. just as Arya has seen through cats' eyes and seen what Nymeria and her pack are doing. Jon saying Ghost at the stabbing is for a reason. Jon's ancestry as a secret Targ is relevant

Now - no one knows the details and they may be screwing with us entirely. The movie and books are going to go different routes also I believe. I think there is no doubt in the Books that Jon is going to Warg into Ghost either to heal or bide his time until Mel brings him back in some fashion - In the show, I expect they will skip the Warging as the show seems to hate the wolves and the concept of skin changing and Mel will revive him directly somehow. Into what, I have no idea. So there me be a franken-body, he may be some kind of good wight or red walker instead of a white walker, there may be a new actor, he may be a form of Lady Stoneheart, or it may just be a different version of Jon like White Gandalf. In any event, no one yet knows exactly where the story is going but I am very confident that some form of Jon Snow will be involved going forward whatever that form is.
thelostversethelostverseMember
George R.R. Martin was at the Northwestern football game last Saturday to be honored as a notable alumnus. After the presentation on the field (during which he received a standing ovation), he walked past the home field stands. I was shocked at the reaction of those around me as he walked by. People were falling all over themselves trying to get his picture and screaming his name. There was a Penn State fan sitting in front of me who said he didn't care about the outcome of the game anymore as seeing Martin made his day. I can't remember ever seeing this kind of fan reaction for anyone other than professional athletes or musicians.
W wine+artMember
quote:
Originally posted by thelostverse:
George R.R. Martin was at the Northwestern football game last Saturday to be honored as a notable alumnus. After the presentation on the field (during which he received a standing ovation), he walked past the home field stands. I was shocked at the reaction of those around me as he walked by. People were falling all over themselves trying to get his picture and screaming his name. There was a Penn State fan sitting in front of me who said he didn't care about the outcome of the game anymore as seeing Martin made his day. I can't remember ever seeing this kind of fan reaction for anyone other than professional athletes or musicians.


Ha. He lives here in Santa Fe and I see him often. He always looks homeless while in Santa Fe.

Santa Fe is a very small community with a lot of celebrities living here but no one pays any attention overall. He bought and renovated the Jean Cocteau cinema which I go to often. He is there often but not too sure people truly know who he is sometimes.
The Old ManThe Old ManMember
quote:
Originally posted by wine+art:
Ha. He lives here in Santa Fe and I see him often. He always looks homeless while in Santa Fe.

Santa Fe is a very small community with a lot of celebrities living here but no one pays any attention overall. He bought and renovated the Jean Cocteau cinema which I go to often. He is there often but not too sure people truly know who he is sometimes.

Now tell us when you start reading the books. And oh yeah, please get me a full set of the series to date autographed. Thank you.
The Old ManThe Old ManMember
Martin confirms what we thought would happen; book 6 will not be out before the TV show resumes. (He blames, among other things, his running of W+A's favorite theater, the Jean Cocteau.)

This means that the show will be spoiling the books (and of course book readers will no longer have inside knowledge.) I personally consider this a good thing because I believe the Martin has lost his way. The show was smart enough to not only push, and reduce, books 4 and 5 together thereby cutting out tons of padding and stalling.
J jcocktostenMember
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
Martin confirms what we thought would happen; book 6 will not be out before the TV show resumes. (He blames, among other things, his running of W+A's favorite theater, the Jean Cocteau.)

This means that the show will be spoiling the books (and of course book readers will no longer have inside knowledge.) I personally consider this a good thing because I believe the Martin has lost his way. The show was smart enough to not only push, and reduce, books 4 and 5 together thereby cutting out tons of padding and stalling.


Yup, no surprise here
R RothkoMember
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
Excellent episode last night - no Dorne - amen.


Overall a good episode.

SPOILERS BELOW


Bye, bye, Balon. Good riddance.

Bye, bye, Roose. You deserved a slower, more agonizing death. I hope that Walder Frey doesn't die so quickly.

Hello, Jon Snow. We all knew it was coming, but it still was nice to see.
The Old ManThe Old ManMember
Well that was fucking great. Besides the kicking ending there were many great scenes. I think the only weak one was Jonathon Pryce's speech, as much as we love to hate him, went on a little too long.

I've meant to mention this seasons ago but I'd like to point out that the interior of the court at Meereen is heavy influenced by Frank Lloyd Wright's 1920's Los Angeles houses. Except for the one room with the pyramidal roof, there's particularly a lot of the Ennis Brown house in set design.
pinotlvrpinotlvrMember
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
i wonder if g martin is going to do one of those.. "and then bran wakes up and realizes it's all a dream"


I think we can safely say no -


Well, that's because the Series finale will end up with Ned Stark waking up from a nightmare, then convincing King Robert to plan a massacre of all the Lannisters in King's Landing and then launch an offensive against Casterly Rock to kill as many Lannisters as they can and bring their gold back to the crown.
The Old ManThe Old ManMember
Absolutely superb episode. GoT is one of the true treasures of new golden age of television. If it only had the scene between Sansa and Littlefinger it would have been one of the great shows of the series.

It is such an accomplishment for the two writers/producers I can't actually think of anything else that comes close except perhaps in film with The Lord of The Rings. One of my early fears was there would be no way they could keep such a large cast working for so many years and in so many different locations, and yet its been magnificent. Also their extending beyond Martin's work and creating new places and ideas really deserves all the credit they can get.
G g-manMember
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
time paradoxes has no place in fantasy worlds not containing merlin.

I don't look at this as time travel; he doesn't really travel in time, but can see and influence things in the past.


yea, but that still causes a time rift and potentially leading to a paradox
J jburman82Member
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
time paradoxes has no place in fantasy worlds not containing merlin.

I don't look at this as time travel; he doesn't really travel in time, but can see and influence things in the past.


yea, but that still causes a time rift and potentially leading to a paradox


Or because it already happened in the past was it predetermined to happen in the future. Did Bran really change anything? Or did this have to happen since it already happened when Hodor was a boy?
G g-manMember
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by g-man:
time paradoxes has no place in fantasy worlds not containing merlin.

I don't look at this as time travel; he doesn't really travel in time, but can see and influence things in the past.


yea, but that still causes a time rift and potentially leading to a paradox


Or because it already happened in the past was it predetermined to happen in the future. Did Bran really change anything? Or did this have to happen since it already happened when Hodor was a boy?


YES!!
The Old ManThe Old ManMember
From a poster on dvdtalk.com:
quote:
The girl was screaming into Bran's ear
He can hear it in the dream
He warged Hodor in the dream, connected to Hodor in the cave, into dragging him out of the cave
He began to lose control as they left Hodor at the door
The girl was screaming "Hold the door!"
Bran could hear it while still warging Hodor in the dream
It was the only thing they needed him to do
It was his last purpose
As Hodor died, his last thought was "Hold the door"
Which was connected, through warging, into his own self in the dream
As he died, his last thought was imprinted so hard into the dream of himself, that it took over entirely.
Hodor's last purpose went into his past and became his only purpose.
His only purpose from then on was to make it to that point and hold the door
The Old ManThe Old ManMember
I don't know if anyone's interested, but I'd like to mention two games based on AGoT. One of my hobbies is boardgaming. The new world of boardgaming is very different from the "roll and move" games, like Monopoly, from our childhood. They are often very thematic and there is a complexity of play. I am linking to the number one board game website--boardgamegeek.com--so if you wish you can see what the games look like.

The first one is A Game of Thrones: The Card Game (Second Edition). This card game features characters, places and events with card art based on the books. (Though sometimes the look does acknowledge the TV show. It can be played one on one or in a multiplayer format. There is a base set, but the way these games are played is by buying monthly chapter packs to build the best challenge deck you can. These "factions" game be one of the major houses, or even the Knight's Watch. There are also tournaments all over the world. This is not an easy game, I'd give it a complexity rating of 7. A one on one game can usually be played in under an hour.

And even harder game, perhaps a rating of 8, is A Game of Thrones: The Board Game (Second Edition). In this game each player is a faction who is trying to control territory in Westeros. It is best played with 6 and can run about 4 hours. To play you'd really need a full complement of players who are willing to put in that much time. Also it will take about half a dozen times before you really even start to understand the various strategies. However, it is an evocative game that relies on making alliances with other players and them backstabbing them at the right time (Very Game of Throneish.)

Often when an property like a TV show is turned into a game it's almost always a failure--and there are a number of not so good games based on the show--even a not so terrible version of Risk. However, the company that makes both of the games I mentioned, Fantasy Flight Games, has done an excellent job. They also make my favorite boardgame, Battlestar Galatica, which manages to bring out the paranoia of the show (Who's a Cylon, who's a human?) so that you actually feel it during the game.

Oh yeah, this is probably the best boardgame based on wine making, Viticulture.
J jcocktostenMember
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Man:
quote:
Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
I thought Sundays episode was the weakest of the season by a large amount.
I don't believe there's been a weak episode. Just one or two that aren't great--only very good.


It was still pretty good but still b least favorite of this season - which would still put it towards the top of last season which was the worst . . . my main quibbles are:

A. While I enjoyed the King's Landing action, how is it that Cersei, Jaime et al., had no idea what again where Tommen was? It makes no sense whatsoever - Jaime is LC of the Kingsguard yet all of his men have secretly shuttled Tommen to the HS and now have new armour with the 7 pointed star on it? Really?

B. I generally am bored with Dany (in books and show) and the final scene was simply a repeat of what we have seen time and again -

C. The Tarly, Sam and Gilly scenes were entertaining but went on for too long IMO

D. The Arya and Bran scenes were awesome.
winetarelliwinetarelliMember
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
I just read that season 7 will only be 7 episodes. I thought they were talking about stretching out to 8 seasons, not shortening the ones they had left????? Im guessing its because of huge CGI costs for the final few episodes but who knows.

Actually...

That 7 episode thing comes from an off-handed comment by one of the lesser directors. BUT, it is consistent with a previous rumor that they were going to to 8 seasons with essentially a season 7.1 and 7.2. Typically, GoT is a 10 episode season; the show creators have said there will be about 13 episodes after this season, so that is consistent with season 7 being only 7 episodes long. If this is the case, though, they better not put a full year in between those seasons. Arghh!
J jcocktostenMember
quote:
Originally posted by jburman82:
Good stuff. Thanks JC.


HBO has confirmed Episode 9 is named Battle of the Bastards

Episode 10 is named Winds of Winter - the name of the next book. Will the Wall be coming down? Will the Night King and the Walkers and wights get past the Wall some other way? We shall see

Episodes 9 and 10 also directed by the same guy who directed Hardhome last season
J jorgerunfastMember
How could anyone say that wasn't incredible television??

The scene where Rickon is running towards Jon - sure, we knew exactly how it would end - but tell me it wasn't gripping to the last moment?!

Once Jon was standing alone, and the cavalry was coming for him, the way he owned the moment just before his army arrived was hair-raising.

The battle was the best TV battle scene I've ever watched - and gave Saving Private Ryan or Braveheart a run for its money.

The way Bolton decided to "finish them off" with his army surrounding them was amazing.

That moment that Jon makes his way out of the dead bodies and locks eyes with Bolton.

I could go on.

I get that it was predictable, but the direction of the episode was as good as it gets IMO. Truly fantastic TV.

PS: You know the battle was incredible when the scene with Dany and her dragons is a footnote! We've been waiting, what, 5 years?? For those dragons to kick some ass and they did not disappoint.

Again, amazing TV.
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